Fulcanelli and Gurdjieff

[nate]

If you read the first chapter of "le mystère des cathédrales" of Fulcanelli, and at many occasions in "demeures philosophales", it is clear that Alchemy is about internal process and those material processes are metaphors for the internal work (and give the illusion that it is a materialistic chimera for strategic enclosure). This is a simplification of course, because the material process can be used as a hint into the multidimensional aspect of the process. Le first chapters of "The Secret History of the World" is a more than recommended material on this topic.

Ok so can you explain what do you mean by internal work. and how it is done?

 

[nate]

I knew this. thats what the medicine is for. when you take it, it cleanses your body from all impurities and make your body like a super conductor. So then you can come out your body like if you were doing astral projection to know who you really are and also go out of time like you said. its not so hard to understand.

No, Nathaniel, I'm afraid you are mistaken. It's not about taking a substance or astral projection. There are no short cuts.

And yes the alchemist dont really write about it plainly but i read books on doaist alchemy and they explain what happens when you take the elixirs.

It is internal Work, Nathaniel, it's not about taking elixirs.

Meditation is also a form of alchemy since you try to raise the kundalini or secret fire, but with the meditation it takes longer and i myself experienced this with the kundalini which i did not raise it to the top of my head but half way but it is draining it feels like a liquid in your spine. it takes 100 days to raise the first lvl of the kundalini then you go on to the next stage. but with the minerals its much shorter and you can say its like the secret of the alchemist. I've experienced astral projection myself so i know what the alchemist are talking about, but i did not reach 7 d. so yea i have an small idea of what they mean. :)

I'm afraid that you have digested a lot of disinformation, Nathaniel. It is not about 'kundalini' - this is all disinformation. Perhaps if you search for the term 'kundalini' on the forum, you can find out why this is disinformation. I strongly suggest that you read Secret History of the World to clear up some of your misconceptions. It's understandable that one can be led astray with all the disinformation out there, but there is no magic elixir one can ingest to do the Great Work and there are no short cuts. It's not about new age ideas of kundalini or astral projection. Becoming familiar with the work of G.I. Gurdjieff will also help you, since his 'fusion of a singular I' and discussion about using internal heat to transform bring a lot of alchemical references to a more easily accessed intellectual level.

So what your saying is that there is no such thing as a physical elixir? So Nicolas Flamel was a liar then? and basil valentine and the other alchemist like Ge hong?

 

[Mr. Premise]

Work on the self, cleaning the machine, getting rid of buffers, fusing the magnetic center. Gurdjieff's 4th Way Work, in other words. How it's done is more complicated but a network is required. You can't do it on your own. You can't fix how you think by how you think. By "you" I mean "one," by the way. It applies to all of us, I'm not picking on "you, Nathaniel." :)

mkrnhr is right, it's in Secret History of the World.

If you read the first chapter of "le mystère des cathédrales" of Fulcanelli, and at many occasions in "demeures philosophales", it is clear that Alchemy is about internal process and those material processes are metaphors for the internal work (and give the illusion that it is a materialistic chimera for strategic enclosure). This is a simplification of course, because the material process can be used as a hint into the multidimensional aspect of the process. Le first chapters of "The Secret History of the World" is a more than recommended material on this topic.

Ok so can you explain what do you mean by internal work. and how it is done?

 

[nate]

Meditation is also a form of alchemy since you try to raise the kundalini or secret fire, but with the meditation it takes longer and i myself experienced this with the kundalini which i did not raise it to the top of my head but half way but it is draining it feels like a liquid in your spine. it takes 100 days to raise the first lvl of the kundalini then you go on to the next stage. but with the minerals its much shorter and you can say its like the secret of the alchemist. I've experienced astral projection myself so i know what the alchemist are talking about, but i did not reach 7 d. so yea i have an small idea of what they mean. :)

I'm afraid that you have digested a lot of disinformation, Nathaniel. It is not about 'kundalini' - this is all disinformation. Perhaps if you search for the term 'kundalini' on the forum, you can find out why this is disinformation. I strongly suggest that you read Secret History of the World to clear up some of your misconceptions. It's understandable that one can be led astray with all the disinformation out there, but there is no magic elixir one can ingest to do the Great Work and there are no short cuts. It's not about new age ideas of kundalini or astral projection. Becoming familiar with the work of G.I. Gurdjieff will also help you, since his 'fusion of a singular I' and discussion about using internal heat to transform bring a lot of alchemical references to a more easily accessed intellectual level.

Yes Nathaniel, one of the biggest obstacles is to be self-satisfied, we think we already know, we think we are ready to climb high mountains but we need first to be able to walk on flat.
Realy there is nothing you can do now, not untill you refuse dreaming.

How am i dreaming? i was talking about meditation and alchemy stages for meditation and for practical alchemy? So you think im just dreaming all this stuff up? I dont know if you read about alchemy but this stuff is real. And i cant prove it to anyone since you havnt experience what i experinced. alchemy is science

 

[nate]

Work on the self, cleaning the machine, getting rid of buffers, fusing the magnetic center. Gurdjieff's 4th Way Work, in other words. How it's done is more complicated but a network is required. You can't do it on your own. You can't fix how you think by how you think. By "you" I mean "one," by the way. It applies to all of us, I'm not picking on "you, Nathaniel." :)

mkrnhr is right, it's in Secret History of the World.

If you read the first chapter of "le mystère des cathédrales" of Fulcanelli, and at many occasions in "demeures philosophales", it is clear that Alchemy is about internal process and those material processes are metaphors for the internal work (and give the illusion that it is a materialistic chimera for strategic enclosure). This is a simplification of course, because the material process can be used as a hint into the multidimensional aspect of the process. Le first chapters of "The Secret History of the World" is a more than recommended material on this topic.

Ok so can you explain what do you mean by internal work. and how it is done?

Yes i've been doing breathing exercises for a long time even before i join this forum. But what happens after that? are we suppose to activate our psychic abilities? then what happens after that? To tell you the truth im just BORED! i have so much time in my hands. i dont have to worry about any bills thanks to my father and i dont have a girlfriend so i dont deal with those relationship problems which is useless. So what do i do now. How high do i have to raise my vibrations? and reading so many books is just boring..

 

[Mr. Premise]

One way you're dreaming is by saying (in another thread) that there is nothing to learn in 3D but paying taxes. If we all didn't have lessons to learn here in 3D STS we wouldn't be here, it's that simple. Remember Gurdjieff's tale of the sorceror who hypnotized his sheep so he could get food and skins for parchment. Some of them he hypnotized into thinking there were magicians.

There are a thousand things which prevent a man from awakening, which keep him in the power of his dreams. In order to act consciously with the intention of awakening, it is necessary to know the nature of the forces which keep man in a state of sleep.

First of all it must be realized that the sleep in which man exists is not normal but hypnotic sleep. Man is hypnotized and this hypnotic state is continually maintained and strengthened in him. One would think that there are forces for whom it is useful and profitable to keep man in a hypnotic state and prevent him from seeing the truth and understanding his position.

There is an Eastern tale which speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where his sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines, and so on, and above all they ran away, for they knew that the magician wanted their flesh and skins and this they did not like.

At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it.

Further the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians.

"And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins. "This tale is a very good illustration of man's position.

Source - from Ouspensky Book "In search of Miraculous"

Meditation is also a form of alchemy since you try to raise the kundalini or secret fire, but with the meditation it takes longer and i myself experienced this with the kundalini which i did not raise it to the top of my head but half way but it is draining it feels like a liquid in your spine. it takes 100 days to raise the first lvl of the kundalini then you go on to the next stage. but with the minerals its much shorter and you can say its like the secret of the alchemist. I've experienced astral projection myself so i know what the alchemist are talking about, but i did not reach 7 d. so yea i have an small idea of what they mean. :)

I'm afraid that you have digested a lot of disinformation, Nathaniel. It is not about 'kundalini' - this is all disinformation. Perhaps if you search for the term 'kundalini' on the forum, you can find out why this is disinformation. I strongly suggest that you read Secret History of the World to clear up some of your misconceptions. It's understandable that one can be led astray with all the disinformation out there, but there is no magic elixir one can ingest to do the Great Work and there are no short cuts. It's not about new age ideas of kundalini or astral projection. Becoming familiar with the work of G.I. Gurdjieff will also help you, since his 'fusion of a singular I' and discussion about using internal heat to transform bring a lot of alchemical references to a more easily accessed intellectual level.

Yes Nathaniel, one of the biggest obstacles is to be self-satisfied, we think we already know, we think we are ready to climb high mountains but we need first to be able to walk on flat.
Realy there is nothing you can do now, not untill you refuse dreaming.

How am i dreaming? i was talking about meditation and alchemy stages for meditation and for practical alchemy? So you think im just dreaming all this stuff up? I dont know if you read about alchemy but this stuff is real. And i cant prove it to anyone since you havnt experience what i experinced. alchemy is science

 

[agni]

Hi Nathaniel,

How am i dreaming? i was talking about meditation and alchemy stages for meditation and for practical alchemy? So you think im just dreaming all this stuff up? I dont know if you read about alchemy but this stuff is real. And i cant prove it to anyone since you havnt experience what i experinced.

I believe you have answered yourself :)

[quote author=Nathaniel] alchemy is science [/quote]

You might want to contemplate what Science is.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Fulcanelli and Gurdjieff

If you read the first chapter of "le mystère des cathédrales" of Fulcanelli, and at many occasions in "demeures philosophales", it is clear that Alchemy is about internal process and those material processes are metaphors for the internal work (and give the illusion that it is a materialistic chimera for strategic enclosure). This is a simplification of course, because the material process can be used as a hint into the multidimensional aspect of the process. Le first chapters of "The Secret History of the World" is a more than recommended material on this topic.

Ok so can you explain what do you mean by internal work. and how it is done?

Here's my short explanation, but I'm sure others might be able to explain it better:

The thing is that you and everyone else have been experiencing traumas. Traumas you maybe do not even remember. And then there are the traumas and pain etc. you experienced in your previous lives, if reincarnation exists, which is a high probability we think. Then there is the poison everywhere, in the air, in the food, in your home, at your workplace etc.
Your body and soul are pretty much toxified and hurt. And these things have an influence on our lives, mostly, without us even knowing it. A part of this work is to deal with these issues and scars.
The C's have said that all there is is lessons. And I think that we are here to live Life and to learn from it.

The internal work focuses on working on yourself. The goal is to have yourself under your own control. If you read "In Search of the Miraculous" (about Gurdjieff's teachings) you will understand this better. You also would be needing to make some diet changes first, before you can do the Work (internal work) properly, since some of your actions could be because of a toxic body. Understanding yourself is just as important as cleansing it, which goes through the internal work as well (I think), but most importantly through the EE breathing and meditation program.

You do the internal work by doing observations in your daily life, writing journals, gaining knowledge and networking here (for example). And with daily life I mean at your workplace, your home, your interactions with others; every moment. So the internal work is not about elixirs, it's about the here and now; your life.
And maybe doing this work will cause some chemical and biological changes in us.

I don't think taking elixirs would be the way to go. It would be escaping the 3d STS life. Are we here to escape it or to experience it?
Also remember how knowledge can be interpreted wrongly or shared wrongly by others. Only objective research can show us the way.

And as the C's have said:

A: Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep
are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some
people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out.
For those individuals, the worlds will cease. They will become exactly what
they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the "past." People who
pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the
"Future."

I think that when you start with reading the recommended books that are mentioned in this thread, you will come to a whole new realization!

 

[Mr. Premise]

It sounds like what you are looking for is stimulation, amusement, or excitement, not Truth.

And from what you describe here about your life, you are not at the point where 4th way work can be undertaken. You can search on the concept of 'Obyvatel' for more on that.

What is hard for the rest of us is that you ask questions, but when the answers you are given either require effort on your part in some other direction than where you want to apply it, or don't sound exciting enough, you dismiss them. For example you replied to the suggestion that internal work meant "Work on the self, cleaning the machine, getting rid of buffers, fusing the magnetic center" with saying you already did breathing work and you were bored.

Do you really think it would be good for you or your soul to get those powers you are seeking before your machine is ready to handle them?

Yes i've been doing breathing exercises for a long time even before i join this forum. But what happens after that? are we suppose to activate our psychic abilities? then what happens after that? To tell you the truth im just BORED! i have so much time in my hands. i dont have to worry about any bills thanks to my father and i dont have a girlfriend so i dont deal with those relationship problems which is useless. So what do i do now. How high do i have to raise my vibrations? and reading so many books is just boring..

 

[nate]

It sounds like what you are looking for is stimulation, amusement, or excitement, not Truth.

And from what you describe here about your life, you are not at the point where 4th way work can be undertaken. You can search on the concept of 'Obyvatel' for more on that.

What is hard for the rest of us is that you ask questions, but when the answers you are given either require effort on your part in some other direction than where you want to apply it, or don't sound exciting enough, you dismiss them. For example you replied to the suggestion that internal work meant "Work on the self, cleaning the machine, getting rid of buffers, fusing the magnetic center" with saying you already did breathing work and you were bored.

Do you really think it would be good for you or your soul to get those powers you are seeking before your machine is ready to handle them?

Yes i've been doing breathing exercises for a long time even before i join this forum. But what happens after that? are we suppose to activate our psychic abilities? then what happens after that? To tell you the truth im just BORED! i have so much time in my hands. i dont have to worry about any bills thanks to my father and i dont have a girlfriend so i dont deal with those relationship problems which is useless. So what do i do now. How high do i have to raise my vibrations? and reading so many books is just boring..

So when is the machine ready? And how long does it take?

 

[Mr. Premise]

I don't know, I'm not there yet!

I'm sure it varies by person. It could take years or it could take many lifetimes, I think.

The Cs said that EE can speed up the process, though, so that's good news.

So when is the machine ready? And how long does it take?

 

[nate]

I don't know, I'm not there yet!

I'm sure it varies by person. It could take years or it could take many lifetimes, I think.

The Cs said that EE can speed up the process, though, so that's good news.

So when is the machine ready? And how long does it take?

It also depends on how long you practice each day. One thing i still dont know is how high are we suppose to raise our vibrations or energy for this forth way work that you talk about?

 

[anart]

It also depends on how long you practice each day. One thing i still dont know is how high are we suppose to raise our vibrations or energy for this forth way work that you talk about?

Nathaniel, no one can hand this to you on a platter. You have to do the work to learn what it is you need to learn to progress. You have to. There is no other way. There are no short cuts. If you can't even bother to read Secret History of the World to get the background information necessary to begin to actually prepare to practice alchemy, then it is not for you. If you are that uninterested in actually progressing that it is not worth putting in time and effort reading and learning, if you are that lazy and unmotivated, then you would likely be better off finding something that does interest you and doing that.

This is not a game, it is not a hobby, it is a life's work. If you are not ready to begin it, you are not ready to begin it - there is nothing objectively wrong with that. Perhaps finding another forum and other information that does interest you might be a good idea?

 

[nate]

It also depends on how long you practice each day. One thing i still dont know is how high are we suppose to raise our vibrations or energy for this forth way work that you talk about?

Nathaniel, no one can hand this to you on a platter. You have to do the work to learn what it is you need to learn to progress. You have to. There is no other way. There are no short cuts. If you can't even bother to read Secret History of the World to get the background information necessary to begin to actually prepare to practice alchemy, then it is not for you. If you are that uninterested in actually progressing that it is not worth putting in time and effort reading and learning, if you are that lazy and unmotivated, then you would likely be better off finding something that does interest you and doing that.

This is not a game, it is not a hobby, it is a life's work. If you are not ready to begin it, you are not ready to begin it - there is nothing objectively wrong with that. Perhaps finding another forum and other information that does interest you might be a good idea?

It is not that im am uninterested in actually progressing. And no i am not lazy and unmotivated. And you speak about alchemy but yet you call basil and flamel and kamala liars about the red stone. Saying that there is no such thing as an elixir which cures all illnesses from the body and mind. well im leave it at that . May i ask to have my account deleted. thanks.

 

[Mr. Premise]

I don't know, I'm not there yet!

I'm sure it varies by person. It could take years or it could take many lifetimes, I think.

The Cs said that EE can speed up the process, though, so that's good news.

So when is the machine ready? And how long does it take?

It also depends on how long you practice each day. One thing i still dont know is how high are we suppose to raise our vibrations or energy for this forth way work that you talk about?

The 4th Way work is where you begin. "Raised vibrations" would happen later. According to Gurdjieff, before we fuse the magnetic center and have a real "I" we can't actually Do anything, let alone raise our vibrations. That's just dreaming that we are actually awake.