Good-bye and good riddance

[Aya]

I an bring this next piece of information up with some reluctance but I think it is relevant. I have made a couple of attempts to help and offered to buy the people of this forum the suggested reading material as well as some of the more expensive reading material in an attempt to make these books available to all the members who are serious in their Work. Instead, I was directed to the donation button at the top of the screen. I have no problem spending a great deal of money for the betterment of this community but when I am basically told that all I need to do is make a monetary donations that will not allow me to follow my money and see the direct impact of its contributing, a red flag goes up as well.

You came up with a really good idea helping members on the forum on an individual basis. That is very generous of you, astrozombie.

You need to be considerate that administrators are very busy running this website and working on their projects. Perhaps that is the reason why they directed you to the donation button? You asked to use your donation to benefit the members who needs help in general, and I am certain that they will use it to help them in various ways because that is what the donation is for. If you feel suspicious about where your money is going, that is because you have not been on this forum long enough to see the real benefits and how much people are helped and being taken cared, but that is understandable.

If you wanted to do something specific like sending books to certain members, instead of asking them to send books and donations to members who need help without being specific, I think you could have said "I want to send these books to so and so, how should I proceed?" I am pretty sure you would have gotten an answer to the question. There are many members on this forum so tracking who needs what books and who needs a support on living expenses and sending it is a lot of work. But I have seen that the SOTT team do helps those who need it when they see the situation. Also, you could help yourself if you have sincerely asked your questions in mind.

I think you can be a little bit more considerate the situations of people running this forum, too before making a hasty judgement on your own. osit I hope it helps.

 

[Voyageur]

This indicates to me that the hierarchy running this show are well aware that their teachings can not be verified in any other manner since everything they are saying and teachings are outright lies. In other words, someone who claims to have a real ability to tap into these phenomenon also have the ability to see this. In or short, this was a direct threat.

With all due respect, your intentions may or may not be as you say, yet what should be most evident, at least for any one who has taken the time to read a fraction of the (at last count) "429,564 Posts in 28,020 Topics by 4,956 Members" is that "teaching" is not anyone's domain here, including the "hierarchy" as you infer. This is a research forum to the best of my knowledge; it has always been and suspect it will continue to be - yet as Lisa just described, it is a research firm that helps people who truly ask, osit.

 

[Mikey]

People, I will fall short from calling this path a cult but the signs are there for anyone who can still think with any independence.

So you are not calling this path a cult, but in the same sentence you actually do.

Group consensus and approval of a concept or theory is the farthest thing away from making something an objective truth.

If something is an objective truth, it follows by pure logic that a great many people (a group) will have a consensus about it (if they are willing to see it). If not, then it's either not a truth, or the group has problems with perception.

 

[Ca.]

I an bring this next piece of information up with some reluctance but I think it is relevant. I have made a couple of attempts to help and offered to buy the people of this forum the suggested reading material as well as some of the more expensive reading material in an attempt to make these books available to all the members who are serious in their Work. Instead, I was directed to the donation button at the top of the screen. I have no problem spending a great deal of money for the betterment of this community but when I am basically told that all I need to do is make a monetary donations that will not allow me to follow my money and see the direct impact of its contributing, a red flag goes up as well.

I joined here with an open mind and intended on becoming a very valuable member. If not with my personal insight then with my pocketbook. But I will not make blind donations that can not be proven to me that the donations are benefiting the community at large.

Sure, the argument that the donations help to keep the forum operating and thus spreading the message but I envisioned a plan that would allow me to directly help the members that were doing the necessary Work. Stuff like help paying a mortgage bill when someone is a bad need or perhaps buying the grocery for a family in need. I was not interested in anyone's personal info. All I wanted to know is that my donations were going to those who were in direct need. Can anyone give an example where Laura and company have used their earnings and donation to help out a single member of the "family"

Who ever said that this forum is a charity? If people are having hardships, it is possible, because of there beliefs, in the very system that they trusted, that has helped promote their fall too financial, and spiritual decline. They have to figure this out themselves, as a possible lesson profile.

And your not giving, if you have expectations of a return. That is clearly an STS mentality, and manipulation on your part.

Session July 14, 1996

Q:(L) Is it more a 360 degree circle, and each person is a different point on the circle, and the whole thing cycles, and you never change relative to the people behind and in front of you, and only real thing you can do to help anyone is to move the circle by moving yourself, there by pushing one ahead of up , and pulling one behind you into your previous place? And where you are on the cycle determines what to do?
A: it is a single cycle, yes. There is only one learning cycle, and where you are upon it, determines your EXPERIENCES, and vice versa.
Q(L) Is there ever a point where lines connect from one point on the cycle so that you can 'jump' from one point to another? like a wormhole?
A:Refer to facts 1 and 2 and 3.
Q:(L)So there are no short cuts?
A:Now refer 3,4, and 5.
Q:(L) So, certain events and circumstances could help a person to make 'leaps?'
A: No "leap," acceleration.
Q:(L) One thing, previously when we were talking about unstable gravity waves, and I asked
what caused them to become unstable, you said 'utilization,' and that STO was dispersion, and STS was 'collection' of gravity. I have made a few conjectures about this and would like to ask, does this mean that in giving to others, even if what you are giving is a withholding of assistance because you that assistance would only prolong the lesson, is dispersing gravity, and exerting mental or other control over others, even if one is unaware that they are attracting energy drains to another, is collecting gravity?
A:Close.
Q:(L) So, when you collecting gravity, you become like a black hole, you can cave in on yourself?
A: Ultimately.
Q:(L) And it seems to me that one of the objects of what we are doing is releasing the gravity collected in ourselves?
A: If that is your choice, or that if that is your path.
Q:(L) Is choice as intimately connected with the path as I am understanding it? Is it just simply part of how you are configured in your soul essence?
A:Close.
Q:(L) And there are people for whom STS is simply their choice. It is there path.
A: Close.
Q: So, it is a judgment and a disservice to try and to convert someone to your path, even of you perceive the end result of the path they are on that leads to dissolution? It is still their path.
A:Yes.
Q:(L) And, if you send 'buckets of love and light' to such a one, and that is the path, you violating their freewill?
A: You might as well send "buckets" of vomit as the that is how they will react.
Q:(MN) Why send anything? just be neutral?
A: Judgment is STS.
Q:(L) You told us before that stars and planets are portals, or openings into other density's. Is
it possible that this oncoming wave, this Realm Border Crossing will be accessed through these type of portals, that it is not something that is actually in our 'space' but that it would emanate through stars and planets? Am i onto something here?
A: You are starting down a long path.
Q:(L) So, it is complex. When i was rereading Noah...
A: Just remember: All prophecies attached to calender dates are useless unless you wished to be sucked up by 4th density STS forces

So wake up, smell the coffee before you burn it, if you chose.

 

[Laura]

I will also add that we do not give out names, addresses, or private situations to others; that is the main reason for saying "if you want to help, donate and we'll see that it goes where it is needed." Privacy is foremost. For all we know, you are some kind of agent collecting names and addresses of vulnerable people.

Additionally, if you want to claim your gift as a tax deduction, it must go to a legal 501(c)(3) organization and that also means that you cannot, except in special cases, control what the funds are used for.

Added: It also appears to me that you came with an agenda to change the focus and purpose of this forum and sought to wave money and gifts around as your way in. Sorry, we don't play that game, we are not for sale to anyone.

Further, it also seems that you didn't read the forum guidelines very well and really have no conception of what we do here or why.

So, all things taken into consideration, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Joe]

I cringe when I read a post from someone whom is almost certainly very intelligent and well studied in many disciplines. The responses that follow are almost always degrading and offer very little in the form of spiritual growth. While I understand that forum promotes A Work that follows the teaching of many great philosophers such as Gujedarion and others. The problem is that I am already well versed and have more than a working man's understanding of their teachings. What this means is that I am clearly seeing that their teachings are being warped and cherry-picked to tailor the agenda of the forums hierarchy.

Do you mean that you are well versed in Gurdjieffian teachings?

Since it was made very clear to me early on, that my particular path was not welcome, a red flag was raised and it was flapping violently in the wind. Why would people from a forum who promote the very same knowledge have an aversion to someone who has reached many of the same conclusions but only though different manners. The only thing that I can reasonably think is that much of what is being taught here is fraudulent.

Interesting conclusion. Not a very logical one though.

This indicates to me that the hierarchy running this show are well aware that their teachings can not be verified in any other manner since everything they are saying and teachings are outright lies. In other words, someone who claims to have a real ability to tap into these phenomenon also have the ability to see this. In or short, this was a direct threat.

If you say so.

I an bring this next piece of information up with some reluctance but I think it is relevant. I have made a couple of attempts to help and offered to buy the people of this forum the suggested reading material as well as some of the more expensive reading material in an attempt to make these books available to all the members who are serious in their Work. Instead, I was directed to the donation button at the top of the screen. I have no problem spending a great deal of money for the betterment of this community but when I am basically told that all I need to do is make a monetary donations that will not allow me to follow my money and see the direct impact of its contributing, a red flag goes up as well.

Maybe you were unaware that you would have been donating to a non-profit organisation, which is essentially a charity. How many other charities have you donated to that made it possible for you to "follow the money" precisely in terms of how it was spent rather than asking that donations be given freely to the charity in order that it can use them as it sees fit to further it's publicly stated goals, which it is legally required to do?

People, I will fall short from calling this path a cult but the signs are there for anyone who can still think with any independence. Group consensus and approval of a concept or theory is the farthest thing away from making something an objective truth. All it means it that there is widespread delusion.

Oh please! Can't you be more original?

I joined here with an open mind and intended on becoming a very valuable member.

Was that your intention regardless of whether or not you had anything valuable to contribute?

If not with my personal insight then with my pocketbook. But I will not make blind donations that can not be proven to me that the donations are benefiting the community at large. Sure, the argument that the donations help to keep the forum operating and thus spreading the message but I envisioned a plan that would allow me to directly help the members that were doing the necessary Work. Stuff like help paying a mortgage bill when someone is a bad need or perhaps buying the grocery for a family in need. I was not interested in anyone's personal info. All I wanted to know is that my donations were going to those who were in direct need. Can anyone give an example where Laura and company have used their earnings and donation to help out a single member of the "family"

Yeah, there are plenty of examples, but since you have already made up your mind about us, there's not much point in addressing that particular "issue" of yours.

I can only Imagine is that this message will be deemed as proof that I am a psychopath with delusions of grandeur. That is your prerogative to think such things but that doesn't make them truth.

Dunno about psychopath, but as for delusions of grandeur....If the shoe fits!

I have no ides how short the life spam of this post will have before it is deleted so please read it soon. I see many good and kind hearted people here who want nothing more than to do the right thing. You are the ones that muss listen to your conscious.

Don't worry, your post will be here for a long time.

I am listening to mine. I will miss the interactions that i have had with of the great minds here. Good luck to all of you. I know that the majority of the members here are very kind and were practicing STO before the catchy little phrase caught on.

Good luck to you too.

 

[Buddy]

astrozombie, the C's said that ignorance endangers and indeed, it's what sitting and you don't know that's endangering you.

I read back through all sitting's posts before responding on that thread that seems to have you upset. What I see is a consistent pattern of refusing to allow his self-concept to submerge into a flow of learning long enough to actually attain much depth of knowledge or experience. sitting even thinks the almonds he ate as a result of Cayce's advice are the same almonds that Cayce referred to (molecule of cyanide in the pit). If it had been otherwise, sitting's self-importance would surely have informed us of this, OSIT.

You jump to a lot of conclusions in your post above, as does sitting in his posts, so I see a resonance between you and sitting's forum persona and your reaction here doesn't come as a surprise to me.

Hopefully your life path will continue to enrich you and one day you will look back on this thread and see results of personal growth and the truth of what people are saying.

 

[Anthony]

It appears that you are not so certain of what you are saying and are pushing others
to confirm your beliefs.

I can only Imagine is that this message will be deemed as proof that I am a psychopath with delusions of grandeur. That is your prerogative to think such things but that doesn't make them truth.

I don't even think that you want to leave or otherwise you would already do so.

 

[Laura]

Who ever said that this forum is a charity? If people are having hardships, it is possible, because of there beliefs, in the very system that they trusted, that has helped promote their fall too financial, and spiritual decline. They have to figure this out themselves, as a possible lesson profile.

c.a., while I understand what you are trying to get at here, I think you sort of generalized a bit.

Yes, it is possible that some people have hardships because of their beliefs in the system and social constructs, but that is not always the case. Very often, people have hardships because they are specifically targeted to keep them down and out. Yes, they may have to learn about this "targeting" in order to get up and out, but in the meantime, they need a hand.

No, QFG is not specifically set up as a charity - it is set up for research - but as a result of that research, we determined that we did need to set up something that could more directly help people in material ways: FOTCM.

For years, I was able to provide others with needed research materials via QFG under its mandate, (which included books, health research stuff like supplements, sauna blankets and proper cookware etc) but clearly, more was needed. We are now in the process of expanding FOTCM's activity in a significant way but all of that is discussed on the FOTCM forum which is accessible only to members.

We have a pretty good system of effectively utilizing resources but, as noted above, this is done PRIVATELY for very good reasons. Certainly, the IRS may inspect our records, but we don't post names of charity cases nor do we give out their situations and addresses, most particularly not to any Tom, Dick, Harry or Simon who comes along claiming to want to distribute largesse if only we'll hand over our mailing list.

Bottom line is: if research, encouragement, mutual support, doesn't do the job, yeah, we will step in and haul someone out of the pit if possible.

 

[Ennio]

I cringe when I read a post from someone whom is almost certainly very intelligent and well studied in many disciplines. The responses that follow are almost always degrading and offer very little in the form of spiritual growth. While I understand that forum promotes A Work that follows the teaching of many great philosophers such as Gujedarion and others. The problem is that I am already well versed and have more than a working man's understanding of their teachings. What this means is that I am clearly seeing that their teachings are being warped and cherry-picked to tailor the agenda of the forums hierarchy.

High intelligence and well-studiedness is no guarantee of someone's willingness or ability to work on themselves and see how their thinking, behavior, and programmed responses guide their lives, and effect the lives of others. And, as this forum shows, there are a great many angles and great depths of research that go very far in explaining our current state. That you are "already well versed" suggests to me that your cup is really full, and that you simply do not appreciate what's being shared here, and it's utility. You are making assessments based on your emotional reactions to things, and not enough data.

If you do decide to stay and work through this I sincerely hope you drop the 'zombie' from your forum name. We are trying, as much as possible, to get away from the mindlessness that characterizes zombie-like behavior. And the extent to which you identify enough with the word zombie - enough to make it your forum name, is not helpful to you I don't think.

 

[kenlee]

I an bring this next piece of information up with some reluctance but I think it is relevant. I have made a couple of attempts to help and offered to buy the people of this forum the suggested reading material as well as some of the more expensive reading material in an attempt to make these books available to all the members who are serious in their Work. Instead, I was directed to the donation button at the top of the screen. I have no problem spending a great deal of money for the betterment of this community but when I am basically told that all I need to do is make a monetary donations that will not allow me to follow my money and see the direct impact of its contributing, a red flag goes up as well.

Which just goes to show that you don't understand what true giving is, even at it's most practical level. You expect some kind of reward like you want the universe to respond to your "giving" on YOUR terms, not allowing for the creative principle to express itself freely on its own terms through the network. Have you even read the Wave Series and understood the essence of it and what it took to write such a masterpiece? When I first read it, it had such an awesomeness to it that it was like I was witnessing and being on another planet, another world. I recognized immediately that a 'Higher Mind' was involved in the writing of it. In light of that my own petty wants and expectations were nothing by comparison. I would think that that alone would inspire anyone to give what they could to this network (which includes monetary contribution if possible) just out of sheer appreciation (not to mention all the other objective research that's been going on with this group and website for well over a decade).

 

[Scottie]

I an bring this next piece of information up with some reluctance but I think it is relevant. I have made a couple of attempts to help and offered to buy the people of this forum the suggested reading material as well as some of the more expensive reading material in an attempt to make these books available to all the members who are serious in their Work. Instead, I was directed to the donation button at the top of the screen. I have no problem spending a great deal of money for the betterment of this community but when I am basically told that all I need to do is make a monetary donations that will not allow me to follow my money and see the direct impact of its contributing, a red flag goes up as well.

Anyone who wants to donate money can do so. Many people do. None of them leave strings attached to their donation, because they can see two things that you cannot:

1. Since this forum, Sott.net, and all our other projects and efforts have grown considerably over the last 10 years and helped many people in more ways than one, what money FOTCM/QFG does have is being put to good use.

2. Giving money on the condition that you control where it goes and how it is used (IOW that you know better despite #1) is not really donating.

Therefore, please "give" all your vast financial resources to somebody else, because none of us want it under the conditions you have insisted upon.

 

[SeekinTruth]

You have contradicted yourself quite a bit in a short time, astrozombie. If you read your own previous posts in the last few weeks, you should be able to see you've been all over the place (doesn't necessarily mean you will see, though).

If you came here to impress or "teach" or offer largesse with strings attached, of course it's not surprising that you were disappointed.

 

[Keit]

I was not interested in anyone's personal info. All I wanted to know is that my donations were going to those who were in direct need. Can anyone give an example where Laura and company have used their earnings and donation to help out a single member of the "family"

Funny how you are not interested in personal info, but then ask for an example about a "single member". AZ, it's so disingenuous, it's laughable. You enormous self importance too.

The fact is, this forum helped and continues to help many people, who are given an opportunity to grow and do things they wouldn't be able otherwise. And Laura and the crew choose to do it anonymously also due to privacy, but also due to concepts like humility and dignity. But clearly such concepts are totally unfamiliar to you. Please take your delusions of grandeur and amateurism elsewhere.

 

[shellycheval]

astrozombie

I joined here with an open mind and intended on becoming a very valuable member. If not with my personal insight then with my pocketbook.

Well, as someone once commented in a response on the SOTT news page:
“Money won’t get you your letter into Hogwarts.”

What we value here cannot be bought at any price and can only be earned though one’s own individual efforts and feedback/teachings from the network.

astrozombie

The problem is that I am already well versed and have more than a working man's understanding of their teachings. What this means is that I am clearly seeing that their teachings are being warped and cherry-picked to tailor the agenda of the forums hierarchy. What this means is that I am clearly seeing that their teachings are being warped and cherry-picked to tailor the agenda of the forums hierarchy.

Oh Geeze!—can you even begin to hear the out of control ego/predator-mind speaking here with its insufferable, arrogant tone, and self-importance?
The attention seeking aspect of the DRAMA in your "final" farewell is evidence of such.

I would like to reply with an Anart “big-stick” type of retort and wup you with it for attacking my "home,"
but I will refrain and point you to one of our favorite sayings instead:

“Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others—lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions—lies. Your teaching—lies. Your theories, your art—lies. Your social life, your family life—lies. And what you think of yourself—lies also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day. You will see that you are different from what you think you are.”
From “First Initiation” By Jeanne de Salzmann/Gurdjieff

astrozombie

I can only Imagine is that this message will be deemed as proof that I am a psychopath with delusions of grandeur.

Psychopath?—probably not
Delusions of grandeur—you said it.

Also, astrozombie, you are not special. You are only one of a type we see here fairly regularly—intelligent, confident, and so certain that you know more than Laura and the Forum that you find it nearly impossible to get out of the Predator’s grip and free yourself.

If you ever decide you want to follow the true path through the “straight and narrow” gate, you will find no better people on the planet to be associated with to help you on your journey than Laura and the people here. If you do not find your way to the true path then you will remain stuck in that most painful of between places with just enough knowledge to know The Matrix has you, but not enough to move on. Good Luck to you.
shellycheval

MakeEmTalk
A gift leaves your sphere of control at the moment you give it. You therefore need to let go of any expectations around that gift when you give it. It becomes someone else's property to use as they see fit. If you give a fancy punchbowl as a wedding gift, with visions of fancy parties being hosted by the bride & groom, with 'your' punchbowl at the center, I guarantee your expectations will set you up for a fall when you next encounter the punchbowl and it's being used as the dog's water bowl. If you were to let go of any expectations, it would be okay simply to see that they had found a use for it.
Brilliant analogy

c.a.
And you’re not giving, if you have expectations of a return. That is clearly an STS mentality, and manipulation on your part.
Agreed.