God save croatia

[casper]

Let's move on.

FWIW in English and in this context this remark sounds pretty rude and dismissive. Well even in Croatian I would perceive it the same way ;)

The Croatian translation, let's move on- idemo dalje, lists the following statement wrong, and that is:

as here in Croatia nationalism is very very bad, worst than 90's...

Moj engleski je problematičan, tako da ću ovo prvo poslati na hrvatskom, a zatim sa prijevodom

U periodu od 1989- 1996. u Hrvatskoj se vršila anti-srpska propaganda, svi srbi su bili ćetnici, pjevale su su ustaške pjesme, na radiju i televiziji su se vrtili programi koji su govorili što četnici rade u Hrvatskoj, kako ubijaju i kolju nevini narod, hrvatske zastave su bile sa prvom bijelom kockom, Thomsom i ostatak muzičke mašinerije pozivali su u boj , u boj za narod svoj, slovo U , kao grafit pojavljivao se na svakom mjestu, dva prsta su se dizala u zrak, ljudi koji su živjeli u mješanim brakovima ( na primjer, muž je bio Hrvat, žena Srpkinja ili obrnuto,) bili su pod , ajmo tako reči -blagom prismotrom, , kada je bio srpski božič 7. 1 palile su se baklje i ljudi koji su odlazili u crkvu su bili ismijavani...
Svemu ovome sam bio svjedokom, tako da znam o čemu govorim i pišem.
Danas je drugačije.
English translation
In the period of 1989- 1996 in Croatia was carried out anti-Serbian propaganda, all Serbs were Chetniks, they sang Ustasha songs, radio and television were spun programs what Chetniks work in Croatia, to kill and slaughter innocent people, Croatian flags were the first white cube, Thomson and the rest of the music machine called for the fight, the fight for his people, the letter U, as graffiti appeared in every place, two fingers are rising into the air, people who lived in mixed marriages (for example, the husband was a Croat, a Serb woman, or vice versa) were under, let's say so Good for surveillance, when he was a Serbian Christmas 7. 1. lit the torch and the people who go to church are were mocked ...
All this I had witnessed, so I know what I'm saying and writing.
Today is different.

Casper, I explained many time what I wanted to say, so "thinking" what it was, after I explained, is really kind of aggressive. As you see there is some more people who didn't read it as you did, so please stop attacking me for something that was your interpretation of my expression, and your interpretation is very programed by general frustration, and it is not even close to my intention any how - YOUR INTERPRETATION IS SIMPLY WRONG. Hope we are done with this, and that you can see what you are doing wrong towards me personally, keeping on attacking me for no any reason. This makes me feel sad, and it is really not fair that you keep on with that personal atack on me. :(

I'm not attacking you, or anyone in the forum. I am asked for my opinion where I can see you're all Croats declared for nationalists and gave the answer where I see it.You said your, I responded what I think about it.The aggressiveness with this has absolutely nothing to do, I'm sorry you feel that way, but believe me, I have never been aggressive, much less
frustrated with regard to these and similar situations like this.Can you explain how you sound sentences,:
Here, in Ukraine nationalism is very, very bed ...
What You make an impression on the people who live in Ukraine? Positive? Or you'll think twice before you'll travel there?


Prevoditelj mi krivo zna prevesti neke riječi, pa ču ti ovo prvo napisati na hrvatskom , a zatim prevesti.
Nemam ništa protiv nikoga, ovo ne trebaš smatrati osobnim napadom na tebe, jer to nije, u periodu od 1989.- 1995. prošao sam sva ratišta u Hrvatskoj, od Slavonije, Like i manji dio Dalmacije, osjetio sam na svojoj vlastitoj koži kakav je nacionalizam bio onda, a kakav je danas, oni ljudi koji to nisu prošli, koji nisu osjetili miris spaljenog ljudskog mesa, koji su u to doba ili kasnije izgubili posao jer je u Hrvatskoj sve propalo, sve velike firme su prodane u bescjenje, ... ti ljudi mogli su o nekim stvarima samo čitati u novinama ili gledati na televiziji...
Nacionalistička propaganda koja se onda sustavno provodila među braniteljima , jedan je od brojnih razloga zašto danas jedan po jedan dižu ruku na sebe. Neka vas ne zavaravaju napisi u novinama kako je danas gore.
Danas se to radi u celofanu, u rukavicama, ali onda , tih godina , ljudi su ubijani ako je netko samo pokazao prstom u njega i rekao da nije podoban .


Translations into English.
I have nothing against anybody, this need not be considered as a personal attack on you, because it is not, in the period from 1989- 1995. I passed all the battlefields in Croatia, from Slavonia, Lika and smaller part of Dalmatia, I felt on my own skin as it nationalism was then and as it is today, they are people who have not gone through, which did not experience the smell of burnt human flesh, which at that time or later lost their jobs because Croatia is all ruined, all the big companies have been sold for next to nothing, .. . these people could have some things just to read the newspaper or watch the television ...
Nationalist propaganda which is then systematically conducted among veterans, is one of many reasons why today one by one raise their hands to themselves. Do not be misleading newspaper reports that up today.
Today, it works in cellophane, with kid gloves, but then, in those years, people have been killed if someone just pointed to it and said it was not suitable.


You said your opinion, I have mine.
So, I explained what are your words meant to me, without attacks and aggression, I think that your stated that in Croatia nationalism worse than 1990 - inaccurate, also that things can not and must not generalize !!!

 

[Deleted member 11729]

Today, it works in cellophane, with kid gloves, but then, in those years, people have been killed if someone just pointed to it and said it was not suitable.

Yes it is still not resolved on many levels as that is the most easiest game to play in Croatia if you want chaos to manipulate economy and other stuff and we even had a phase when to be a Croat in Croatia wasn't very popular in last few years, what I experienced on my skin, but what many took as one advantage to blow again in that trumpets, as we can see with HDZ and new president. And HDZ are the ones who started all this troubles you explained.

Okay, thank you for feedback, I am taking your words of no personal attack and I truly understand your point, as I lost my first sweetheart and some colleagues from primary school in war in 90s, and my family in Šibenik suffered a lot in war times ... and I really don't like when even a small hint of any kind of nationalism and attack on that level start to burn again.

 

[Laura]

Let's move on.

FWIW in English and in this context this remark sounds pretty rude and dismissive. Well even in Croatian I would perceive it the same way ;)

As for the rest I would say things were always bad, the biggest problem now being that the same party that spearheaded national chauvinism and expansionism ( with rehabilitation of fascism) in 90-ies is now back in power blowing in the same trumpets again, and whatever healing has occurred in past 25 years has now regressed. So no, I dont think Solar mind was very far off.

Casper, something REALLY emotional is going on with you, what can it be? Some kind of guilt?

 

[luke wilson]

Hey Casper, I hope you are doing well...

I have never been to Croatia but everything I hear about the country is beautiful, at least from travellers who have been there. I am quite surprised by the information released by this discussion as now the country doesn't look as beautiful as its emerald lakes and beautiful forests would suggest.

Due to this transcendent beauty I've heard about the country and seen in pictures, I have been plotting on visiting the country so as to experience it all in person. Hopefully it isn't like Ukraine or some Nazi state that doesn't like foreigners. :(

 

[Z...]

Due to this transcendent beauty I've heard about the country and seen in pictures, I have been plotting on visiting the country so as to experience it all in person. Hopefully it isn't like Ukraine or some Nazi state that doesn't like foreigners. :(

Its not, Croatian people are very hospitable, especially if you have foreign currency :) we mostly hate with passion our Balkan neighbors, or people from other Croatian regions. Indeed we can be very passionate like that, but then on the other hand when American corporations get concessions to fence off our pristine lakes and start selling us bottled water, we dont say a thing.
If you speak English you will be fine, just be prepared to be ripped off especially on the coast.

 

[casper]

As I have stressed several times, my English is problematic, and I'll write my answer first in the Croatian language, and then translated using translators, thanks for your understanding.

Let's move on.

FWIW in English and in this context this remark sounds pretty rude and dismissive. Well even in Croatian I would perceive it the same way ;)

As for the rest I would say things were always bad, the biggest problem now being that the same party that spearheaded national chauvinism and expansionism ( with rehabilitation of fascism) in 90-ies is now back in power blowing in the same trumpets again, and whatever healing has occurred in past 25 years has now regressed. So no, I dont think Solar mind was very far off.

Casper, something REALLY emotional is going on with you, what can it be? Some kind of guilt?

Apsolutno, ne.
U godinu dana , koliko sam redoviti posjetitelj i član foruma, moj život i pogled na neke određene situacije se iz samog temelja promjenio, ali ono što se nikada nije promjenilo je to što nikada, ali apsolutno nikada nisam dijelio ljude po nacionalnosti , vjeri, ili nečem trečem.

Svaka osoba, neovisno o spolu, političkoj orijentaciji ima pravo na svoje mišljenje i pravo na svoj uvid ( viđenje) stvari, ali pritom ne može generalizirati i trpati sve ljude u isti koš. Meni , osobno ,nije svejedno dali me netko smatra nacionalistom. Smatram da se kao što ne možemo sve ljude temeljem njihova vjerovanja u nešto generalizirati, isto tako ne možemo generalizirati niti jednu državu da je nacionalistička, nacistička , sexistička ...

Papirnato gledajuči , država je komad teritorije obilježena prirodnim ili umjetnim granicama. Ali što čini jednu državu takvu kakva je?
Ljudi koji žive u toj državi. Neki su mladi, neki su stari, neki su bolesni, neki su zdravi, neki su psihopate, neki imaju dušu.

Izjave dane u ovoj temi generaliziraju ljude , smatram da je to pogrešno i reagirao sam na način da sam to i napisao, rekao sam svoje mišljenje.
Solarmind je to shvatila kao osobni napad, to mi nije namjera ( mislim da sam to i objasnio u prethodnom postu), namjera mi je bila da ispravim krivo navedeni navod.


Translated:

Absolutely not.
In a year, as I am a regular visitor and member this forum, my life and look at some specific situations from the ground up has changed, but what has never changed is that never, absolutely never shared by people of nationality, religion, or something else.

Every person, regardless of gender, political orientation has a right to his own opinion and the right to their insight (seeing) things, but do not be generalized and stuffing all people in the same basket. To me, personally, it does matter whether someone is considered a nationalist. I believe that as we can not all people on the basis of their belief in something to generalize, also we can not generalize any country that is a nationalist, Nazi, sexist ...

Paper watching it, the state is a piece of territory marked by natural or artificial boundaries. But what does a country such as it is?
People living in that country. Some are young, some are old, some are sick, some are healthy, some psychopaths, some have a soul.

Statements provided in this topic generalize people, I think it was wrong and I reacted the way I wrote it, I said my opinion.
Solarmind took it as a personal attack, it's not my intention (I think that's what I explained in the previous post), my intent was to correct a wrong allegation stated.

Let's move on.

FWIW in English and in this context this remark sounds pretty rude and dismissive. Well even in Croatian I would perceive it the same way ;)

Sa rečenicom koju sam napisao;
Citat;
"Idemo dalje." , za mene ta rečenica predstavlja da sam prethodnu temu ( ili bilo što drugo) završio i da krečem na sljedeču koju želim razjasniti.
Veliku ulogu u samoj rečenici imaju interpunkcijski znakovi, u ovoj situaciji na kraju moje rečenice je točka.
Da je u ovoj rečenici uskličnik, tada bi se ova rečenica mogla protumačiti na način na koji vi sugerirate.

Značenje rečenica određen je interpunkcijskim znakovima na kraju rečenica.

Translated:
With the sentence I wrote;
Quote;
"Let's move on." For me, this phrase signifies that I previous topic (or anything else) completed and moving to the next one I want to clarify.
A huge role in the sentence, have punctuation, in this situation at the end of my sentences is a point.
That is in this sentence exclamation point, then this sentence could be interpreted in the way you suggest.

The meaning of a sentence is determined by the punctuation at the end of sentences.

Hey Casper, I hope you are doing well...

I have never been to Croatia but everything I hear about the country is beautiful, at least from travellers who have been there. I am quite surprised by the information released by this discussion as now the country doesn't look as beautiful as its emerald lakes and beautiful forests would suggest.

Due to this transcendent beauty I've heard about the country and seen in pictures, I have been plotting on visiting the country so as to experience it all in person. Hopefully it isn't like Ukraine or some Nazi state that doesn't like foreigners. :(

Thanks for asking, actually, honestly, I've never been better.
I got a job, I do and I enjoy every moment, surrounded by people I love.
Of course, every day brings you beautiful and ugly things, but now I know how to deal with them.
As to your question regarding the Croatian, as well as each country has its advantage and no preference, beauty and things that are not so nice, but if you ever decide to come to visit this country, my advice to you is to take your camera.
Continental and the area along the Adriatic Sea offer true beauty.
Of course, as everywhere else, you have to have money if you want to buy something. ;D

 

[luke wilson]

Nice to see casper has some fire in him! You make good points about generalisations. However you do have to also agree that in countries certain generalizations hold true as a general theme. Not that everyone fits into these generalisations. For example Americans are materialistic is a generalisation or that Italians have passion or Nordic people are somewhat cold etc.... Not everyone in these groups fit the generalisation. :)

 

[casper]

Nice to see casper has some fire in him!

Literally a fire in me, Croatia is now grill 35 degrees Fahrenheit. ;)

However you do have to also agree that in countries certain generalizations hold true as a general theme. Not that everyone fits into these generalisations. For example Americans are materialistic is a generalisation or that Italians have passion or Nordic people are somewhat cold etc.... Not everyone in these groups fit the generalisation. :)

I absolutely agree with you.
If you ever decide to come to Croatia, I sincerely hope that you like a culture, history and natural beauty of the country.

 

[casper]

With all of these things happening now in FIFA, I'm wondering what is actually going on now in FIBA. FIBA ordered our teams to step down from our regional basketball league (ABA league). They said that if they don't do that our national teams will be kicked out from EuroBasket 2015.

Why are they doing that? Are they afraid of the power of ABA league? Or are they unhappy because they are not getting the money from that league?

_http://www.rts.rs/page/sport/sr/story/37/Ko%C5%A1arka/1945398/Hrvatski+savez+stao+na+stranu+FIBA.html

Quote from the article:
International Basketball Federation (FIBA) is not satisfied with the reorganization of the existing regional ABA league and could throw the Croatian national team and Serbian from the upcoming World Cup players to 19 years

Link:
https://translate.google.hr/translate?sl=hr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=hr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegram.hr%2Fsport%2Ffiba-bi-zbog-aba-lige-mogla-izbaciti-hrvatsku-ali-i-srbiju-sa-svjetskog-prvenstva-do-19-godina%2F&edit-text=

Why are they doing that?
Are they afraid of the power of ABA league?
Or are they unhappy because they are not getting the money from that league?

On your first question, I think the answer might be-money
On your second question I think the answer is -yes
On your third question I think the answer is - they are :(

 

[Argo]

the other day was one TV show with them, and he and another guy who has the other 1/3 of everything in region they said that future of Croatia is in Yugoslavia ... crazy world.

Hah. Yes, the business world can sometimes see things better than ordinary people. ;)
We are also merging together in sports. We now have regional basketball, water-polo, handball, and maybe some other leagues.
Unity didn't work, independence obviously doesn't work, but maybe some hybrid system will...

Yes, indeed, sports and cultural exchange is moving forward, but still there is a significant resistance among Croatians to that part too. That is a shame that we had a war, what ruined the whole range of possibilities to keep our market, media, sports, education etc on exchange level.

Exactly! Yugoslavia was a sovereign, independent country with its own production, markets, profits and of course political stance. TPTB simply could not allow it. Today we are all slaves of "Western oligarchy", who exploited us and the resources of our countries. Not to mention that there is no real political-national independence.

The irony is that when the breakaway Yugoslav republics declared their "independence," and introduced the so-called "free market", in fact they waived their real independence that had through Yugoslav federation.

 

[casper]

the other day was one TV show with them, and he and another guy who has the other 1/3 of everything in region they said that future of Croatia is in Yugoslavia ... crazy world.

Hah. Yes, the business world can sometimes see things better than ordinary people. ;)
We are also merging together in sports. We now have regional basketball, water-polo, handball, and maybe some other leagues.
Unity didn't work, independence obviously doesn't work, but maybe some hybrid system will...

Yes, indeed, sports and cultural exchange is moving forward, but still there is a significant resistance among Croatians to that part too. That is a shame that we had a war, what ruined the whole range of possibilities to keep our market, media, sports, education etc on exchange level.

Exactly! Yugoslavia was a sovereign, independent country with its own production, markets, profits and of course political stance. TPTB simply could not allow it. Today we are all slaves of "Western oligarchy", who exploited us and the resources of our countries. Not to mention that there is no real political-national independence.

The irony is that when the breakaway Yugoslav republics declared their "independence," and introduced the so-called "free market", in fact they waived their real independence that had through Yugoslav federation.

Unification of the two Germanys in October 1990 somehow " strangely" coincided with the dissolution of Yugoslavia !?

 

[Persej]

Hrvatska predsjednica Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović zamjerila je bivšem predsjedniku Ivi Josipoviću da je u njegovu mandatu u vanjskoj politici isticana "napadna" privrženost Beogradu te je poručila kako nije nikada umanjivala važnost politike prema susjedstvu, ali da hrvatsku vanjsku politiku vidi puno otvoreniju i ambiciozniju od stalne koncentracije na tzv. regiju - izraz koji joj je posebno mrzak.

"Da, u mandatu Ive Josipovića išlo se i pjevati i plesati u Beograd i napadno se isticala privrženost ne toliko ukupnoj regiji, koliko Beogradu kao metafori jugonostalgije, a pritom nismo riješili nijedno otvoreno pitanje. To vrijedi i za naš odnos sa Crnom Gorom“, rekla je predsjednica Grabar-Kitarović u intervjuu "Slobodnoj Dalmaciji" pod naslovom "Ne vodim politiku regije". Naglasila je kako Hrvatska ima odgovornost za sigurnost i stabilnost jugoistočne Europe, ali da "ne smije sebe samu zaključati u jugoistočno susjedstvo".

"Hrvatsku vanjsku politiku vidim puno ambicioznije od njezine regionalne dimenzije. Vidim je puno otvoreniju i puno ambiciozniju od stalne koncentracije na tzv. regiju - izraz koji mi je posebno mrzak jer što on zapravo znači?" "Koji se to još dio Europe naziva 'regijom'. Ne gura li nas to u neki prostor kojem se pokušava dati kakvo-takvo ime da bi se on smatrao političkom jedinicom?", upitala je predsjednica Grabar- Kitarović.

_http://www.vijesti.rtl.hr/novosti/hrvatska/1678616/grabar-kitarovic-oplela-po-josipovicu-u-beograd-se-islo-pjevati-i-plesati-ali-se-nista-nije-rijesilo/

[quote author=Translation]Croatian President Kolinda Grabar-Kitarovic criticized the former President Ivo Josipovic that in his mandate in foreign policy he emphasized "offensive" commitment to Belgrade and said that we had never downplayed the importance of the neighborhood policy, but that she sees Croatia's foreign policy a lot more open and more ambitious than the constant concentration on the so-called region - a term that is especially odious to her.

"Yes, in the mandate of Ivo Josipovic they went and sing and dance in Belgrade and conspicuously stood out not so much the commitment to the whole region, but to the Belgrade as a metaphor of Yugo-nostalgia, and in the same time we didn't resolve any open issue. This also applies to our relationship with Montenegro", said the president Grabar-Kitarovic in an interview with "Slobodna Dalmacija" titled "I'm not running the policy of the region". She stressed that Croatia has the responsibility for the security and stability of South East Europe, but that "she should not lock herself in the southeast neighborhood."

"I see Croatia's foreign policy a lot more ambitious than its regional dimension. I see her in a much more open and much more ambitious than the constant concentration on so-called region - a phrase that is especially obnoxious to me because what does that really mean?" "What else part of the Europe is also called the 'region'. Doesn't that push us in some space with which they are trying to give it some name so that it can be considered a political unit?", asked the president Grabar Kitarovic.[/quote]

And people said that everything would be much better if we had a female leaders.

 

[Yozilla]

Yes, i could agree with you to some extent, there are some capable women but it is not in PTB's best interest to engage them, i guess... So Kolinda is just a Croatian counterpart to US Samantha Power and Jen Psssaki, with some serious psycho background probably... The name of PTB's game could be: More younger and women in politics cause they are so malleable - and they primarily target individuals of this sort... Look at current Croatian "government", ministers barely over thirties - they are so far away from governing their own lives, let alone counries - even statelet like Crytia...FWIW

Y

 

[Persej]

Yeah, we had the similar experience with our very young (29 years old) Minister of Finance: _http://www.pressonline.rs/info/politika/282973/ko-je-lazar-krstic-novi-ministar-finansija-u-vladi-srbije.html

He was supposed to bring great reforms to our country with his extraordinary knowledge that he got in Yale.

And guess what he did? He raised some taxes, and then in less than a year he quit because our PM didn't let him raise some more taxes and fire more people: _http://www.vestinet.rs/u-fokusu/lazar-krstic-podneo-ostavku

And that was the end of that.

Just because somebody is a woman, or young, or smart, or all three, doesn't mean that (s)he should lead a country.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

Kolinda is a Croatian Hillary, not a real woman, but more a frustrated woman that want to be a man ;), she even wrote in her bio that her father wanted her to be a boy ;)

_http://www.vecernji.hr/hrvatska/kolinda-grabar-kitarovic-i-hillary-clinton-govorile-na-konferenciji-u-sad-u-994048

and here is Kolinda bio, the most patetic bio I ever read, more in a style of Sarah Palin

_http://predsjednica.hr/stranica/5/