Ghandi a evil racist similarly to the Dalai Lama."Tibet Paradise" Myth. M.Teresa

[Voyageur]

Starting with the last thing you said first:

Finally regarding the conflict on the selection of the 17th Karmapa Lama there are signs that the two people will cooperate:
Karmapas Unite

This is all interesting and unprecedented - like a possible mending of a spiritual rift rather than a political one. As mentioned before, some are not pleased.

The Shugden problem has its basis in an old struggle for power among competing sects.

Yes, exactly. There is much written about the aspects of the Bon, too, that many read in the 'Darkness' book, and where now do these old Bon lineages fit in - and what could we know of their 'original' teachings (often mysterious or occultist).

When one considers the climatic fluxes - in and out of favorable conditions to severe conditions, these sects were probably pretty battered down in the last 800 years alone, and arose again with the typical land owner and priest class.

This Shugden worship did not really start out as an oracle for the people, it was an oracle for a fraction of Gelugpa monks that wanted power. Perhaps it is gaining or had gained popularity. One begins to understand how something like a Yahweh could get a hold of the mind of people.

And it is interesting that the same oracle lineage that was adopted by the earlier Gelugpa (Yellow Hats) was banished in favor of the State Nechung. Whatever the case, is it the just looking at the power base aspects of each?

Your last comment is something that came up for me, too, especially the varied belief structures, and when and where things were adopted and changed along the way (revised) - including from country to country and practice to practice (with a host of deities). What is the underlining Torah like message of laws that govern the tribe?

On the surface, going back to a Buddha, many words of thinking seem like pretty good principles:

When we talk about compassion, we talk in terms of being kind. But compassion is not so much being kind; it is being creative [enough] to wake a person up.

- Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoch

and as the former Dalai Lama said:

In the struggle for freedom, truth is the only weapon we possess.

- The 14th Dalai Lama

One may also ask if the strong resistance to the Dalai Lama, spearheaded by the British based NKT led by Geshe Kelsang Gyaso fitted into the need for sidelining the "Tibetan cause" in favour or better business with China, or diplomatic deals of who controls what. As the Tibetans are weaker, the talks of support can remain talks.

The British have for a long time meddled heavily in Tibet, was it not the British in 1903 - 04 utilizing the Indian army. Somewhere I've a paper on this but for now I'll have to use a few paragraphs from here, yet what the British did through their imperial proxy, was genocidal. The narrative usually leaves that alone, skipping instead to the 1.2 million that the Chinese were said to have killed, which is baseless as a number:

The causes of the campaign remains rather vague. It seems to have been born from the rumours in Calcutta that the Chinese who ruled Tibet were thinking about giving the province to Russia, breaking the chain of buffer states that separated India from the Russian empire, though this was clearly propitious. These rumours were backed by a Russian exploration to Tibet under Gombojab Tsybikov (20th April 1873 – 20th September 1930) who was the first photographer to Lhasa. Tsybikov seemed to be ideal choice to lead the expedition, as he was partly Tibetan himself; this would explain why he chose to stay in Tibet from 1901 with the aid of the thirteenth Dalai Lama, Russian born monk of the Gulag School of Buddhism and courtier Agvan Dorjiev. (1854 -1838) Dorjiev was a living legend among the people of Tibet who called him by his Tibetan name of Sokpo Tsenshab Ngawang Lobsang. Being born not far from Ulan-Ude east of Lake Baikal in Russia he was a useful Tibetan go-between for the Tsar and the Dalai-Lama and is remembered for building the Buddhist Temple of St Petersburg and signing the Tibet-Mongolian Treaty of 1913.
It should not have been a surprise to anyone when the Dalai Lama refused to have any dealings with the British officials in India whom he mistrusted and despatched Dorjiev as an emissary to the Court of Tsar Nicholas II with the appeal for Russian military protection in 1900. On arriving at the Tsar’s Palace of Peterhof in Yalta, the Monk was warmly received.

Against the Russians and the Chinese, the British and US had a target on Tibet, provocations where likely near unlimited to ensure their wedge was inserted.

There is a research paper that on the basis of field observations and interviews analyses the difference between a Shaman and an Oracle: https://www.researchgate.net/public...acle_of_Tibet_Spirit_Possession_and_Shamanism and this is the essence. The word one needs to know below is "kuten", it is the monk who is the vehicle or medium for the oracle.

Thanks for this.

"Dharma is about thinking for yourself”

- Sharma Rinpoche[/QUOTE]

Having a look back at what was saved when originally looking, especially following so many of the recommended books many read here, when looking again (and you start to remember all the link sources and who is trying to say what and why), this whole business is super complicated, complicated names, places and missing histories (religious or otherwise), so need to think about this more as this likely just scratches the surface.

For now, will add this interesting film and a couple of words from out of the original Karmapa rift between the different sects and hats (Yellow and Red). In the following, the Shamar Rinpoche lineage is who historically locates the Karmapa at birth, or soon after, and this was initially a question by Tseten. The fist letter was written by Dr. Tseten Trinley to Sharma (now deceased), and the response back was from Shamar:

The Dalai Lama's Oracles

Ending here are the two letters. From what can be seen over the last few decades, there has been some kind of strategy of tension running in the background, osit.

Reply by Shamar Rinpoche to question from Tseten


Posted on February 11, 2012

Question:

Your Eminence Shamar Rinpoche, With the utmost respect, I want to ask you: Why are you and your “clique” of a few Buddhist teachers unknown to most Tibetans fighting very aggressively for the recognition of your “Karmapa”?

You believe that you had the responsibility for searching him and you think that you have found the right Lama. Then why don’t you pray and be happy with him? If you have nothing to hide, why do you still indict other institutions? If you truthfully claim that no Dalai Lama ever had had a say in the internal affairs of the Karma Kagyu Lineage, then why do you fight so violently for the Dalai Lama’s recognition?

On one side you claim that you fight for the survival of an old institution and on the other side you accuse and allege other old Buddhist institutions and high teachers, who should be working for the survival of their old Buddhist traditions, too. What is so problematic about letting Situ’s group (www.karma-kagyu-verein.de) follow their own Lama who they have found. If you are right, they can’t be a problem for you. Tolerance and respect is asked from both sides. Who is right and who is wrong, who knows.

It is especially weird for a fellow Tibetan to hear from you and various members of your group all kinds of accusations against our Government in Exile. As a Tibetan you should know that Tibet was lost partly due to its rejection of modern technology and science that the thirteenth Dalai Lama had already introduced to the country. We are in the process of building a good democratic future government of Tibet.

This is important for all Tibetans, not just for a small group. It would be good if you had a second thought on the consequences of your actions before you made them an object for criticism from outsiders.

The Tibetans in exile have made mistakes, and we have learned from them. Democracy is nothing that comes out of the blue sky and can be installed instantly when we return to Tibet. It needs long term practice and experience. We have a golden opportunity to perform it now in exile, while our government resides in the biggest democratic country of the world.

It is known to all intellectual Tibetans and Tibet experts in Tibet and outside Tibet that the future of the Tibet will be decided by the Tibetans and not any religious institutions. Tibet was lost because too many people from nobility and religious groups clang to their little field of interest rather than working together for the general good. These mistakes should be avoided in the future. I sincerely wish you a good health.

Most respectfully, Dr. Tseten Trinley

Cc: Tibetan Association Germany; German-Tibetan Cultural Society

Answer:


Dear Mr. Tseten Trinley, I would like to respond point by point to your letter.

You write: “…a few Buddhist teachers unknown to most Tibetans fighting very aggressively…” The Buddhist teachers you refer to as “unknown”, may be unknown to you, however they are quite prominent to many others– Tibetans and Himalayans alike. In any case, these Rinpoches are known throughout the world to actively serve the Karma Kagyu, and are definitely committed to opposing those who betrayed the lineage. We have never fought aggressively. It is well known in India and the rest of the world, that the traitors within the Karma Kagyu have initiated the fighting and have on three separate occasions physically fought against the spiritual teachers and monks who wish to preserve the authenticity of the Karma Kagyu.

During the second and third of these aggressive actions, ‘Dotod’ people in the Tibetan Exile Government’s organization, joined the attack against the Karmapas monasteries in Rumtek and New Delhi. We have videocassettes of these attacks, but we have not circulated these publicly in U.S. and Europe, in order to protect the reputation of Tibet. Would you rather these cassettes were circulated to clear up the confusion of people like you? If you are certain that we have been the aggressors, please show your proof. We have suffered beatings and attacks patiently. Our response has always been to clarify the false accusations, allegations, misrepresentations of history, and lies that those who betrayed and their collaborators have disseminated.

You write: “You believe that you had the responsibility for searching him and you think that you have found the right Lama. Then why don’t you pray and be happy with him?” If I were simply a follower of the Karma Kagyu Lineage, I could do as you suggest, be a devotee, pray, and not have to look for the reincarnation of Karmapa. But, I am ShaMarpa and I have the responsibility of protecting the lineage. The situation is not just a matter of finding the reincarnation, but now involves protecting the monasteries and the rights of lineage from those who wish to sell it out. I am a man of principle. If you don’t know who ShaMarpa is, go to Bonn University where you will find the complete historical record of my past and my responsibilities.

You write: “If you have nothing to hide, why do you still indict other institutions?” Where and when have I indicted other institutions? If I have done this you should be able to prove two points:

That I said something about another school that is baseless and untrue.

That when I did say something critical about another school, it was said for reasons other than those specifically related to our current Karma Kagyu problems.

You write: “If you truthfully claim that no Dalai Lama ever had had a say in the internal affairs of the Karma Kagyu Lineage, they why do you fight so violently for the Dalai Lama’s recognition?” I have never requested the Dalai Lama’s recognition for Karmapa Thaye Dorje. From the beginning to the present, my stand has been consistent: the Dalai Lama has no authority in the recognition of a Karmapa. Secondly, the world is witness to the fact that I have never acted violently. If you can prove otherwise, please do so.

You write: “On one side you claim that you fight for the survival of an old institution and on the other side you accuse and allege other old Buddhist institution and high teachers, who should be working for the survival of the old Buddhist traditions, too.” The procedure by which the boy Ogen Trinley was recognized and enthroned as Karmapa was highly irregular and not in accordance with Karma Kagyu tradition.

In late 1991, Situ Rinpoche secretly collaborated with the Chinese government in Beijing where they jointly decided to select Ogen Trinley as Karmapa. When Situ came back to India, he produced the so called prediction letter of the 16th Karmapa from around his neck-a letter for which we all had been searching for the last 11 years. How amazing! When I, ShaMarpa, and the 16th Karmapa’s monks demanded the letter be submitted to forensic testing because it was obviously written in Situ’s handwriting, Situ’s collaborators attacked Rumtek Monastery to prevent this from happening.

At the same time the Chinese government enthroned Ogen Trinley in Tibet. H. H. Dalai Lama and the Tibetan Government in Exile fully supported the aggressive physical attack on Rumtek Monastery, Situ’s collaboration with China, and the Chinese government’s authority to recognize and enthrone Karmapa. Please show me that this is as you say, the authentic procedure of an old Buddhist institution, and I will surrender. My goal is to defend and protect my school, the Karma Kagyu, from those who wish to destroy it. I did not object to Ogen Trinley taking the name of Karmapa, but I do object to him taking over Rumtek Monastery as the Dalai Lama wishes. I will defend against this for these reasons:

Rumtek Monastery was both the seat and the most important monastery built by H.H. 16th Karmapa. I, from my position as ShaMarpa, do not want this to fall into the hands of a political puppet.

Legally, Rumtek Monastery belongs to 16th Karmapa, not to the Dalai Lama. My brother and I are 16th Karmapa’s direct nephews and wish to protect his property from those who want to illegally take it over.

I am one of the Trustees of the Karmapa Charitable Trust, the legal caretakers of the monastery. All of the Trustees except one, Situ Rinpoche, as well as Karmapa’s legitimate monks, support my view in this matter. Please tell me on what grounds, either spiritually or legally, the Dalai Lama has the right to make decisions over the use and ownership of the monastery that belongs to the 16th Karmapa, which is on land given to him by the Sikkimese king in 1960.

You write: “What is so problematic about letting Situ’s group follow their own Lama who they have found…” We have never objected to Situ following his own Lama.

You write: “It is especially weird for a fellow Tibetan to hear from you and various members of your group all kinds of accusations against our Government in Exile.” We never made accusations against the Tibetan Government in Exile until we were forced to defend ourselves against the Government in Exile’s involvement in the internal affairs of the Karma Kagyu. The shocking behavior of the Exile Government in taking the side of one faction while trying to destroy the other, made the internal problem infinitely worse. Their actions made it necessary to expose their treachery. But how did we do this? As always we did it in a nonviolent, responsible manner by respectfully explaining the events and historical context of the problem. I find it interesting that when the Dorje Shugden organization violently protested, accused and attacked the Dalai Lama, you were frightened into silence. But when we respond to the Exile Government’s dishonest interference in our internal affairs in a respectful manner, you are fearless and make bold accusations that we are being violent. This is wrong.

You write: “We are in the process of building a good democratic future government of Tibet. This is important for all Tibetans, not just a small group. It would be good if you had a second thought on the consequences of your actions before you made them an object for criticism from outsiders.” This is exactly what we have been saying to the Exile Government of Tibet. You should direct this comment to them, not to us..

You write: “The Tibetans in exile have made mistakes, and we have learned from them. Democracy is nothing that comes out of the blue shy and can be installed instantly when we return to Tibet. It needs long term practice and experience. We have a golden opportunity to perform it now in exile, while our government resides in the biggest democratic country of the world. It is known to all intellectual Tibetans and Tibet experts in Tibet and outside Tibet that the future of the Tibet will be decided by the Tibetans and not any religious institutions.”

I congratulate you on your view.

You write: “Tibet was lost because too many people from nobility and religious groups clang to their little field of interest rather than working together for the general good. These mistakes should be avoided in the future.” I do not agree that Tibet was lost because of nobility and religious groups. I think it was lost because religious institutions and lamas took over the government. In 1988 in front of H.H. Dalai Lama and many Tibetan religious leaders in Varanasi, from my position as a spiritual leader, I suggested that government and religion should be separated. Lay people should run the government in a democratic manner. I also specifically emphasized that H.H. Dalai Lama is the only one who can institute this change. Thank you for you interest.

My best wishes for you.

Shamarpa

 

[thorbiorn]

The Dalai Lama's Oracles

In this post there are a few more details about what happens to the oracle during the possession and a little discussion of what goes on, but first some comments about the small girl that is in the video with the Dalai Lama. In the video they talk about her warning about health, but apparently there has been something else, at least if one is to believe this https://www.tibetworlds.com/2016/01/19/the-unreliability-of-the-nechung-oracle/ probably written by people antagonistic to the Dalai Lama, which might mean some adherents of the Shugden oracle or maybe the Chinese government. A critic may also be correct in some instances; assuming this is the case in the quoted instances, I proceed.

In more recent times, an Indian beggar girl traveled to Dharamsala a few years ago claiming to be an incarnation of the Hindu goddess Sambhavi. Her parents demanded a private audience with the Dalai Lama, claiming that the girl had a special message for him. In ‘trance’, she warned him of health concerns and also gave a prediction that Tibetans would return to Tibet in 2012. The incident was covered by the news channel Al-Jazeera and French Channel 5. To verify the girl’s claims, the Nechung oracle was invoked and the Dharma Protector concurred with the girl’s predictions. However, the year 2012 came and went and nothing happened.

For more on the same story:
'Child Goddess' Sambhavi has to go to School! Andhra Pradesh Human Rights Commission Orders! – South Asia Citizens Web or
Mother calls Dalai Lama successor's bluff where one finds:

A group of rationalists challenged the claims of Rani about Sambhavi's alleged powers and complained to the state human rights commission.

Following directions from the commission, the district administration started a probe in November.

The high court on Friday directed Nandyal's revenue authorities to provide medical treatment to Sambhavi and posted the case pertaining to her child rights for December 22.

Rani had claimed the Dalai Lama would visit Suryanandi on December 21 to lay the foundation stone of Buddha Vijaya, a monastery. However, the Tibetan leader, who left Hyderabad for Gulbarga on Saturday, reportedly cancelled his trip after coming to know of the "hoax".

There can be no doubt that the rationalists have done a lot to suppress the idea that a small girl could have a dream about the future, which is what it sounds like in the video, although they speak about trance in the article. These surely have done their own atheist cause a favour, but others?

In one youtube comment, they say about the above case that according to the court ordered she was to be sent to school, but she disappeared with her mother for a years and only returned when already a young woman.

For Telegu speakers there are more videos, this one, or this in which she argues her father left the family because of a rationalist Babu Gogineni Gaduni (His CV is in Telegu, I used machine translation). One comment said: "It is possible that hetuvadis [The above person?] might have been harsh against Shambhavi and family members on getting Human Rights commission Order." And one said, for instance in the Telegu comments to this video, that Gogineni is more interested in promoting himself, than concerned about the trouble he causes for a young person, even if there is a "small sin" But then if the Dalai Lama had not accepted the idea of the mother and the young child, would it have happened? Another video about this woman, "Return Of 'Shambhavi' | Veera Brahmendra Swamy Successor | NTV" has a title that leaves me with the idea, [although this is with some reservation as I do not understand Telegu, but goes with the content of the title]that she considers herself to be a successor of famous 17th century seer, who made many predictions, at least this is what one gets when looking up the name and using translations machines. I wondered if she had seen an entertaining Indian Tollywood film (Telegu film industry) that was made in 1984, see 1h45-1h:50 and 1h:56-2h:01 Who knows maybe she watched it?

The idea of child goddesses is not unknown, at least not in Nepal, where BBC made a documentary. In short, it was not far removed from customs in nearby areas that the Dalai Lama should be taken in by the claims of child. Also in Tibetan Buddhist culture, it has been a tradition to send out scouts to find the reincarnation of a lama in order to then give proper education according to the tradition and make sure the found reincarnations takes over the place of the deceased religious leader.

Considering the quality needed for being a medium, it could be based on a combination of internal beliefs, of experience, genetic disposition, state of mental health and the knowledge of the medium. Also an influence could be the knowledge of those present at an oracle session, along with the cultural setup that configures the limits within which the medium operates including religious preparations.

One question is what forces and intelligences are guiding this type of oracle? I would guess some quality of STS force, it would fit with the rituals, all the illusions distributed and the suffering. In the video it is said the oracle speaks old Tibetan that few understand and which then has to be written down, translated and interpreted, which of course leaves the option that the most important aspects are the last three, the writing, the translation and interpretation. However strange this may be, in ancient Rome the state augur used the signs of birds, so why not use some old hard to understand language from Tibet?

In a link, I mentioned earlier Tibetan Oracles - Chinese Buddhist Encyclopedia there are some descriptions of what the vehicle of the Nechung Oracle experiences. This includes pain for days afterwards, and he does not remember anything of what has happened. They do have tests to make sure the medium is really a medium, but they do not test the spirit in a systematic way, it appears to be like trial and error, too many errors and a new medium is found.

Some of the higher ranking oracles go through some Buddhist training including yoga focusing on controlling inner energies and the nervous system, but they do not undergo this training until they have been identified as an oracle and been thoroughly investigated. The Tibetan oracles are said to have a special kind of energy necessary for the powerful spirit to enter their body. This energy is recognized around puberty when oracles-to-be fall into trance uncontrollably. The unnatural effects on the body while in trance also serve to demonstrate the oracle’s lack of control over the situation and the presence of some outside factor.

One example of this is in the helmet that is worn by the oracle. The helmet of the Chief State Oracle is made of pure gold and requires two men to carry it; however, when the medium is in trance he can easily balance the helmet on his head. Under normal circumstances, the oracle would be unable to hold this weight, let alone make various movements while wearing this helmet.

“The moment the oracle’s body is possessed, his powers, strength, energy multiply many times over; there fore, he can carry the heavy helmet.” (Lipsey 270)

Also, the helmet is tied on very tightly when the oracle enters into full trance. If this is tied too early, the medium will suffocate; if it is untied too late, the same will result. When the oracle is in full trance, it won’t hurt him. (269) Included with the helmet and other heavy, decorated garments the oracle wears a long-sleeved garment which is mostly yellow in color and is made of ‘heavy brocade’. The dress worn during the trance is elaborate and confining. The medium’s ability to be so agile and free-moving is another magical aspect of the unconscious state. Another hampering example of clothing worn is the boots. The oracle wears a pair of high boots that are very heavy with thick, broad soles which are turned upward in front. For someone to be able to dance in these boots is a phenomenon in itself. (Nebesky-Wojkowitz 210-211) Not only are these oracles able to dance and make very sharp movements impressive, but it has been recorded that at times the medium can “jump several feet high.” (Nebesky-Wojkowitz 434) Along with this physical feat – in most cases – high levels of pain tolerance are exhibited. Of the examples researched, one of the most compelling occurred with the shield worn by the oracle. In one case, the oracle began to beat his shield hanging on his chest with his hand until his hands were covered in blood. The pain did not deter the medium because he continued to beat the shield with his knuckles again and again. An observed stated, “There could be scarcely any doubt that the medium was not simulating, but had fallen into a full trance.” (434) The physical effects on the body can also show that uncontrollable nature of these trances and the presence of some undefined spirit. The oracle’s eyes glaze over and the eyelids droop at the start of possession. “When his eyes close and his head nods, the monks believe consciousness has become submerged in the god who enters him.” (Ellingson 59) The face of the medium swells to the point that his facial features and looks are barely recognizable. When the medium is under possession, sometimes a sword is presented to the medium. This occurs at the height of possession. The oracle is given the sword subsequently utilizes his enormous, unnatural strength to bend it either into a spiral or a ‘U’ shape. The strength exhibited is staggering.

A reporter who was present for this exhibition examined the sword after it had been bent to check its authenticity: “a short sword was handed to the oracle who grasped the hilt with the right hand, and setting the point of the weapon against the right side of the of the strong leather belt which he was wearing underneath his apron he pressed against the sword until the blade was bent into a U-form. – After the end of the ceremony I tried to bend the sword straight again, but without the slightest effect.” (De’;;Nebesky-Wojkowitz 434). The sword is often kept and fastened to a wall above the entrance to a room. It is believed that the bent sword is a deterrent to evil spirits and demons. This is the first test given when there are several prospective mediums vying for the Nechung Chief State Oracle position.

The second test administered is just an observation of the effects of the trance and possession on the oracle.
Some of the indications that are looked for are as follows: saliva flowing from the oracle’s mouth at the beginning of the trace contains blood; the tongue kept rolled backward and pressed with its tip against the upper palate when not speaking, and an outline of a thunderbolt visible on the scalp of the shaven-headed medium. This thunderbolt is said to be from Padmasambhava subduing Pe har.

The final part of this test is to question the medium, again while in trance, about the past, present, and future. It is believed that these series of tests are so vigorous that only the true medium, Pe har, will be able to help the rightful successor earn this coveted position. The Tibetan oracle never remembers what happened while in trance. If he did, in Tibet he would be considered a fake. This overall amnesia is a result of the magnificent stress placed on the body while in possession.

A personal account best describes the incident: “But all I know is that I wake up hours later with indescribable aches in every part of my body, and I feel the pain for days afterward. It is not a pleasant experience, and the worst thing is that I never know anything about what I have done.” (Ellingson 64) This fact is more data in favor of the idea that the actions of the oracle are completely out of his control. This displays that indeed the oracle is under the direction of another force and is truly being used as a medium between the spiritual world and the physical world. The trance performed by the Tibetan oracle is a unique case among other mind-altered, trance-like states observed. The Oracle’s trance is proven to be fundamentally different from other trance occurrences. Because of the unique qualities of the oracle’s trance, unitary trance theories fail in rationalization. The trance of the Tibetan oracle “fails to support common physiologically-based theories, such as rhythmic driving or hyperventilation, as explanation for the trance induction.” (Ellingson 67)

The majority of Tibetan oracles experience their first trance at the time of puberty. This is very interesting because these trances are not induced and are random. This would suggest that the oracle is not in charge of falling into their position and that there are indeed spirits who choose specific individuals. “The first fits occur spontaneously and mostly to the great alarm of the person who experiences them.” (Nebesky-Wojkowitz 416) Many of the people who experience and realize these trances fear the responsibility of becoming an oracle because of the stress, strain, and pain which mediums experiences as a result of the possessions

In the video the medium is carried out on a stretcher and notice how fast they work. If there is so much pain and stress, even risk involved for the medium, why does the leadership even continue this procedure, or is it as much a way to demonstrate power and connection with the world of spirits, a way to legitimize their position as leaders in order not only to inspire the faith of the believers in religious dogmas no matter how irrational it might be in some instances, but equally to keep the believers subdued. In the video there is the clip of the Tibetan/Chinese woman, and her devotion and faith can hardly be questioned, how would she be thinking about her own situation, if the oracle was not there? The Tibetan oracle has an important role in the administration of society as did in ancient Rome the tradition of taking omes from birds.

From reading this https://www.tibetworlds.com/2016/01/19/the-unreliability-of-the-nechung-oracle/ it is evident an oracle is not always correct, and there are a couple of examples:

Even earlier in 1986, the Nechung oracle offered another prediction concerning the Tibetan cause. The oracle pronounced that in the Year of the Dragon, something extraordinary would happen; the Tibetans in exile and abroad would reunite and that this day was very near. At that time, a Geshe was visiting Lhasa and people would come up and ask him, “Are you from abroad?” When he said yes, they asked further, “Did you know that our state oracle has given this prediction?” And they showed him a slip of paper that had the prediction written on it. On another occasion, the state oracle said,

I will send 100 million divine soldiers to China
Come 1987, the Year of the Dragon, the Tibetans organized an uprising against the Chinese, optimistic that Nechung’s prediction would come true. However, the Chinese police swiftly crushed the uprising and no divine soldiers came to assistant. In fact, Nechung would make further (and similar) predictions about the Year of the Ox (1997) and the Year of the Pig (1995) but with no success. The Tibetan situation remained the same

People go hurt, put in prison, died, wasted their time, apparently no big deal.

Conclusion
It is clear from these anecdotes that Nechung has a track record of making unreliable, inaccurate and plain-out wrong pronouncements and prophecies. These incorrect predictions have created tremendous trouble for the Dalai Lama and for the cause of Tibet. Yet, it is puzzling to note that despite all the problems that arose due to the reliance on the state oracle, the Nechung oracle is still very much revered and consulted to this day.

Generally, many high lamas still have high regard for the Dharma Protector Nechung, and some believe that the being entering the Nechung oracle’s body is not necessarily Nechung himself. In fact, some say that a powerful malignant spirit of someone who had been murdered by the CTA has been entering the state oracle, and intentionally making incorrect pronouncements – karma coming back for the Tibetan leadership. Whatever it is, there is a general belief that the trance of the Nechung oracle is not and has not been pure. In all likelihood, Nechung’s pronouncement against Dorje Shugden is yet another fake prophecy designed to create more harm in Tibetan society. Very plausible considering that all the Dorje Shugden ban has achieved is to create suffering, misery and heartache for all involved.[/QUOTE]
Maybe, a whole review of the foundation and practice of Buddhism including Tibetan Buddhism is what the events are inviting people to consider. This is a very difficult step, and to be a success it requires progressively increasing knowledge, otherwise one might exchange one program for another or loose the baby with the bath water.

 

[thorbiorn]

Below is a comment on the Bon religion and its possible origins as well as a comment on the influence of Tibetan Buddhism on Mongolia and Shamanism.

Yes, exactly. There is much written about the aspects of the Bon, too, that many read in the 'Darkness' book, and where now do these old Bon lineages fit in - and what could we know of their 'original' teachings (often mysterious or occultist).

In Bon - Wikipedia there is given two options:

According to traditional Bon beliefs and legends, the Bon religion predates the arrival of Buddhism in Tibet. According to the scholar and Buddhist master Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, there is clear manuscript evidence confirming the existence of fully articulated Bon doctrine and practice prior to the forcible annexation of the Bon kingdom of Zhangzhung in the 8th century CE by Tibetan king Trisong Deutsung: "It is very clearly stated in the ancient lineage-manuscripts of Bon, known as Srid-rGyud, during the reign of the Buddhist King Trisong Deutsen, that the tradition of Bon and its founder both first started [centuries earlier] in Zhangzhung."[5]

Definitions of Bon
The Bon religion can be classified in two stages:[18]

1. The native Bon or "black Bon" (also "Spirit Bon")
2. The Yungdrung Bon or "new Bon"

The first and original stage of Bon relied on magical and shamanistic rituals and was thus named as "black Bon". Black Bon shares many similarities with traditional Chinese folk religions, but also with Mongolian shamanism and other religions like Shinto or Muism.

The second stage is the rediscovered Bon, that has absorbed several aspects from Buddhism.

But

Some subsequent Buddhist commentators, e.g., by Sam van Schaik, "in truth the 'old religion' was a new religion." claim that Bon is not an ancient religion or at least not a united religion.[10][19] According to them, the scriptures are derived primarily from termas (hidden teachings) and visions by tertöns (discoverers of hidden teachings) such as Loden Nyingpo.[10]

As Bon only arose in the eleventh century through the work of tertöns, Sam van Schaik claims it is improper to refer to the pre-Buddhist religion of Tibet as Bon:

One could counter the last claim by considering that Tibet has been surrounded by civilizations with a high degree of organization and knowledge like China, India and Persia, therefore it is more likely the claim that Bon is older than Buddhism has more merit. I also base this idea on the claim that Tibetan Medicine is 2500 years old. See Tibetan medicine: a unique heritage of person-centered medicine which has:

Aspects of Tibetan medicine can be found in ancient cultures as old as 2,500 years. It was in the Kingdom of Shang Shung that practitioners of the Bön Shamanistic religion recorded formal texts describing healing rituals, medical divination, and astrology. Practices such as medical divination lead to much the same nature of treatment. A divination would be made indicating a particular elemental disturbance and a ritual remedy prescribed. Divinations would not be limited to medicine but were connected to all actions considered important, such as marriage, beginning a business, and funerals.

The indigenous cultures of pre-Buddhist Tibet also included the use of natural herbal remedies. In particular for wounds, very common when living in harsh environments, various poultices and wraps were used. These basic treatments formed one branch of medicine that when combined with Bon ritual practices offered its people relief. The shamanistic practices, although often relying upon what can be described as superstitious beliefs, also put emphasis upon personal meditation and the balancing of one’s body both internally and externally. It is precisely this notion, of the relation of mind and body, that would continue to develop with the introduction of Buddhism into Tibet.

For more practical information: The Tibetan Medicine

Wondering about the name Black Bon, it might be worth mentioning that there was a group called the Tangut people, where one finds "Black" associated with the priestly class and with a white bird that at least in the real world might have been inspired by the Siberian Crane. Tangut people - Wikipedia has about this people that they lived on the border with or close to Tibet.

The Tanguts eventually migrated from their homeland in northeastern Tibet to the eastern Ordos region under pressure from the Tibetan Empire.

and

Tangut society was divided into two classes: the "Red Faced" and the "Black Headed". The Red Faced Tanguts were seen as commoners while the Black Headed Tanguts made up the elite priestly caste. Although Buddhism was extremely popular among the Tangut people, many Tangut herdsmen continued to practice a kind of shamanism known as Root West.[citation needed] The black caps worn by Root West shamans give the Black Headed caste its name. According to Tangut myth, the ancestor of the Black Headed Tanguts was a heavenly white crane, while the ancestor of the Red Faced Tanguts was a monkey.[4] Tangut kings went by the title of Wuzu.

According to sources in the Tangut language, the Tangut state known now as the Western Xia was named 𗴂𗹭𗂧𘜶 translated as "Great State of White and Lofty" (phôn¹ mbın² lhi̯ə tha²).[5]

Concerning the association of the Black Headed Tanguts with a white crane, it turns out the Siberian Crane is the whitest of all cranes. The mascot for the Red Faced Tanguts might have been the reddish Golden Snub Nosed Monkey which inhabits central China, at least at the present.

To the question where it all fits in, I would being with what Laura writes in the Secret History of the World (p. 272):

There was, it seems, another consequence of this "shift." Increasingly, the descents into the "underworld" and the relations with "spirits" led to their "embodiment" or in the shaman's being "possessed" by "spirits." What is clear is that these were innovations, most of them recent. What is particularly striking is in the research of the historiographers of myth, legend, shamanism, etc. is the discovery of the "influences from the south, which appeared quite early and which altered both cosmology and techniques of ecstasy." Among these southern influences were the contributions of Buddhism an Lamaism, added to the Iranian and in the last analysis, Mesopotamian influences that preceded them.

It is possible to propose some of the influences that altered the cosmology and the techniques of ecstasy used in some areas of Siberia and Central Asia north of Tibet came from Tibet and helped to displace shamanism in areas? Probably, although one could also ask what would have happened if the same areas had been taken over by Christianity or Islam. Below are some discoveries that one may consider.
In the days of Genghis Khan, there were already some Buddhists in the areas controlled by the Mongols, and his grandson, Kublai Khan (1215-1294), who had a Christian mother, Sorghaghtani Beki, and a Buddhist nurse, made Buddhism the preferred religion in the Yuan dynasty he founded. That only lasted a short time, but then came Altan Khan (1507-1582). During his rule the Gelug sect proselytized heavily and Tibetan Buddhism became a state religion in Mongolia, see especially Buddhism in Mongolia - Wikipedia which has:

In 1578 Altan Khan, a Mongol military leader with ambitions to unite the Mongols and to emulate the career of Genghis Khan, invited the 3rd Dalai Lama, the head of the rising Gelug lineage to a summit. They formed an alliance that gave Altan Khan legitimacy and religious sanction for his imperial pretensions and that provided the Buddhist school with protection and patronage. Altan Khan recognized Sonam Gyatso lama as a reincarnation of Phagpa lama, gave the Tibetan leader the title of Dalai Lama ("Ocean Lama"), which his successors still hold. Sonam Gyatso, in turn, recognized Altan as a reincarnation of Kublai Khan.[5][citation needed] Thus, Altan added legitimacy to the title "khan" that he had assumed, while Sonam Gyatso received support for the supremacy he sought over the Tibetan sangha. Since this meeting, the heads of the Gelugpa school became known as Dalai Lamas. Altan Khan also bestowed the title Ochirdara (Очирдар, from Sanskr. Vajradhara) to Sonam Gyatso.

Altan Khan died soon after, but in the next century the Gelug spread throughout Mongolia, aided in part by the efforts of contending Mongol aristocrats to win religious sanction and mass support for their ultimately unsuccessful efforts to unite all Mongols in a single state. Viharas (Mongolian datsan) were built across Mongolia, often sited at the juncture of trade and migration routes or at summer pastures where large numbers of herders would congregate for shamanistic rituals and sacrifices. Buddhist monks carried out a protracted struggle with the indigenous shamans and succeeded, to some extent, in taking over their functions and fees as healers and diviners, and in pushing the shamans to the fringes of Mongolian culture and religion.

Church and state supported each other, and the doctrine of reincarnation made it possible for the reincarnations of living Buddhas to be discovered conveniently in the families of Mongolian nobility until this practice was outlawed by the Qianlong Emperor of the Qing dynasty.

Tibetan Buddhism ruled in Mongolia for close to 300 years, or until the Communist revolution succeeded in displacing the Tibetan Buddhists. In the above Wiki it mentions that until the Communist takeover, the third highest position within Tibetan Buddhism was the chief lama of Mongolia, the Jebtsundamba Khutuktu, whose position in Mongolia was similar to that of the Dalai Lama in Tibet. In the Wikis of the Gelug, Altan Khan and in Buddhism in Mongolia, there are more details that one can compare.

In Europe there is an enclave of Tibetan Buddhism in Kalmikya to the west of the Lower Volga, before it exits into the Caspian Sea. It is west-southwest of Volgograd. Kalmikya is the only area in Europe where Buddhism is the most dominant religion. For more on their history see: Kalmyks - Wikipedia

 

[thorbiorn]

It turns out the Central Tibetan Administration and the Dalai Lama also has another oracle, the Tenma Oracle; this role is filled by a young Tibetan woman Khadro-la and below are some explanation of what the oracle is and how the woman occupying it came into that situation. The story she tells is unusual; I try to capture impressions, add a few comments and end with a couple of more links to interviews and talks she has given.
The Tenma are goddesses. The Tenma goddesses - Wikipedia explains:

The Tenma goddesses are twelve guardian deities in Tibetan Buddhism. In hierarchy, they fall under Palden Lhamo, one of the eight Dharmapala deities. Other times, they are part of the retinue of the Bönpo goddess, Sidpa Gyalmo[1]. Formerly, the 12 Tenma were said to have been local protectors of Tibet before the spread of Buddhism until they came to Padmasambhava's Asura Cave in the Pharping region of Nepal while Padmasambhava was subduing many deities and spirits. Some stories say that the goddesses were hostile to the spread of Buddhism during this time while others said that they refused to give their life essence to Padmasambhava and wanted to keep protecting Tibet. Either ways, Padmasabhava defeated them and bound them to an oath to protect the dharma.[2]

In Dharamsala, India, there is a Tenma oracle, for which a young Tibetan woman is the kuten, which literally means, "the physical basis".

The last two highlighted sentences "hostile to the spread of Buddhism" and "refused to give thier life essence to Padmasambhava and wanted to keep protecting Tibet." makes one wonder what was really going on; it sounds like a conquest by force.

The present Tenma Oracle is Khadro-la and there is an interview in which she tells about her highly strange trip from her village in Tibet to Dharamsala in India. Khadro-la ⋆ The Yogini Project Here are some of her descriptions of how she came to Dharamsala and got to see the Dalai Lama:

Ven. Roger Kunsang: Can you tell me why you left Tibet?

Khadro-la: “It happened at the last minute. I didn’t have the intention, and I didn’t have the money to travel. I followed a sign that came in my dreams. There was a bus blowing its horn indicating its departure, and until I got on the bus I was unaware of where I was heading.

No money, if we are to believe her, but she travelled somehow.

“One day, while we had stopped our journey at Shigatse, I was circumambulating Tashi Lhunpo Monastery when I came across an elderly man dressed in an Indian cloth doti. [...] He told me that India was just beyond this mountain, and that I should be meeting with His Holiness the Dalai Lama and many other lamas. He kept urging me to head for India – and at the time it didn’t feel at all strange, although when I recall it now it seems amazing to me.” .

We don't know who this is old man was, but basically this meeting was the beginning.

Ven. Roger: Was it very difficult to make your way to India?

Khadro-la: “Oh yes! There was much hardship. I had no mission of my own and was just following the pilgrims. I don’t remember very clearly how long the journey was, but I did fifteen koras round Mount Kailash and due to my unusual actions and the words that I was speaking, rumors were going around that I was a dakini. People began to line up to see me, even seeking blessings from me. It was very tiring for me to deal with the crowds, but a very kind monk from a nearby monastery took good care of me with food and drink.

One kora is one circumambulation around Mount Kailash, a 52 km long trek. Hardcore Tibetan style it is a one day task, but otherwise three days. The highest pass is 5650m; this is just under 500 mb or half the air pressure of at sealevel. See Mt Kailash Kora in Tibet

High Altitude of Mount Kailash Inner Kora and Outer Kora

With an elevation of 6,721 meters above the sea level, Mt. Kailash is one of the most challenging treks in Tibet. Here you'll get more details about the altitudes of Mt.Kailash inner and outer kora as well as the ways to ease altitude sickness.

www.tibettour.org

One night, quite suddenly and without any discussion, I made up my mind to leave for India and so a man who was our guide led seventeen of us from the bus along the trail that leads to the border. He wasn’t very experienced and it took seventeen days to reach Kathmandu in Nepal. It should have taken only seven days. We were in no man’s land, and as there were no real paths or people to ask, it was impossible to tell whether we were even out of Tibet. We had to just follow the signs I got in my dreams. When we were confused about the way, I was instructed to go in the direction where there appeared a circle of light. Maybe this was the blessing of the Dalai Lama or Palden Lhamo.

They came to Nepal, but she was by now very sick and basically left to die and arrangement had been made in case that happened. Eventually she recovered and came to Dharamsala, but to get to see the Dalai Lama was not easy.

One day, I heard that His Holiness was coming back home, so I hid beside the road to greet him. As his car passed by Namgyal Monastery, I saw a very bright light radiating on the front window of the car and inside I saw him with many hands around his shoulders! It was the first time I had ever seen His Holiness and I just jumped towards the car to prostrate, and I fell unconscious, almost under the car.

From reading the High Strangeness book one suspects the above experience may have more than the interpretation usually ascribed by the devotees, though hard to say. As the following suggests, this woman must be highly suggestible, be able to enter hypnotic states easily and be able to move between different states of mind very easily.

“The teaching began with the recitation of the Heart Sutra. I could hear His Holiness chanting, and as he was saying “no eyes, no nose,” etc., I started to have a very strange feeling. By the time he was saying “form is empty and emptiness is form,” I felt rays of light were showering on me, entering from the crown and filling my whole body. I felt lifted up in the air. I had a strong feeling of joy and sentiment.

Perhaps the words trigger in her the fruits of earlier practice? Next are some reasons the old man in Shigatse wanted her to go to Dharamsala and more about her difficulties.

“As time went by, I came to know some meditators and came in contact with some great lamas such as Kirti Tsenshab Rinpoche and Khalkha Jetsun Dampa. I received blessing water from them, and they, too, tried many ways to make my contact with His Holiness possible. But no progress was made, and so I finally made up my mind to return to Tibet. I was exceptionally sad at not being able to fulfill some of the tasks the old man in Shigatse has asked me to do. There were some important things that I should do, such as making a long life offering and some other secret thing, and time for all those activities was running out.

Eventually she succeeds.

“There were a lot of us waiting anxiously. I saw His Holiness coming toward us and I saw him with so much light radiating and many arms, just as I had seen him before. As soon as I stood up to make prostrations, again I was possessed and taken away by the security guards. Perhaps I was kicked or punched, because I found bruises on my body when I regained consciousness.

“But after His Holiness granted an audience to all the other people, he asked to bring up the lady oracle and so I was taken to him. As soon as I went to him, I grabbed at his feet and went unconscious again. When I came back to normal His Holiness asked me about my home and many other questions, but I was just left speechless. No words came out – I was too overjoyed to say anything. Later I was able to tell him all that the old man had told me in Shigatse and he heard all about me and my problems. I was confirmed as the oracle of the protector and His Holiness asked me not to go back to Tibet. His Holiness granted me different empowerments and instructions, and I begun to do the retreats that he advised me to do.”

What is also instructive is how she views herself and how others view her.

Ven. Roger: When did you first feel that you were a dakini?

Khadro-la: “I always think I am not a dakini. I don’t know who I am. Some lamas say I am Khandro Yeshe Tsogyal, some say I am Vajrayogini, and others say I am Tara. It might be their own pure appearances. I myself think I am nothing special.

“When I was young some people said I was mad. Some said I was dakini. I don’t know. I have no doubt that I have very strong karmic imprints from the past, because I have been very dear to His Holiness and many other high lamas from Tibet and outside of Tibet. Some lamas from Tibet, whom I never knew, sent me love, respect, good wishes and often offerings and praises. Another reason is that sometimes the words to express the view of emptiness come out of my mouth automatically – something I have never heard and studied before – but I can’t remember later what I said.”

That reads like her communications are similar to those of a medium, but when listening to the video of a lecture she gave in France, posted on the page I found this interview, Khadro-la gives the impression very aware and cognizant.
To get an idea of what some of the terms used about her means, even though it doesn't appear she buys fully into them, the words Dakini and Vajrayogini are explained in Who is Vajrayogini? - Definition from Yogapedia

Definition - What does Vajrayogini mean?

Vajrayogini is Tantric Buddhist deity who represents the path leading to female buddhahood. She is also a dakini (“sky dancer”), a term that describes a female supernatural being or an accomplished yogini, and is considered the queen of the dakinis. She is called Vajravarahi in Tantric Buddhism, or Vajrayana, a tradition in which she is considered the supreme deity — more revered than any male buddha.

Her name is derived from the Sanskrit, vajra, typically translated as “diamond” or “thunderbolt,” and yogini, which is a female yogi, or yoga practitioner.

I found two interviews, and from what I can read she is probably more critical and realistic than many followers. Being critical and realistic are beneficial qualities, especially for a medium.
Integrating Lam-Rim into Daily Life - Mandala Publications and Khadro-la on Using Stupas to Minimize Harm from the Elements - Mandala Publications

 

[Voyageur]

Thanks for your posts, thorbiorn.

One question is what forces and intelligences are guiding this type of oracle? I would guess some quality of STS force, it would fit with the rituals, all the illusions distributed and the suffering. In the video it is said the oracle speaks old Tibetan that few understand and which then has to be written down, translated and interpreted, which of course leaves the option that the most important aspects are the last three, the writing, the translation and interpretation. However strange this may be, in ancient Rome the state augur used the signs of birds, so why not use some old hard to understand language from Tibet?

This may indeed be so (the first bold), and oracles, as said, are in most cities, towns and villages and there are many charlatans who sucker in town folk for gain. There are more than likely some priests, like the Rabbis using the Talmud laws or Christian branches with their interpretations who likewise use the words from orcles mixed with their form of teaching to lock-in believes keeping their people on the wheel.

Generally, many high lamas still have high regard for the Dharma Protector Nechung, and some believe that the being entering the Nechung oracle’s body is not necessarily Nechung himself. In fact, some say that a powerful malignant spirit of someone who had been murdered by the CTA has been entering the state oracle, and intentionally making incorrect pronouncements – karma coming back for the Tibetan leadership. Whatever it is, there is a general belief that the trance of the Nechung oracle is not and has not been pure. In all likelihood, Nechung’s pronouncement against Dorje Shugden is yet another fake prophecy designed to create more harm in Tibetan society. Very plausible considering that all the Dorje Shugden ban has achieved is to create suffering, misery and heartache for all involved.

One thing about the forum and Laura's writing has been years and years of testing - nothing is for sure, there are nuances and a certain way you have to look at these things. Now as stated below (interview), apparently there are tests with the State Nechung conducted by the Dalai Lama himself, although there are likely many old high lamas who pay attention - they may see what the average don't see/hear and know what is being said and not said - is it clear, or is it poppycock.

Now this little interview here with Thupten Ngodrup (Nechung oracle) is somewhat interesting. It gets into how often the oracle is consulted and what the oracle feels/remembers, from his own words. Consultation is likely a result of State indecision on issues, especially big political issues - Chinese et cetera, which you further mention in that the oracles are often wrong much of the time i.e. their track record.

Interview with Thupten Ngodrup,
the Present Nechung Kuten

Interviewer: Can you tell me about the first time you were possessed by the Nechung spirit?

Thupten Ngodrup: You get this feeling that the oracle is inside you. A sudden feeling. In 1984, the previous medium passed away. For three years, during which I worked as chief of rituals for the monastery, offering incense and tea, we didn't have a Nechung kuten. On March 31, 1987, I was spreading incense, and I felt an electric shock through my body: I was in a total trance, and couldn't remember anything.

Question: Did you need specific qualifications?

Answer: My predecessors all came from different backgrounds: some were very high officials, some were lamas, and some were lay people. At that point [when I went into a trance], Nechung had made a choice. Two days later, His Holiness the Dalai Lama had a special audience for me and asked me what happened. Whatever dreams or signs I had, I told His Holiness. And His Holiness asked me, 'If you become the kuten, are you okay with that? Would there be any difficulty for you?' Sometimes when you become the kuten, it's difficult for your physical body. You get sickness. I told His Holiness, 'If my becoming the kuten helps Tibetans and all sentient beings, then of course I am ready.'
With meditations, the Nechung kuten prepares for the possession

Question: Did they have to conduct certain tests to ensure that the spirit that entered you was not a different one?

Answer: His Holiness tested me while I was in trance. It was through rigorous testing that I became the Nechung kuten.

Question: The Nechung spirit is described as forceful (wrathful). Buddhism is associated with non-violence and compassion, yet here we have this deity who is full of force.

Answer: All of the oracles are in forceful form.

Question: Why?

Answer: A useful comparison is the family: If the children don't listen to the compassionate mother, the father sometimes has to be forceful so the children will listen. The motive, which is compassionate, is for the children to listen to good advice from their parents. Likewise, we have well-behaved human beings, and not-well-behaved human beings. The oracles are in forceful form so people will actually listen to them.

Question: I believe the oracle was consulted very recently. What were you asked and what were the prophecies?

Answer: His Holiness the Dalai Lama, members of the government, and high lamas were there. But I don't know what I said, because I was in trance.

Just before the trance, I see and sense what is going on around me. But then my senses dissolve, and I do not correctly remember what has happened and been said.

Question: How many times are you consulted in a year?

Answer: There's no fixed number. Whenever His Holiness needs, he asks me to go into a trance. And the Tibetan government consults with me two times, once in summer and once in winter.

Question: How many times did His Holiness request you last year?

Answer: Around seven or eight times.


Question : And you never know what you're asked and what answers you give?

Answer: Many people ask that question. I tell them it's like last night, you had a dream or many different dreams, and in the morning you can't remember them clearly. It's that kind of feeling. The first time I saw myself on video, I thought: That's not me.

Question: So you wouldn't know what you've been consulted about?

Answer: I don't know. But let me make this clear: They don't simply rely on the prophecies of the Nechung oracle. We follow a democratic process. Everything is discussed in the parliament and the cabinet, and if they are not clear, or want to hear the opinions or prophecies of the oracle, they will consult. Ultimately, the decision depends on them, not the oracle.

Bringing up the oracle Khadro-la that you also mentioned above, here is a video where she is featured (along with other oracles and the Dalai Lama in discussion. I watched this a few years ago and had misplaced it - the film is on a site named 'Dharma Documentaries' (it is close to an hour long).

"David Cherniack looks at the place of the Oracles in Tibetan Buddhism (original title is: The Oracle, Reflections on Self)..."

Note: looked up Cherniack to see what he is about - clues to this film and the way it is presented. Should have recognised him from the 'Man Alive' CBC series. Here is what Linkedin says:

David Cherniack has made more than 60 films.
After an undergraduate degree in Physics at Manitoba he spent four years at the Prague Film Academy (FAMU) studying dramatic direction under Otakar Vavra and Evald Schorm.
On returning to Canada he was one of the founders of the Winnipeg Film Group. In the late 70's he made Coming and Going, a cinema verité exploration of life on a palliative care ward and Sharp and Terrible Eyes, following teenagers in the juvenile justice system both for the CBC. From 1981, and over the next 13 years, he did documentaries at CBC’s documentary anthology series, Man Alive, where he filmed with many spiritual leaders from all traditions..
As an independent he began shooting and editing his own films with Sleepwalking Mongolia in 1998. He completed the innovative 26 part Spiritual Literacy (1999). From 2000-2003 he made Reservation , a cinema verité feature and miniseries that follows life on a remote BC reserve over the course of a year.
In 2005, with permission from H.H. the Dalai Lama that had never before been granted, he was allowed to film The Oracle, a documentary about the State Oracles of Tibet.
His 2008 feature documentary UFOs: The Secret History is the first feature documentary to take an in-depth look at the cultural history of the UFO phenomenon.
In 2010 he completed a two-part series about the issues Buddhism is facing among Western practitioners.
Retreat (2013) is a feature documentary that follows 35 Westerners through an intense 8-week meditation retreat in Thailand.

 

[thorbiorn]

Now as stated below (interview), apparently there are tests with the State Nechung conducted by the Dalai Lama himself, although there are likely many old high lamas who pay attention - they may see what the average don't see/hear and know what is being said and not said - is it clear, or is it poppycock.

In Ghandi a evil racist similarly to the Dalai Lama."Tibet Paradise" Myth. M.Teresa in the third excerpt, or the first after the two about the story about Shambhavi, there are also a few tests described. In the video they speak about the tests especially in connection with Namsel Donma/Khadro-la and one not described in the text, was that the prospective Tenma oracle was present at a session with the Nechung Oracle and he accepted her: Below is a description of how this process of recognition of the Nechung Oracle took place:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...acle_of_Tibet_Spirit_Possession_and_Shamanism It is from page 86-87 and 88-89

As a final test, on an auspicious date the young woman was asked to appear before the Nêchung Oracle, who is able to discern the true identity of spirits possessing people. Traditionally, in this test, the Nêchung kuten and the candidate being tested enter into trance at the same time. The Nêchung Oracle will then throw grains of consecrated barley at the candidate. If truly possessed by a dharmapāla, the candidate will remain in trance and reciprocate by offering the Oracle a ceremonial scarf, or khata (kha btags). If the possessing entity is a minor spirit, or a malevolent wandering ghost, the candidate’s trance terminates abruptly and the possessing entity flees.

In the case of Namsel Donma, the test was positive. Nêchung Chökyong determined that she was possessed by the high ranking goddess Tenma and her emanations. The young woman received official recognition from the Dalai Lama and participates in official ceremonies when oracular performances are needed. However, according to my informants, there was some controversy over this case. Some high lamas were concerned that she could not control her trances. Also, certain members of Namgyal Monastery were displeased by the status conferred
upon her, which again illustrates the politicization of the Tibetan oracular phenomenon.7

During the late 1990s, the Dalai Lama also officially recognized another medium, an elderly woman named Kelsang Dolma, as the medium of the Youdonma (g.yu sgron ma) Oracle. Her recognition came because members of the Institute of Buddhist Dialectics (IBD), the highly regarded establishment for the study of Buddhist philosophy, literature, and language, valued her opinions very highly and consulted her twice a year. It was due to her reputation among the geshés and monks at IBD that she was incorporated into the network of officially recognized mediums. She also participates in state sponsored functions, as well as working as a prognosticator who gives advice to private clients. In the latter capacity, she works out of her tiny apartment
in Dharamsala.

Thus, unlike the pawos, la pas, and lu pas, who are more or less marginalized, lay mediums of high ranking deities undergo what could be called a form of certification by the state and are integrated as auxiliary
functionaries into the religio-political hierarchy, thereby confining their field of activities within boundaries set by the religious establishment.
[...]
The oracular language is poetic, vague, and cryptic, but many pronouncements are clearly understood. In the
past, a monk standing by wrote down and recorded the utterances for later clarification and interpretation. These days, videotapes and digital recordings of the oracular prophecies are made for the same purposes.

At the end of the video, the Dalai Lama explains that the use of oracles and divination is appropriate, when there is a dilemma and there are things to take into account that one can't know, and he adds that one should use one's own judgement to decide what to do. I thought this position was reasonable. Also the top ranking people around the Dalai Lama, are educated in their own way and have trained intellects which probably helps them to get a better connection through the mediums they use than would otherwise have been the case. Apart from Tibetan Buddhists it should come as no surprise if there around the world are governments where one of the consultants or officials, if not the ministers themselves make use of divination, they are just not open about it.

One thing about the forum and Laura's writing has been years and years of testing - nothing is for sure, there are nuances and a certain way you have to look at these things. Now as stated below (interview), apparently there are tests with the State Nechung conducted by the Dalai Lama himself, although there are likely many old high lamas who pay attention - they may see what the average don't see/hear and know what is being said and not said - is it clear, or is it poppycock.

There is a lack of clear understanding of hyperdimensional realities and how the feeding to STS takes place, which include some of the practices institutionalized in organized religion, but then that is not a challenge unique for Tibetan Buddhism. One other weakness, as I see it, is that the reference point is primarily Buddhist literature rather than a search for true knowledge in general, including a willingness to discard old ideas if they do not work or better understandings have been found. The Dalai Lama mentions that modern science is occupied with what one can see and measure, but by now science is so advanced that in some fields one can glimpse a substratum of cosmic intelligence guiding life, organisms, cells, the design and construction of molecular machines.

 

[thorbiorn]

There is a lack of clear understanding of hyperdimensional realities and how the feeding to STS takes place, which include some of the practices institutionalized in organized religion, but then that is not a challenge unique for Tibetan Buddhism. One other weakness, as I see it, is that the reference point is primarily Buddhist literature rather than a search for true knowledge in general, including a willingness to discard old ideas if they do not work or better understandings have been found. The Dalai Lama mentions that modern science is occupied with what one can see and measure, but by now science is so advanced that in some fields one can glimpse a substratum of cosmic intelligence guiding life, organisms, cells, the design and construction of molecular machines.

Watching some of the sites and videos in the preparation of a couple of the previous posts I was left with the impression some followers of Tibetan Buddhism live in a bubble in the sense mentioned in this excerpt:

Session 16 August 2014

Session Date: August 16th 2014 Laura and Andromeda at the board Pierre, Perceval, Chu, Data, PoB, Kniall, parallel, Breton, thorbiorn, Mr. Scott, Alana, Timótheos Joining via Skype from NE USA: Pete, Puck, Renaissance, Nancy2feathers, Emma, seek10, Divide By Zero, Richard S, Jerry, Bear, Nuke...

cassiopaea.org

Q: (L) Okay, is there any final bit of advice, or any last thing to say before we shut down for the night?

A: Just work daily at becoming more aware on three levels
1. Body and immediate environment,
2. Wider world affairs,
3. Cosmos and spirit.

Q: (L) Shouldn't "spirit" go with "Body and immediate environment"?

A: No, it is via the first steps that one achieves cosmic consciousness.

Q: (L) I don't understand.

(Chu) You have to work on the body and environment, and then understand the wider world at first. And then you can develop cosmic consciousness and spirit.

(L) Oooh. So in other words, to achieve cosmic consciousness, i.e. true spiritual advancement, you have to expand your field of vision to be very wide?

A: Exactly. Those who suggest that you must look only within live in a singular bubble.

Q: (L) Alright. Anything else?

A: No. Goodbye.

 

[thorbiorn]

Quite a bit has been written about Tibetan Buddhism in this thread already, so I continue. Recently I learned there is something called "Zula-Khural" or the Feast of thousands of lamps (from Mongolian zul -lamp, lamp, Hural - worship) is performed on 25-th day of the first winter month by lunar calendar. The first winter month most be December, so it will be very close to Winter Solstice.
Below is a card from the page of Kermen Mandzhieva I. made as teaching material for students. The explanation is "festival of thousands of lamps-dedicated to the founder of the school Tsongkhapa" The drawing is by Nicolas Roerich, the Russian artist, scientist, explorer etc. and a contemporary of George Gurdjieff.


About the Buddhist calendar I found Buddhist Calendar which mentions that the years begins in the zodiacal sign of Aries.

Another similarity between the Hindu calendar and the Buddhist system is the fact that the new year begins as the Sun traverses into the zodiac sign of Aries. [...] At present, the Buddhist New Year falls into the second half of April, although there are regional variations.

Apparently there are variations of the above interpretation: I tried another calendar,
Тибетский календарь на 2019 год Земляной Свиньи от Ламы Пурэвсурэна (Монголия) | Тибетский календарь на 2019 год Земляной Свиньи | Библиотека | Центр тибетской медицины КУНПЕН ДЕЛЕК but more high resolution pdf is published by one Buddhist group and they have marked their own celebrations

https://mk0buddhaweeklyqoftb.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Buddha-Weekly-Calendar-2019-web5.pdf

And from В Бурятии совершат подношение 1000 небесных лампад the news for this year is:

From 20 to 22 December in all temples of the Buddhist traditional Sangha of Russia will take place the majestic great Church of "Zula Khural", the feast of thousands of lamps. This year Zula Khural dedicated to the 600th anniversary of the departure of Paranirvana Buddha Bogdo of Sonhava.

On the first day, December 20, will be held Hural Ganjur – reading a complete collection of all the teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha.

600 years because the founder passed away in 1419.

The following is from the Russian Wiki Зул — Википедия

The feast of lamps

(Kalm. Zul-Hural, zul-Hural; Mong. Sulyn Hural; TIB. The Ganden Gamco) is a celebration of the passing from this world of the founder of the Tibetan Buddhist school of Gelug, je Tsongkhapa. It is noted followers of the school of Gelug 25-th day of the 10 lunar month in the Buddhist calendar. Traditionally celebrated in Russia, the Buryats, Kalmyks and Tuvinians. It got its name from the fact that in this holiday it is customary to light the lamps (zul).
About Zonkapa
In Buddhism this day is a day of remembrance of the death (day care Nirvana) founder of the Tibetan school,Gelugpa reformer and philosopher of je Tsongkhapa (1357—1419). Lama Tsongkhapa, the revered in Tibet as a second Buddha, and his two compositions, such as Lamrim (on the General path of the Mahayana) and the "Nehrim" (dedicated to the path of Secret Mantra) — embrace the spiritual practice of Buddhism in its entirety. He Conhave at the end of life asked students not to be sad that they have not met him personally, and to read two of the said work, it would be tantamount to a personal meeting.
[...]
Created by Tszonhavy school Gelug became the most influential of all schools of Tibet. The head of school carries the title of Gyalwa (TIB. winner) is considered as the incarnation of bodhisattva Avalokitesvara. Since the mid XVII century the Gelug school established in Mongolia, Buryatia, Kalmykia and Tuva.

You can see regions just mentioned on the map below Southern, Eastern and Northern Buddhism - Wikipedia. Buryatia is above the state of Mongolia as you can find on the Wiki


The Buddhist in Kalmikya, Buryatia og Mongolia Buddhist belong to the Gelug school. Next I will place them in context of the other schools of Tibetan Buddhism, this is not particularly easy as there are many twist and turns. In a previous post there was:

One point Goldner makes is that Tibetan Buddhism is Vajrayana Buddhism, a branch of Mahayana Buddhism which he claims is more ritualistic than the older form, Hinayana Buddhism. On this page there is an overview Branches of Buddhism

The spread of Buddhism
On another page, they say II.) Diffusion of Buddhism - Buddhism:

The spread of Buddhism began with the Emporer Ashoka in the 3rd century BCE. He ruled the Mauryan empire and converted to Buddhism after he saw the violent conquest for land. In order to instill non-violence into the empire, he began to incorporate Buddhist principles into the way he ruled the empire. Ashoka began sending monks to neighboring territories in order to spread Buddhism. It not only spread to India but also internationally. It spread to many to countries in the south and central Asian regions.

What is possibly interesting about the expansion of Buddhism is that it followed in the wake of the conquests of Alexander the Great: Pauravas - Wikipedia

Alexander would die on his way back from India.[2] The instability that ensued after Alexanders death resulted in a power struggle and dramatic changes in governance. Porus was soon assassinated by the Macedonia general Eudemus. By 316 BC, the Macedonian entity was conquered by Chandragupta Maurya, a young adventurer, who later conquered the Nanda Empire and founded the Indian Maurya Empire. After engaging and winning the Seleucid–Mauryan war for supremacy over the Indus Valley, Chandragupta gained controlled of modern-day Punjab and Afghanistan. This set the foundations of the Mauryan Empire, which would become the largest empire in the Indian subcontinent.[3]

Some history about the schools of Buddhism especially related to Tibetan Buddhism
The history of the schools of Buddhism is complicated as can be seen from Early Buddhist schools - Wikipedia and there have been several changes through the centuries and the spread of Buddhism in India declined after some time: History of Buddhism in India - Wikipedia which mentions

The practice of Buddhism as a distinct and organized religion lost influence after the Gupta reign (c.7th century CE), and declined from the land of its origin in around the 13th century, but not without leaving a significant impact on other local religious traditions. Except for the Himalayan region and south India, Buddhism almost became extinct in India after the arrival of Islam in the late 12th century.

On the Wiki for Vajrayana which is often related with Tibetan Buddhism there was:

Vajrayāna (वज्रयान ဝဇိယယာန), Mantrayāna, Tantrayāna, Tibetan Buddhism,Tantric Buddhism and Esoteric Buddhism are terms referring to the various Buddhist traditions of Tantra and "Secret Mantra", which developed in medieval India and spread to Tibet, Bhutan, and East Asia. In Tibet, Buddhist Tantra is termed Vajrayāna, while in China it is generally known as Tángmì Hanmi 漢密 (唐密, "Chinese Esotericism") or Mìzōng (密宗, "Esoteric Sect"), in Pali it is known as Pyitsayãna (ပစ္စယာန), and in Japan it is known as Mikkyō (密教, "secret teachings").

Vajrayāna is usually translated as Diamond Vehicle or Thunderbolt Vehicle, referring to the vajra, a mythical weapon which is also used as a ritual implement.

Founded by medieval Indian Mahāsiddhas, Vajrayāna subscribes to the literature known as the Buddhist Tantras.[1] It includes practices that make use of mantras, dharanis, mudras, mandalas and the visualization of deities and Buddhas. According to Vajrayāna scriptures, the term Vajrayāna refers to one of three vehicles or routes to enlightenment, the other two being the Śrāvakayāna (also known pejoratively as the Hīnayāna) and Mahāyāna.

On Amitabh Bhatt's answer to What are some interesting facts about Buddhism? - Quora there was another illustration of the different schools that similar to Goldner places Tibetan Buddhism under Vajrayana:

On the above illustration we find the Gelug school, I mentioned in the beginning as one of four other schools of Tibetan Buddhism

The oldest school, the Nyingma was inspired by an Indian Buddhist, Padmasambhava

Padmasambhava - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Padmasambhava

[note 1] (lit. "Lotus-Born"), also known as Guru Rinpoche, was an 8th-century Buddhist master from the Indian subcontinent. Although there was a historical Padmasambhava, little is known of him apart from helping the construction of the first Buddhist monastery in Tibet at Samye, at the behest of Trisong Detsen,[1] and shortly thereafter leaving Tibet due to court intrigues.[2]

A number of legends have grown around Padmasambhava's life and deeds, and he is widely venerated as a "second Buddha" by adherents of Tibetan Buddhism in Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan, the Himalayan states of India, and elsewhere.[3][4]

In Tibetan Buddhism, he is a character of a genre of literature called terma,[2] an emanation of Amitābha that is said to appear to tertöns in visionary encounters and a focus of guru yoga practice, particularly in the Rimé schools. The Nyingma school considers Padmasambhava to be a founder of their tradition.[5] [...]Amitābha means "Infinite Light", and Amitāyus means "Infinite Life" so Amitābha is also called "The Buddha of Immeasurable Light and Life".https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmasambhava#cite_note-6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmasambhava#cite_note-6
To understand the introduction of Buddhism in Tibet it might help to know more about Trisong Detsen where the Wiki has:

Trisong Detsen is very important to the history of Tibetan Buddhism as one of the three 'Dharma Kings' (Tibetan:chosgyal) who established Buddhismin Tibet. The Three Dharma Kings were Songtsen Gampo, Trisong Detsen, and Ralpacan.
[...]
Indian traditions
Trisong became emperor in 755 and, in post-imperial sources, is claimed to have invited Padmasambhava, Śāntarakṣita, Vimalamitra, and various other Indian teachers to come to Tibet to spread the latest understanding of the teaching. The two pandits began by establishing Samye as the first vihara in Tibet. Several Tibetans were eventually initiated as monks and a vast translation project was undertaken translating the Buddhist scriptures from Sanskrit into Classical Tibetan.[3]
Chinese traditions
The first documented dissemination of Chan Buddhism to Tibet, chronicled in what has become known as the Statements of the Sba Family, occurred in about 761 when Trisong Detsen sent a party to the Yizhou region to receive the teachings of Kim Hwasang, a Korean Chan master, who they encountered in Sichuan. The party received teachings and three Chinese texts from Kim, who died soon after.[4]

Trisong Detsen patronised a second party to China in 763. This second expedition was headed by a high minister, Sba Gsalsnan. There is scholarly dissent about whom Gsalsnan encountered in Yizhou. Early scholarship considered Kim, but this had been revised to Baotang Wuzhu (714-774), head and founder of Baotang Monastery in Chengdu. Both Kim and Baotang Wuzhu were of the same school of Chan, the East Mountain Teaching.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisong_Detsen#cite_note-Ray,_Gary_L._2007-4The East Mountain Teaching is a branch Chinese Buddhism and appears in a Wiki series on Zen types of Mahayana Buddhism.

Faith in Buddhism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Faith in early Buddhism focused on the Triple Gem, that is, the Buddha; his teaching (the dharma); and finally, the community of spiritually developed followers or the monastic community seeking enlightenment (the saṅgha). A faithful devotee was called an upāsaka or upāsika, a status for which no formal initiation was required. Early Buddhism valued personal verification of spiritual truth highest in attaining such truth, and considered sacred scriptures, reason or faith in a teacher less valuable sources of authority. As important as faith was, it was merely a first step on the path to wisdom and enlightenment, and was made obsolete or redefined at the final stage of that path. Early Buddhism did not morally condemn peaceful offerings to deities. Throughout the history of Buddhism, the worship of deities, often from pre-Buddhist and animist origins, was appropriated or transformed into Buddhist practices and beliefs. As part of this process, such deities were explained as subordinate to the Triple Gem, which still kept a central role.

In the later stratum of Buddhist history, especially in Mahāyāna Buddhism, faith was given a much more important role. Mahāyāna introduced devotion to Buddhas and bodhisattvas residing in Pure Lands and with the rise of devotion to the Amithaba Buddha in Pure Land Buddhism faith gained a central role in Buddhist practice. The Japanese form of Pure Land Buddhism, under the teachers Hōnen and Shinran, believed that only entrusting faith toward the Amitābha Buddha was a fruitful form of practice, as it dismissed celibacy, meditation and other Buddhist practices as no longer effective, or as contradicting the virtue of faith. Pure Land Buddhists defined faith as a state similar to enlightenment, with a sense of self-negation and humility. Mahayana sutras, such as the Lotus Sutra, became objects of worship, and the recitation and copying of these sutras were believed to create great merit. The impact of faith in Buddhist religiosity became pivotal in millenarian movements in several Buddhist countries, which sometimes resulted in the destruction of royal dynasties and other important political changes.

Some of the the elements of Pure Land Buddhism resonates with elements of Protestant Christianity with its emphasis on the text of the Bible and faith not in Amitābha Buddha but in Jesus Christ, as also with varieties of Islam and the role the of the Quran.

The Kagyu school of Tibetan Buddhism also has history that was inspired by Buddhism in India.

Marpa Lotsāwa

(མར་པ་ལོ་ཙཱ་བ་ཆོས་ཀྱི་བློ་གྲོས་, 1012–1097), sometimes known fully as Marpa Chökyi Lodrö (Wylie: mar pa chos kyi blo gros) or commonly as Marpa the Translator (Marpa Lotsāwa), was a Tibetan Buddhist teacher credited with the transmission of many Vajrayana teachings from India, including the teachings and lineages of Mahamudra. Due to this the Kagyu lineage, which he founded, is often called Marpa Kagyu in his honour.[1]

Although some accounts relate that the Mahasiddha Naropa was the personal teacher of Marpa, other accounts suggest that Marpa held Naropa's lineage through intermediary disciples only.[2] Either way, Marpa was a personal student of the Mahasiddha Maitripa and of the dakini Niguma.[3]

For a historian the history of Tibetan Buddhism offers similar challenges to other alleged historical records. Here is an example from the Wiki on Mahasiddha Mahasiddha - Wikipedia

According to Ulrich von Schroeder for the identification of Mahasiddhas inscribed with Tibetan names it is necessary to reconstruct the Indian names. This is a very difficult task because the Tibetans are very inconsistent with the transcription or translation of Indian personal names and therefore many different spellings do exist. When comparing the different Tibetan texts on mahasiddhas, we can see that the transcription or translation of the names of the Indian masters into the Tibetan language was inconsistent and confused. The most unsettling example is an illustrated Tibetan block print from Mongolia about the mahasiddhas, where the spellings in the text vary greatly from the captions of the xylographs.[12]

Tibetan Buddhist schools have elements of the Vajrayana variety of Buddhism
On the Wiki for Vajrayana the beginning of this movement is explained

Mahasiddha movement[edit]
Tantric Buddhism can be traced back to groups of wandering yogis called Mahasiddhas (great adepts).[2] According to Reynolds (2007), the mahasiddhas date to the medieval period in the North India (3–13 cen. CE) and used methods that were radically different than those used in Buddhist monasteries, including living in forests and caves and practicing meditation in charnel grounds similar to those practiced by Shaiva Kapalika ascetics.[3] These yogic circles came together in tantric feasts (ganachakra) often in sacred sites (pitha) and places (ksetra) which included dancing, singing, sex rites and the ingestion of taboosubstances like alcohol, urine, meat, etc.[4] At least two of the Mahasiddhas cited in the Buddhist literature are comparable with the Shaiva Nath saints (Gorakshanath and Matsyendranath) who practiced Hatha Yoga.

And later:

Many of the elements found in Buddhist tantric literature are not wholly new. Earlier Mahayana sutras already contained some elements which are emphasized in the Tantras, such as mantras and dharani.[9] The use of protective verses or phrases actually dates back to the Vedic period and can be seen in the early Buddhist texts, where they are termed paritta. Mahayana texts like the Kāraṇḍavyūhasūtra expound the use of mantras such as Om mani padme hum, associated with vastly powerful beings like Avalokiteshvara. The practice of visualization of Buddhas such as Amitābha is also seen in pre-tantric texts like the Longer Sukhāvatīvyūha Sūtra.[10] There are other Mahayana sutras which contain "proto-tantric" material such as the Gandavyuha sutra and the Dasabhumika which might have served as a central source of visual imagery for Tantric texts.[11]

Vajrayana developed a large corpus of texts called the Buddhist Tantras, some of which can be traced to at least the 7th century CE but might be older.

They give the etymology of Vajra as:

According to Asko Parpola, the Sanskrit Vajra- and Avestan Vazra- both refer to a weapon of the Godhead, and are possibly from the Proto-Indo-European root *weg'- which means "to be(come) powerful." It is related to Proto-Finno-Uralic*vaśara, "hammer, axe", but both the Sanskrit and Finno-Ugric derivatives are likely Proto-Aryan or Proto-Indo-Aryan, but not Proto-Iranian, state Parpola and Carpelan, because of its palatalized sibilant.[3][4][5]

The meaning of the "Proto-Finno-Uralic*vaśara, "hammer, axe"," might connect to Mjonir or the hammer of Thor. If one tries the English Wiki and check out a few other languages like the Spanish one may have some idea of the similarities. These again pages trace the roots back to the Bronze age and symbols for the Swastika. Taken together it might indicate cultural exchanges and influences across the Eurasian continent dating back much further than ofen considered.
In the history of the Vajrayana branch was mentioned the Mahasiddhas

The exact genealogy and historical dates of the Mahasiddhas are contentious. Dowman (1986) holds that they all lived between 750 and 1150 CE.

One Mahasiddha, Virupa is claimed to be the founder of the Sakya school

Virupa

(Skt. Virūpa; Tib. bi ru pa or bir wa pa, lit. "ugly one"), also known as Virupaksa and Tutop Wangchuk, was an 11th or 12th century Indian mahasiddha and yogi, and the source of important cycles of teachings in Tibetan Buddhism. [...]
He is especially known as the source of the Lamdré ("path-fruit", Skt. mārga-phala) system held by the Sakya school and is thus seen as the Indian founder of their lineage.[2]

Finally the Gelug school, which has been mentioned in many posts, here is the Wiki

The Gelug (Wylie: dGe-Lugs-Pa) is the newest of the schools of Tibetan Buddhism.[1] It was founded by Je Tsongkhapa (1357–1419), a philosopher and Tibetan religious leader. The first monastery he established was named Ganden (which gives an alternative name to the Gelug school, the Ganden-Pa), and to this day the Ganden Tripa is the nominal head of the school, though its most influential figure is the Dalai Lama. Allying themselves with the Mongols as a powerful patron, the Gelug emerged as the pre-eminent Buddhist school in Tibet and Mongoliasince the end of the 16th century.

The Gelug school was also called the "New Kadam", because it saw itself a revival of the Kadam school founded by Atisha.[2]

"Ganden" is the Tibetan rendition of the Sanskrit name "Tushita", the Pure land associated with Maitreya Buddha. At first, Tsongkhapa's school was called "Ganden Choluk" meaning "the Spiritual Lineage of Ganden". By taking the first syllable of 'Ganden' and the second of 'Choluk', this was abbreviated to "Galuk" and then modified to the more easily pronounced "Gelug".[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelug#cite_note-3

The Gelug (Wylie: dGe-Lugs-Pa) is the newest of the schools of Tibetan Buddhism.[1] It was founded by Je Tsongkhapa (1357–1419), a philosopher and Tibetan religious leader. The first monastery he established was named Ganden (which gives an alternative name to the Gelug school, the Ganden-Pa), and to this day the Ganden Tripa is the nominal head of the school, though its most influential figure is the Dalai Lama. Allying themselves with the Mongols as a powerful patron, the Gelug emerged as the pre-eminent Buddhist school in Tibet and Mongoliasince the end of the 16th century.

The Gelug school was also called the "New Kadam", because it saw itself a revival of the Kadam school founded by Atisha.[2]

"Ganden" is the Tibetan rendition of the Sanskrit name "Tushita", the Pure land associated with Maitreya Buddha. At first, Tsongkhapa's school was called "Ganden Choluk" meaning "the Spiritual Lineage of Ganden". By taking the first syllable of 'Ganden' and the second of 'Choluk', this was abbreviated to "Galuk" and then modified to the more easily pronounced "Gelug".[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelug#cite_note-3About the relation between Kadam and its founder there is Atiśa - Wikipedia

Atiśa Dīpaṃkara Śrījñāna (Bengali: অতীশ দীপংকর শ্রীজ্ঞান, romanized: otish dipônkor sriggan; Standard Tibetan: ཇོ་བོ་རྗེ་དཔལ་ལྡན་ཨ་ཏི་ཤ།; Chinese: 燃燈吉祥智; pinyin: Rándēng Jíxiángzhì) (982–1054) was a Bengali Buddhist religious leader and master from the Indian subcontinent.[2] He was one of the major figures in the spread of 11th-century Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism in Asia and inspired Buddhist thought from Tibet to Sumatra. In 1013, he travelled to the kingdom of Srivijaya and stayed there for 12 years before returning to India. He is recognised as one of the greatest figures of classical Buddhism. Atiśa's chief disciple, Dromtön, was the founder of the Kadam school,[3] one of the New Translation schools of Tibetan Buddhism, later supplanted by the Gelug tradition in the 14th century, adopting its teachings and absorbing its monasteries.[4] In 2004, Atiśa was ranked 18th in the BBC's poll of the greatest Bengalis of all time.[5][6][7]

 

[angelburst29]

Tibetans mark the 80th anniversary of the enthronement of their spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, on Saturday (Feb. 22, 2020).

Factbox: The Dalai Lama - ten facts about Tibet's spiritual leader

Ahead of the celebrations, here are ten facts about Tibet’s spiritual leader:

1. Born in 1935 as Lhamo Thondup, the current Dalai Lama was proclaimed as the reincarnation of his predecessor at the age of two, when he is said to have identified several of his possessions.

2. After a three-month journey from his home village he was enthroned on Feb. 22, 1940, at a ceremony in Lhasa, capital of the autonomous Tibet region that is now part of China.

3. China invaded Tibet in 1950. The teenage Dalai Lama assumed a political role shortly after, traveling to Beijing to meet Mao Zedong and other Chinese leaders.

4. After a failed Tibetan uprising against Chinese rule, the Dalai Lama fled to India in early 1959. He went into exile in the northern hill town of Dharamshala, where he still lives.

5. Since his flight from Tibet, China has accused the leader of being a dangerous separatist, and said any attempt to meet him is a “major offense”. In 2012, Beijing canceled a planned visit by then-British Prime Minister David Cameron after he hosted the Dalai Lama in London.

6. The Dalai Lama wakes at 3am and meditates for several hours, according to a sample of his diary on his official website. After a breakfast of porridge and tsampa, a traditional barley flour, he spends the morning reading Buddhist texts, before holding audiences in the afternoon. He retires by 7pm.

7. His interests include cosmology, neurobiology, quantum physics and psychology, he told Reuters in an interview last year.

8. He has been granted dozens of honorary doctorates and awards for his leadership of the Tibetan community, including the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989.

9. The fourteenth Dalai Lama has said the decision whether to retain the role after his death will be made by the Tibetan people, not the Chinese government, which claims the right to choose his successor. “If the majority of (Tibetan people) really want to keep this institution, then this institution will remain,” he told Reuters.

10. Despite his veneration by Tibetans - and mistrust from China - the Dalai Lama says he spends most of his time on spiritual activities, not political affairs. “I always consider myself as a simple Buddhist monk,” he said on his official website. “I feel that is the real me.”