getting rid of fleas

[JonnyRadar]

well, i just raked up the straw from the kennel and i'm pretty sure that's where they came from. it was all damp and on it's way to rotting under the surface. since cedar oil was one of the options for natural prevention in the material April provided, i think i'll lay down cedar chips (it's about a 8'x15' space) after completely removing the straw to take care of the outdoor situation... perhaps some black weed-cloth under the chips would keep them from rotting before too long?

hopefully others can learn from this thread as well. i know with comets and war and economic collapse, a little flea problem seems pretty inconsequential, but i highly suggest anyone with pets take preventative measures early on so you don't have to learn these lessons on your own! i am also going to be much more careful from now on regarding the chemicals/toxins i use on and around the animals and myself. this has been quite a learning experience.

 

[Nienna]

Cedar chips do work, but all that I have read on them says that they should be inside of some kind of material - like burlap - as the oil is very irritating to the skin if it comes in contact with it and can cause a lot of discomfort.

fwiw

 

[Laura]

I just want to re-emphasize the daily vacuuming and throwing out the bag. In FL, we had horrendous flea problems and with everything else we did, it took daily vacuuming for about a month to make sure.

 

[Z...]

Neem oil also seems efficient as far as parasites control is concerned :
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=5687.msg40355#msg40355

No it is not, on its own.

While Neem extract seems to be excellent de-wormer in cattle (according to researchers in Pakistan and India) and also great mosquito repellent, it does not do much for fleas
Once you kill the fleas with something else ( good natural product I wholeheartedly recommend is Diatomaceous Earth) then you can use it as a repellent, although I am not sure how efficient it is. But on its own - Neem wont do anything in big flea infestation. This is proven and tested.

On the other hand Neem seems to be very efficient in soothing the eczema conditions both in humans and dogs.

Never use neem or any other essential oils on cats !

 

[Pierre]

Neem oil also seems efficient as far as parasites control is concerned :
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=5687.msg40355#msg40355

No it is not, on its own.

Sorry.

From your post about neem being an efficient parasite control oil I thought it applied to any parasites (including fleas).

Thanks for clarifying this point.

 

[JonnyRadar]

thanks again for all the information everyone has provided. i have been vacuuming daily and except for one or two that i've seen, they seem to be under control now. i will keep doing the daily cleaning as well as 20 mule-team borax on the carpets every four/five days to make sure.

thanks to the information provided in this thread, i've decided to not use the chemical treatments on the pets anymore, nor in their environments. i didn't know the full scope of the dangers of some of those chemical treatments! so i picked up some essential oils today (eucalyptus, cedarwood, geranium and patchouli) as recommended by several natural-remedy websites to use for insect/pest repellents. as soon as i can i will also be picking up some citronella, lemongrass and fennelseed oils. a couple different sources cite these oils as preventative measures, but not effective for large-scale extermination. my dog will smell like a dirty hippy, but there you go... ;D

so far (now that the majority of the mature ones are gone) the best course seems to be to keep the carpets cleaned up on a constant basis, and to treat the dog with the oils and the cat with garlic and/or vitamin B1 for when they go outdoors. haven't tried the apple cider vinegar in their water yet, but i'm not sure they'll be down with that...

Cedar chips do work, but all that I have read on them says that they should be inside of some kind of material - like burlap - as the oil is very irritating to the skin if it comes in contact with it and can cause a lot of discomfort.

makes sense... looks like cedar dog beds are pretty common. no idea! that would work perfectly as i was just looking for something in the dog's house (in the kennel) to keep her off the wood floor as the weather gets colder. that was the original intent of the straw, but whoooa backfire! :O

ever use neem or any other essential oils on cats !

why is that? i'm guessing it has to do with the sensitivity of their skin, but perhaps a more-diluted solution would work for a cat? i certainly don't want to burn or irritate his skin.

 

[Z...]

why is that? i'm guessing it has to do with the sensitivity of their skin, but perhaps a more-diluted solution would work for a cat? i certainly don't want to burn or irritate his skin.

here is why...

Cat owners take special note:
Cats should not be given any essential oils, period. The use of essential oils with cats is a potentially volatile combination. Cats do not efficiently metabolize essential oils and their use can lead to symptoms of toxicity. In addition to essential oils, cats have known metabolic sensitivities to certain herbal preparations and allopathic medications. Because the cat's body does not efficiently excrete essential oils, they can build up to toxic levels. Symptoms of toxicity include vomiting, dizziness, clumsiness, lack of appetite, lack of energy and shock. In addition, cats have very thin, delicate skin. Essential oils are absorbed rapidly into their skin and enter the bloodstream, overwhelming their systems. Cats dislike strong odors and generally keep away from strong scents -- even highly diluted essential oils. Many people find that they can use essential oils on their cats with no obvious adverse effects. Although one or more applications of an essential oil product or blend may not cause immediate harm, the effects of essential oils can be cumulative and manifest themselves at a later date in the form of toxicity for which owners and vets often can find no attributable cause.

 

[Mr. Premise]

A couple of things: Frontline is very dangerous, it is neurotoxic generally and also has properties of a sub-set of neurotoxins, excitotoxin.

Treating the animal won't get rid of fleas, since they mostly live in carpets and wherever the pet sleeps. This summer we decided to treat our house and dog without Frontline with a combination of neem oil shampooing for the dog and putting diatomaceous earth on the carpets. Worked like a charm!

Make sure you get food grade diatomaceous earth (it's really cheap, you can get enough to last a decade for $5), the non-food grade stuff has too much silica, I think and can irritate the lungs. Then mix a couple of tablespoons of it with water (to avoid dispersing it into the air) and sprikle the mixture on the rugs and carpets after vacuuming. It will also kill ants and roaches. It is a 'mechanical' pesticide, meaning it kills the bugs by mechanically ripping their digestive systems. The commercial pesticides usually work because they are neurotoxins.

I learned this thanks to a forum member whose handle I forgot, but who is a veterinarian. Thanks to him!

 

[JonnyRadar]

Although one or more applications of an essential oil product or blend may not cause immediate harm, the effects of essential oils can be cumulative and manifest themselves at a later date in the form of toxicity for which owners and vets often can find no attributable cause.

gotcha, thanks for making that clear. unfortunately, as i said, i had already treated him and the dog with frontline, but i won't be doing that again. thanks for the tip Stormy Knight, i'll keep the oils away from the cat.

i read about diatomaceous earth, but so far have been satisifed with a combination of borax and salt to treat the carpets. one layer of borax down with a sifter, wait 24 hours, vacuum, then repeat with salt, then with borax, etc... according to the majority of accounts across the internet (that i've found so far) this is the most effective combination, if repeated weekly with constant vacuuming in between, for dessicating and removing the flea eggs/larvae from carpeting. have also been mopping the kitchen (tile) floor with a combination of geranium oil and borax in the water. both the pets are kept away from the treated areas while the stuff is on the floor.

perhaps i will try the diatomaceous earth outdoors around the edge of the house. is it safe for animals to be around? it's essentially powdered glass isn't it?

this weekend i'm going to try the pan-of-water-with-a-light-over-it method in the basement and report the results later. though based on some other accounts i'm going to try syrup istead of water. one person said they caught about 300 fleas in one night that way!

 

[Z...]

I agree, frontline (fipronil) can be very harmful, I've seen severe reactions to frontline after only one application of spot on preparation which took years to resolve.
To make things even worse, frontline has been used so much (at least where I live) that fleas have become completely resistant to it.

DE particles have microscopically sharp edges which make them very harmful to insects but not to vertebrates. Actually it can even be applied on animal's skin without any consequences as long as you take precautions not to make dust clouds which you or your pets could inhale. It may be wise to use masks when handling DE.
Some people even give it orally to the cattle and pets to treat the intestinal worms but I don't know anything about it.

Just make sure that you use human and animal consumption grade diatomaceous earth as the stuff they use for swimming pool filters is not good.

Indeed, it is a very good idea to treat the soil around the house as this is where most of the flea eggs normally are (especially in the warm and humid climate) , the only problem (and for me the big one) is that you will destroy all invertebrate life in your garden.
Ants can be a great ally in battle against fleas as the flea eggs are real treat for them. Not sure, though, how you can colonize your garden with ants.

 

[Nienna]

A couple of things: Frontline is very dangerous, it is neurotoxic generally and also has properties of a sub-set of neurotoxins, excitotoxin.

Treating the animal won't get rid of fleas, since they mostly live in carpets and wherever the pet sleeps. This summer we decided to treat our house and dog without Frontline with a combination of neem oil shampooing for the dog and putting diatomaceous earth on the carpets. Worked like a charm!

Make sure you get food grade diatomaceous earth (it's really cheap, you can get enough to last a decade for $5), the non-food grade stuff has too much silica, I think and can irritate the lungs. Then mix a couple of tablespoons of it with water (to avoid dispersing it into the air) and sprikle the mixture on the rugs and carpets after vacuuming. It will also kill ants and roaches. It is a 'mechanical' pesticide, meaning it kills the bugs by mechanically ripping their digestive systems. The commercial pesticides usually work because they are neurotoxins.

I learned this thanks to a forum member whose handle I forgot, but who is a veterinarian. Thanks to him!

If it is at all possible, I would like to know if the neem oil does indeed repel the fleas. If you could report back on this after awhile, it would be appreciated. ;)

From what I've read in a couple of different places, there are conflicting reports so it would be interesting to see what develops from someone who is actually trying it.

 

[Mr. Premise]

Well, since I tried both Diatomaceous Earth and Neem Oil at the same time, I can't say what Neem alone would do, but I used about a teaspoon of pure Neem Oil mixed with dog shampoo and shampooed the dog weekly. No fleas. It's also good for mange, apparently, and the skin in general, so it won't hurt a dog. Cats are another issue, though.

If it is at all possible, I would like to know if the neem oil does indeed repel the fleas. If you could report back on this after awhile, it would be appreciated. ;)

From what I've read in a couple of different places, there are conflicting reports so it would be interesting to see what develops from someone who is actually trying it.

 

[Nienna]

Well, since I tried both Diatomaceous Earth and Neem Oil at the same time, I can't say what Neem alone would do, but I used about a teaspoon of pure Neem Oil mixed with dog shampoo and shampooed the dog weekly. No fleas. It's also good for mange, apparently, and the skin in general, so it won't hurt a dog. Cats are another issue, though.

Upon reading here and remembering from elsewhere, the fact that fleas and other insects don't like the smell of garlic would make it seem like it would work as, you probably can attest, it does have a garlicy aroma. :)

I was reading in a pamplet that I have that you can:

mix 1 oz. of neem oil with 4 - 10 oz. (depending of size of dog, the smaller the dog the weaker the solution) of sesame, sweet almond or olive oil. Massage into skin and fur. Leave on for about 1/2 an hour and wash with a mild shampoo.
OR
Add 1/2 oz. neem oil to 6 - 8 oz. mild natural shampoo and bathe.
OR
Mix 1 oz. neem oil to 3/4 - 1 gallon water with 1/4 - 1/2 tspn soap. Shake really well till oil and water are well mixed. Use as a spray or rinse.

So, thought I might give one or two of these a try. :) I like the last two.

 

[Lirpa]

Just a follow-up as I recently had the joy of dealing with a flea problem.

My neighbor's dog got fleas hence me finding a quite a few fleas on my Pugs last week .

I used this shampoo since others here recommended Neem oil:

_http://www.arknaturals.com/Neem-Protect-Shampoo.aspx

Worked like a charm. It does not kill fleas but seems to do a super job of repelling them.

I bathed them on Saturday afternoon and have found zero fleas or flea poops on them since late Saturday night. It usually takes longer to tackle the fleas if I just use regular dog shampoo so I surmise it is the combination of Neem, Eucalyptus, Celery Seed and Citronella oils in it that did the trick.

It is not tearless so be careful of using it on the head. You can take a bit of it and make a "border" around their neck just behind the ears before getting the body wet so the fleas do not go past that point since it is not tearless.

It smells divine! My Pugs were weirded out because I kept on smelling them! Well they are usually weirded out by me anyway

I test everything that I use on my Pugs on me first to make sure it is not irritating (ear cleaner, salves, shampoos, etc). I have even used "tearless" shampoo on my face and kind of let a little get in my eyes to make sure it really is tearless (no Aprils were harmed in this testing ).

I have super sensitive skin and used it on my hair and as a body wash. I had no irritation with this Neem shampoo so the Pugs and I are super pleased!

It has an accompanying spray but I have not tried it yet:

_http://www.arknaturals.com/Neem-Protect-Spray.aspx

Yesterday I got an idea and picked up some Dr. Bronner's Eucalyptus Castile Soap to use a drop in the glass of water to dip the flea comb in. That way it will leave the scent of Eucalyptus on their fur as I comb for fleas to help in repelling even more.

Thank you all for the Neem oil tip!

 

[Gimpy]

Thanks to everyone for this thread!

We've just returned from the vet to find out our pets have fleas. :(

Our vet told us that flea infestations have been the worst she's ever seen this year. A number of smaller animals have died from heavy flea burdens. I find that alarming. We just had them in a few weeks ago, and they had no fleas, so I'm pretty sure this is recent enough we can get rid of them in the usual time frame.

Yeesh! What is it about fleas....no matter how clean the house is, it just gives me the willies!


Gimpy
glad we don't have much carpet in the house