God save croatia

[Anamarija]

To be from Croatia for me it is just knowing that I have some characteristic and background that makes me different for example from someone from Serbia or England.
If I had option to choose country where I will be born that means (for me) that I'm accepting lessons on this area.

For example, my father is from Bosnia&Herzegovina, he like to think about himself like a great believer, catholic and nationalist.
My mother was from Zagreb and she was very poor before she meet my father. She didn't believe in anything, she was so hungry for love.
My father fought that making love is just for making a children.
My mother was a victim, father aggressor.
My mother died from cancer.

How many family anyone knows in Croatia that they have almost the same situation?

Closed minded, nationalism, prejudice, blaming, sacrifice, aggression, stupidity, fear, living in illusion, Christianity - and everything what goes with that. That is my words for Croatia. I have travelled all Croatia and not just passing by, lived there for years, Zagorje, Split, Rovinj, Osijek, Zagreb, Šibenik, Zadar.., that is my thinking after years and years meting and talking with a people trough Croatia. Of course, there must be people with a better qualities, some live next to me now, but in generally this is it.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

Just wanted to post recent article that supports my concerns, unfortunately.

"Young Croats tend firm hand, a military dictatorship, NDH and religion"

_http://www.tportal.hr/vijesti/znanost/384133/Mladi-Hrvati-skloni-cvrstoj-ruci-vojnoj-diktaturi-NDH-i-vjeri.html

Croatia is literally divided into two groups that hardly will ever interconnect. That is why it is difficult to see that other group exist if you are not part of it, specially this one more conservative, religious and militant, as those are mainly good boys and girls that goes every sunday to church and pray for the patriotism fired up trough Catholicism.

I understand you Domagoj totally, I was actually observing this trend that you are mentioning very closely for 3 years, and what I see now is that there is another round of misleading of young people, and church is abusing their power and power of fiat, giving them illusions of belonging to a proud nation that was always under someone else attack etc ecte cte ... same model everywhere, but not relay working out anything to make that patriotism to be creative, positive uplifting .... they do that just for one reason - to get more sheep in their courtyard, they are not out there to give out to young real knowledge and support that they need in this hard economical and moral situation where Croatia is right now. IT was always like that with Catholic Church in Croatia. Just think about that there is 90% Catholics register and every day prayers, and God save Croatia etc, and thourgh the history Croatia is just sinking more and more. Do you see a paradox here? Church IS NOT DOING - they are just taking. If you are smart and intelligent and f you ask quesiotns, you will very quickly be expeld. You can be smart, educated etc but you are not allowed to go into conversaiton with those who are seting up the rules, and you wil never be the one. It is corrupted as all other power systems.

Reading Cassiopaea materials, this forum, and starting to do The Work, and reading and folowing the news through SOTT, helped me a lot to see things more clearly. Now since last Christmas, I can't imagine to go to the Croatian church any more, but just a year ago I was devoted christian, patriot, almost ended up with conservatives, as I did sow them as a kind of rebellious movement towards all this liberal crap. But after been sourounded with liberals and lefties for years, and I didn't liked their way of doing things, I decided to get to know in person most of the leaders in conservative and "patriot" side in Croatia, and what I foudn there - they are just selfish selfpromoters not really willing to do anything for you, even worst than those other guys.

What I want to say form my experience is that all this "traveling" helped me to realize that either one or the other way is the worng way, and that actualy I am just a normal person, and that there is more of us in Croatia too, and I started to value this middle route - to be normal, independent and to work on myself to keep that state of mind and spirit and not to get trapped by any side, what can easily happen through the every day jobs, and work.

 

[Persej]

the other day was one TV show with them, and he and another guy who has the other 1/3 of everything in region they said that future of Croatia is in Yugoslavia ... crazy world.

Hah. Yes, the business world can sometimes see things better than ordinary people. ;)
We are also merging together in sports. We now have regional basketball, water-polo, handball, and maybe some other leagues.
Unity didn't work, independence obviously doesn't work, but maybe some hybrid system will...

 

[wanderingthomas]

Just wanted to post recent article that supports my concerns, unfortunately.

"Young Croats tend firm hand, a military dictatorship, NDH and religion"

_http://www.tportal.hr/vijesti/znanost/384133/Mladi-Hrvati-skloni-cvrstoj-ruci-vojnoj-diktaturi-NDH-i-vjeri.html

Croatia is literally divided into two groups that hardly will ever interconnect. That is why it is difficult to see that other group exist if you are not part of it, specially this one more conservative, religious and militant, as those are mainly good boys and girls that goes every sunday to church and pray for the patriotism fired up trough Catholicism.

While there are some like that, let's not get over dramatic. You see, the problem is, those who are on the margins of society, those who are in numbers actually very small simply get to much press and attention. It's a media industry aided by flashy, breaking and shocking news.

I know a lot of young people, I live with them, communicate with them and see what they are doing.
I would just like to emphasize, in contrast to all of the focus on the contrary, that Croatia has some or rather a lot of truly wonderful, intelligent, bright and genuinely good young people. I'm in college now and I trully see and know a lot of creative, innovative and progressive young people who if you let them, could lead Croatia to true progress. Our young people have grown in a strange time and have learned a lot of things their western counterparts know nothing about.
I mean just the fact that there are as many Croatian people on this forum as there are shows that despite or perhaps because of the terrible environment and happenings in recent historical times in this country we have some wonderful people doing great stuff.

As anywhere there are those who are stuck in or even thrive in ideologies of the past, but this shouldn't discourage us to achieve what we know we are capable of.

 

[Yozilla]

Just wanted to post recent article that supports my concerns, unfortunately.

"Young Croats tend firm hand, a military dictatorship, NDH and religion"

_http://www.tportal.hr/vijesti/znanost/384133/Mladi-Hrvati-skloni-cvrstoj-ruci-vojnoj-diktaturi-NDH-i-vjeri.html

Polls are not to rely upon, especially if presented by foreign agent - this t-portal is is owned by T-com Croatia which is owned by Deutsche Telekom. They are pushing propaganda that suits "German occupying force" that, along with above mentioned cointelpro agency, consists of: Raiffaisen, Volksbank,Siemens, Lidl, Kaufland, Billa, DM, Styria gruppe, you name it. T-portal is carrying out "divide et impera" strategy on their part. Croatian clergy is enamored with Germany too which makes them to fit that company just fine. Politicians too... Švapske sponzoruše (Schwabische gold diggers) they are all... true collaborators. FWIW

Yozzo

 

[Deleted member 11729]

the other day was one TV show with them, and he and another guy who has the other 1/3 of everything in region they said that future of Croatia is in Yugoslavia ... crazy world.

Hah. Yes, the business world can sometimes see things better than ordinary people. ;)
We are also merging together in sports. We now have regional basketball, water-polo, handball, and maybe some other leagues.
Unity didn't work, independence obviously doesn't work, but maybe some hybrid system will...

Yes, indeed, sports and cultural exchange is moving forward, but still there is a significant resistance among Croatians to that part too. That is a shame that we had a war, what ruined the whole range of possibilities to keep our market, media, sports, education etc on exchange level . Now even though if we will build the bridges our countries are not on the same level of economical development, what again makes things complicated. But each of us, we can always work on a "small", but significant more personal and human level, to build new models for collaboration.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

While there are some like that, let's not get over dramatic.

I know a lot of young people, I live with them, communicate with them and see what they are doing.
I would just like to emphasize, in contrast to all of the focus on the contrary, that Croatia has some or rather a lot of truly wonderful, intelligent, bright and genuinely good young people. I'm in college now and I trully see and know a lot of creative, innovative and progressive young people who if you let them, could lead Croatia to true progress. Our young people have grown in a strange time and have learned a lot of things their western counterparts know nothing about.
I mean just the fact that there are as many Croatian people on this forum as there are shows that despite or perhaps because of the terrible environment and happenings in recent historical times in this country we have some wonderful people doing great stuff.

As anywhere there are those who are stuck in or even thrive in ideologies of the past, but this shouldn't discourage us to achieve what we know we are capable of.

Yes sure, I know that too, media just don't give them space, it is all upsidedown. Croatia is not nationalistic place at all, but we have to be aware of tendencies that are pusshing that butnos when politics and church needs that, that was just a topic we start to talk about ... but as you said, comparing how small we are, and there is a lot of us on this forum, that makes my heart sing :) ... And for young people, we middle generation, we have to give them hand and support not to leave the country but to try to build their own jobs and prospect here, as we are still pretty much normal country, if we talk in terms of human friendly place, after traveling the whole world, I think Croatia is very high in the list with godo potential to be a very nice place to live, if we wil be smart to keep our small bussines alive, apart form strong effort from EU to buy everything, including people ... ;) ... we can hve a good life here, even if hard times will come.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

Polls are not to rely upon, especially if presented by foreign agent - this t-portal is is owned by T-com Croatia which is owned by Deutsche Telekom. They are pushing propaganda that suits "German occupying force" that, along with above mentioned cointelpro agency, consists of: Raiffaisen, Volksbank,Siemens, Lidl, Kaufland, Billa, DM, Styria gruppe, you name it. T-portal is carrying out "divide et impera" strategy on their part. Croatian clergy is enamored with Germany too which makes them to fit that company just fine. Politicians too... Švapske sponzoruše (Schwabische gold diggers) they are all... true collaborators. FWIW

Yozzo

Yes that was also my concern that it is part of the "chaos" propaganda ...

 

[wanderingthomas]

Yes sure, I know that too, media just don't give them space, it is all upsidedown. Croatia is not nationalistic place at all, but we have to be aware of tendencies that are pusshing that butnos when politics and church needs that, that was just a topic we start to talk about ... but as you said, comparing how small we are, and there is a lot of us on this forum, that makes my heart sing :) ... And for young people, we middle generation, we have to give them hand and support not to leave the country but to try to build their own jobs and prospect here, as we are still pretty much normal country, if we talk in terms of human friendly place, after traveling the whole world, I think Croatia is very high in the list with godo potential to be a very nice place to live, if we wil be smart to keep our small bussines alive, apart form strong effort from EU to buy everything, including people ... ;) ... we can hve a good life here, even if hard times will come.

Absolutely, we could have a truly wonderful country to live in. Now, obviously, there are nationalistic tendencies among people but considering that we went through a war and now a possibly an even worse state of economic depression I'm surprised the nationalistic tendencies aren't even higher.

Such trends should never be viewed in a vacuum. There are right tendencies in many western countries as well as a consequence of economic despair. So, considering what Croatia went through in the last 20 years it's not surprising for there to be right wing ideologies.

It's just important for the new generations to overcome those beliefs and build a healthier society which can sometimes be hard if their family burdens them with problems of the past. There are a lot of factors involved like family, ethnicity, identity, lots of emotions, media propaganda, economic downfall, etc. It's hard to overcome such strong psychological factors.

 

[Persej]

With all of these things happening now in FIFA, I'm wondering what is actually going on now in FIBA. FIBA ordered our teams to step down from our regional basketball league (ABA league). They said that if they don't do that our national teams will be kicked out from EuroBasket 2015.

Why are they doing that? Are they afraid of the power of ABA league? Or are they unhappy because they are not getting the money from that league?

_http://www.rts.rs/page/sport/sr/story/37/Ko%C5%A1arka/1945398/Hrvatski+savez+stao+na+stranu+FIBA.html

 

[Yozilla]

Hypothetically speaking in terms of PC analogy. if the process of installing new global OP (RNWO - REAL New World Order/ Matrix 2015.) is underway - maybe it could be said that it would need new drivers: religious, social, sport drivers too as essential parts of "circus et panem" infrastructure... New financial driver are almost in place (BRICS, AIIB), others maybe are to follow. So basically being duped as wannabe PNAC World masters, western PTB maybe are trying to impose some of their "inadequate software" on the new emerging hardware platform. Maybe those western sports drivers will ultimately be rolled back, meaning that new sports (under the Eastern grip) federations could be formed - in accordance with probable power shift to East .. Maybe bosses are done with FIFA, FIBA, UEFA yust name any western controlled "sports" federation/driver... FWIW

y

 

[Possibility of Being]

as here in Croatia nationalism is very very bad, worst than 90's.

Many people on the forum live in the different continents, countries, this is not accurate information, this sentence generalize to all Croatian citizens.

Hey Casper how can you see "all Croatian citizens" in the quoted sentence? Solarmind just said that it is worse now than it was 20-25 years ago. Unless it was already close to "all citizens" back then in the 1990's (which I think was not).

From my observations, nationalism (the 'bad' one, close to chauvinism or nazism) increased in most, if not all, Eastern European countries during last 5 years or so. OR, it becomes more and more visible and vocal - and there definitely are forces out there more than willing to help with that. Not to mention that from psychological point of view that increase is not surprising. When things escalate, chaos and disappointment grow, those who can't contribute to the world creatively tend to pursue even stronger means of expression and more extreme ideologies. Or so I think...

 

[casper]

Hey Casper how can you see "all Croatian citizens" in the quoted sentence?

Who lives in the Croatian state? The citizens of Croatia. (Croats, Serbs, Slovenes, Macedonians, people from Bosnia and Herzegovina, minority ...)

she wrote, quote: as here-HERE- CROATIA

Who lives in the Croatian state? The citizens of Croatia.
Let's move on.

Solarmind just said that it is worse now than it was 20-25 years ago.

This statement is incorrect!

 

[Z...]

Let's move on.

FWIW in English and in this context this remark sounds pretty rude and dismissive. Well even in Croatian I would perceive it the same way ;)

As for the rest I would say things were always bad, the biggest problem now being that the same party that spearheaded national chauvinism and expansionism ( with rehabilitation of fascism) in 90-ies is now back in power blowing in the same trumpets again, and whatever healing has occurred in past 25 years has now regressed. So no, I dont think Solar mind was very far off.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

Casper, I explained many time what I wanted to say, so "thinking" what it was, after I explained, is really kind of aggressive. As you see there is some more people who didn't read it as you did, so please stop attacking me for something that was your interpretation of my expression, and your interpretation is very programed by general frustration, and it is not even close to my intention any how - YOUR INTERPRETATION IS SIMPLY WRONG. Hope we are done with this, and that you can see what you are doing wrong towards me personally, keeping on attacking me for no any reason. This makes me feel sad, and it is really not fair that you keep on with that personal atack on me. :(