FOTCM Kit of Parts for existing and planned communites

LjRoxArk

Jedi
Hi all,

I started this thread after searching for a thread that addresses what existing and future FOTCM COMMUNITiES are desired be in terms of actual physical space and design of structures.

The Chateau, from what I have gleaned, is a large structure that affords individual privacy and contemplative space. The existing structure on the Carolina property is small comparatively, yet it is on some acreage that could easily be used to accommodate many more peeps.

In the US, zoning restricts site built construction; same is true in spades for the UK, and Spain. Right now, there is a window of opportunity to place small structures on land that beat the zoning regulations, and it involves what Architects refer to as "Kit of Parts" building methods. I, and other professionals in this domain, see that window closing soon. This method is much cheaper and it avoids other forms of Govt interference,as well.

Some discussion is ongoing in other threads about SHIPPING CONTAINERS, which are a fantastic example of a "base material" used in a potential "Kit". My suggestion would be to create minihouses using these, but instead of building them on site, they are modified and finished out in a central location. When finished , shipped to site and installed. Much like the oft 'dissed "manufactured housing" aka, Trailers....lol. We won't be using formaldehyde in our "Kit" ..lol.

So, a main structure , usually existing at purchase, could be used as common area for working, eating and meeting, etc. The minihouses, 100 to 300 square feet total , could be just that; a private space where you spend time alone, sleeping , study, meditation, etc. They can even be networked for utility services, and be partially, or all, subterranean for "weather" considerations...

Shipping Containers aren't the only option. Developing a "design of our own", that we can produce in Kit Form for shipment to a site, is much more economical than site building; on any day, in any way ,for multiple structures.

I'm VERY interested in this. So much so that I've been toying with this idea for months, thinking of buying some land and just doing it for myself and others as a test. If done in US, a Permanent Conservation Easement will also be part of the "plan". The latter keeps their mitts off of what is done with the land, as of right now, permanently....lafn

Let me know what the thinking is , or has been on this, please ?I want to, and can, help out on this subject as I am experienced by decades,formally educated in it ,and very knowledgeable about buying, designing, building on land; As well as ways to eliminate interference from Govts in this process.

I sense that the tide has taken a decided turn , with recent suspension of Free Speech in France. Is it time to get a DESIGN PLAN together for the physical space that will accommodate future FOTCM members in communities??

Looking forward to hearing from all interested.

ljroxark :cool2:
 

A Jay

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Well, we can't really plan anything if there's no community to occupy the spaces designed. Keeping these ideas in mind for the future, I think it would be better if our focus at the moment is more on forming cohesive groups that can develop their own community first and then letting the group decide what works best for them in terms of accommodations and location.

Although, I, personally, really like the idea of living in a hobbit hole, since you bring up living in less traditional spaces. ;D
 

Dylan

Jedi
That's funny you mention a hobbit hole, as I was driving back from the job site today I thought of the very same thing! It would be an excellent structure, built right into the side of a hill. Imagine the energy savings, and I live in fire country, in a hobbit hole a fire could about burn right over you with no problems!
 

LQB

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
monotonic said:
Wouldn't smoke make the air unbreatheable? And why would the house just turn into an oven?

Not if you control the air intake/exhaust. And if truly underground, you won't feel any heat.
 

LjRoxArk

Jedi
Thank you for replying, friends.

According to a Laura, in post a few days ago , FOTCM , is focusing on forming communities:

From Laura
Re: Cassiopaean Sessions not visible any more
« Reply #307 on: January 19, 2015, 08:11:37 PM »

I think that, in the face of all these global difficulties, we should concentrate on the future. Clearly, the present situation cannot last, and the Cs have said it WILL not last. Indeed, there is turmoil, there will be more turmoil, and we've been told that it will be "ecstasy" dealing with it. (I can't wait! - sarcasm).

One of the main projects of FOTCM is helping communities to form. I suspect that when things get really dire (as if they weren't dire enough already, but it can, and will, get worse I suspect), there will be plenty of people looking for answers and guidance. So those who are set up to help will be ahead of the game.


So, now is the time to start thinking about how and in what kind of space members will live eat, work, play; in other words "a design plan", or "development guidelines".

The economic reason that the minihouse concept is favorable, is time sensitive : Govts will be shutting this window down soon, making it less affordable and more restricted in the future, maybe even illegal all together.
There are all kinds of restrictions in place now ; permission must be granted from various agencies for almost all construction, except this modified form. Know that a zoning department can prohibit whatever they want, if they really want to. It is best to avoid them in the first place.

Hobbit houses are interesting , an ancient vernacular; a "mud hut"!. .. :D ..Lots of advantages to them. Articulate aesthetics may not be their strong point, but thermal massing and structural strength is. Forget building one without getting every inch of it combed through, and probably altered, by a zoning dept. or other agency The negatives , created by Govt, make this form more expensive , if they will even allow it. Many municipalities and counties do not, and more of them are in the process of reviewing codes to restrict them. Time sensitivity....Of course, in a 3rd world country, this is a non issue, but land ownership is usually restricted; a whole 'nother subject... :)

Thanks for your thoughts and for replying. :cool2:
 

Seaniebawn

Jedi Master
LjRoxArk said:
Hi all,

I started this thread after searching for a thread that addresses what existing and future FOTCM COMMUNITiES are desired be in terms of actual physical space and design of structures.

The Chateau, from what I have gleaned, is a large structure that affords individual privacy and contemplative space. The existing structure on the Carolina property is small comparatively, yet it is on some acreage that could easily be used to accommodate many more peeps.

In the US, zoning restricts site built construction; same is true in spades for the UK, and Spain. Right now, there is a window of opportunity to place small structures on land that beat the zoning regulations, and it involves what Architects refer to as "Kit of Parts" building methods. I, and other professionals in this domain, see that window closing soon. This method is much cheaper and it avoids other forms of Govt interference,as well.

Some discussion is ongoing in other threads about SHIPPING CONTAINERS, which are a fantastic example of a "base material" used in a potential "Kit". My suggestion would be to create minihouses using these, but instead of building them on site, they are modified and finished out in a central location. When finished , shipped to site and installed. Much like the oft 'dissed "manufactured housing" aka, Trailers....lol. We won't be using formaldehyde in our "Kit" ..lol.

So, a main structure , usually existing at purchase, could be used as common area for working, eating and meeting, etc. The minihouses, 100 to 300 square feet total , could be just that; a private space where you spend time alone, sleeping , study, meditation, etc. They can even be networked for utility services, and be partially, or all, subterranean for "weather" considerations...

Shipping Containers aren't the only option. Developing a "design of our own", that we can produce in Kit Form for shipment to a site, is much more economical than site building; on any day, in any way ,for multiple structures.

I'm VERY interested in this. So much so that I've been toying with this idea for months, thinking of buying some land and just doing it for myself and others as a test. If done in US, a Permanent Conservation Easement will also be part of the "plan". The latter keeps their mitts off of what is done with the land, as of right now, permanently....lafn

Let me know what the thinking is , or has been on this, please ?I want to, and can, help out on this subject as I am experienced by decades,formally educated in it ,and very knowledgeable about buying, designing, building on land; As well as ways to eliminate interference from Govts in this process.

I sense that the tide has taken a decided turn , with recent suspension of Free Speech in France. Is it time to get a DESIGN PLAN together for the physical space that will accommodate future FOTCM members in communities??

Looking forward to hearing from all interested.

ljroxark :cool2:

Have you ever looked into Cobb building straw/sand and mud, it's cheap and durable and fairly easy to work with, as well as being well insulated, and has a high thermal mass, as long as there is a decent foundation and and a good roof they can last for hundred's of years, a couple of close friend's and I are saving at the moment to buy some land here in Ireland, with a view to doing what you describe above, and this is one of the building choices we're looking at since we have experiencing building this type of dwelling. some links below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gpNT2pGE60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WbUUSq6jc4

We have also looked into the shipping container angle as well, but we'll probably get a cheap mobile home for the start until we can work the land a bit and setup the infrastructure.
 

A Jay

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
LjRoxArk said:
Thank you for replying, friends.

According to a Laura, in post a few days ago , FOTCM , is focusing on forming communities:

From Laura
Re: Cassiopaean Sessions not visible any more
« Reply #307 on: January 19, 2015, 08:11:37 PM »

I think that, in the face of all these global difficulties, we should concentrate on the future. Clearly, the present situation cannot last, and the Cs have said it WILL not last. Indeed, there is turmoil, there will be more turmoil, and we've been told that it will be "ecstasy" dealing with it. (I can't wait! - sarcasm).

One of the main projects of FOTCM is helping communities to form. I suspect that when things get really dire (as if they weren't dire enough already, but it can, and will, get worse I suspect), there will be plenty of people looking for answers and guidance. So those who are set up to help will be ahead of the game.


So, now is the time to start thinking about how and in what kind of space members will live eat, work, play; in other words "a design plan", or "development guidelines".

It would be anticipatory to start planning living arrangements and building designs now, as if we already know the variables that will be involved such as location, number of community members, their AIM, funds available, etc. So I think now is the time to be participating heavily on the forum by sharing experiences, joining FOTCM, helping with projects that disseminate truth, and building those connections with other FOTCM members that may eventually lead to communities.

We have to get to the point where groups are formed and looking for a place to live together first before any definitive plans like you're suggesting can be made, because ultimately it's the group living together that decides what's best for them. So no sense in making plans until a group is ready and asking for help in this area, OSIT.
 

LjRoxArk

Jedi
For Seaniebawn :

Yes, I have built structures with "Cobb", known in the US , Mexico and South America as "Adobe"...!! The advantages you describe well; thermal massing and structural integrity. The examples in the links you provided show how versatile Mud mixed with Straw can be.

One can make bricks out of it, sun or kiln dried. In that case, the bricks bear the vertical load of the roof,. Another example is , using some version of post and beam framing, layering the wet raw material, like a thick plaster, over the "bones" of the frame. That is usually the method done in Europe, where it is called 'Cobb"

Another version of Cobb/Adobe is "Rammed Earth"; was done a lot in the 90's in the southwestern US. This is a form based construction, just like concrete; forms add cost and they can be complex to construct for DIY. If done with a high level of craft, the finished aesthetic is oh so elegant, however ! Google it !

Yet another is "Straw Bale" construction, where the post and beam frame exists as bones, the straw bales are flesh in between the bones, and the Cobb/Adobe is the skin, usually about 4 to 6" thick,that seal it all, and give the aesthetic. Talk about thermal massing !!. Much quicker to build than using Cobb/Adobe alone, as above.

There are a number of variations on this deliciously sensual material !


BTW Mobiles are fantastic for temporary construction housing/site office; so are RV's and motorhomes.

Have you identified the area that you would like to buy? How many acres/hectares are you considering for how many peeps and structures ? Have you researched the zoning and building codes in your desired area to ensure your plans are legally viable ? It is so critical that you know this information before you buy; try to avoid dealing with these agencies if at all possible, through your own informed buy/design/build process.

And ....Thank You for reminding me of Ireland .. what a gorgeous country ! :cool:
 

Seaniebawn

Jedi Master
LjRoxArk said:
For Seaniebawn :

Yes, I have built structures with "Cobb", known in the US , Mexico and South America as "Adobe"...!! The advantages you describe well; thermal massing and structural integrity. The examples in the links you provided show how versatile Mud mixed with Straw can be.

One can make bricks out of it, sun or kiln dried. In that case, the bricks bear the vertical load of the roof,. Another example is , using some version of post and beam framing, layering the wet raw material, like a thick plaster, over the "bones" of the frame. That is usually the method done in Europe, where it is called 'Cobb"

Another version of Cobb/Adobe is "Rammed Earth"; was done a lot in the 90's in the southwestern US. This is a form based construction, just like concrete; forms add cost and they can be complex to construct for DIY. If done with a high level of craft, the finished aesthetic is oh so elegant, however ! Google it !

Yet another is "Straw Bale" construction, where the post and beam frame exists as bones, the straw bales are flesh in between the bones, and the Cobb/Adobe is the skin, usually about 4 to 6" thick,that seal it all, and give the aesthetic. Talk about thermal massing !!. Much quicker to build than using Cobb/Adobe alone, as above.

There are a number of variations on this deliciously sensual material !


BTW Mobiles are fantastic for temporary construction housing/site office; so are RV's and motorhomes.

Have you identified the area that you would like to buy? How many acres/hectares are you considering for how many peeps and structures ? Have you researched the zoning and building codes in your desired area to ensure your plans are legally viable ? It is so critical that you know this information before you buy; try to avoid dealing with these agencies if at all possible, through your own informed buy/design/build process.

And ....Thank You for reminding me of Ireland .. what a gorgeous country ! :cool:

Well at the moment there's is only four of us, my sister and her boyfriend, Me and my good friend neal, it's a bit of a slow process since there is only four of us, and it's hard finding like minded people but I should consider myself lucky I have three true friends that I love.

land prices can vary wildly in Ireland, from less then 10 grand an acre to over a hundred depending on where you want to go, although I was talking to a friend of neal's last week, his brother bought an acre of land with a cottage/ needs a lot of work, in the middle of a Forrest clearing in Sligo west of Ireland it has a stream running through it so potential for power generation this only cost him 7K euro, we are looking to have close to 70K between us and we'd like to buy as much land as we can but 5 acres would be a start, enough to grow food and raise a few animal's

We have also looked at the rammed earth and straw bale houses and like you said a lot quicker to build with, I love the finish with the cobb houses though, regarding the legality I know that if you keep horses on land for grazing or live stock under Irish law you can build a home, and if there is already a previous building on the site you don't need planning permission either, example neal's friend above and i think the cobb building come's under different law's as well although at the moment we're just concentrating on getting the money together and working though small projects at home, the place I live has an acre of land on site, and my brother and I are just putting the finishing touches on a chicken coup we built, from scrap wood and pallets, we are also looking to get some pig's/rabbits and put down the raised bed's, although i'm looking at building geodesic domes for greenhouse;s so we're moving along slowly but surely

below is a link to a geodesic dome calculator if your handy with wood.

http://acidome.ru/lab/calc/#7/12_Cone_3V_R4.2_beams_100x100
 

happyliza

The Living Force
LjRoxArk my idea for north cyprus is to use all the natural methods, they already use sun-baked mud bricks here. I intend to have each building in a different form of natural materials as well as using the latest off grid solar/heating equipment - hopefully obtaining the agency here for it as well (for installations and servicing). The reason being is to make the project also a show-case so that, not only are we living lightly on the land but also living examples of such structures and methods. This way we also have the chance of marketing and constructing these methods elsewhere on the island thus giving an extra income for the community too.

Rainwater harvesting and storage,(mountain water pours down the fire-breaks so is easily captured), building swales and using grey water, as well as building a natural pond - in a natural land dip, is also part of the project.

I am also contemplating whether we would not be better of constructing larger buildings for sharing, together with communal large multi - purpose buildings such as meeting hall/refectory/EE/Library/School building etc. and a food/animal processing/preserving/ and craft work-shops etc - if you get my drift, as we intend to have a proper mixed farm run on permaculture/bio-dynamic lines. This concept of larger, self contained houses, versus individual - or smaller - shared houses allows for more people but also maximizes the opportunity for those living in the different houses to all do food catering/meetings/EE/dining all together as one community (though each house would also have its own kitchen too). Same for the laundry processing.

We have 10-12 acres at the moment, but will rent- (and can possibly buy) all the land around us for the farming and further temporary structures. Luckily we can rent (forestry land) for 25 - 50 years for as little as £50 per acre per year! We also have to drill for our own wells

The time consuming thing here is the planning, permissions etc.
Should we also wish to do niche agro tourism in wooden chalets/yurts/tepes etc on leased land with compost toilets etc then this too is possible for which we would also be eligible for local and EU grants. This is also a growing market of independent people who would like to try our lifestyle. Plus there are plenty of outdoor activities we can easily organize for them here.

The above ideas allows the community to be self sufficient but also realizes the important factor of creating our own running costs incomes - (yet still possibly operating as a non profit). Such tourists can experience first hand our life/EE/seminars/Keto diet and hopefully may choose to continue our methods/lifestyle choice. Yet at the same time all income is kept within the confines of our community.

We could also hopefully (with legal permission), also grow our own tobacco and some medicinal plants.

Another attractive idea at some stage is that here there are many ex working donkeys on the island that have been abandoned - though are mainly kept within a conservation area. It would be great to keep a few for use, tourist treks along the mountain ridges to the old castles, nearby monastries, forest picnic area/herbarium, and the sheep/goat paths we have from our site to the natural deserted beaches. Riding for the disabled is another need here.

Through 3 consecutive phases, that can grow organically, this project can become quite large, to accommodate many people, plus be totally viable financially. We already have a project house in the nearby village, that is currently rented, but can accommodate 8 people, but more if we had bunk beds.

Just including my 2 cents as the project has been on my mind a lot recently - naturally. Comments and ideas very welcome!!! :)
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
A Jay said:
It would be anticipatory to start planning living arrangements and building designs now, as if we already know the variables that will be involved such as location, number of community members, their AIM, funds available, etc. So I think now is the time to be participating heavily on the forum by sharing experiences, joining FOTCM, helping with projects that disseminate truth, and building those connections with other FOTCM members that may eventually lead to communities.

We have to get to the point where groups are formed and looking for a place to live together first before any definitive plans like you're suggesting can be made, because ultimately it's the group living together that decides what's best for them. So no sense in making plans until a group is ready and asking for help in this area, OSIT.

Exactly. No point in trying to re-invent the wheel. If FOTCM is expected to support a community, it needs to be undertaken within the FOTCM environment.
 

David

Jedi Master
Thinking in regard to Seaniebawn post, and others who might be in similar situation...

I Just want to point out that although people can be co-linear at the beginning of an endeavour, people change, best friends fall out for any number of reasons, perhaps somebody in the group fall in love with another that is not co-linear, and wants to leave, but has invested in a wonderful group project... and legal wrangling starts.

I hope you guys have some sort of agreement, it would save so much wasted energy in the future, should such an unfortunate event occur, over some dispute over ownership, or money, or god knows what.

Some might say that’s like planning to fail, I would say, its planning to succeed, paying attention to reality... so there’s no misunderstanding and everything is agreed, not verbally, but in writing.

I wish you guys the best... exciting times for you.

Plus regarding building house - keep in mind radon gas, and remember to get somebody to check lay lines/underground streams, there’s another name for this, but it has escaped me... go figure. :zzz:

Again all the best..
 

nothingman

The Force is Strong With This One
Interesting subject!!...Perhaps a slight change of focus.... After living in a city and moving to the country you really can feel the huge change of energy.. I wonder if this change is intensifying and more people in general are going 'off the grid'...
 

happyliza

The Living Force
Davida said:
Thinking in regard to Seaniebawn post, and others who might be in similar situation...

I Just want to point out that although people can be co-linear at the beginning of an endeavour, people change, best friends fall out for any number of reasons, perhaps somebody in the group fall in love with another that is not co-linear, and wants to leave, but has invested in a wonderful group project... and legal wrangling starts.

I hope you guys have some sort of agreement, it would save so much wasted energy in the future, should such an unfortunate event occur, over some dispute over ownership, or money, or god knows what.

Some might say that’s like planning to fail, I would say, its planning to succeed, paying attention to reality... so there’s no misunderstanding and everything is agreed, not verbally, but in writing.

I wish you guys the best... exciting times for you.

Plus regarding building house - keep in mind radon gas, and remember to get somebody to check lay lines/underground streams, there’s another name for this, but it has escaped me... go figure. :zzz:

Again all the best..


Absolutely right Davida. It is a minefield of eventualities, pitfalls, legalities, especially as we are dealing with people. Authorities, legal status, Permits, Visas and Tax issues are bad enough! All things need to be considered and nor can things be rushed into, notwithstanding delays occuring anyway!

Edit: separated reply from quote
 
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