God save croatia

[Deleted member 11729]

What I see here in this recent happenings in Zagreb, is connection with our president as a major NATO puppet in the region - she if from HDZ, ex NATO secretary and member of Trilateral Commission.

What is interesting is that in their past our Prime Minister was in HDZ and he worked closely with our new president, under the government of HDZ Prime Minister who is now in imprisoned.

A little bit form biography of our Prime Minister tooday -

"After college, he became an intern at the Zagreb Commercial Court, and in 1993 for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, ironically being employed by future political rival Ivo Sanader. A year later, he joined an OSCE peacekeeping mission in the Nagorno-Karabakh region, disputed between Armenia and Azerbaijan. In 1996, aged 29, he became an advisor at Croatian mission to the European Union and NATO at Brussels, and two years later he got his Master's degree in EU law from a Brussels university. He returned to the Foreign Ministry in 1999, at the end of his mandate. In 1999, he joined the Social Democratic Party (SDP) as he had not yet been an official member. "

Recent leader of HDZ was a good friend with our Prime Minister, and actually very "interesting" guy.
Here is a biography of the leader of HDZ - interesting to read specially for those who knows who is who in Croatia. You will get surprised. No one ever reacted on this bio and it is still on-line. SO ...

_http://www.dnevno.hr/vijesti/komentari/tomislav-karamarko-biografija-57790-622447-622447-622447

So as we see, they are all interconnected, and Croatia is a typical example of THEM against US - and all this parties are just "circus game" for naive citizens who don't know them in person. New Wife of HDZ president is actually owner of the most lefties cultural Magazine "Zarez" and one of the best friend with all lefties trendsetters in Zagreb and Croatia. SO ... it is all one gang, and they usually work against citizens, but for interest of any group that is ready to bribe them. Their only interest is money and power. It is just so obvious for all of them, except for our Prime Minister.

What we can see so far is that he is working on restrictions towards corruption any how, and so far he is maybe the only one that has no any corruption affair behind him. So far tooday watching the Prime Minister reaction to this recent happenings, I was pleasantly surprised, as at some point, comparing how he was completely non articulated just half a year ago, but since we got a new president he started to be more articulated, and actually I have a feeling like he got a great communication coach, and advice to read some books about fast and slow thinking that are on the WORK list. ;) ( I am joking here, as his progress is fantastic, but who knows )

here is his tooday press conference in Croatian:
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEWRXHHakfs&feature=youtu.be

SO in general I see this new escalation as 2 things:
1. obvious pre election game orchestrated by HDZ and our recent president, but
2. due to the NATO interest to destabilize Balkans again, and desire to stop the Russian gas to come to EU, they are trying also to fire up the nationalism, so in case if they need a mess here it will be again the easiest way to do it on a croatian-serbian antagonism base. So I think this is kind of a similar agenda as they have in Macedonia.

What I am actually looking for to explore more, is what is a game that our primeminister play since January? He obviously in last 6 months doing some moves that are quite good for the country, but this games with veterans can be a joint action with HDZ to keep people defocused from a bigger mess that can happen here again? I don't know. It will not be the first time that politicians will abuse their power to use citizens as a bullet meat for their material interest.

And now while I am writing this I see that the Police union seeks from Prime Minister bigger protection ... I have to laugh as this is all just one circus. WE are part of EU, so we are already enslaved, and only that we can do is on a very individual level, and what is good for most of us in Croatia we own some land, real peace of earth, and we have been know individually as rebellious to any government, and very good at living on minimum, as that is how we survived here through many generations of our families.

Another thing that came to my mind, thinking about recent conflicts in Macedonia, and now recent Serbian cancellation of cooperation with Russia, I feel like that west promised Croatia economical prospect if goverment and army will cooperate in new war on Balkans, on a way that this time war will not affect directly our territory but .... I am sad even to think that they can put us again to kill our neighbours in order to secure our bread. But looking how the protests are orchestrated, today actually government was also announcing exit from 6 years of recession, and all this background of their relationship and greed of our politicians, I am afraid that they work together to put us again to be a war border line between two worlds ... :(

 

[Persej]

I am afraid that they work together to put us again to be a war border line between two worlds ... :(

I don't know about that. It seems that our governments work for the same boss.

_http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/13/Ekonomija/1934533/Mihajlovi%C4%87%3A+Ceo+region+na+istom+putu+.html

I doubt that it was Serbia's idea to build a highway to Albania. We have no interest to build that, no political and no economical.

NATO does not seem to want to destabilize Balkans, they already did that, now they want to incorporate Balkans into NATO and EU and remove us from Russian influence.

We also got a permission for direct flights to USA, as only country in this region, as they say, so it seems that our government is doing what USA likes.

_http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/13/Ekonomija/1934249/Letovi+za+Ameriku+krajem+ove+ili+po%C4%8Detkom+slede%C4%87e+godine.html

 

[Corvus]

One of veteran chiefs gave a press conference in front of the church, where they took asylum last night when police came to drive them away after 10 PM (by law, gatherings in front of the parliament and government buildings on that square are allowed only from 8 AM until 10 PM, that's how I understood the writings in MSM) and said they accepted the PM's offer to meet on Monday, 10 AM.

It is illegal because for public gathering of 3 plus more persons you have to get permission from Ministry of Interior or face misdemeanor charges that two of their unofficial leaders got, and after 10 am you have to leave so the government let them stay even if it was illegal. Same thing is at the Ministry of Veterans. They have changed their tactics and at first represented only their interests and their backers but to get wider support they are supporting other workers that are protesting and saying that they are concerned about people, situation in the country, etc... but it is self interest. They are not manipulated but are only self-centered and looking for their interests, not about other people. It makes you wonder why are they so persistent now with toppling the government while they can wait for couple of months until elections when their backer HDZ would probably win and make constitutional their demands. It stinks from outside interference because it seems the time is short and maybe current government is not absolutely reliable like right wing party. But if you ask me police should have cleared them long ago because the further it drags like it was in Ukraine more fuel is injected. You can not deal with the side that does not want deals but gives only ultimatums. And no, Croats are not rebellious by nature but mostly subservient, like my grandfather said Croats and Muslims in Bosnia never had their I, and history shows that, but that does not reflects all individuals but the spirit of the whole nation. I doubt there will be any neighbor war, all countries in the region are under same control, Serbia showed some promise but politicians there showed their true face, only Macedonia and Greece remains, EU is mostly concerned about "Muslim threat"and is giving all it s donation money to Croatia for eastern border protection and to border police. And there are expensive gadgets from what I have seen and that is why most of the police freshmen from academy will be stationed.

 

[Nević Nenad]

One of veteran chiefs gave a press conference in front of the church, where they took asylum last night when police came to drive them away after 10 PM (by law, gatherings in front of the parliament and government buildings on that square are allowed only from 8 AM until 10 PM, that's how I understood the writings in MSM) and said they accepted the PM's offer to meet on Monday, 10 AM.

It is illegal because for public gathering of 3 plus more persons you have to get permission from Ministry of Interior or face misdemeanor charges that two of their unofficial leaders got, and after 10 am you have to leave so the government let them stay even if it was illegal. Same thing is at the Ministry of Veterans. They have changed their tactics and at first represented only their interests and their backers but to get wider support they are supporting other workers that are protesting and saying that they are concerned about people, situation in the country, etc... but it is self interest. They are not manipulated but are only self-centered and looking for their interests, not about other people. It makes you wonder why are they so persistent now with toppling the government while they can wait for couple of months until elections when their backer HDZ would probably win and make constitutional their demands. It stinks from outside interference because it seems the time is short and maybe current government is not absolutely reliable like right wing party. But if you ask me police should have cleared them long ago because the further it drags like it was in Ukraine more fuel is injected. You can not deal with the side that does not want deals but gives only ultimatums. And no, Croats are not rebellious by nature but mostly subservient, like my grandfather said Croats and Muslims in Bosnia never had their I, and history shows that, but that does not reflects all individuals but the spirit of the whole nation. I doubt there will be any neighbor war, all countries in the region are under same control, Serbia showed some promise but politicians there showed their true face, only Macedonia and Greece remains, EU is mostly concerned about "Muslim threat"and is giving all it s donation money to Croatia for eastern border protection and to border police. And there are expensive gadgets from what I have seen and that is why most of the police freshmen from academy will be stationed.

That was like that in Milosevic' Serbia during the 1990s :D We was young so that was very fun for us. We gathered in group of 3, but with a few meter distance in between the groups. That was fun for the police also, I don't think that someone was charged because of that.

Anyway, I really doubt that there will be any war in this part at this time. Its just that we are all now under the total western influence so we get what they serve to their own people too. French or British for example. The problem is that our mind still are not so programed to think its normal, we see that it is wrong. For example there is campaign against the domestic violence. Not the bad thing per se, but its interesting that it is done through the USA embassy and CIA paid NGOs. Before that there was campaign for women vaccination against breast cancer (and such type of things), of course again done through the western paid NGOs. So you can guess in what purpose they do that.

There is one good thing which came out of all of that psychopathic games: no one believes anything on any news, wast majority of people know that the government are just paid morons and traitors. No respect for them at all, at any level of the society. We are aware that they are here now and that they will be gone one day and things will be different. Also now they (the puppets from the government) know that we know what they are. Black market for the goods are again starting to flourish, which is good because no money goes to the state and the government. At least that is like that in Serbia, I wouldn't know precisely for the other countries on the Balkans.

There is a great interview with Leonid Reshetnikov from the RISI (Russian Institute for Strategic Studies) named 'Battle for Europe' who talks about all of that:

http://ruskiekspres.rs/2015/05/2693/

 

[Anamarija]

I don't think so that will not be war again on croatian land. It doesn't matter where war will begin, they will plant a seeds everywhere.

 

[Persej]

There is a great interview with Leonid Reshetnikov from the RISI (Russian Institute for Strategic Studies) named 'Battle for Europe' who talks about all of that:

http://ruskiekspres.rs/2015/05/2693/

Yes, I like Leonid. I found that interview yesterday in Serbian: http://hr.sott.net/article/1641-Vlast-u-Srbiji-je-pod-kontrolom-SAD

 

[casper]

All Balkan countries are in a very difficult situation, people is enough to find a good-paying job- just a lottery win, many still live in the past, the oldest still retell the Second World War, few younger cry for Tito, today we talk about the people in tents ...
In one Croatian newspaper was published in an anonymous letter of tired student in the fourth year. (the young no one thinks !?).
We need to turn the page.
Quote from the letter:

"Enough talk about you, us six students, a lot of thinking about what is happening in these tents and we do not understand you. Share our colleagues on those who run away from you and to those who still talk about the Ustasha and Partisans. The six of us, not interested your story, is not interested in war, neither the Serbs nor the Chetniks, the Ustasha did not even know who is Klemm, or who Karamarko, for any church will be barricaded next time. Who are you people?

I talked this morning with her grandmother on you. Grandma war exile, her house collapsed and 'our' and 'their'. Grandma heard when the neighbor slain family across the street in the basement. Grandma heard when neighbors executed on the street. Grandma said she does not understand who you are and why even talk about the war. Grandma does not talk about the war, does not want, it's time for it has passed. Grandma just wants to work and that their grandchildren are doing.

Two days ago, I talked with the professor about you. The professor said that your agenda has nothing to do with justice. We spoke and Friday while flying barricades. He said that in every society there are people like you, who live in the past and who live at the expense of others. I stopped by later to it, we're still talking. When I stepped out of the apartment he showed me a picture of her son, who is now in Vukovar. No, I do not live there, there is buried. His bus in the war was between two fires. He was 19.

I talked with colleagues about you. We're not sure who you are. For us, that time has passed. Of the six of us, three of the victims are in the inner circle of the family. Not interested in your agenda. I do not know who Duro Glogoški. Wondering where we were ninety? In maternity hospitals, in shelters, in a car on the way out of the country. Who is this fucking Duro Glogoški?

But tell ... where you have 2015 more in ninety first?

There are more important problems of your pension, of war justice and damaging the cracked shells. Public administration is unlikely tumor, almost all state bodies are more harm than good to the young, but we're not talking about some kind of entrepreneurship. Where is that Croatia of which you speak? Where are the terrible Serbs, as opposed to one unskilled damage to the tax authorities? Did you have any idea what's going on in the real world?

For us, you are an example of a society that is holding us back. An example of those people who do not understand the difference between net and gross, but they do have a comment on any decision of the Government. Of those who do not understand that the war in Croatia is not ready, but do not fight more against Serbs. We are fighting the ghosts of the past and the lack of imagination in the domestic market, against the ties of kinship and against duality party system.

If you really love our country, if you are really fighting for our future, raise a tent for us. One green tent for the young, for the team that just wants to work and create in Croatia. One tent without crosses and without the checkered flag.

One tent for the future, one tent without you. "

 

[Anamarija]

It is easier to bring the past all time then deal with a present and future. They using old techniques how to cover up they criminal.

 

[casper]

It is easier to bring the past all time then deal with a present and future. They using old techniques how to cover up they criminal.

I agree, except that nowadays, the internet time, networking, I think that they do a "little" problem.
People had enough, many raise their hands to yourself, go to work, do not receive salaries, or they get enough to survive. It is sad. Their property cards are no longer available to the public, I wonder why?
What do they fear?

 

[Deleted member 11729]

I am afraid that they work together to put us again to be a war border line between two worlds ... :(

I don't know about that. It seems that our governments work for the same boss.

_http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/13/Ekonomija/1934533/Mihajlovi%C4%87%3A+Ceo+region+na+istom+putu+.html

I doubt that it was Serbia's idea to build a highway to Albania. We have no interest to build that, no political and no economical.

NATO does not seem to want to destabilize Balkans, they already did that, now they want to incorporate Balkans into NATO and EU and remove us from Russian influence.

We also got a permission for direct flights to USA, as only country in this region, as they say, so it seems that our government is doing what USA likes.

_http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/13/Ekonomija/1934249/Letovi+za+Ameriku+krajem+ove+ili+po%C4%8Detkom+slede%C4%87e+godine.html

Yep it looks like that they are doing effort to put all exYU to be EU and NATO, that will be easiest to kick off Russa from the Balkans. But why than they didn't do that in 1990? Why war in Yugoslavia was started? Also why there is significant propagated nationalism rising in both Croatia and Serbia, and not to mention Bosnia that is already targeted as dangerous muslim enclave and possible base for "muslim terrorists".

Also recently in the background of all this political tensions in Croatia major sales of the Croatian companies is going on, today we just learned that Adris group and TDR - our major tobacco producer are sold to British investors. SO yep sales of the country is on the run while politicians are entertaining people with stupid and false conflicts.

And as the highlight of all this exYu affairs we have Vesna Pusic, the most psychopathic female public person and politician in Croatia, very heavily sponsored by Soros money, she and her colleagues, they literary destroyed every atom of Croatian society and culture, and now she is on the list to run for head of UN. What a irony!

There was a joke that EU will fall apart when Croatia enters in ;) ...

 

[Persej]

But why than they didn't do that in 1990?

We were not compatible then with EU. EU was capitalistic and Yugoslavia was communistic. Even now they don't let other countries in before they make all the changes that they want.

Why war in Yugoslavia was started?

Because Serbia said no to their conditions?

Also why there is significant propagated nationalism rising in both Croatia and Serbia,

I don't know about Croatia, but I don't see that in Serbia. All the right wing parties (SRS, DSS, Dveri) are out of parliament in this moment.

and not to mention Bosnia that is already targeted as dangerous muslim enclave and possible base for "muslim terrorists".

Yes, Bosnia is problematical.

Also recently in the background of all this political tensions in Croatia major sales of the Croatian companies is going on, today we just learned that Adris group and TDR - our major tobacco producer are sold to British investors. SO yep sales of the country is on the run while politicians are entertaining people with stupid and false conflicts.

Yes, so now the West doesn't have the interest to start a war here when they invested a lot of money in this region. They will lose money if they start a war.

There was a joke that EU will fall apart when Croatia enters in ;) ...

I don' know about that, but you are economically not such a bad country when compared to the rest of Balkans countries which are outside the EU. Real problems for EU are yet to begin when the next batch of countries gets in.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

Also why there is significant propagated nationalism rising in both Croatia and Serbia,

I don't know about Croatia, but I don't see that in Serbia. All the right wing parties (SRS, DSS, Dveri) are out of parliament in this moment.

I am glad to read this, as here in Croatia nationalism is very very bad, worst than 90's. We have such a rise of anti Serbian nationalism, and anti regional also, that it is really a shame that kids in primary school go along with that. When the mess was in Macedonia, I got many complains form my close colleagues that why I am so worried about Macedonia Serbia etc , like "who cares about them" ... I was very surprised to get that kind of comments from intellectuals and artists ...

I don't know, investments are coming, but not good though, as they are not bringing goods to Croatia, as companies are not registered in Croatia, and they are just actually buying for nothing fantastic properties. It is all about that, as much as I can see it, as our coast is really a treasure that even Croatians are not aware of. It is stupid that Croatian people don't really have any entrepreneurship nerve. With such a big territory and so little population we could live good. But ...

 

[casper]

I am glad to read this, as here in Croatia nationalism is very very bad, worst than 90's. We have such a rise of anti Serbian nationalism..

Maybe we have a different circle of people around us, but we live in the same country, this is absolutely not true. NOT TODAY, 20 YEARS AGO.- YES!!!
In every state has the right-wingers (take the example of Germany), but you can not generalize an entire people.
I was in the war, now working with people Serbian, Macedonian and Bosnian origin. We work together, share a snack, sutures different Easter, Ramadan and Christmas.
If that were true what you write, explain to me please how it is that the Serbs over the years come without fear of the sea in Croatia, the only incidents occurring at sporting events, but recently, when Croatia was a guest in Kraljevo (Serbia), the Davis cup , everything was absolutely perfect.
With regard to children in schools, children can choose whether to go to religious education, elected by the Creed ( hrvatski -vjeroispovijed), in recent times in cafes and clubs listen more folk music, nobody complaining and protesting. Please list examples of discrimination , today, not during the war, today.

I got many complains form my close colleagues that why I am so worried about Macedonia Serbia etc , like "who cares about them"

Change working environment (the contaminated)


Big Croatian shipyards for years "imported" labor force from Serbia and Bosnia and Herzegovina, ask people whether they feel threatened or are in any way discriminated against by the people they work with !!!

 

[Deleted member 11729]

Casper, yes I am not generalizing to all of Croatian sure, I know that many normal people just do they work and collaborate and communicate etc and I am also working with my Serbian colleagues, in particular co-producing one very god film with them, and sure I work with Macedonians, Bosnians, Slovenians etc ... I don't realy look who is who ... :) .. but last couple of years, due to my work I got sourounded with so called Croatian intellectuals, and you won't believe it how they are filled with antagonism and hate. You can't realy see it at first, you just think they are taking care of Croatian tradition culture etc, but as you go deeper you see what is all about. For example you can take a look at some of the news magazine that you maybe don't follow like Dnevno, Narod, HOP etc ... most of the people around them are very much against any collaboration with regional exYU countries, they are quite irritated with what they call it "Yugoslavian" etc etc .... there is a kind of a provoked reason in that, through the mess done with HNS in culture in particular and partly in education, but I will not go in details here, as due to communicating with them, yes I stoped :) don't worry, as I just was surprised with the level of sublime hate and intolerance towards our other regional exYu partners, that goes beyond normal resoning and criticism of our goverment.

And I have kids in primary school, and when I here how kids are talking and thinking, it is obvious reflection what they get from home. And I couldn't believe that I will here it again in 21 century. Also do you remember all this battle around Cyrillic and Latin names in Vukovar on official tables? Actually I was also invited to public debating as a cultural worker around that with many well known names in Croatia form polititians to priests and psychiatrists, as that was kind of a pusshy at that moment from our government, without prior more natural and subtle integration, through culture and education, but when it all off a sudden get off the line towards more hate, I just get off debate, as I realize that for some of our citizens there will never be enough good arguments to stop with hate.

I also think that generalization is not good, but we also have to be aware of what HDZ is doing right now with all this veteran conflict. You know, we have every day fights between Ustase, Partizani, Jugosloveni, Hrvati etc ... this is not normal at all, and on the other side you can see those NGOs, left and right, who are pushing the buttons, how they are profiting out of that confrontations.

IMO, things are far from good, and that is more evident in Croatian province than maybe in Zagreb and Istria ...

 

[Nević Nenad]

[quote author=Persej]
I don't know about Croatia, but I don't see that in Serbia. All the right wing parties (SRS, DSS, Dveri) are out of parliament in this moment.
[/quote]

If I may add, there is increase in sympathy for the the right wing parties. But, as I can see the reason is that they are now the only parties which are against the government, not the true nationalistic sentiment. Something like it was with the Golden Dawn or even Syriza in Greece. The reason why majority of the people is against the government is unbelievable amount of utter idiocy and psychopathy which we are exposed to. It is now totally clear that the worse and the most stupider kind of people are in the government. We are being bombed with total fantastic bullshit day by the day. It goes to the domain of SciFi :) The normal person is not sure if she/he should lough or cry when seeing the news. They think that ALL OF US are idiots, which is very unnerving.

The last example is the news that now we are living 30% better than in 1989! Or few days ago we have ruling party parliament group leader, speaking in the parliament, his intention was to say "vazduhoplov" (the airplane) and he was saying constantly "vazduPlohov". He made mistake at least 10 times, didn't said it correctly not once! In english, for example, it would be to say 'air farce' instead the 'air force', and make it 10 times in just a couple of minutes! We are living in Monty Python's flying circus live!


[quote author=solarmind]
I don't know, investments are coming, but not good though, as they are not bringing goods to Croatia, as companies are not registered in Croatia, and they are just actually buying for nothing fantastic properties. It is all about that, as much as I can see it, as our coast is really a treasure that even Croatians are not aware of. It is stupid that Croatian people don't really have any entrepreneurship nerve. With such a big territory and so little population we could live good. But ...
[/quote]

Thats just the classic capitalism (industrialized feudalism and slave society), its just that it is new to us so we don't see it as "normal" yet :)