Fire and Ice: The Day After Tomorrow

[domi]

Very nice piece.

When reading about the arctic ice getting thicker in the middle while the outer areas are getting warmer, it made me think of sunspots and how those are areas of more intense magnetic field which forces the hot plasma away with cooling as a result.
I am just wondering if this is also a factor, that the earth's magnetic field is actually increasing in that area because of changes in the sun's magnetic field?

I will give this some more thought and I will try to find something in the transcripts that might point to this.

Dominique.

 

[Gimpy]

I read an article this week about oil tankers picking up increased methane gas emissions outside the ships. It was noticed by the rotton egg smell. I cannot find this article now, it was on Yahoo news in this weeks timeframe. The tankers are monitoring air quality for leaks, and picked it up on accident.

Can anyone help me find this article? I've googled and I cannot find it anywhere. It's like it vanished...


Gimpy

 

[Anders]

Great Article and some good finds, especially the thickening of the icecaps. Things are heating up on the BBM!

In regards to Gimpy's query, then you might have found it here on the forum when Donald Hunt posted the article from the waynemadsenreport.

In any case this is where you can find it and there is even a picture of a super tanker: http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

I read an article this week about oil tankers picking up increased methane gas emissions outside the ships. It was noticed by the rotton egg smell. I cannot find this article now, it was on Yahoo news in this weeks timeframe. The tankers are monitoring air quality for leaks, and picked it up on accident.

Can anyone help me find this article? I've googled and I cannot find it anywhere. It's like it vanished...




Gimpy

 

[stillwalking82]

In the spirit of this article, I rented The Day After Tomorrow last night. While watching, I'm sure like many other's, the correlation between the character playing the Vice President, Kenneth Welsh, and our current VP is startling. But what didn't make sense at the time of the release, but carries more weight in light of the recent congressional elections is the character playing the Secretary of State, Mimi Kuzyk, and our own Nancy Pelosi.

Thoughts?

VP
The Day After Tomorrow's Character:

Secretary of State:
The Day After Tomorrow's Character

 

[Rick]

I haven't finished reading the article. It's long and since I'm in the climate science field I want to make sure I understand all the science involved. The first thing I'd like to point out is that there really is no inconsistency between the thickening Greenland ice cap (in the north) and its retreat. The ice cap can both thicken in one area and horizonatally retreat in another. What matters is the total ice volume. Now, I don't know offhand what the total volume change is (I'm not a glacioligist) but I would imagine that the horizontal retreat at this stage is likely greater than the gain from its thickening, but I'll have to dig into it to be sure.
...
Okay, I've read further and came to this citation:
Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass Balance

Reference

Wingham, D.J., Shepherd, A., Muir, A. and Marshall, G.J. 2006. Mass balance of the Antarctic ice sheet. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A 364: 1627-1635.

I found the article...

'We show that 72% of the Antarctic ice sheet is gaining 2729Gtyr-1, a sink of ocean mass sufficient to lower global sea levels by 0.08mmyr-1. The IPCC third assessment (Church & Gregory 2001) partially offset an ongoing sea-level rise due to Antarctic retreat since the last glacial maximum (0.0-0.5mmyr-1) with a twentieth century fall due to increased snowfall (-0.2-0.0mmyr-1). But that assessment relied solely on models that neither captured ice streams nor the Peninsula warming, and the data show both have dominated at least the late twentieth century ice sheet. Even allowing a 30Gtyr-1 fluctuation in unsurveyed areas, they provide a range of -35-+115Gtyr-1. This range equates to a sea level contribution of -0.3-+0.1mmyr-1 and so Antarctica has provided, at most, a negligible component of observed sea-level rise. In consequence, the data places a further burden on accounting (Munk 2003) for the twentieth century rise of 1.5-2mmyr-1. What is clear, from the data, is that fluctuations in some coastal regions reflect long-term losses of ice mass, whereas fluctuations elsewhere appear to be short-term changes in snowfall. While the latter are bound to fluctuate about the long-term MAR, the former are not, and so the contribution of retreating glaciers will govern the twenty-first century mass balance of the Antarctic ice sheet.'

http://www.journals.royalsoc.ac.uk/media/pf9dmxrgqk4kxk7g9j4k/contributions/3/8/3/1/38315t2244r5w3m4_html/fulltext.html

35 +/-115 Gt yr-1?! I'm not sure how this translates into a net negative -0.3+/.1 mm/yr. But the uncertainties are great. - The conclusion of co2science is slightly exagerated and it's hardly what the authors conclude: "What is clear, from the data, is that fluctuations in some coastal regions reflect long-term losses of ice mass, whereas fluctuations elsewhere appear to be short-term changes in snowfall. "

There's also this:

A Possible Change in Mass Balance of Greenland and Antarctic Ice Sheets in the Coming Century
'A high-resolution GCM is found to simulate precipitation and surface energy balance of high latitudes with high accuracy. This opens new possibilities to investigate the future mass balance of polar glaciers and its effect on sea level. The surface mass balance of the Greenland and the Antarctic ice sheets is simulated using the ECHAM3 GCM with TI06 horizontal resolution. With this model, two 5-year integrations for the present and doubled carbon dioxide conditions based on the boundary conditions provided by the ECHAM1/T21 transient experiment have been conducted. A comparison of the two experiments over Greenland and Antarctica shows to what extent the effect of climate change on the mass balance on the two largest glaciers of the world can differ. On Greenland one sees a slight decrease in accumulation and a substantial increase in melt, while on Antarctica a large increase in accumulation without melt is projected. Translating the mass balances into terms of sea-level equivalent. the Greenland discharge causes a sea level rise of 1. 1 mm yr−1, while the accumulation on Antarctica tends to lower it by 0.9 mm yr−1. The change in the combined mass balance of the two continents is almost zero. The sea level change of the next century can be affected more effectively by the thermal expansion of seawater and the mass balance of smaller glaciers outside of Greenland and Antarctica.'
http://ams.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1175%2F1520-0442(1996)009%3C2124:APCIMB%3E2.0.CO%3B2

Okay, it's a model. They still have their uses.


-Rick

 

[MetaDjinn]

Great Article and some good finds, especially the thickening of the icecaps. Things are heating up on the BBM!

In regards to Gimpy's query, then you might have found it here on the forum when Donald Hunt posted the article from the waynemadsenreport.

In any case this is where you can find it and there is even a picture of a super tanker: http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

I read an article this week about oil tankers picking up increased methane gas emissions outside the ships. It was noticed by the rotton egg smell. I cannot find this article now, it was on Yahoo news in this weeks timeframe. The tankers are monitoring air quality for leaks, and picked it up on accident.

Can anyone help me find this article? I've googled and I cannot find it anywhere. It's like it vanished...




Gimpy

I related this story to my spouse and she inquired where I heard it. I informed here that it was linked from here (SOTT) and she said "Oh, those people wrote it". I corrected her by stating that it was not written by SOTT by linked from the site. She said "Oh, then it's not real news then: it's internet news; not on TV". I tried to manage my emotions but this through me into a hissy. So, I contacted Wayne Madsen and asked for his sources. He replied personally and stated that his sources "are working for the Seafarers Union that represents the merchant mariners". I have no burning desire to verify further, but if wish to research this, there is a start.

 

[anart]

I tried to manage my emotions but this through me into a hissy.

That's a tough one, especially when it is your spouse - but, over and over again we run into people who do NOT want to know - who do NOT want to See - who want to sleepwalk until they die.

So, even when they are a member of your family, free will comes into play - if they can't See it or don't want to, then that is their choice - ultimately all we can do is work on our own understanding of this reality and offer help and information to others who ask - it can be frustrating at first though, to reach that place where watching the sustained ignorance of those around us no longer hurts (as much)- it is their life and their choice.

I feel for you though - I went through something similar, as most here have, and eventually realized that discussing these things with those who do not want to hear it was not only useless and rather painful, but an enormous drain of energy. For me, at least, I found it was better to conserve that energy whenever possible so it was available for more constructive things. Oh, and it has been my experience that no amount of evidence will convince those who do not want to know - fwiw.

 

[MetaDjinn]

I tried to manage my emotions but this through me into a hissy.

That's a tough one, especially when it is your spouse - but, over and over again we run into people who do NOT want to know - who do NOT want to See - who want to sleepwalk until they die.

So, even when they are a member of your family, free will comes into play - if they can't See it or don't want to, then that is their choice - ultimately all we can do is work on our own understanding of this reality and offer help and information to others who ask - it can be frustrating at first though, to reach that place where watching the sustained ignorance of those around us no longer hurts (as much)- it is their life and their choice.

I feel for you though - I went through something similar, as most here have, and eventually realized that discussing these things with those who do not want to hear it was not only useless and rather painful, but an enormous drain of energy. For me, at least, I found it was better to conserve that energy whenever possible so it was available for more constructive things. Oh, and it has been my experience that no amount of evidence will convince those who do not want to know - fwiw.

Thank you Anart. I understand what you are saying but often forget it in practice. Here is the little extra part and the reason for my reaction: she nods in agreement to everything we talk about in regard to these topics and has done so over the past 2 years. It was the complete 180 that threw me.

I went through something similiar awhile back. A "friend" starting showing a strange interest in my families practice of "unschooling". I found it odd because he was a teacher and had no children of his own. Anyway, he kept raving about how "cool" it was and kept requesting articles and books and we would discuss them ad nauseum and he "agreed" to every bit of it. We talked about how I don't force my kids to do anything that they aren't comfortable with and he thought that was great. One day he came over my house. He approached my oldest and said "I heard so much about you and wanted to meet you so badly and... blah.. blah.. blah". What he really wanted was a performance so he could evaluate and judge. My son picked up on this instantly (not the first time he'd seen it) and retreated into his usual defense of a blank stare. My "friend" called me that night suggesting that I take my boy to a doctor because he felt that my son was most likely austistic. Again, the complete 180 - gets me everytime. I haven't spoken to that individual since. I have no problem keeping a low profile, not forcing anything on anyone, being quiet. For the most part, I just want to be left alone and keep out from under the microscope. However, sometimes, some people lure me in and say "I understand, trust me" and I do and I get burned. This is one of my programs or what I attract into my life which then forces me to spawn another program - "run away". It just really sucks when it is my wife. Thanks for the input.

 

[Gimpy]

Great Article and some good finds, especially the thickening of the icecaps. Things are heating up on the BBM!

In regards to Gimpy's query, then you might have found it here on the forum when Donald Hunt posted the article from the waynemadsenreport.

In any case this is where you can find it and there is even a picture of a super tanker: http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

I read an article this week about oil tankers picking up increased methane gas emissions outside the ships. It was noticed by the rotton egg smell. I cannot find this article now, it was on Yahoo news in this weeks timeframe. The tankers are monitoring air quality for leaks, and picked it up on accident.

Can anyone help me find this article? I've googled and I cannot find it anywhere. It's like it vanished...




Gimpy

I related this story to my spouse and she inquired where I heard it. I informed here that it was linked from here (SOTT) and she said "Oh, those people wrote it". I corrected her by stating that it was not written by SOTT by linked from the site. She said "Oh, then it's not real news then: it's internet news; not on TV". I tried to manage my emotions but this through me into a hissy. So, I contacted Wayne Madsen and asked for his sources. He replied personally and stated that his sources "are working for the Seafarers Union that represents the merchant mariners". I have no burning desire to verify further, but if wish to research this, there is a start.

Thanks! It was on Yahoo, because I saw it at work, and I'm only allowed to read the news there. It is the same info from Wayne's site, just very brief and cleaned up. I've dug and dug, and it is really gone. :( I was hoping it would have been picked up here, and yay! It was. If hubby wants more proof than I gave him, he can go look now.

My spouse is equally skeptical of this site and any kind of "paranormal" source, or 'alternative' source. We've been together a long time, and he is clear to me when he says "I like it here, and I don't want to leave...if I follow you into all this spiritual stuff...I can't be here anymore. Its not a risk I wanna take." He seems to think it would mean life would be over, in reality it would be the death of his ignorance.

Well...I've never "been here" in regards to willed ignorance. I want the truth, no matter how ugly. Hubby wants the truth, but only so far. The more I learn here, the more phenomena we are seeing. I'd just finished reading 'Adventures' and "the Wave" online when Hubby, his brother, and I witnessed a massing of shiny round UFO's in broad daylight. Hubby and his brother kept saying "those are balloons", to which I mentioned the size, shape, and movement was not balloon-like. They tried to shrug it off, but it bothered them. I kept staring til the UFOs were gone, they had to drag me inside the restaurant.

Over Christmas at my father in laws, we saw a show on UFO's, and there they were again, at a public ceremony in Mexico. Hubby's jaw hit the floor, but I was looking for the same "Z" shaped flight pattern we'd seen. (In case it was just a projection) But the pattern was different. The objects did move in the same manner as those we'd seen.

Hubby freaked out, but in a matter of an hour, it was shoved under the rug of his mind.

I can't forget it.

I can live with my hubby, blind spots an all, because I do love him. I used to think he put up with all the weirdness that happens around our place, but now I am not sure he sees it. :) Its the normal response, so it doesn't upset me. I've put up with that forever.

Thanks to everybody who pointed me toward wayne's site, its cool.


Gimpy

 

[Nienna]

I have no problem keeping a low profile, not forcing anything on anyone, being quiet. For the most part, I just want to be left alone and keep out from under the microscope. However, sometimes, some people lure me in and say "I understand, trust me" and I do and I get burned. This is one of my programs or what I attract into my life which then forces me to spawn another program - "run away". It just really sucks when it is my wife.

I can completely relate to what you are going through. However, you must remember that the more one awakens, the more the General Law is going to go into effect and throw things in your path to try to put you back to sleep. This can be by you meeting new acquaintances who seem to be on the same thoughtwave as you, to those you love doing a complete turnaround to keep you from furthering your knowledge and putting you back to sleep.

And, yes, this can be frustrating and infuriating; but this also gives us the means to learn how to keep these negative feelings "below the neck" and to transform them into positive feelings. If you haven't read this thread yet, you might find it to be very helpful. It was done by Art about depression as a stepping stone, but any negative emotion can be used.

Another good thread to read, if you haven't already, is the one by Laura. It is excellent for learning to "use" these negative emotions.

Good luck and hang in there.

 

[MetaDjinn]

I have no problem keeping a low profile, not forcing anything on anyone, being quiet. For the most part, I just want to be left alone and keep out from under the microscope. However, sometimes, some people lure me in and say "I understand, trust me" and I do and I get burned. This is one of my programs or what I attract into my life which then forces me to spawn another program - "run away". It just really sucks when it is my wife.

I can completely relate to what you are going through. However, you must remember that the more one awakens, the more the General Law is going to go into effect and throw things in your path to try to put you back to sleep. This can be by you meeting new acquaintances who seem to be on the same thoughtwave as you, to those you love doing a complete turnaround to keep you from furthering your knowledge and putting you back to sleep.

And, yes, this can be frustrating and infuriating; but this also gives us the means to learn how to keep these negative feelings "below the neck" and to transform them into positive feelings. If you haven't read this thread yet, you might find it to be very helpful. It was done by Art about depression as a stepping stone, but any negative emotion can be used.

Another good thread to read, if you haven't already, is the one by Laura. It is excellent for learning to "use" these negative emotions.

Good luck and hang in there.

I have just read the first link and will read the second after resting my eyes some. Beyond that, the reading of the first link (and the original essay) has overwhelmed me with quietness - do you know what I mean? So, for now, I will say no more. Thank you so very much for this.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

If someone has the skills, it might be worthwhile to make a flash video (like the pentagon one) about this. Would be nice to have like a simulated visual example of what's going on in terms of global warming, evaporation, moving to the arctic region and condensing as snow and rain in other places, build-up of glaciers and expansion of fresh water rivers, and the heavier glaciers pushing edges of the ice mass out causing more melting while rivers flood into oceans, both systems release a LOT more fresh water, and the disruption of the gulf stream all this results in.

But in the video, just like in the pentagon one, back everything up with scientific data and where people can go to look for more (a link to the SOTT editorial) to show that nothing is being "made up".

As a follow-up, maybe add in the herding of the population to a gestapo-like order of control, to sort of put into context the current global wars and curbing of freedoms and security measures. The governments are expecting it, thus, our political situation. I think this might be a good way to get this info out.

 

[Rick]

Of worthy note:

Sea change: why global warming could leave Britain feeling the cold
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1932621,00.html

James Randerson, science correspondent
Friday October 27, 2006
The Guardian

Scientists have uncovered more evidence for a dramatic weakening in the vast ocean current that gives Britain its relatively balmy climate by dragging warm water northwards from the tropics. The slowdown, which climate modellers have predicted will follow global warming, has been confirmed by the most detailed study yet of ocean flow in the Atlantic.

Most alarmingly, the data reveal that a part of the current, which is usually 60 times more powerful than the Amazon river, came to a temporary halt during November 2004.

The nightmare scenario of a shutdown in the meridional ocean current which drives the Gulf stream was dramatically portrayed in The Day After Tomorrow. The climate disaster film had Europe and North America plunged into a new ice age practically overnight.

Although no scientist thinks the switch-off could happen that quickly, they do agree that even a weakening of the current over a few decades would have profound consequences.

Warm water brought to Europe's shores raises the temperature by as much as 10C in some places and without it the continent would be much colder and drier.

Researchers are not sure yet what to make of the 10-day hiatus. "We'd never seen anything like that before and we don't understand it. We didn't know it could happen," said Harry Bryden, at the National Oceanography Centre, in Southampton, who presented the findings to a conference in Birmingham on rapid climate change.

Is it the first sign that the current is stuttering to a halt? "I want to know more before I say that," Professor Bryden said.

Lloyd Keigwin, a scientist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, in Massachusetts, in the US, described the temporary shutdown as "the most abrupt change in the whole [climate] record".

He added: "It only lasted 10 days. But suppose it lasted 30 or 60 days, when do you ring up the prime minister and say let's start stockpiling fuel? How can we rule out a longer one next year?"

Prof Bryden's group stunned climate researchers last year with data suggesting that the flow rate of the Atlantic circulation had dropped by about 6m tonnes of water a second from 1957 to 1998. If the current remained that weak, he predicted, it would lead to a 1C drop in the UK in the next decade. A complete shutdown would lead to a 4C-6C cooling over 20 years.

The study prompted the UK's Natural Environment Research Council to set up an array of 16 submerged stations spread across the Atlantic, from Florida to north Africa, to measure flow rate and other variables at different depths. Data from these stations confirmed the slowdown in 1998 was not a "freak observation"- although the current does seem to have picked up slightly since.

 

[Rich]

I related this story to my spouse and she inquired where I heard it. I informed here that it was linked from here (SOTT) and she said "Oh, those people wrote it". I corrected her by stating that it was not written by SOTT by linked from the site. She said "Oh, then it's not real news then: it's internet news; not on TV". I tried to manage my emotions but this through me into a hissy.

and

can live with my hubby, blind spots an all, because I do love him. I used to think he put up with all the weirdness that happens around our place, but now I am not sure he sees it. smile Its the normal response, so it doesn't upset me. I've put up with that forever.

I empathise with these comments. My wife thought this article was a bit too long and stopped (but this is the first time she has read any :). Despite much protest over the past months, she is slowly 'accepting' my interest and devotion to SOTT isn't going to go away. This made me think (semi-seriously) that there should be a support group (or a flash movie :))for partners of readers of SOTT to save much of the distress and misunderstanding!

 

[Pierre]

Apparently very pragmatic and down to earh entities like insurance companies start also to anticipate serious weather changes

It is not enough any more to increase the tariffs. Fearing over all the risks of new cyclones of the width of Katrina, the principal American insurance companies refuse from now on to sell contracts for the houses located along the Atlantic coast of the United States. State Farm, the most important insurer of dwellings, decided not to more sign the least insurance policy of the coasts of Delaware until those of Caroline-of-North. Allstate, number 2 of the sector, prevented, last month, which it was going to withdraw from certain coastal zones of Maryland where it considers the risk “too high� . After one season record in 2005, the year of Katrina, and even if the period of 2006, if dreaded, were calmer on the matter, the insurers count on a number of cyclones higher than the average in the next years. They also estimate that zones like New York, however in North, are not with the shelter. Thus Allstate decided not to more ensure the new residents of the five districts of the first American city located almost at the sea level, where several million people live, just as Long Island, where in particular the villas of the New-Yorkais rich person are. The large insurance companies are however far from encountering financial difficulties. Even in 2005, the sector released a benefit of 43 billion dollars. The results of 2006 should reach records. Thus, Allstate had a result of 1,16 billion dollar at the third quarter. If the changes do not call into question the contracts in progress, they cause to return the search for an increasingly difficult and expensive insurance policy for the new owners. With counter-current of the great names of the sector, the Chubb insurer, specialized in the luxurious villas, announced at the end of December that it was going to propose with its crested customers insurances flood with an annual tariff from 5.000 to 7.000 dollars, for a cover reached a maximum to 2 million dollars. The most affected owners are thus not those which are ready to pay more but reaching them the less fortunate property and private individuals.

Source : http:(2/3w).liberation.fr/actualite/economie/227183.FR.php