Foundational Economics and Hope for This Planet

[Amaterasu Solar]

Have You ever looked into foundational economics? Foundational economics examines the WHY of Our exchange to survive (trade, barter, work exchange, accounting tokens). This is not taught in schools of economics, which begin with the assumption that money is as much a part of the way things work as rain is. It is not taught because, once We see the foundation of Our use of exchange to survive, it becomes clear that We now have the technology to eliminate this impedance of flow between the vast abundance of this planet and Us Humans who live here. This impedance creates artificial scarcity. It creates poverty, oppression, wage/debt slavery, intrusion, and profiteering (war profiteering, prison profiteering, pharma profiteering, medical profiteering, chemical profiteering, food, water, air profiteering).

And on top of that, it promotes the psychopaths to the top of the money/power heap - They will do ANYTHING to get and keep money/power over Others. Today We see an incredible amount of evidence of psychopathy in control here on this planet - from sodium fluoride (a toxic industrial waste product used in German and Soviet concentration camps to keep prisoners docile) added to many water supplies, allowing the industries producing it to sell it for profit rather than dispose of it as the toxic substance it is, to GMO's loosed into the ecosystem in an effort to take over the food supply on the planet. Toxic vaccines, "geoengineering" with nanoparticulates of toxins such as aluminum, barium and strontium along with biologics and other nasty stuff, rat poison sweetening Our foods (Aspartame), "planned obsolescence" creating HUGE quantities of waste all to ensure profit, fake "news," propaganda, false flags, psyops, lies, false rumors, torture, Agenda 21 and the Codex Alimentarius, the NSA, the TSA, FEMA camps... The list of evidence of psychopathy in control here on this planet is very, very long.

But We CAN change this. We CAN create better on this planet. We can free Humanity from the impedance of a system that accounts for the energy We add into the system that accounts for the energy We add into the system. (A rather redundant thing, eh?) Because the two valid functions of money are to account for Our energy added and to motivate People to do necessary work no One wants to do, it is clear that We can add free energy - and before You scoff, know that I have personal awareness of electrogravitics that offers both gravity control and unlimited extraction of usable energy from the aether/"dark" energy/zero point energy/"vacuum," and which was pulled into black projects in the late 1950's because of its energy extraction capability which threatens the money/power-over-Others system - thereby making energy accounting moot, like accounting for grains of sand. We now can add robotics where We have work that needs to be done that no One WANTS to do, thereby removing the need to account for energy and force/coerce/bribe (pay) People to do things They don't want to do.

This allows the abundance of the planet - and to be sure, one of the psychopaths' lies-for-profit is "scarcity" - to flow to ALL Humans, freeing Us to create as We love to do rather than having to give up that love for a "career." The arts and sciences will burgeon, and Humanity can then allow the sane and not the psychopathic to choose the paths on this planet.

In fact, I propose We eliminate governMENT (controlMIND) - a system of "authority" within "law," which is unnatural, archonic, and very useful to psychopaths - and bring in a natural, stigmergic system within Ethics. Presently, the motive for most unEthical behavior can be traced to money/power-over-Others. Without that motivation, We would see a drastic drop in the breaching of Ethics.

There is a lot more I could write here, but I will offer a link to a collection of My work which includes analyses, details, and proposals:

T.A.P. - You're It!
_http://tapyoureit.boards.net/thread/2/abundance-paradigm-foundational-writings

I hope You choose to read and share awareness that We Humans DO have choices. If enough of Us are aware that We can... We WILL create better on this planet.


Amaterasu Solar

"Revolution in ideas, not blood."

♥♥♥

"Did You give an oath and find it's bait and switch? Well, there is no oath then, is there?"
"ALL money systems promote the most psychopathic to the top of the money/power heap - THEY will do ANYTHING to get there."
"The love of money is the root of all evil; remove the soil in which the root grows..."
"If the universe is made of mostly "dark" energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of war."

 

[michaelrc]

Hi Amaterasu Solar! Ya know if my tank wasn't already full with trying to digest this forum... your pitch might have a little more traction. Just being real here.

 

[Amaterasu Solar]

Well... That was My first post. [smile] I'm a newbie here M'self. I hope You think on what I bring. Thank You for reading!

 

[Renaissance]

If you get a chance, check out Political Ponerology Amaterasu Solar. It covers the dynamics of how psychopaths corrupt groups of all sizes and types (governments and non-governments alike). Here's a good intro article on the subject if you're unfamiliar with it.

 

[Dylan]

Impedance=impediment I hope.

Other than that, I'm not really sure why people think the economic system itself is the problem. Money is a brilliant tool that allows a fair exchange of goods and services, but of course it's conditional. I would volunteer that if the psycopaths were removed from power, humanity would be able to internalize the externalies and reflect a true cost economic system that would allow us to account for the social and environmental cost of doing business. True cost economics has been around for a century, it's ideas are well rounded and researched and it's proponents are legion. The concerns people have with our economic system are largely base upon emotional reaction to the ptb which control the system and not with a rational understanding of that economic system.

 

[axj]

This allows the abundance of the planet - and to be sure, one of the psychopaths' lies-for-profit is "scarcity" - to flow to ALL Humans, freeing Us to create as We love to do rather than having to give up that love for a "career." The arts and sciences will burgeon, and Humanity can then allow the sane and not the psychopathic to choose the paths on this planet.

I think that all of this is a true possibility for our planet. The problem is in the 'details' of how to remove psychopaths from positions of power and influence. As of now, spreading the information about their doings seems to be the most effective way - but it seems far from certain at this point when or how the psychopaths can be removed from positions of power.

Let's hope that the upcoming "triple bad day" for psychopaths that the C's talked about will help in this.

 

[Amaterasu Solar]

If you get a chance, check out Political Ponerology Amaterasu Solar. It covers the dynamics of how psychopaths corrupt groups of all sizes and types (governments and non-governments alike). Here's a good intro article on the subject if you're unfamiliar with it.

I will check it out. Thanks for the link. [smile] I will, however, point out that psychopaths, though capable of creating poorly on a personal level through charisma and faux concern, have the power over Others on any large scale through Their ability to pay toadies, armies, and strong-arms. They do very little evil personally. No, there is no solution to any charisma/faux behavior, but the bulk of what They create today is specifically rooted in Their ability to pay/control Others.

Point being that if We choose to hold Ethics up as Our measure, the small percentage of psychopaths will have very little effect on the flow of events overall.

Impedance=impediment I hope.

Other than that, I'm not really sure why people think the economic system itself is the problem. Money is a brilliant tool that allows a fair exchange of goods and services, but of course it's conditional. I would volunteer that if the psycopaths were removed from power, humanity would be able to internalize the externalies and reflect a true cost economic system that would allow us to account for the social and environmental cost of doing business. True cost economics has been around for a century, it's ideas are well rounded and researched and it's proponents are legion. The concerns people have with our economic system are largely base upon emotional reaction to the ptb which control the system and not with a rational understanding of that economic system.

Money was (arguably) introduced as a control mechanism. If We don't HAVE to exchange to survive, doing what We love to do for the betterment, We don't have to allow for "fair exchange of goods and services," which is still accounting for Our energy input.

As for history, understand it is no measure. Why? Because up until the 20th century, energy (Human) to input was scarce. Today We can extract all the energy We want from the aether, and create robots to do necessary work no One WANTS to do. These are game-changers. New territory.

And MY concern is that, in all money systems, We WILL see poverty and privilege, We WILL be required to plug Our energy in to be considered "worthy" of enough to survive on. We (virtually all of Us) WILL have to give up the creation We love to add energy somehow to the enrichment of a much fewer Others. And psychopaths WILL seize this control. Even if We take out the psychopaths at the top now, there will be Others that will scheme and plot for ways They can buy false flags, psyops, propaganda, fake "news," false rumor, and agents provocateurs. Just like today.

At best, taking out Those at the top, without taking out the means to acquire a position whereby such things affect the many of Us, WILL create again just what We see today.

I have no problem with the idea of money, in and of itself, when used Ethically - but the problem with money is it promotes unEthical behaviors. And a VERY large amount is spent unEthically.

This allows the abundance of the planet - and to be sure, one of the psychopaths' lies-for-profit is "scarcity" - to flow to ALL Humans, freeing Us to create as We love to do rather than having to give up that love for a "career." The arts and sciences will burgeon, and Humanity can then allow the sane and not the psychopathic to choose the paths on this planet.

I think that all of this is a true possibility for our planet. The problem is in the 'details' of how to remove psychopaths from positions of power and influence. As of now, spreading the information about their doings seems to be the most effective way - but it seems far from certain at this point when or how the psychopaths can be removed from positions of power.

Let's hope that the upcoming "triple bad day" for psychopaths that the C's talked about will help in this.

The first step is to get awareness that We DO have this choice to the tipping point. This will promote efforts to duplicate the free energy methods, or even encourage Those with the knowledge to step forth and share it with all. With the web, suppressing all successes in achieving energy extraction from the aether will be impossible, when more and more are working on it.

I detail more in the thread I linked to in the OP (original post), offering a plan. Not sure why My link there was "castrated..." - made unclickable - but I may bring some of My articles here when time permits.

Thank You all for Your responses. I look forward to more!

 

[Dylan]

The thing is, while I admire your lofty goals and do understand that the technological potential is that we may remove labour from human hands and place them in the hands of machines, you are forgetting or minimizing one major thing. It is a utopian idea, and while to some extent this is useful, did not Socrates elucidate the problems of fantasizing without solid recourse to actionable results? If, as you say, our first task is to understand the idea of foundational economics and become aware of our potential, then I would counter by asking what's the second step?

Step one - awareness

Step two -

Step three - utopia

The problem I mentioned is the same problem I have with the Venus project. You have thrown the baby out with the bath water. I am not wedded to money, but I understand viscerally it's utility because I have tried to exchange services by way of barter and am always struck by its inefficiencies and the greater amount of work two parties end up partaking in their transaction. That is not to say that it doesn't have it's place, but it is largely cumbersome. Money is not the problem, nor the root of the problem. Psychopathology is, and I would suggest that a true cost system of economics would be much closer in line to your desired state without the poison of pathological machinations then you presume.

While there are certainly some manual tasks that people do not enjoy, there are others which many people take great pride in and are not likely replaceable by technological components which don't have the humans ability to imbue spirituality into a craft. Not to mention that people are driven by a desire to see the fruit of their labour, and though some of the reticence to share is due to conditioning from generations of psychological manipulation, I think it is demonstrable that people truly want to be able to compete yet collaborate, but also if they work harder then their neighbour should not be resigned to the same reward system. Most of these utopian economic systems fail to understand basic human psychology, and completely ignore psycopathy. This is where I get off the train.

 

[Amaterasu Solar]

The thing is, while I admire your lofty goals and do understand that the technological potential is that we may remove labour from human hands and place them in the hands of machines, you are forgetting or minimizing one major thing. It is a utopian idea,

No... It is not a utopia - We will still have problems to solve - just a heck of a lot better than Now.

and while to some extent this is useful, did not Socrates elucidate the problems of fantasizing without solid recourse to actionable results? If, as you say, our first task is to understand the idea of foundational economics and become aware of our potential, then I would counter by asking what's the second step?

Step one - awareness

Step two -

Step three - utopia

The second step is getting free energy flowing, through disclosure or grassroots efforts; this will remove the cost of energy all down the line. Third step, replace all necessary work that We do not have enough of Us that want to do it with robots (PLENTY of People who love to build and program robots, I dare say!). Fourth, add a central site for governance, reporting and solving problem, first locally, and if local solutions cannot be found elevating the problems to wider and wider awareness for added creativity of thought. If a problem is so large it reaches planetary awareness and still can't be solved, I reckon We're SOL. But I do bot foresee that as anything with high probability.

And again... No utopia. Just vastly better.

I did suggest that One (copy & paste) the link I gave, which has this plan in more detail...

The problem I mentioned is the same problem I have with the Venus project. You have thrown the baby out with the bath water. I am not wedded to money, but I understand viscerally it's utility because I have tried to exchange services by way of barter and am always struck by its inefficiencies and the greater amount of work two parties end up partaking in their transaction. That is not to say that it doesn't have it's place, but it is largely cumbersome. Money is not the problem, nor the root of the problem. Psychopathology is, and I would suggest that a true cost system of economics would be much closer in line to your desired state without the poison of pathological machinations then you presume.

In what I offer, there is no need for exchange to survive. Though I like Venus and Zeitgeist in general, where I diverge is in the "central planning" ("authority"). There is no planning, as any such planning interferes with the natural stigmergic emergence of Humans working towards betterment. It can become oppressive. It can be seen as a power over Others (and draw the psychopaths to figure out how to manipulate it). With good and services provided by People who love to do the creation - and We all will do what We love to do just for the social currency of thanks, appreciation, lauds, fame, status, and Self-satisfaction - or by robots, We can offer the goods and services on the web. Those who want can order the things for free. Delivery will be by Those who love to deliver things or (most likely) robots.

While there are certainly some manual tasks that people do not enjoy, there are others which many people take great pride in and are not likely replaceable by technological components which don't have the humans ability to imbue spirituality into a craft. Not to mention that people are driven by a desire to see the fruit of their labour, and though some of the reticence to share is due to conditioning from generations of psychological manipulation, I think it is demonstrable that people truly want to be able to compete yet collaborate, but also if they work harder then their neighbour should not be resigned to the same reward system. Most of these utopian economic systems fail to understand basic human psychology, and completely ignore psycopathy. This is where I get off the train.

I am not advocating replacing Humans in all tasks. In fact, the "rule" is, if enough People WANT to do it, no robots necessary. Preferably, there would be no robots at all. But realistically, far too few want to scrub the commode. Betting that gets done mostly by robots. And another example is farming... Not a great number of Us would, if We had a choice of anything to do, would choose farming. BUT... There are surely some few that LOVE to farm. They could have as much land of the areas being farmed as They want to handle. Any robots there would move out of the way. But still, most farming would likely be done by robot.

I want to get away from the idea of "sharing." This abundant planet offers so much that if We all tried really hard to consume it all, We could not make a dent. I prefer, rather than the communistic view of "one pie divided equally," more of a HUGE buffet that We Each may take what We want of. Competition will be in the form of recogition - being seen as offering the BEST [whatever]. Getting the most thumbs up in the web for the services/products We offer.

And one aspect I haven't touched on is that, since We are no longer forced to go to a job, We no longer HAVE to put up with People We don't like. We All can fill Our lives only with Those We like spending time with. This creates what I call social superconductance... It will vastly reduce social friction.

Lastly... I offer a link to an article of Mine:

On Human Nature
_http://tapyoureit.boards.net/thread/16/on-human-nature

Looking forward to Your thoughts.

And "working harder" and "rewards" are ALWAYS subjective. In the system as it is now, MANY would HAPPILY work very hard but there are no jobs for Them. So very many. So when a pittance is given Them, the Ones with jobs say things like, "Look, I'm working! Why should THEY get that for no work at all???" This creates friction, too. Since there is no accounting in the abundance paradigm, no One can say that They are in some way getting a shaft - either because They "worked harder" or because They need help as there is no path to plugging in Their energy.

 

[Dylan]

Energy exchange is a basic fact of life, and our corrupt economic system at least recognizes this much. This is reflected when a person needs a window insulated and the window installer needs a tree pruned. They exchange services, but in order for it to be fair each service needs to be valued objectively. This is where money comes in. Of course it appears that in your scenario, everyone is starting from the point at which there are no needs so this leads me to deduce a utopian conceptualization. Regardless of whether the tap of free energy has been turned on, there needs to be infrastructure to maintain that flow and that infrastructure needs to be maintained. Who performs this work, and why would they do it for free? Who extracts the resources necessary to install and maintain the free energy systems and why would they do it for free? Robots?

While you suggest that your concepts do not require a large bueareaucratic structure to maintain it, I can foresee no other way that they could be implemented, not to mention that I think your arguments require a glossing over of basic human nature, which is a problem. Unless you have a solution to changing the way in which the majority of people function...which of course seems a utopian ideal. Again, true cost economics has been around for a century. Let me expound with an example...

If the actual cost of extracting and rehabilitating the land from which the infamous tar sands oil is acquired, as well as the cost to the indigenous communities were accounted for in the price of the oil per barrel removed from sites like these, then we would see that the cost to extract the oil would always vastly overtake the price to sell it at market. The oil still has to be shipped an refined, which carries inherent probabilistic risks which could and ought to be accounted for, as well as the pollutants yielded from the refining process etc... Then it would quickly become evident that the current energy paradigm is incapable of sustainably providing for our energy needs. Not to mention that there are huge corporate subsidies and tax shelters which encourage investment in this sector. And then there is the history of the suppression of alternative techs by the fossil fuel companies. Add this all together and one realizes that if we weren't manipulated by pathologicals, and the economic system was allowed to function as it is designed as well as based upon the principles of humanism and grassroots governance that are prevented by said pathologicals, we would likely already be in a state similar to that which you envision. The problem is not an economic system based upon fair exchange for goods and services, but that the definitions of each word in that statement are reliant upon the dictionary of psycopaths. It is time we rediscover the true nature of our economic reality, and refusing to acknowledge that at its core it is based upon exchange is tantamount to idealistic Utopianism.

Point is that the wheel need not be reinvented, but some of the spokes need replacing and the road ought not be paved with the sacrifices of many for the few to ride for free.

Before we had an electrical grid we had commerce based upon the exchange of goods and services, and the problem is that when you suggest people give up their goods or services for free they will immediately ask why? So, why remove a fundamental principle of reality, ie. energy exchange, to which most rational people will only commit to with some idea of reward for giving up their energy? This is the principle which I challenge, and while you have given me some food for thought, I remain skeptical.

I'll read your treatise, but it'll take a lot to convince me.

 

[Amaterasu Solar]

Energy exchange is a basic fact of life,

Only because energy was scarce. With the ability to access effectively infinite energy, accounting for it becomes like accounting for grains of sand: pointless.

and our corrupt economic system at least recognizes this much.

It is founded on energy scarcity. Thus abundant energy changes the game.

This is reflected when a person needs a window insulated and the window installer needs a tree pruned. They exchange services, but in order for it to be fair each service needs to be valued objectively.

There is no objectivity in placing value. It is a subjective affair. I have seen paintings that I would not pay $10 for that sold for a million. What needs to take place, if You need to exchange to survive, is that the subjective evaluation of each party of the Other's good/services has to match what Each evaluates Their own goods/services to be worth. For example, One dying of thirst will likely value a glass of water MUCH higher than One who has just quenched His/Her thirst.

This is where money comes in.

In a system that requires exchange to survive, yes.

Of course it appears that in your scenario, everyone is starting from the point at which there are no needs so this leads me to deduce a utopian conceptualization.

Then You misunderstand what I offer here. We start from where We are right now. Already, We have a large portion of Our basic products mechanized - some cars are built entirely by robots. If awareness of the goal - to get rid of the need for money - is in the general awareness, and We add free energy, the cost of energy will be stripped all down the line. This will make things very cheap. Adding robots where there are jobs We need but the People doing them don't WANT to do them will remove the cost of Human energy. Since 100% of the cost of EVERYTHING is energy, there is now no cost.

As I pointed out above, We will do what We WANT to do for the social currency We receive. Thanks, gratitude, honor, status, love, fame, lauds, etc. We then give what We create to Those, not who pay the highest price, but to Those who most appreciate Our work. We no longer need to exchange to survive, all basics being provided richly and freely. We no longer have to give up what We love to do - playing an instrument, researching something that fascinates Us, traveling, producing a movie, whatever - to find some way to add Our energy just to survive that (as is the case for most now) bores Us at best, or We loathe at worst. Our creative energy is far better spent. Our time is Our own. We are no longer wage slave.

Regardless of whether the tap of free energy has been turned on, there needs to be infrastructure to maintain that flow and that infrastructure needs to be maintained. Who performs this work,

Those who LOVE to do it - or robots.

and why would they do it for free?

Because We LOVE to do it and it makes Us feel of value what Others appreciate Our work. We don't need money, so why not do things for Others We love to do and makes Us feel good about what We have created?

Who extracts the resources necessary to install and maintain the free energy systems and why would they do it for free? Robots?

And Those who LOVE to do the work. I would not keep People from what They love to do.

While you suggest that your concepts do not require a large bueareaucratic structure to maintain it, I can foresee no other way that they could be implemented,

I guess I will have to bring My pieces on a solutocracy here. It's late now, but I will add them tomorrow.

not to mention that I think your arguments require a glossing over of basic human nature,

Will bring My piece on Human nature over as well. That link was offered above, but it too is castrated. (Not clickable.)

which is a problem. Unless you have a solution to changing the way in which the majority of people function...which of course seems a utopian ideal.

Would not have to. I just allow People to free Themselves from work They do not want to do. Not a utopia...again, just far better than now, with Our poverty, oppression, wage/debt slavery, intrusion, and profiteering (war profiteering, prison profiteering, pharma profiteering, medical profiteering, chemical profiteering, food, water, air profiteering).

Again, true cost economics has been around for a century. Let me expound with an example...

If the actual cost of extracting and rehabilitating the land from which the infamous tar sands oil is acquired,

Bad example, as with clean energy from the aether, We would not need the destructive and polluting tar sand oil - or ANY oil. We can make far better, healthier plastics from hemp oil... But Let's continue...

as well as the cost to the indigenous communities were accounted for in the price of the oil per barrel removed from sites like these, then we would see that the cost to extract the oil would always vastly overtake the price to sell it at market. The oil still has to be shipped an refined, which carries inherent probabilistic risks which could and ought to be accounted for, as well as the pollutants yielded from the refining process etc... Then it would quickly become evident that the current energy paradigm is incapable of sustainably providing for our energy needs. Not to mention that there are huge corporate subsidies and tax shelters which encourage investment in this sector. And then there is the history of the suppression of alternative techs by the fossil fuel companies. Add this all together and one realizes that if we weren't manipulated by pathologicals, and the economic system was allowed to function as it is designed as well as based upon the principles of humanism and grassroots governance that are prevented by said pathologicals, we would likely already be in a state similar to that which you envision. The problem is not an economic system based upon fair exchange for goods and services, but that the definitions of each word in that statement are reliant upon the dictionary of psycopaths. It is time we rediscover the true nature of our economic reality, and refusing to acknowledge that at its core it is based upon exchange is tantamount to idealistic Utopianism.

Well most of that above is moot - tar sands & its issues. We have a problem on this planet, indeed, but it's not the People at the top of the money/power heap, per se (though Those there now may be creating the specifics We see today). It is a function of all money systems to promote the most psychopathic to the top of the money/power-over-Others heap. They are the Ones willing to do ANYTHING to get and keep the money/power-over-Others.

So if We removed the psychopaths at the top today, there will always be psychopaths scheming and doing things that promote Them to the same place that Those at the top today hold. With Their money They will create false flags, psyops, propaganda, fake "news," false rumor, and lies to justify Their choices and whip up Our emotions such that We believe these choices are "good" for Us. Just like today.

Point is that the wheel need not be reinvented, but some of the spokes need replacing and the road ought not be paved with the sacrifices of many for the few to ride for free.

It's more like replacing a square wheel with a round one.

Before we had an electrical grid we had commerce based upon the exchange of goods and services, and the problem is that when you suggest people give up their goods or services for free they will immediately ask why?

Not "for free" precisely. For appreciation of Their creation. And Why not if They don't need money to eat, have a comfortable home, good clothing...

So, why remove a fundamental principle of reality, ie. energy exchange,

It is NOT a fundamental principle. It was a solution in energy scarcity.

to which most rational people will only commit to with some idea of reward for giving up their energy?

Oh, there is still plenty of reward. Just not MATERIAL reward. Social reward, spiritual reward. STO reward. Richness will be measured in character and not a bank account.

This is the principle which I challenge, and while you have given me some food for thought, I remain skeptical.

I do not mind Your skepticism. [smile] Through Your comments I can clarify for all readers.

I'll read your treatise, but it'll take a lot to convince me.

Thank You. I appreciate that. Though it's less a treatise and more an analysis. [smile]

 

[obyvatel]

Hi Amaterasu Solar,

A few comments, starting with the practical.

Free energy has been a human dream and is perhaps rightly identified as a paradigm changer if it ever became a reality. However, there seems to be formidable obstacles in its path of realization. Capable scientists working on such projects are often removed from the scene in one way or the other.
The point is, we do not have free energy today and unless we understand what stands in our (as in humanity's) way of really getting there, talking about economics in the free energy era may be considered an interesting thought experiment.


Now the other aspect which could seem to be a little far out if you are not familiar with the foundational work of this forum. One hypothesis is that the obstacles towards realizing free energy come not only from psychopathic elite but from hyperdimensional sources. If you have not read the "Wave" series, available for free at http://cassiopaea.org/, it is highly recommended.

Money represents energy in the our reality but it may not be the real "root of evil". From what little has been written/hypothesized about other/higher realms, it seems that availability and utilization of energy follows two fundamentally different pathways - expressed as STS and STO. Michael Topper's writings (http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/stalking.htm) can provide more details.

The point here is that if we accept the hyperdimensional hypothesis and all that comes with it, free energy by itself is not likely to change the basic orientation of a realm from STS to STO which is the sense I got from your writings and your beliefs about basic human nature.


Regarding
[quote author=Amaterasu Solar]
Will bring My piece on Human nature over as well. That link was offered above, but it too is castrated. (Not clickable.)
[/quote]

we have a policy in this forum to deactivate unfamiliar weblinks by default to prevent unwanted advertising. Since you have provided multiple links to your website, I would say it is safe to assume that anyone interested in this work can simply use the copy and paste function to visit your site and read the relevant material.

 

[Dylan]

Fwiw, I meant that exchange was a fundamental principle of reality. The point I'm making is that an exchange between parties in any economy, even those not based upon scarcity, is the basis of economy. Your proposal seems to posit that by removing the cost of energy, you remove the need to exchange, this is fallacy. You also posit that free energy will also allow people to only do the work they love. This seems to be wishful thinking, there will always be work people need to do that they don't love, and that work will be the crucible by which their ability to pursue truth will be formed.

Like I said, your ideas are laudable, but as obyvatel points out it seems you need an exploration into the deep nature of the universe around us.

Not to mention an exploration of the ideas of true cost economics.

Another thing you posit which I don't agree with is the idea that the world will provide an unlimited bounty that people don't need to share. Because energy is free and robots! While, with free energy it may be true that our ability to procure energy will remove the scarcity of energy, it won't remove the scarcity of time, rain water, topsoil, space or perhaps even the resources required to manufacture the infrastructure of the free energy paradigm. The economy is not based simply on the fact that resources can be made to appear scarce or are in fact scarce, but also on the fact that there are finite limitations involved with many component parts of the economy.

I get what you're saying, trust me, because I would love to see a world in which everyone can simply command r2d2 to do the work they don't want and the lights were always on and c3p0 brought breakfast every morning. But, there are some clear and defined obstacles in the way. You suggest that we start with where we are at, and perhaps my problem is that I've explored many economic theories and am drawn most powerfully to the true cost economic theory because it is the one which is most likely to be implemented with strong grassroots action, and doesn't rely upon free energy! (Or robots!)

 

[Amaterasu Solar]

Hi Amaterasu Solar,

A few comments, starting with the practical.

Free energy has been a human dream and is perhaps rightly identified as a paradigm changer if it ever became a reality. However, there seems to be formidable obstacles in its path of realization. Capable scientists working on such projects are often removed from the scene in one way or the other.
The point is, we do not have free energy today and unless we understand what stands in our (as in humanity's) way of really getting there, talking about economics in the free energy era may be considered an interesting thought experiment.

I am aware that getting FE into the public a a great hurdle, but as I said above, if enough of Us are aware of the true implications of it, which are to free Us from the financial grip of psychopaths, one of two things will happen. Either some of Those with the knowledge will come forth (and as My father worked with TT Brown on electrogravitics, I am fully aware of what it offered - gravity control and energy from the aether - I know that it is hidden in black projects) or the swelling of grassroots efforts will be more than the psychopaths can handle in trying to suppress all the ways We might come up with to extract from the energy We swim in.

Without an awareness of the implications, such grassroots efforts will be minimized. A great deal fewer will be moved to earn fame for having provided the means to extract, and the psychopaths will have a much easier time keeping the lid on. So it's not a thought experiment. It has a very practical function. That is why I do all I can to share awareness.

Now the other aspect which could seem to be a little far out if you are not familiar with the foundational work of this forum. One hypothesis is that the obstacles towards realizing free energy come not only from psychopathic elite but from hyperdimensional sources. If you have not read the "Wave" series, available for free at http://cassiopaea.org/, it is highly recommended.

I will admit I have not read deeply, but did scan, and found nothing I had not met in concept along the path of My studies. I also admit to fence-sitting on the concepts of channeling and hyperdimensional interplay here on this planet. I have no evidence personally of these things, and do not need them to explain what I do see here. But I also do not discount them as possibilities, as I have nothing that counters those data either. I have never been One to assign "True" and "False" to things. Dad taught Me to assign probabilities to things instead, adjusting them according to new data (that I also assign probability of truth/falsehood to...).

If there is some such entity/ies that keep Us from FE, I might presume They are not friendly to Humans... For all the children on this planet starving to death cannot be explained in any other way I can think of, and FE would free Us from poverty. Money is the great unequalizer, and FE would remove the need for that dangerous and enslaving tool.

Money represents energy in the our reality but it may not be the real "root of evil". From what little has been written/hypothesized about other/higher realms, it seems that availability and utilization of energy follows two fundamentally different pathways - expressed as STS and STO. Michael Topper's writings (http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/stalking.htm) can provide more details.

I am quite familiar with the ideas of STS & STO. And psychopaths are a prime example of STS. Be that as it may, and regardless of what the root of evil is, FE would remove the soil in which that root grows, if You give credence to the bible verse, "The love of money is the root of all evil," which I do because it explains what I see. Though I do not give credence to everything in the bible as literal truth, it, as most other scriptures, provides nuggets of gold.

The point here is that if we accept the hyperdimensional hypothesis and all that comes with it, free energy by itself is not likely to change the basic orientation of a realm from STS to STO which is the sense I got from your writings and your beliefs about basic human nature.

As I said, I'm on the fence on that whole thing. And surely, if I tilt at windmills here on this planet, trying to offer a solution, so be it. But I could not live with Myself, seeing a solution and NOT trying to bring it to popular awareness. And truth be told, My life would be stripped of meaning if I give up because I chose to believe that some superpower was not going to let Me succeed. And I define "success" as igniting global discussion. What We Humans choose to do, having that awareness, is not Mine. My work will be done at the point awareness reaches the tipping point.

If I chose to throw up My hands and accept that I have no power here...I would not be here much longer. And so, I do not accept that something I have evidence neither for or against, and don't need to explain what I see, has much probability. I will persist on course to getting that global dialog going.

Regarding
[quote author=Amaterasu Solar]
Will bring My piece on Human nature over as well. That link was offered above, but it too is castrated. (Not clickable.)

we have a policy in this forum to deactivate unfamiliar weblinks by default to prevent unwanted advertising. Since you have provided multiple links to your website, I would say it is safe to assume that anyone interested in this work can simply use the copy and paste function to visit your site and read the relevant material.[/quote]

Thank You for the explanation. I had figured as much, and was not too unhappy. [smile] My forum is a free forum offered through Proboards. I have an ad blocking plugin and do not see any ads, but I know Proboards has them on My forum - someOne gave Me a screen shot and I saw one of them, so I know they're there. I am not responsible for their content, nor do I benefit one cent for their being there. All I get out of it all is a free forum. Having had 38 cents to My name for 6 months now (I had a dollar something for close to a year but spent most of it getting an item I needed and could afford about 6 months ago), the fact that the forum is free to Me is very important. If I could afford to, I would pay to remove the ads. [smile]

 

[Amaterasu Solar]

Fwiw, I meant that exchange was a fundamental principle of reality. The point I'm making is that an exchange between parties in any economy, even those not based upon scarcity, is the basis of economy. Your proposal seems to posit that by removing the cost of energy, you remove the need to exchange, this is fallacy. You also posit that free energy will also allow people to only do the work they love. This seems to be wishful thinking, there will always be work people need to do that they don't love, and that work will be the crucible by which their ability to pursue truth will be formed.

I'm saying that it CAN; that knowing the foundations of economics and the INTIMATE relationship between money and energy (money=power=energy much like ice=water=steam) will allow Us to CHOOSE to get rid of this tool that promotes so many destructive things. From simple robbery to unconscionable waste through planned obsolescence to forcing on Us GMO, Roundup and similar, sodium fluoride, rat poison (Aspartame), "geoengineering" with toxic nanoparticulates, biologics and who knows what else, and on and on.

Like I said, your ideas are laudable, but as obyvatel points out it seems you need an exploration into the deep nature of the universe around us.

Why would You assume I have done no such exploring? I have read much - even on the ideas of channeling and hyperdimensions and parallel universes and branes and many other "outre" topics. Many I discovered I didn't need to explain what I see. I don't discount, not do I accept. I await evidence.

Not to mention an exploration of the ideas of true cost economics.

I have studied standard economics in depth, worked in banking for 14 years, and probably have a better grasp of things than most on this planet. I also looked into the WHYs of Our exchange to survive, and getting to that depth, the solution became clear. Economics courses never addressed the exchange to survive on that level, and I suspect You have not either...

Another thing you posit which I don't agree with is the idea that the world will provide an unlimited bounty that people don't need to share. Because energy is free and robots! While, with free energy it may be true that our ability to procure energy will remove the scarcity of energy, it won't remove the scarcity of time, rain water, topsoil, space or perhaps even the resources required to manufacture the infrastructure of the free energy paradigm. The economy is not based simply on the fact that resources can be made to appear scarce or are in fact scarce, but also on the fact that there are finite limitations involved with many component parts of the economy.

The fact that if every Human on this planet was placed into the state of Texas, every man, woman and child would have over 1200 sq. feet, that if We all were given 1/4 acre in Australia there would still be a chunk of Australia left over - and Australia is only 4% of land mass EXcluding Antarctica, that the volume of Humanity would not fill a side canyon at the Grand Canyon, I would say space is not an issue. (Add to that a third dimension with gravity control, sky houses, and the amount of space becomes HUGE.) We have Dean Kamen's (Segway fame) water purification device which, with free energy, could provide clean water anywhere. We have transmuted lead to gold in the 1970's but made very little because the cost of energy would have made an ounce cost about 1 million in 1970's dollars - imagine if We had free energy. We presently produce 125% of the food We all could eat, but 30-40% of it spoils before sale - distributing by profit and not need. We pay farmers to NOT grow food, or to destroy crops to keep prices up. We have new tech such as vertical farming... So food is not an issue. We presently create mountains of waste with planned obsolescence, which is SOLELY driven by money/profit... Without getting rid of the money tool, We will continue with degraded and purposely flawed products and creating waste in staggering amounts.

The use of money promotes SO much bad behavior I am astounded by Those who would defend its continuation.

I get what you're saying, trust me, because I would love to see a world in which everyone can simply command r2d2 to do the work they don't want and the lights were always on and c3p0 brought breakfast every morning. But, there are some clear and defined obstacles in the way. You suggest that we start with where we are at, and perhaps my problem is that I've explored many economic theories and am drawn most powerfully to the true cost economic theory because it is the one which is most likely to be implemented with strong grassroots action, and doesn't rely upon free energy! (Or robots!)

But it does retain the tool that promotes psychopaths into positions of the power over Other They seek, allows Them to create false flags, psyops, fake "news," and all, keeps Us having to add Human energy into the system that accounts for Our energy, moving the bulk of the wealth of this planet to very few, creates poverty and privilege, allows children to die of starvation, promotes unEthical choices (robbery, murder of competition, war for profit, etc.), creates impedance of the flow of the abundance to most of Us, forces Us to find ways to plug Our time/energy into things We don't want to do (enriching the few), makes Us wage slaves, keeps Us from tools and materials to create as We would love to do, hinders education to all but Those who can afford it or are willing to go deeply into debt (creating debt slaves), promotes consumerism and materialistic focus, and many more ills.

If enough of Us are aware that We CAN remove this tool that creates SO much damage to Us and Our planet, We WILL.