gallbladder removal

Wouldn't the Ursodiol at least decrease the size of the gallstone slowly over time and lessen the risk that it will block the bile duct again? That may be beneficial, even if your doctor thinks the stone is "too big" for that.

https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a699047.html Since it is simply a bile acid produced naturally in the gall bladder, I would think the side effects would be minimal.

I also read putting lemon in your water 2-3 times a day helps to shrink stones, couldn't hurt anyway. Best of luck, Bear!
 
Thanks Lilou. I'm going to see the holistic doctor at least once more, probably after the new year, and run what brought up by him. He didn't know much about Ursodiol other than it has been used to reduce the size of gall stones, since nowadays they just take out the gall bladder when problems arise. I'll read up on it more, but do remember from the research that I did that it can take being on Ursodiol for a considerable amount of time, like years, to reduce the gall stones, so will probably take even longer for the size of stone I have.

I'd do the lemon thing, yet it is one thing I'm supposed to have an allergy to even if I never noticed a problem with it before this antibody assessment test was done - http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,41090.msg636570.html#msg636570
 
Actually decreasing the size of the stone can increase the risk of the stone getting stuck in the duct as it "fits" better into the duct. I am not sure what the best way forward is - a stone stuck in the duct requires emergency surgery and there is the risk of acute pancreatitis, which can be quite nasty. I don't have any experience with dissolution of stones, so finding someone with expertise in that surely would be helpful, otherwise an operation might be the safest long-term option.
 
You might also look into using ultrasound in combination with the Ursodiol to break up the stone.

http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/tc/gallstones-other-treatment
This procedure uses ultrasound waves to break up gallstones. It may be used alone or along with bile acids to break up stones. The procedure, which is now rarely performed, has been used for people who have long-term (chronic) inflammation of the gallbladder (cholecystitis) and who are not strong enough for surgery.
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Or someone who wants to keep their gallbladder! :P You may try google'ing around for practitioners who still use this procedure.
 
nicklebleu said:
Actually decreasing the size of the stone can increase the risk of the stone getting stuck in the duct as it "fits" better into the duct. I am not sure what the best way forward is - a stone stuck in the duct requires emergency surgery and there is the risk of acute pancreatitis, which can be quite nasty. I don't have any experience with dissolution of stones, so finding someone with expertise in that surely would be helpful, otherwise an operation might be the safest long-term option.
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That is also what I thought, from a non medical perspective. If your stone is smaller, the risk of it getting stuck increases, until the point is reached where it is to small to stuck in there. So I dunno if it is possible to remove that thing properly, without damaging the surrounding tissue to much. If it is possible, I would definitely consider it to be removed and from then on pay extra attention to your well being and health, especially in the food intake department, so that other stones will not build up in the future.

Getting that thing stuck is extremely painfull. My mother went trough that and she surely isn't a person that easily complains about pain, but this one was very extreme and she had to call the ambulance and it was removed. Later they also removed her gallbladder, which I wasn't very happy about.
 
Hi Bear,
I wonder if you managed to keep your gall blader. A friend must have his gall blader removed (many times had pain crisis, multiple stones on echography), so i wonder if it's possible to avoid surgery with alternative methods.
 
nature said:
Hi Bear,
I wonder if you managed to keep your gall blader. A friend must have his gall blader removed (many times had pain crisis, multiple stones on echography), so i wonder if it's possible to avoid surgery with alternative methods.
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I still have my gall bladder. I had found too much fat in my diet and/or too much coffee in combination with the fat caused me problems, so I reduced it. It still bothers me at times, but nowhere near the issues I was having.

I found a naturopath at the end of Feb, prior to leaving on a trip, that has a protocol to eliminate gall stones. When I return home I'm going to make an appointment with her and start the protocol. I think she said it might take like two months to full eliminate the large gall stone I have. I'll post about the protocol after I meet with her. It involves the 'stone breaker' herb chanca piedra and some other things I don't remember off hand.

I'd recommend that your friend call around to various naturopaths and other alternative health care provider in his/her area to see if they have treatment options or protocols other than surgery.

This isn't the first naturopath I'm seeing about it. The first one I've come to realize didn't really know what she was doing in terms of reducing or eliminating the stone.
 
Thank you for your response, Bear!
Last year, I searched for chanca piedra, when I read about it on sott (or elsewhere, I don't remember) and didn't managed to find it.
In my research I read that magnesium can help too, in association with lecithine (ie phosphatidyl-choline) and taurine. Curcumine is usefull to decrease inflammation of the gall bladder's wall (associated in symptomatic gallstones). Glutathion to support the liver.
So, I've found many info, but the friend is scheduled for surgery as he had awfull pain, but he is not inclined to undergo it and asked me if I know alternatives. Currently, he's not painfull.
Do you know a means for pain during these crisis?
And thank you for sharing your info :)
 
nature said:
Do you know a means for pain during these crisis?
And thank you for sharing your info :)
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No, I don't know anything specific about reducing the pain.
 
Nature, gall stones aren't fun and I struggled with mine for quite some time but managed to save my gall bladder with various supplements and other things. I used the chanca piedra which you can buy in pill form or extract, malic acid, castor oil packs, lecithin and liver flushes. I have been dealing with other health issues that I feel made things more difficult for me but I'd definitely say it is worth trying the alternative methods before going for surgery.

Some of my stones were the size of gumballs so even though the pain can be scary these things can come through. It's important to stay well hydrated and for those times when things were really blocked up in there I relied on epsom salts, castor oil packs and coffee enemas to get things moving along. It's not an easy process but it can be done. Malic acid can help with the pain but pain killers are almost necessary. I used naproxen for awhile then switched to an herb called kratom because it seemed like a safer option and I didnt find anything that suggested it was bad for the liver.
 
Thank you Drea! And congrat for your success!
I'll give these valuable info to my friend. I think that IV magnesium sulfat can help a lot though it's something to which doctors and even naturopaths don't think. You used epsom salt, it's sulfate magnesium :) ; combined to products that dissolve the stones and to products that detox, we have a winner team :-)

Magnesium makes sphinters relax (thus facilitates stones expulsion I think), and is antagoniste of calcium (stones). Moreover, sulfate is important in cholesterol metabolism. I haven't find info on Mercola's or Dr Dean's or Dr Seneff or N. Gedgaudas' websites. I've forgotten pubmed. I'll have a look!
While searching for chanca piedra, I learned that this plant is the same family as tamarind, something I can find at the market (tamarind fruit).

I think thats doctors should, when a patient comes to emergency room with a colic of gallblader lithiasis or of a kidney stone, he should hospitalize the patient and give stone dissolving remedies (chanca piedra, plus lecithine for gallblader, etc) + muscle relaxant (IV Mg SO4) + taurine (helps balance Mg/Ca) + anti-inflam (curcumin or other) + detox (vit C IV high dose, castor oil as you mentionned, and coffee enema will be easier at hospital) + glutathion or NAC for supporting liver. And even IR light therapy can be helpfull. Plus keto diet for a while. There is so much to do!
And if a stone is getting stucked in the excretory canal, then surgery. At least, the patient is in the hospital and pain killers can be given immediately and by infusion, and surgery can be performed in case of side effect that could make surgery unavoidable.
And in the orher hand, the patient is given the chance to heal without undergoing surgery.

Thank you again for your post :-) , you gave me info about 2 other products I ignored: kratom and malic acid. I'll have a look to them too.
 
PS: Drea, did your ultrasound exam showed the dissapearing of your stones? completely? If yes, did it encourage the doctor to use this protocol more often? I ask because i worked in hospital and it's allways disturbing to learn (on forums!*) about other knowledge, other procedures safer and more respectful of the patient's integrity (when it's possible).
* the importance of networking, ;-) to the Cs. Thank you so much to all of you.
 
Nature, it sounds like you have a good understanding of what to do, though I would not recommend a ketogenic diet while someone has stones because it creates bile pressure. I ate fatty meals only when I planned to take something to relax the ducts or the pressure would be unbearable. So, eat fat only when you're ready to push stones through which is the purpose of drinking olive oil when you do the flushes. A low carb diet with lean meats is best while dealing with the problem.

My ultrasound showed 2 small "floating" stones which made me realize how faulty ultrasounds are. I passed hundreds of stones and it might have been that mine were mostly soft and that could have been why they didn't show up. I havent talked to my doctor since but I did tell her I was going to go the natural route to get rid of them and thankfully she was more open minded and agreed with my decision. If my original ultrasound only showed 2 stones then I doubt that it would show anything now. The pain I would experience when eating fat has gone away and I can now eat high fat foods without much problem. It's possible I have some sludge remaining in the liver but for the most part the problems are gone.

I dont think that having a stone stuck in the ducts should automatically lead to surgery. I had them stuck a few times and was able to get them through. I had read that people have passed stones the size of golf balls so it's just a matter of loosening up that duct to get them through. Sometimes I'd lay in bed with a castor oil pack over the liver area and place a tennis ball under my back where the gallbladder was and let the muscles squeeze the stuck stone through. I realized too that gas+bloating can make it a lot harder to get rid of the stones because the muscles in the abdomen are dealing with the gas pressure on top of the liver pressure so things won't come through as easy. Keeping the gut in order will help a lot and probiotic enemas are a good idea too.

I wish you and your friend the best, Nature. Your friend is lucky to have someone looking out for them!
 
Thank you Drea for these advices. I convey them to my friend. He's far from where I live and works a lot, so I can't really take care of him. I gave him the infos by phone. I hope he'll have time and willpower to get the products. I'll see.
Anyways, these informations on this thread can be usefull for others.
 
Acupuncture.

Acupuncturists have a treatment witch made the body react and evacuate stones. I guess stones must be not too big but I witness by myself the effectiveness of the treatment on a patient.
 
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