Fulcanelli and Gurdjieff

[Vulcan59]

.......May i ask to have my account deleted. thanks.

Hi Nathaniel,

You are sure that you want us to do this? The action is irreversible although you could join again at a later date, assuming that you would want to do so.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

It is not that im am uninterested in actually progressing. And no i am not lazy and unmotivated. And you speak about alchemy but yet you call basil and flamel and kamala liars about the red stone. Saying that there is no such thing as an elixir which cures all illnesses from the body and mind. well im leave it at that . May i ask to have my account deleted. thanks.

Nathaniel, no one is calling Flamel or any other alchemist, a 'liar'. If you read Laura's work, or Fulcanelli's, you'll see that alchemists spoke in code. They even say as much in their writings. That is one of the most basic ideas of esoterica, that certain words, images, and symbols have very specific meanings, meanings which are not clear to the uninitiated reader. When Flamel speaks of the red stone, how do you know you know what he is talking about? Are you so sure of yourself that you think you know the true meaning of what he's saying? Esoteric writings are written in such a way that those who are not ready, who have not worked upon themselves, cannot understand them. It's only after a lot of work, experience, and gained knowledge, that certain symbols make sense. If you're interested in these things I can only recommend you read Laura's work, Fulcanelli's work, Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous and Mouravieff's Gnosis series. Otherwise, as anart said, maybe this forum isn't the right place for you?

For example, Fulcanelli wrote:

"Alchemy is obscure, only because it is hidden. The philosophers who wanted to transmit the exposition of their doctrine and the fruit of their labors to posterity took great care not to divulge the art by presenting it under a common form, so that the layman could not misuse it. ...that the philosophers had no other means at their disposal to steal from the ones what they wanted to expose to the others, but this confusion of metaphors, of diverse symbols, this prolixity of terms, of capricious formulas traced by the flow of the pen, expressed in clear language for the use of the greedy or the foolish..."

 

[Gertrudes]

Meditation is also a form of alchemy since you try to raise the kundalini or secret fire, but with the meditation it takes longer and i myself experienced this with the kundalini which i did not raise it to the top of my head but half way but it is draining it feels like a liquid in your spine. it takes 100 days to raise the first lvl of the kundalini then you go on to the next stage. but with the minerals its much shorter and you can say its like the secret of the alchemist. I've experienced astral projection myself so i know what the alchemist are talking about, but i did not reach 7 d. so yea i have an small idea of what they mean. :)

I'm afraid that you have digested a lot of disinformation, Nathaniel. It is not about 'kundalini' - this is all disinformation. Perhaps if you search for the term 'kundalini' on the forum, you can find out why this is disinformation. I strongly suggest that you read Secret History of the World to clear up some of your misconceptions. It's understandable that one can be led astray with all the disinformation out there, but there is no magic elixir one can ingest to do the Great Work and there are no short cuts. It's not about new age ideas of kundalini or astral projection. Becoming familiar with the work of G.I. Gurdjieff will also help you, since his 'fusion of a singular I' and discussion about using internal heat to transform bring a lot of alchemical references to a more easily accessed intellectual level.

Yes Nathaniel, one of the biggest obstacles is to be self-satisfied, we think we already know, we think we are ready to climb high mountains but we need first to be able to walk on flat.
Realy there is nothing you can do now, not untill you refuse dreaming. [/fon

How am i dreaming? i was talking about meditation and alchemy stages for meditation and for practical alchemy? So you think im just dreaming all this stuff up? I dont know if you read about alchemy but this stuff is real. And i cant prove it to anyone since you havnt experience what i experinced. alchemy is science

Hi Nathaniel,

I don't think that anyone has said that that stuff is not real. As far as I undersand there's quite a good number of people on this forum who have experienced some pretty odd things themselves. The point is, and as it is stated in the posts you have quoted, some things are purely disinformation (http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=249&lsel=D) and shortcuts. And that leads to entropy, in other words STS.
It is about HOW you work on yourself. "Fantastic" experiences can work similarly to a drug that keeps one hooked to the experience itself, making one think that he/she has found the "real deal", while he/she is only being distracted from the real path of self growth and possible transmutation.

It is not that im am uninterested in actually progressing. And no i am not lazy and unmotivated. And you speak about alchemy but yet you call basil and flamel and kamala liars about the red stone. Saying that there is no such thing as an elixir which cures all illnesses from the body and mind. well im leave it at that . May i ask to have my account deleted. thanks.

I would suggest you to consider questioning what "elixir" can mean.

 

[Ivan_]

It also depends on how long you practice each day. One thing i still dont know is how high are we suppose to raise our vibrations or energy for this forth way work that you talk about?

Nathaniel, no one can hand this to you on a platter. You have to do the work to learn what it is you need to learn to progress. You have to. There is no other way. There are no short cuts. If you can't even bother to read Secret History of the World to get the background information necessary to begin to actually prepare to practice alchemy, then it is not for you. If you are that uninterested in actually progressing that it is not worth putting in time and effort reading and learning, if you are that lazy and unmotivated, then you would likely be better off finding something that does interest you and doing that.

This is not a game, it is not a hobby, it is a life's work. If you are not ready to begin it, you are not ready to begin it - there is nothing objectively wrong with that. Perhaps finding another forum and other information that does interest you might be a good idea?

It is not that im am uninterested in actually progressing. And no i am not lazy and unmotivated. And you speak about alchemy but yet you call basil and flamel and kamala liars about the red stone. Saying that there is no such thing as an elixir which cures all illnesses from the body and mind. well im leave it at that . May i ask to have my account deleted. thanks.

Hey Nathaniel, nobody mentioned Basil or Flamel or called them liars. There is a red stone (and other stones as well as you can see in the videos which I have posted). The nature of the 4th Way Work is rather concentrated on perfecting your emotional, mind and physical centers by working at them all at once and as Anart said, it is a life's work. How can this be done? You can see that for yourself if you read In search of the miraculous and Mouravieff's Gnosis and the books by Gurdjieff. The final result of this path is fusing a connection with your higher I but is not easy to achieve because we aren't spiritually pure enough, we have lots of attachments and karmic issues, disbalances in the centers, etc. It requires hard work and after seeking and gaining true knowledge and control over yourself and knowledge of your inner world, can you raise your vibrations, imho. At the beginning of the path I was seeking the minimum requirements, just like you. But when I settled down and did some reading, working on myself I found that there is an amazing new world to explore, why should I look at the clock or the minimum? Quotes like the following made me quit looking at the minimum requirements and opened me to this amazing world:

Some very advanced alchemists have hinted at a range of previous humanities in excess of thirty. If this is the true but wholly unsuspected history of our planet, much knowledge may have been selectively accumulated in a span of existence which imagination is inadequate even to visualize.

But those enlightened men did a lot of reading and researching on ancient history, mythology they came across tons of disinfo and learned how to see the unseen and discern the truth, how to find the ancient Science, etc. It takes a lot of Work.
So what do you think? If you have some time, I advise you to check the 4th Way Work and try to observe in yourself whether what it says about man is true or not.

 

[anart]

It is not that im am uninterested in actually progressing. And no i am not lazy and unmotivated.

Okay, that is good - from the perspective of someone who is interested in escaping this 'time loop'. Escaping takes Work - and knowledge input on a regular basis, which, in our world, means reading.

And you speak about alchemy but yet you call basil and flamel and kamala liars about the red stone.

Nope - never called anyone a liar. You simply do not understand what they are saying.

Saying that there is no such thing as an elixir which cures all illnesses from the body and mind.

There is not - not in the context in which you speak. You have taken the map to be the territory. You have missed the deeper meaning. If you are sincere in your drive to awaken, it's time to become familiar with an objective dictionary - not the one you have been using. It's up to you.

well im leave it at that . May i ask to have my account deleted. thanks.

I think that would be the worst thing for you, actually. If you are sincere about progressing esoterically then you need knowledge, not distraction and dreams. Of course, it is up to you and you can leave this forum any time. You've received great responses from others on this, so I don't have anything to add.

 

[Laura]

Based on what Nathaniel has written in this thread: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=18377.0 ... about needing a job, the suggestions given to him there, pointing out that your life is a reflection of who/what you are, it does not seem that he has understood much of anything.

 

[dant]

[...]
Yes i've been doing breathing exercises for a long time even before i join this forum. But what happens after that? are we suppose to activate our psychic abilities? then what happens after that? To tell you the truth im just BORED! i have so much time in my hands. i dont have to worry about any bills thanks to my father and i dont have a girlfriend so i dont deal with those relationship problems which is useless. So what do i do now. How high do i have to raise my vibrations? and reading so many books is just boring..

Right here, in bold, it seems to be rather telling...

It appears to me, that he is perhaps focusing on the
emotional/physical, has no need of further advancing
his intellectual (mind) with the hard work of reading,
study, and research in order to clean the whole of his
machine, per the 4th way of Gurdjieff, and is stuck on
physical interpretation of Alchemy as if the only/true
way on the path?

Perhaps, he also believes he will always be in a comfortable
earthly state, and his needs will always be taken care of by
his Father?

Maybe I projecting, a bit off, but this seems to be my first
impressions...

FWIW,
Dan

 

[genero81]

I'm attending a meetup tomorrow night. We have a guest speaker who's to introduce the topic of alchemy to us. I don't have high hopes, however the timing is interesting considering Patrick Riviere just passed. Anyway, there was something that Fulcanelli wrote that hinted to the key of alchemy being a certain type of rigorous thought. Does anybody have that available? I would love to have that at the ready. Thanks

 

[Anthony]

I'm attending a meetup tomorrow night. We have a guest speaker who's to introduce the topic of alchemy to us. I don't have high hopes, however the timing is interesting considering Patrick Riviere just passed. Anyway, there was something that Fulcanelli wrote that hinted to the key of alchemy being a certain type of rigorous thought. Does anybody have that available? I would love to have that at the ready. Thanks

I assume you're referring to the following?

The alchemists insisted that one should heat the retort many times before making the final distillation. This is an emblem of true thought: one must pass one’s thinking through the furnace many times, to be sure. One should think with a hammer, rather than with a brain, as one shapes our thought from dross matter.

 

[genero81]

I assume you're referring to the following?

Thank you! That will do nicely.