Giving to street children and beggars

[Seraphina]

they probably didn't know to ask, or who to ask, or even that anything would even come of asking. You have not broken free will. You have not forced anyone to go. As said before, build it and they will come, you provided more choice for free will. Making tools available for intellectual advancement enhances free will. Unless one is only offering ideology slanted indoctrination aimed at control...(sounds kinda like the American school system).

 

[Guardian]

My question then is: In these cases, what is giving? Sometimes I hesitate to give not because there are too many of them, but because I wonder if giving will really help these children/men, or will it make it worse for them? Knowing that these children are part of a large underground organization who makes large amount of profits from them, and the money I give will only end up in those psychopaths hands, what can be done and what would you do?

If you can afford it, I would keep a sack of small coinage to give to them. When the sack's empty, show them.

Yeah, it's a racket, and psychopathic adults get the money, but it's innocent children who suffer if they don't "produce" ...so I'd help make it a tiny bit easier on them that day if I could.

 

[Guardian]

The Cs have said that money is a symbol for energy here in this 3D world we live in.

Well yes...but wouldn't money more likely represent STS energy? Giving/STO energy has always seemed more limitless to me.

 

[NormaRegula]

But what if their lesson in this situation, what they have been looking to learn in all their wandering, is that despite the hardships that befell them, there are good and caring people in the world? And that it is worth it and possible for them to clean up their lives and better themselves, so they can help others too? Then, deciding against asissting them with food and shelter after having considered it, would indeed be interfering with their lessons, and depriving yourself of a rightful part in them and who knows what besides.

I had never thought about it this way. From what I understand, giving in this sense also includes responding-in a non-anticipatory way- so that it may open up their minds in a positive way, providing a broader outlook with choices.

Yes. That's a good way to look at a giving situation. Constructing something, be it a school, a place of safety or a virtual forum like this one, may help others to discover the truth and/or the realization that there are good and caring people in this world as Hildegarda pointed out. If one is participating without looking for a reward or unrealistic expectations of what this world constitutes as a success, something positive may grow from that energy expenditure.

It's pretty obvious the school you and your friend helped to build is useful...and was needed. :)

Being non-anticipatory by building something useful for an obvious need still carries with it a bit of hope - which is different from wishful-thinking as is the case of some social workers and political/religious reformers who believe they are doing the right thing (and will be rewarded) by forcing persons to change their behavior via moral condemnation, restrictive laws or offering a limited and manipulative set of "choices" in order for a person who is down and out to survive.

If we as creative beings did nothing for fear of interfering with another's free will, nothing would be done. And this world would sink further into entropy. Might as well gaze at our navels and think "love and light" thoughts while the darkness overtakes us in our sleep.

 

[NormaRegula]

The Cs have said that money is a symbol for energy here in this 3D world we live in.

Well yes...but wouldn't money more likely represent STS energy? Giving/STO energy has always seemed more limitless to me.

If one is talking material money as in coinage and paper bills, STS forces do control the physical manufacture of it...and to a very large extent how it is used via programming of the masses.

However, money as an energy exchange symbol can be used for both STS and STO in this world.

I agree that there is limitless, non-monetary, creative energy that could be utilized on this forum and for other STO causes to get the truth out. Yet in this world, at this particular time, one still needs material money to get STO ideas to move. The two of us wouldn't be exchanging energy here on this forum had not the Chateau folks paid their ISP. :)

My question then is: In these cases, what is giving? Sometimes I hesitate to give not because there are too many of them, but because I wonder if giving will really help these children/men, or will it make it worse for them? Knowing that these children are part of a large underground organization who makes large amount of profits from them, and the money I give will only end up in those psychopaths hands, what can be done and what would you do?

If you can afford it, I would keep a sack of small coinage to give to them. When the sack's empty, show them.

Yeah, it's a racket, and psychopathic adults get the money, but it's innocent children who suffer if they don't "produce" ...so I'd help make it a tiny bit easier on them that day if I could.

Why give the situation more power? Don't those children deserve to have such a racket die for lack of energy? Why overtly pay into a pathological, STS system? Better that sack of coins was spent on building or donating to a place of safety for those children who came to the decision that that kind of life was leading them no where.

Let me put it this way: It's a fact that there are child prostitutes in this world. If a prostitute (whatever the age) doesn't produce and bring in enough money for his/her pimp, they usually get starved, beaten or abused. Either way, they are suffering and living a lie whether they bring in the money or not.

Would my having sex with and/or just giving a prostitute some money actually make that situation better for the prostitute...or just further the pain and empower the pimp?

Sure, those beggar children and prostitutes are suffering. Horribly. Yet, wouldn't it be furthering STO to move that money and energy to a safe place that offers help to those who want out of such a painful situation? Or to a beggar or prostitute who genuinely asks for help...and not a manipulative dole for their pimp/handler?

 

[Marcus-Aurelius]

My question then is: In these cases, what is giving? Sometimes I hesitate to give not because there are too many of them, but because I wonder if giving will really help these children/men, or will it make it worse for them? Knowing that these children are part of a large underground organization who makes large amount of profits from them, and the money I give will only end up in those psychopaths hands, what can be done and what would you do?

If you can afford it, I would keep a sack of small coinage to give to them. When the sack's empty, show them.

Yeah, it's a racket, and psychopathic adults get the money, but it's innocent children who suffer if they don't "produce" ...so I'd help make it a tiny bit easier on them that day if I could.

This is how I see it as well. These children are often beaten by those adults if they don't bring something back. So if I can afford it, I just give with the hope that it will alleviate their sufferings if any, not being able to do more at the moment. If it's a racket, I have no way to say with absolute certainty that it is. So I would at least have shared something.

 

[NormaRegula]

My question then is: In these cases, what is giving? Sometimes I hesitate to give not because there are too many of them, but because I wonder if giving will really help these children/men, or will it make it worse for them? Knowing that these children are part of a large underground organization who makes large amount of profits from them, and the money I give will only end up in those psychopaths hands, what can be done and what would you do?

If you can afford it, I would keep a sack of small coinage to give to them. When the sack's empty, show them.

Yeah, it's a racket, and psychopathic adults get the money, but it's innocent children who suffer if they don't "produce" ...so I'd help make it a tiny bit easier on them that day if I could.
This is how I see it as well. These children are often beaten by those adults if they don't bring something back. So if I can afford it, I just give with the hope that it will alleviate their sufferings if any, not being able to do more at the moment. If it's a racket, I have no way to say with absolute certainty that it is. So I would at least have shared something.

Unfortunately, that attitude is just what the pathological handler of a beggar's racket is counting on. Those children are being abused whether they bring in the money or not, OSIT. Certain situations do call for giving. I'm not advocating never to give.

Yet feeding a negative operation so it continues and becomes even more bloated by believing it might save a child or two from abuse may not be a good thing in the long run. Still think it's better not to overtly feed into a STS dynamic and find a better solution to the problem so that those children - of their own free will - who are tired of the abuse and suffering can find a safe escape elsewhere.

It's amazing how the Universe opens up for those souls who act in favor of their destiny.

 

[Gertrudes]

One also has to consider, I think, what "help" is, in terms of what's realistic to achieve for this particular person, what CAN be deemed "success". Yes, some people choose to be this way, or are too far gone to be able to change, but they may still benefit from even a small break or a gesture that includes them with the rest of society.
(...)
Once, we had an activity when kids drew pictures for them. Such a simple thing, but people hang them up in their shacks and kept them up for months. Perhaps that too is some sort of success, I don't know.

True, I also think so.
I suppose that in this context we could assume an achievement as "successful" when something that was given upon being asked for, whatever that something was, is not discarded, but used.
In NormaRegula's example of the abused women she worked with, we could perhaps assume cases where women who have asked for help and been given according support as unsuccessful, if they repeatedly turn back to the abusive situation out of their own choice. That is after having been given the tools that enable them to choose differently.
In my aunt's case, we have families and their children who ask for a better life, and who after having been given the tools to do so keep going back to their old lifestyles, out of their own choice. In their case the payoff, "easy money", seems to overwhelm their power to take any steps towards change.
A successful story in this context would be of someone who has made partial or total use of what has been given to him/her. I'm not sure myself, just building an hypothesis. I also think that we don't really know the deeper effect apparently unfruitful help might have in a struggling individual.

The project was a success, but maybe this could be seen as a violation of their free will? The parents of these children had not asked for improving the conditions of the school. Rather, although the intention was good, I think we were placing our standards of how things should be without them really asking. I didn't see any harm in this aside, and now I do I think the only concern is that they had not asked for help and this violates their free will- but that just may be the problem. Am I thinking on the right track?

I agree with the others. I don't think that you have violated their free will, but rather that you have helped expand free will by giving them more choices. Also good to remember that sometimes we don't ask, because we either don't know we can, or because we aren't even aware of the choices we have.

Why give the situation more power? Don't those children deserve to have such a racket die for lack of energy? Why overtly pay into a pathological, STS system? Better that sack of coins was spent on building or donating to a place of safety for those children who came to the decision that that kind of life was leading them no where.

This is also how I see it. I think that in some cases, giving will only feed the mechanism and perpetuate it.

Edit:clarity

 

[Guardian]

Sure, those beggar children and prostitutes are suffering. Horribly. Yet, wouldn't it be furthering STO to move that money and energy to a safe place that offers help to those who want out of such a painful situation? Or to a beggar or prostitute who genuinely asks for help...and not a manipulative dole for their pimp/handler?

You're probably right NormaRegula... I would most likely be contributing to the problem long term :(

Everything you say is true...but then there's the child who might get a bit more food that night if s/he goes back to his/her "owner" with a few extra coins. Those same coins donated to a "third world humanitarian" org would only be a drop in the bucket ..IF the org officers don't loot donated funds outright.

If there's a chance...even a small one, that the change in my pocket MIGHT help fill a little belly... I'd go for it, even knowing the "big picture" you've so accurately described.

The bottom line is that we don't really know where the coins go after we give them to the children, but we can hear the desperation in their voices when they're begging, and the relief when they say "thank you" for the nickle that some Americans wouldn't even bother to pick up off the ground.

I guess what I feel like we might be giving them is "time" ...helping them, in some small way, to survive to the point that they can make their own choices.

 

[NormaRegula]

Everything you say is true...but then there's the child who might get a bit more food that night if s/he goes back to his/her "owner" with a few extra coins.

As harsh as this may sound, think about the lessons learned by that child who is fed that night...and the lessons learned by the children who watched him/her eat while they went hungry because they did not garner those few extra coins.

The one who is fed learns that he will be rewarded by pleasing his "owner" and decides that he will beg even more in order to have a full belly. The idea of sharing his food is not allowed due to the owner's power over him/her, so the child eventually becomes hardened to the fact that the other children he works with are starving. The child learns to survive in a negative paradigm and passes this dynamic on to others as an example of "success".

And what about the hungry children in that group who displeased their owner? They will either learn to survive as did the child who is fed that night or be abused for not meeting expectations. Perhaps one becomes so hungry, so abused that he/she finally decides to exercise some free will and look for an escape from the suffering. Depending on the path chosen, the escape can lead to more misery, an early death or, if the Universe is willing, the kindness of strangers and the finding of a sanctuary where the child can learn there is more to this life than looking out for number one.

And perhaps that child who found a refuge from his misery grows up and does something creative and hopeful for children in his former situation. It has happened. And will.

Yes, children will still suffer...horribly. Perhaps that is the lesson they must learn here in this life to eventually grow and become something greater. Just be on the look-out for the escapees - and use perspicacity when dealing with stories - not forgetting that there is always risk involved in helping others.

Those same coins donated to a "third world humanitarian" org would only be a drop in the bucket ..IF the org officers don't loot donated funds outright.

That is a definite risk one takes when giving. A bit of knowledge about a reputable charitable organization goes a long way...and those few coins add up if enough people send them in.

I guess what I feel like we might be giving them is "time" ...helping them, in some small way, to survive to the point that they can make their own choices.

That's where the Law of Three and making a decision on an individual basis comes in. We will do what we will do.

Love that big 'ole heart of yours, Guardian.


[Moderator's note: fixed broken quote]

 

[Marcus-Aurelius]

[quote author=NormalRegula]That's where the Law of Three and making a decision on an individual basis comes in.[/quote]
You're probably right NormaRegula.
I think the Law of Three can be key to decide in this subject.

This morning I've been borded by a boy I helped in the past. The boy asked for the second time in two days for money to buy food. I asked him if he has ever think about producing himself the necessary money for his food. He replied to me that he was just looking for a small amount of money to begin a very small commerce, so I showed him the office and asked him to come and see me the next day, what he did, and I gave him the money he requested, telling him I will be glad to meet him some day selling something rather than begging. I couldn't see him on places where I used to for months. And today, I met him: he actually run after me just to show me that he were begging anymore and was now producing his own money. He looked happier than the last time I saw him. And I must say I was also very happy to see him like that. The feeling was just marvelous!

 

[Guardian]

That's where the Law of Three and making a decision on an individual basis comes in. We will do what we will do.

Love that big 'ole heart of yours, Guardian.

Well, I guess we know why I let my passport expire decades ago, and live in a place where even the beggars are a bit chunky.

 

[NormaRegula]

This morning I've been borded by a boy I helped in the past. The boy asked for the second time in two days for money to buy food. I asked him if he has ever think about producing himself the necessary money for his food. He replied to me that he was just looking for a small amount of money to begin a very small commerce, so I showed him the office and asked him to come and see me the next day, what he did, and I gave him the money he requested, telling him I will be glad to meet him some day selling something rather than begging. I couldn't see him on places where I used to for months. And today, I met him: he actually run after me just to show me that he were begging anymore and was now producing his own money. He looked happier than the last time I saw him. And I must say I was also very happy to see him like that. The feeling was just marvelous!

Perhaps someday soon this young man will pass on a bit of energy to another person(s) in similar circumstances. Despite the ugliness and misery that surrounds us, there is always hope that others, through an offer of mindful kindness, will learn to act in favor of their destiny and not rely on others to continually feed their hunger - be it physical or spiritual. :)

 

[NormaRegula]

That's where the Law of Three and making a decision on an individual basis comes in. We will do what we will do.

Love that big 'ole heart of yours, Guardian.

Well, I guess we know why I let my passport expire decades ago, and live in a place where even the beggars are a bit chunky.

At the rate things are going here in the USA, it might not be long before we may actually see and experience 3rd world-like conditions. The PTB can't hide and/or control all of the chaos and suffering that may ensue. All the more reasons it is important to get ones body, mind, and spirit cleansed as best one can via eating well, breathing, and gaining more knowledge for the days to come. Gonna need all the physical strength and perspicacity we can muster to see more clearly - and react in ways that will truly help us to help others act in favor of their free will and destiny.

 

[Nautilus]

[quote author=NormalRegula]That's where the Law of Three and making a decision on an individual basis comes in.

You're probably right NormaRegula.
I think the Law of Three can be key to decide in this subject.

This morning I've been borded by a boy I helped in the past. The boy asked for the second time in two days for money to buy food. I asked him if he has ever think about producing himself the necessary money for his food. He replied to me that he was just looking for a small amount of money to begin a very small commerce, so I showed him the office and asked him to come and see me the next day, what he did, and I gave him the money he requested, telling him I will be glad to meet him some day selling something rather than begging. I couldn't see him on places where I used to for months. And today, I met him: he actually run after me just to show me that he were begging anymore and was now producing his own money. He looked happier than the last time I saw him. And I must say I was also very happy to see him like that. The feeling was just marvelous!
[/quote]

That's a very touching story! I'm glad to see things have turned out well for him. =)