truth seeker
The Living Force
Just finished reading this last night and found it extremely helpful. As others said, it not only helps with seeing others but seeing the self as well. Many thanks for the suggestion.
George Simon: Character Disturbance
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
mcb
The Living Force
Helpful indeed. I haven't yet finished reading it but I am close. And my 'personality style' was a surprise.
I like the way the author breaks down the different kinds of 'disturbances.' It seems to go well with actual observation. I am less clear about the neurotic types. While I could find myself in there easily enough, the distinctions weren't as clear to me. Maybe I am not seeing something.
I like the way the author breaks down the different kinds of 'disturbances.' It seems to go well with actual observation. I am less clear about the neurotic types. While I could find myself in there easily enough, the distinctions weren't as clear to me. Maybe I am not seeing something.
Psalehesost
The Living Force
After earlier reading the big 5 narcissism books, this book is useful to me in correcting a skewed perspective. All those discussions and references to that psychological material on the forum and the way it has been emphasized gave something of a narrow focus, trying and trying to see my own issues in the context of the kind of essentially neurotic issues that were described.
Sure, there's such to be found in my case - as in the case of most here - but part of what holds (and, even more, held) me back is simply bad attitude - apart from the more severely character disturbed described by George Simon, I'm sure there's quite a few who (like me) are simply a bit lazy, and/or consider themselves entitled at some level, and/or have some other narcissistic attitudes - and in reading through this book, various points hit home - helping me see that my own character, while not altogether rotten, is not nearly as good as I considered it to be.
In addition, of course, it helps with better understanding the mindsets behind crazy goings-on such as these involving seriously disturbed characters.
Sure, there's such to be found in my case - as in the case of most here - but part of what holds (and, even more, held) me back is simply bad attitude - apart from the more severely character disturbed described by George Simon, I'm sure there's quite a few who (like me) are simply a bit lazy, and/or consider themselves entitled at some level, and/or have some other narcissistic attitudes - and in reading through this book, various points hit home - helping me see that my own character, while not altogether rotten, is not nearly as good as I considered it to be.
In addition, of course, it helps with better understanding the mindsets behind crazy goings-on such as these involving seriously disturbed characters.
G
Gertrudes
Guest
Just want to echo others' sentiments on the importance of this book. I am nearly finishing and have found it, so far, the book that most helped me understand what really is going on on both a disturbed character's inner landscape, as well as a neurotic's. Perhaps at this moment I can simply understand this whole issue better, I don't know, either due to the book, my state of mind, or both, truth is that this book is being one of the most crucial readings I have made.
In fact, it has on several occasions left me fuming with pure, unadulterated anger! It was a good exercise in self containment as I can't simply throw a book against a wall while I'm on the tube (underground), but I can still discretely clench my teeth...
It simply describes to perfection a character that has strongly weighted in my life - my brother. Honestly, if people who are either normal or more on the neurotic side of the scale would read it, they would not only gain, through knowledge and understanding, a strong defense against abusive people, but also against themselves and a possible preponderance to neurotic behavior.
This is a fundamental book to help us understand the dichotomy of neuroticism versus character disorder, and where the difference really lies. My guess is that mostly everyone has a little bit of both, lying somewhere in the middle, whilst some people with greater disturbaces will tend to pend to the extreme of either side of the scale.
I found the writing style to be very clear and straight forward, providing the reader with a well defined, unambiguous message.
Completely agree.
In fact, it has on several occasions left me fuming with pure, unadulterated anger! It was a good exercise in self containment as I can't simply throw a book against a wall while I'm on the tube (underground), but I can still discretely clench my teeth...
It simply describes to perfection a character that has strongly weighted in my life - my brother. Honestly, if people who are either normal or more on the neurotic side of the scale would read it, they would not only gain, through knowledge and understanding, a strong defense against abusive people, but also against themselves and a possible preponderance to neurotic behavior.
This is a fundamental book to help us understand the dichotomy of neuroticism versus character disorder, and where the difference really lies. My guess is that mostly everyone has a little bit of both, lying somewhere in the middle, whilst some people with greater disturbaces will tend to pend to the extreme of either side of the scale.
I found the writing style to be very clear and straight forward, providing the reader with a well defined, unambiguous message.
Psalehesost said:
Completely agree.
G
Gertrudes
Guest
Shijing said:
I have already reviewed it on amazon :)
Paragon
Jedi Council Member
Thanks for the suggestion Laura!
This is a fantastic book, only halfway though it and I've already benefited from the material!
It really helps one in a nuts and bolts way to observe pathological thinking and behaviour in the self and others. So in this regard, it's very helpful to those who struggle to connect the psychological with the esoteric, in day to day life.
The descriptions of neurotic and character disturbed individuals are gold in trying to work out my own thought processes and how to steer my way towards becoming a better person. It's straightforward and accessible, especially if you have been reading most of the material provided here.
A 'must buy', IMO :)
Edit- Added thanks
This is a fantastic book, only halfway though it and I've already benefited from the material!
It really helps one in a nuts and bolts way to observe pathological thinking and behaviour in the self and others. So in this regard, it's very helpful to those who struggle to connect the psychological with the esoteric, in day to day life.
The descriptions of neurotic and character disturbed individuals are gold in trying to work out my own thought processes and how to steer my way towards becoming a better person. It's straightforward and accessible, especially if you have been reading most of the material provided here.
A 'must buy', IMO :)
Edit- Added thanks
SovereignDove
Jedi
Laura said:
When I read 'Character Disturbance' I did not read the thread first, and I missed this important point Laura makes here about Adult Children of Alcoholics. I should have read ACOC first(having realized that all of the traits have been present at some point in my life), but I did not learn about that book until months after reading 'Character Disturbance'. When I read 'Character Disturbance' I could relate some traits to myself in many of the neurotic, disordered, and disturbed characters(although not matching any kind of checklist in full), and ended up confused and thinking I was disturbed.
I am sharing my experience with these two books so that maybe another person reading these won't go through the same confusion. Thinking I could be disturbed, I then stopped reading on the forum, doubting any ability to do the work because of being possibly pathological. After a few months I started reading and going on the forum again, and made some progress in identifying potential programs/traits/areas to work on.
Overall, 'Character Disturbance' is a great resource for understanding pathology. After my lack of knowledge when reading it the first time, and what that led to, I think I will need to re read this book.
For this week's MindMatters show we had a chance to talk with George Simon, and what a nice discussion it was! In addition to getting to delve into his work, we heard a good many of his own personal insights, pearls of wisdom and some of the conclusions he's come to about his research and his own learning and growth - which were all on great display. We hope that a lot of us get to listen to it and get something out of what was a great interview to start this new (and inherently challenging) year.
MindMatters: Dr. George Simon: The Character Disturbance Epidemic and What We Can Do About It
I just saw the alert on youtube and I'm really looking forward to watching this! George Simon is one of my favorite authors on the recommended reading list, thanks guys
Maya
Jedi Master
Great book. Since I liked the 'narcissism big 5' this one would be useful to go even deeper. And thanks @Anthony for mentioning the new one. I just ordered both.
As I read Laura's opening list of major thinking errors in disturbed characters I recognized myself in a few. But thankfuly not the present me - but me from few years ago. Although sincerily there is always space for improvement. Devil is in details, right ? The thing that concerns me most is my struggle because my husband has 15/21 errors listed above. And the part that I realised red flag before my eyes only 3 years ego. We are married for 15. Now I'm stuck what to do/ how to do it. But first I must go deeper to make sure I' m not crazy. Huh. Thank you all
As I read Laura's opening list of major thinking errors in disturbed characters I recognized myself in a few. But thankfuly not the present me - but me from few years ago. Although sincerily there is always space for improvement. Devil is in details, right ? The thing that concerns me most is my struggle because my husband has 15/21 errors listed above. And the part that I realised red flag before my eyes only 3 years ego. We are married for 15. Now I'm stuck what to do/ how to do it. But first I must go deeper to make sure I' m not crazy. Huh. Thank you all
Maya
Jedi Master
This book it's not only eye opener ( + with 'In sheeps clothing' as well )
It is a slap in the face for us who needed it to come to realization who are we dealing with.
I am having my doubts about my husband for years now. Many years ago some little red flags wich,
ofcours I didn't see back then when I raelly should.
Because I was so masterfully manipulated and gaslighted and busy with surviving.
Heavy physical work and stress made me just want to rest, sleep and ignore anything that would bring more pain and anixiety.
And through years many recomended books here ( Narcissism big 5 ) didn't ring any bell because I was reading them concentrated
about myself - my flaws, my traits, my coping mechanisms. Basicly how can I fix and improve myself.
And besides being very naive, submisive, inable to say no to anyone, lying to myself, have got no healthy boundaries and sometimes
wanted to be in center of attention + little gossiping - I didn't found anything thats much worse about me.
I realized that I basicaly f****d up ( myself or someone else ) in different situations in life not by intention but
because of my inability to see the big picture right away and to accept that peoples cappability of lying, hurting and exploating others exists and it's BIG.
Had a role of usefull idiot too many times until it hit me that my ignorance and stupidity is a some kind of vector for
much worse BS.
Especcially when it comes to our loved once. And then I was so overwhelmed with shame and self disgust I could barely function.
I grow up with narcissist father and it took me forever to address and accept his behaviour. And that it is unreparable.
Always thought I'm the main problem. And only if I could be more tolerant, loving, serving or etc...thing will be better.
And now it took me 15 years to realize I married the same person.
Only more covert tipe and with more passive agressive style.
But our mind normalize and give us impression of love for whatever is close and familiar no matter how destructive it is.
Now I see that. And I was lucky that our life circumstances sober me up and showed me his true colors.
Our dinamics drasticaly changed when I hit the rock bottom when was sick, without job and money and with
possible enforcement over our head.
I was just fed up with childish, selfserving, irresponsible and stupid behaviour and then I confronted him for the first time.
Said that from now on thing must be different or I'm out of the picture with our child for good.
Didn't know then that the narcissist would make any kind of show to persuede and to make impression he would
really change his heart to make things better.
Acctually, I did know that in theory but in that moment I didn't see him like one yet.
But during next 3 years I had a lot of my 'aha moments' and realized nothing would really change.
But by standing up for myself by fixing some very straight rules, limits and expectations I saved myself.
That time I just knew I had to do it like that to bring back some balance and gain some power so he could not ruin me comepletely.
It was like instinctive ack of survival ( and ofcorse I was struggling because I saw it like selfish and completly STS act )
And If there wasn't a list of thinking errors so nice and detailed elaborated in this book -
I would still be blind before my eyes and tormented by conscience cause what if I did something wrong ?!
Also responsibility resistance tactics, impression menagement and acting out. Just wow.
Now I know I'm not crazy and it's not 'all in my head'.
I evolved bit by bit from passive dependant to assertive independant by going out in the world,
finding a job, ( I'm not a housewife for 3 years now), fighting my insecurities, learning, being honest to myself,
putting myself into the fire so to say - in every situation. Besause it's right thing to do and I wanted to prove
my child (and myself ) I can.
Cause I lost too many years of life being codepedendent and no existing for who I really am.
So, dr Simon's work is something that sort of sums up everything whats been going on intensively in my life last few years
but I couldn't put in words correctly and precisely.
I also love '10 commandments of character' from the book - I printed it out for my 15 yr doughter.
And in one blog dr Simon said 'The good character is like psychological immune system'
'Essentials for the journey' next.
I'm so grateful for finding dr Simon's work, thank you all for great input
It is a slap in the face for us who needed it to come to realization who are we dealing with.
I am having my doubts about my husband for years now. Many years ago some little red flags wich,
ofcours I didn't see back then when I raelly should.
Because I was so masterfully manipulated and gaslighted and busy with surviving.
Heavy physical work and stress made me just want to rest, sleep and ignore anything that would bring more pain and anixiety.
And through years many recomended books here ( Narcissism big 5 ) didn't ring any bell because I was reading them concentrated
about myself - my flaws, my traits, my coping mechanisms. Basicly how can I fix and improve myself.
And besides being very naive, submisive, inable to say no to anyone, lying to myself, have got no healthy boundaries and sometimes
wanted to be in center of attention + little gossiping - I didn't found anything thats much worse about me.
I realized that I basicaly f****d up ( myself or someone else ) in different situations in life not by intention but
because of my inability to see the big picture right away and to accept that peoples cappability of lying, hurting and exploating others exists and it's BIG.
Had a role of usefull idiot too many times until it hit me that my ignorance and stupidity is a some kind of vector for
much worse BS.
Especcially when it comes to our loved once. And then I was so overwhelmed with shame and self disgust I could barely function.
I grow up with narcissist father and it took me forever to address and accept his behaviour. And that it is unreparable.
Always thought I'm the main problem. And only if I could be more tolerant, loving, serving or etc...thing will be better.
And now it took me 15 years to realize I married the same person.
Only more covert tipe and with more passive agressive style.
But our mind normalize and give us impression of love for whatever is close and familiar no matter how destructive it is.
Now I see that. And I was lucky that our life circumstances sober me up and showed me his true colors.
Our dinamics drasticaly changed when I hit the rock bottom when was sick, without job and money and with
possible enforcement over our head.
I was just fed up with childish, selfserving, irresponsible and stupid behaviour and then I confronted him for the first time.
Said that from now on thing must be different or I'm out of the picture with our child for good.
Didn't know then that the narcissist would make any kind of show to persuede and to make impression he would
really change his heart to make things better.
Acctually, I did know that in theory but in that moment I didn't see him like one yet.
But during next 3 years I had a lot of my 'aha moments' and realized nothing would really change.
But by standing up for myself by fixing some very straight rules, limits and expectations I saved myself.
That time I just knew I had to do it like that to bring back some balance and gain some power so he could not ruin me comepletely.
It was like instinctive ack of survival ( and ofcorse I was struggling because I saw it like selfish and completly STS act )
And If there wasn't a list of thinking errors so nice and detailed elaborated in this book -
I would still be blind before my eyes and tormented by conscience cause what if I did something wrong ?!
Also responsibility resistance tactics, impression menagement and acting out. Just wow.
Now I know I'm not crazy and it's not 'all in my head'.
I evolved bit by bit from passive dependant to assertive independant by going out in the world,
finding a job, ( I'm not a housewife for 3 years now), fighting my insecurities, learning, being honest to myself,
putting myself into the fire so to say - in every situation. Besause it's right thing to do and I wanted to prove
my child (and myself ) I can.
Cause I lost too many years of life being codepedendent and no existing for who I really am.
So, dr Simon's work is something that sort of sums up everything whats been going on intensively in my life last few years
but I couldn't put in words correctly and precisely.
I also love '10 commandments of character' from the book - I printed it out for my 15 yr doughter.
And in one blog dr Simon said 'The good character is like psychological immune system'
'Essentials for the journey' next.
I'm so grateful for finding dr Simon's work, thank you all for great input
