Finding Faith?

[ana]

You know that saying, Faith can move mountains? What does it exactly mean? I used to think that by Faith moving mountains, one must have had a really strong belief that the mountain will move and thus as a result of this strong 'belief' the mountain moved. But now, seeing that Faith and belief are opposites, then one cannot have faith and belief at the same time. So what does this saying mean as a result of this???

I see Faith can move mountains as a metaphor of the nature of universe as a field of unlimited possibilities and of faith as the true and only state in wich we are able to accept all such possibilities, because only faith despoil us of our embedded belief system and leaves us naked and empty, ready to receive.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

If belief is closed and faith is open can you have Faith without belief?
can I have faith that life will give me the right experiences while at the same time believing life will not provide me right experiences? Is Faith not built on beliefs?

Can you be closed and unreceptive while at the same time open and receptive?
Can water flow, if a dam is in its way?

In the here and now you can just experience one of them, osit

I disagree. Example: I believe my partner is out shopping
(I dont actually know it, I am not out with her so she may be somewhere else, never the less I believe she is shopping. If someone asked where she was I would reply 'She is out shopping')
I have faith that she will be home by teatime.
Faith and belief Neither closed Nor mutually exclusive and I can hold both in mind & feelling simultaneously.

 

[ana]

I disagree. Example: I believe my partner is out shopping
(I dont actually know it, I am not out with her so she may be somewhere else, never the less I believe she is shopping. If someone asked where she was I would reply 'She is out shopping')
I have faith that she will be home by teatime.
Faith and belief Neither closed Nor mutually exclusive and I can hold both in mind & feelling simultaneously.

As i see it, this is not faith but a supposition, in faith you do not anticipate, you do not suppose, you just become empty ready to receive without expectations.

Maybe there is no need to force ourselves pretending to understand something for sure, just continuing learning, paying attention and remaining open to more experiences untill things become clearer each time, step by step, is a best approach.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

I disagree. Example: I believe my partner is out shopping
(I dont actually know it, I am not out with her so she may be somewhere else, never the less I believe she is shopping. If someone asked where she was I would reply 'She is out shopping')
I have faith that she will be home by teatime.
Faith and belief Neither closed Nor mutually exclusive and I can hold both in mind & feelling simultaneously.

As i see it, this is not faith but a supposition, in faith you do not anticipate, you do not suppose, you just become empty ready to receive without expectations.

Maybe there is no need to force ourselves pretending to understand something for sure, just continuing learning, paying attention and remaining open to more experiences untill things become clearer each time, step by step, is a best approach.

I think this is one of the great problems we face in communication. words seem to have many meanings. although an English speaker I despair at the English language with its hotch potch of many different linguistic roots.

Your 'supposition' suggestion in place of 'faith' is interesting - sup = under and position from ponere - to place or to put under, makes me wonder about the word : what is the idea put under?

Entymologicaly I did use faith in the right context = Faith derives from both belief and trust. FAITH: mid-13c., "duty of fulfilling one's trust," from O.Fr. feid, from L. fides "trust, belief," from root of fidere "to trust.

But this is now becoming quite circular and I am reminded of the phrase 'for exact understanding exact language is needed'
So how is faith and belief to be used? Faith only in religious sense and belief only in a negative sense.

Can people operate on a daily basis with no beliefs whatsover.

I ask myself - why do I reply to this thread. I think - 'Clarification is useful, someone says something that causes me to question, that is good, maybe I cause someone question, maybe thats good too.' Now that sentence could be analysed and some implicit beliefs could be extracted.
Ex, Clarification is useful., Exchange is useful, learning is a good thing to be involved in.

I would ask Ana, if you respond and do so because you have a wish to exchange perspectives, does the impetus come from an open belief or from a place of no belief or from a place of closed belief as I would like to better understand your understanding of belief.

 

[ana]

I think this is one of the great problems we face in communication. words seem to have many meanings. although an English speaker I despair at the English language with its hotch potch of many different linguistic roots.

Your 'supposition' suggestion in place of 'faith' is interesting - sup = under and position from ponere - to place or to put under, makes me wonder about the word : what is the idea put under?

Entymologicaly I did use faith in the right context = Faith derives from both belief and trust. FAITH: mid-13c., "duty of fulfilling one's trust," from O.Fr. feid, from L. fides "trust, belief," from root of fidere "to trust.

But this is now becoming quite circular and I am reminded of the phrase 'for exact understanding exact language is needed'
So how is faith and belief to be used? Faith only in religious sense and belief only in a negative sense.

Can people operate on a daily basis with no beliefs whatsover.

I ask myself - why do I reply to this thread. I think - 'Clarification is useful, someone says something that causes me to question, that is good, maybe I cause someone question, maybe thats good too.' Now that sentence could be analysed and some implicit beliefs could be extracted.
Ex, Clarification is useful., Exchange is useful, learning is a good thing to be involved in.

I would ask Ana, if you respond and do so because you have a wish to exchange perspectives, does the impetus come from an open belief or from a place of no belief or from a place of closed belief as I would like to better understand your understanding of belief.

As you say in order to proper communication take place between us, we need to use a common language.
In the Cassiopaea glossary you will find how in the context of the work are truth and belief seen and differenciated.

In QFS discourse, the word belief means a concept which is accepted as a given truth, without necessarily being critically evaluated. The concept often connotates emotional attachment of the believer to the belief.

Belief is sometimes used as the opposite of 'faith.' Belief here means that one has firmly decided that the world is a certain way and holds fast to this view even in the face of evidence to the contrary. In essence, one is attempting to force one's model on the world. 'Faith' in this context implies an open and receptive attitude to the universe. Faith implies trust but does not imply an inflexible judgement on how things must be. Belief is in a sense controlling and scared of being wrong, while faith is adventurous and flexible.

Even though the dictionary definitions of faith and belief are similar, the Cassiopaea material tends to make the above distinction between the two.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

I think this is one of the great problems we face in communication. words seem to have many meanings. although an English speaker I despair at the English language with its hotch potch of many different linguistic roots.

Your 'supposition' suggestion in place of 'faith' is interesting - sup = under and position from ponere - to place or to put under, makes me wonder about the word : what is the idea put under?

Entymologicaly I did use faith in the right context = Faith derives from both belief and trust. FAITH: mid-13c., "duty of fulfilling one's trust," from O.Fr. feid, from L. fides "trust, belief," from root of fidere "to trust.

But this is now becoming quite circular and I am reminded of the phrase 'for exact understanding exact language is needed'
So how is faith and belief to be used? Faith only in religious sense and belief only in a negative sense.

Can people operate on a daily basis with no beliefs whatsover.

I ask myself - why do I reply to this thread. I think - 'Clarification is useful, someone says something that causes me to question, that is good, maybe I cause someone question, maybe thats good too.' Now that sentence could be analysed and some implicit beliefs could be extracted.
Ex, Clarification is useful., Exchange is useful, learning is a good thing to be involved in.

I would ask Ana, if you respond and do so because you have a wish to exchange perspectives, does the impetus come from an open belief or from a place of no belief or from a place of closed belief as I would like to better understand your understanding of belief.

As you say in order to proper communication take place between us, we need to use a common language.
In the Cassiopaea glossary you will find how in the context of the work are truth and belief seen and differenciated.

In QFS discourse, the word belief means a concept which is accepted as a given truth, without necessarily being critically evaluated. The concept often connotates emotional attachment of the believer to the belief.

Belief is sometimes used as the opposite of 'faith.' Belief here means that one has firmly decided that the world is a certain way and holds fast to this view even in the face of evidence to the contrary. In essence, one is attempting to force one's model on the world. 'Faith' in this context implies an open and receptive attitude to the universe. Faith implies trust but does not imply an inflexible judgement on how things must be. Belief is in a sense controlling and scared of being wrong, while faith is adventurous and flexible.

Even though the dictionary definitions of faith and belief are similar, the Cassiopaea material tends to make the above distinction between the two.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[go2]

I have faith that she will be home by teatime.

Stevie, are you anthropomorphizing faith? What would faith be objectively? Isn't it the power to be, a gift from his Endlessness.
It seems more accurate that you hope she will be home by teatime.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

It seems more accurate that you hope she will be home by teatime

Go2, Hope is a totally different subjective experience altogether for me, I do not HOPE she will be home, I EXPECT it, I TRUST it to happen, I have FAITH that it will happen. There is no wishing or HOPING involved whatsoever. As I explained to Ana I am using FAITH as etmymologically derived from the latin FIDERE = To trust. Ana then explained that FAITH is used differently in the forum and I am grateful for her clarification.

 

[HowToBe]

I'm not sure I've got this, but I'd like to share my brainstorm so far: Faith allows the open flow of lessons. If life is essentially a conversation with the Creator, faith is an active, non-anticipatory participation in this process. "Giving all" to the learning process. There does appear to be an implicit belief in the existence of truth, and the possibility of knowing it. Am I misinterpreting?

Also, I think it is important to distinguish expectation/anticipation from the process of assigning probabilities based on patterns of experience. One can estimate the most likely outcome based on past experience and available knowledge, but whether one chooses to expect a particular outcome or to be open to all possibilities is a different (although relevant) matter.

 

[SoCurious]

Faith/Belief

I'm having trouble with the breathing and meditation. I read all the effects it has on everyone and I wonder why I seem to be completely neutral to any benefit.

I'd like to tell you one thing about my mother that may help to explain my quandary.

My mother had an amazing ability to cure cancer. When friends of hers were diagnosed with cancer she would invite them to come and spend some time with us, a month or two. During the day she'd quietly say the odd thing here and there to the visiting friend whilst walking in the garden (I never overheard a thing she said). By the time they left the cancer had left too.

Then my mother was diagnosed with cancer and not long before the end, (she held on two years) she told me she was able to get her friends to believe the cancer was gone but somehow she couldn't do the same for herself. She had a niggle of doubt.

I've tried a few things, hemi-sync, meditation, positive-thinking, and none of them made the slightest impression on me. There was always a seed of doubt (obviously not mustard) and I think this seed is what makes it impossible for me to fully "believe" or have "faith".

This seed or doubt block may have been put into my mind when at 7 my parents decided to divorce. At no time did I blame myself as we're led to believe is what kids do. I simply felt betrayed. At 10 I told my step-father I would no longer be going to church as it was "junk". Perhaps I felt that if I couldn't quite trust my parents I certainly couldn't put my faith in someone who died so long ago and who for all the professions of love would let the world be such a sad bad place. I know I certainly didn't like the ritual. It all had an artificiality to it.

Perhaps I'm somewhat impressionable but I've spent 100's of hours reading what Laura and Ark have written (and there's so much more reading still to do), and I cannot think of anything that makes as much sense as Laura and the C's. But the C's say faith is necessary.

A: The block is a lack of faith in the concept. Remember, when one has been indoctrinated by religion, culture and/or science, they are predisposed to view all things in the sense of the measureable physical reality exclusively. Humans need to be cured of their lack of faith in the reality of non-physical attack.

A: Correct manner involves honesty and understanding that one has complete faith and awareness of the activities pursued. In other words, when one performs an act which they proclaim to be having a desired result, and they do not have faith in their own actions as, in fact, producing the desired result, then the effort will collapse because of their lack of faith. Whereas when one has complete faith and multi-density understanding, their activities are indeed truth and useful as prescribed and this is the correct way to pursue them.

After a lifetime of trying to avoid blind belief as shown by religious nuts of all persuasions and instead searching for reasons and truth I think I'll always have this "block", this niggle of doubt.

I would be extremely grateful for any help or suggestions that would enable me to fully participate in the entire Cassiopaean experience through getting rid of this block. If there's anything I believe is important, it is this. But of course, now I'm really being STS :(

 

[salleles]

Re: Faith/Belief

Hi Richard,

You might want to read this thread, where differences between the concepts of belief and faith are discussed. FWIW.

 

[mkrnhr]

Re: Faith/Belief

Hello Richard,
Maybe you can also consider the part of the Wave where non-aniticipation is discussed. It may help to have an intuitive idea of the difference between faith and belief.

 

[ana]

Re: Faith/Belief

I would be extremely grateful for any help or suggestions that would enable me to fully participate in the entire Cassiopaean experience through getting rid of this block. If there's anything I believe is important, it is this. But of course, now I'm really being STS :(

Can you elaborate on how do you think this block is affecting you exactly?

 

[Nienna]

Re: Faith/Belief

Richard, EE is not about belief or faith. It is a breathing program. Yes it has the POTS, but we are not asking you to believe anything. What EE does is work with your vagus nerve, which helps in clearing emotional blockages, relieves stress, among many other things. But you do not have to believe, or have faith. Just keep an open mind while doing it.

It also affects everyone differently. Some people have very obvious things going on. Others don't feel, or see, anything obvious going on. That doesn't mean it isn't working, as the vagus nerves works whether you notice it or not. Under the surface. It releases repressed emotions in dreams, by bringing up memories you haven't thought of for a long time so you can look at them and, then, let them go. It, also, does for some people, bring up repressed emotions that they can see very well such as being angry, crying or even laughing.

It isn't, the same for everyone. I'd say you are trying too hard for a sign that it is working for you, when, in fact, it maybe working on you in a very obscure way. But expecting things to happen may, as well, be blocking you from noticing them.

Just relax, and enjoy yourself while doing EE. No anticipation. :)

 

[Voyageur]

Re: Faith/Belief

Richard, EE is not about belief or faith. It is a breathing program. Yes it has the POTS, but we are not asking you to believe anything. What EE does is work with your vagus nerve, which helps in clearing emotional blockages, relieves stress, among many other things. But you do not have to believe, or have faith. Just keep an open mind while doing it.

It also affects everyone differently. Some people have very obvious things going on. Others don't feel, or see, anything obvious going on. That doesn't mean it isn't working, as the vagus nerves works whether you notice it or not. Under the surface. It releases repressed emotions in dreams, by bringing up memories you haven't thought of for a long time so you can look at them and, then, let them go. It, also, does for some people, bring up repressed emotions that they can see very well such as being angry, crying or even laughing.

It isn't, the same for everyone. I'd say you are trying too hard for a sign that it is working for you, when, in fact, it maybe working on you in a very obscure way. But expecting things to happen may, as well, be blocking you from noticing them.

Just relax, and enjoy yourself while doing EE. No anticipation. :)

This above is a very good way to describe EE Richard. In many ways it becomes a conscious practice in life without anticipation as is said. In the EE thread, many people experience this very differently, yet the subtle qualities are working within, building foundations that are different, even imperceptible, but present nonetheless. :)