Gregory James - Faux "Master"?

[Buddy]

I think Gregory is a very nice person, and I thought he wrote a good article about John Major Jenkins...

I too think of GregoryJ as a nice guy. For me, some of his stuff is understandable in the abstract but not clear in the concrete. Evidently an issue for me as well.

I did like the insight into classical 'subjectivity' on his blog entry: Eye of the beholder: _http://supremeboundlessway.com/2011/12/28/in-the-eye-of-the-beholder-right-relationship-objective-judgement/

But this is the kind of writing I prefer and would like to emulate:
The kind of truth you can’t argue with:
_http://www.raptitude.com/2011/08/the-kind-of-truth-you-cant-argue-with/

I can just feel it to the bone.

 

[Gertrudes]

Well it’s probably confusing because most of it is useless word salad BS to begin with, that is then propped up with more of the same and a dollop of wishful thinking.

Try and find ANYTHING in what they write that is a data point of knowledge that you can USE. Sure it all sounds as if it’s supposed to mean something, but what does it actually mean, what Knowledge can you find in it that you can use? No wonder it’s confusing!

Funny you say that, when I first read it my reaction was "what a load of (nasty word here)". Then I re read Gregory's words and got confused :) his word usage came across as unsubstantiated by experience and really, word salad, but then I thought that maybe he does, or should, mean something, and gullible me extricated a meaning from it. Insidious!

 

[Laura]

My observation is that Gregory is very young and inexperienced. He has "taken a course", so to say, that apparently promises to make him a "master" of some sort, and bought into it, not realizing that true initiation comes via a very different route and involves truly dying to the self and hopefully, being re-born. All that being said, he seems to have a good heart and some real promise. It remains to be seen if the Universe has actually hailed him and if he is capable of responding and surviving the exchange.

 

[Seraphina]

I follow Gregory and a lot of other people and pages that I do not necessarily agree with everything they say or believe. It's my responsibility to refine my own discernment, hold on to what is useful and discard what isn't. Life isn't black and white. Great thinkers can have bad ideas and be mislead. None of us are perfect, so I don't expect perfection. In a world of psychopaths and ignorance, I admire anyone with a genuine desire to seek truth and objectivity, also, I worship none as a guru or master. We are all students and teachers.

 

[darksai]

I follow Gregory and a lot of other people and pages that I do not necessarily agree with everything they say or believe. It's my responsibility to refine my own discernment, hold on to what is useful and discard what isn't. Life isn't black and white. Great thinkers can have bad ideas and be mislead. None of us are perfect, so I don't expect perfection. In a world of psychopaths and ignorance, I admire anyone with a genuine desire to seek truth and objectivity, also, I worship none as a guru or master. We are all students and teachers.

Reading through the thread, this post seemed a little out of place to me. My first impression was as though you were responding to someone to clarify your position on the topic, but looking through the thread again, this your first post in it. To be honest, it really sounds to me like, having read what some of the members have to say about Gregory, that you felt the need to justify that you follow Gregory (and others) on your facebook by stating why, after which you've a series of statements that don't really follow from one another while touch (very broadly) on some of the main topics on Sott.net and Cassiopaea.org. I would suggest you consider thinking back to about how you felt at the time of writing because it really sounds like you're running a program in the above quote.

 

[Seraphina]

I follow Gregory and a lot of other people and pages that I do not necessarily agree with everything they say or believe. It's my responsibility to refine my own discernment, hold on to what is useful and discard what isn't. Life isn't black and white. Great thinkers can have bad ideas and be mislead. None of us are perfect, so I don't expect perfection. In a world of psychopaths and ignorance, I admire anyone with a genuine desire to seek truth and objectivity, also, I worship none as a guru or master. We are all students and teachers.

Reading through the thread, this post seemed a little out of place to me. My first impression was as though you were responding to someone to clarify your position on the topic, but looking through the thread again, this your first post in it. To be honest, it really sounds to me like, having read what some of the members have to say about Gregory, that you felt the need to justify that you follow Gregory (and others) on your facebook by stating why, after which you've a series of statements that don't really follow from one another while touch (very broadly) on some of the main topics on Sott.net and Cassiopaea.org. I would suggest you consider thinking back to about how you felt at the time of writing because it really sounds like you're running a program in the above quote.

I do not feel the need to justify anything. I was adding my observation of him and using him as an example of not falling into a trap of all or nothing thinking. Like the new agey post he made...yea it was pretty much word salad and confusing, but I've also seen him write good, thought provoking, articles. Then I use the generalities because I find that kind of situation in every other person, group, or news source I follow....some info good, some bad...but I don't throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water for occaisional misguided thinking or difference of opinion.

I suppose another point is not to fall into accepting everything from someone we "follow" just because they have said or written things that we agree with. It takes constant vigilance using discernment, like we're doing here in this discussion on this forum, to get to better understanding. Also, I've friended or followed a lot of people and pages because of common fellow forum members. It's best not to assume they're on the 4th Way path and doing the work, just because of the association.

Maybe in my brevity I didn't make my point clear, my apologies.

P.S. As for the other guy referring to him as Master Gregory, he is a teacher of Taichi, and it is customary for students to refer to their teacher as Master. Just like in Japanese martial arts, the teacher is referred to as Sensei, which basically means the same thing.

 

[anart]

I do not feel the need to justify anything. I was adding my observation of him and using him as an example of not falling into a trap of all or nothing thinking. Like the new agey post he made...yea it was pretty much word salad and confusing, but I've also seen him write good, thought provoking, articles. Then I use the generalities because I find that kind of situation in every other person, group, or news source I follow....some info good, some bad...but I don't throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water for occaisional misguided thinking or difference of opinion.

Hi Seraphina - do you think someone here is falling into all or nothing thinking about this? You do seem to be a bit emotional about it, which usually indicates that a corn has been stepped on, so what's up?

 

[Seraphina]

I do not feel the need to justify anything. I was adding my observation of him and using him as an example of not falling into a trap of all or nothing thinking. Like the new agey post he made...yea it was pretty much word salad and confusing, but I've also seen him write good, thought provoking, articles. Then I use the generalities because I find that kind of situation in every other person, group, or news source I follow....some info good, some bad...but I don't throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water for occaisional misguided thinking or difference of opinion.

Hi Seraphina - do you think someone here is falling into all or nothing thinking about this? You do seem to be a bit emotional about it, which usually indicates that a corn has been stepped on, so what's up?

The following post one post I had in mind when I wrote mine. I agree with the opinion about the new agey language here, but also feel he's written some worthwhile articles. He may or may not be setting himself up as a guru, or maybe others see him that way, I don't know. I'm just saying, I don't discount everything he's written because of some of what he's written....I do the same with everything or everyone else I study or follow, Like The Wave Series, Gurdjieff, reg or alternative news, or whatever.

I don't understand how I'm coming off as emotional. I'm sorry if I added noise.

Lisa, I personally see A LOT of red flags in these two individuals, both Gregory James and Michael Fusch. The whole flavor of their statements comes across to me as new agey, detached from reality, and as trying to place us at the level of God. Well, we aren't God, nor Christ, as you said.

You have the opportunity now to recognize your True Design — the Divine Architecture of your Root Origin. Your suffering is a product of having forgotten why you came. You may no longer afford to forget

This is ambiguous and can have different interpretations. For one, it can easily be read under a new age lenses where we simply have to tap to that Amazing being that is us to remember why we came so that we can stop suffering. The point, as I see it, isn't to remember why we came, otherwise why forgetting? The point is to learn, look at what is around us, not try to achieve some supposed pre birth state. We are not pre birth, we are here, now, not there. If this is the meaning behind his words, it seems way too far out in the clouds to me....
Maybe I'm reading it too literally though, and others may see it differently.

Michael Fuchs: Every moment is bliss i we can live from higher self...we are meant to live in this joyous state of consciousness 24/7 for bliss is none other than who we are in our soul...as brother gregory points out everything else is a delusion...thanls for the reminder...every step every breath bliss...grin anything which comes between us and this must be dropped transformed etc...a guide like master gregory is indispensible...

Brother and Master Gregory?? This guy seems to be setting himself up as a guru. Either Gregory, or Michael has just decided to see him as such. Even so, this is looking creepier and creepier. Michael Fuchs talks about bliss and that everything else is a delusion. Well, here's how that reads to me: I'll stop paying my bills, maybe I'll even stop working, this planet earth is all a delusion, let me just enjoy all of these chemicals that are dancing around in my brain and totally immerse myself into further self centered bliss (read: oblivion).

we are no less than god...truly...all is god...as jesus and all the great ones have taught...no judgement only acceptance of the love the truth the bliss...smile

This, again, is putting us at the level of the creator. Personally I find that to be quite an arrogant statement, in the sense that it ignores, again, the reality of us and of the situation. Does he even know the meaning of what he is saying? Maybe we will be at the level of the creator when we reach 6d. Right now we aren't, if we were would the world look the way it is looking like right now? And what is the point of assessing our level wit that of God? I dunno but there seems to be a lot of rumbling about things the neither he nor we are yet ready to understand, rather then focusing on objective reality, at the level we are.

I won't carry on because to be honest I find everything this guy says to be new age mumbo jumbo. It looks like he's quite happy with detaching himself from reality and just get lost in an orgy of blissful emotions.

Gregory then talks about suffering and ends up saying:

That said, transcendence of suffering the constraint of our ignorance is the greatest of all things, as it is from here that we are truly capable of bringing positive change to others – to BE what we are meant to BE (a light on a hilltop that cannot be hidden). When we transcend this misapprehension of things – and our attachment to the fallacy in its stead – we no longer contribute to the sufferings of others, and we no longer forget why we are

That transcendence of suffering he talks about sounds a bit ambiguous, not to mention the light on a hilltop we are supposed be. His word usage seems to have hints of new age, but maybe that's just me. Although I agree with him that attachment to a misapprehension of things will lead to more suffering, so in that sense transcending suffering seems to equate with stopping the unconscious suffering that is part of our Work here on the forum. I would add that unconscious, automatic suffering would then be replaced by conscious suffering, the one we experience as we strive for growth.

I pretty much agree with your assessment Lisa, I don't think that a shortcut will lead us anywhere (although some may chose to do so), nor do I think that we should pursue a state of bliss.

We may strive toward this 'perfection', this stated 'bliss', but is this something attainable realistically in this dimension by people engaged in doing the Work?

As I currently see it, we are striving to become better, and when genuinely doing so searching for bliss is out of the equation. Bliss implies that the subject is searching for feeling good, not to become a better person.
Often becoming a better person involves feeling very bad, it is part of growth. I think that there are far more important things then trying to feel good, or blissful, both of which are rooted on self gratification. Sure, I don't like to suffer either! But the more I look for feeling good the less attention I pay into becoming a better person, and the more suffering I'll get on a long term. Conscious suffering would be applicable here, where I choose not to feel temporarily good to favor my longer term growth. This is how I see it, others may wish to correct or add something. Hope that makes sense though!

Who is Gregory though? Having another guy calling him master doesn't sound good to me. If it's Gregory himself that's trying to create that aura around himself I'd just ignore him entirely, but we don't know that yet.

EDIT: Having re read Lisa's posts my interpretation of Gregory's words changed, so I altered my post accordingly.

 

[anart]

The following post one post I had in mind when I wrote mine. I agree with the opinion about the new agey language here, but also feel he's written some worthwhile articles. He may or may not be setting himself up as a guru, or maybe others see him that way, I don't know. I'm just saying, I don't discount everything he's written because of some of what he's written....I do the same with everything or everyone else I study or follow, Like The Wave Series, Gurdjieff, reg or alternative news, or whatever.

I don't understand how I'm coming off as emotional. I'm sorry if I added noise.

It's not noise, I was just curious about what you were thinking. Sometimes we identify with things or people, or ideas and take them as part of ourselves in some way and when they're challenged, we feel challenged ourselves. When that happens it's really useful to try to see it for what it is. A lot of people on this forum have basically gone through "newage recovery" due to getting duped in any number of ways by the newage, feel good mind traps and because of that they are really sensitive to "pretty lies" used to put people to sleep. So, often, it comes across as throwing the baby out with the bathwater when all it really is is a strong acknowledgement that something is not true - in a world where truth is so important because it is so rare. fwiw.

 

[Seraphina]

The following post one post I had in mind when I wrote mine. I agree with the opinion about the new agey language here, but also feel he's written some worthwhile articles. He may or may not be setting himself up as a guru, or maybe others see him that way, I don't know. I'm just saying, I don't discount everything he's written because of some of what he's written....I do the same with everything or everyone else I study or follow, Like The Wave Series, Gurdjieff, reg or alternative news, or whatever.

I don't understand how I'm coming off as emotional. I'm sorry if I added noise.

It's not noise, I was just curious about what you were thinking. Sometimes we identify with things or people, or ideas and take them as part of ourselves in some way and when they're challenged, we feel challenged ourselves. When that happens it's really useful to try to see it for what it is. A lot of people on this forum have basically gone through "newage recovery" due to getting duped in any number of ways by the newage, feel good mind traps and because of that they are really sensitive to "pretty lies" used to put people to sleep. So, often, it comes across as throwing the baby out with the bathwater when all it really is is a strong acknowledgement that something is not true - in a world where truth is so important because it is so rare. fwiw.

ok...yes I can definitely see your point. I certainly did go through the whole new age recovery thing, myself. I also recognize the whole new age thing as part of the process that lead to here. I don't think I was identifying with him personally, at least not that I'm aware of.

 

[GregoryJ]

Hi everyone. I am just arriving in from a retreat and I am due to fly out in the morning with many things to complete prior, so I literally have just moments to reply. I haven't even had the chance to read everything in the thread... mostly just skimmed it, so my appraisal of things may be a bit off.

What stood out most, off the bat, was a few people are putting their conclusions before their research, and being surprisingly rude to boot. None of my business, of course. Everyone if free to have their opinions.

First, Michael Fuchs is not an associate of mine. I don't even know him. He just happens to be commenting on my post. Nowhere have I said or implied that I agree with anything he has stated.

Secondly, I don't ask anyone to call me "Master". It is always interesting to me how this word stirs up such strong emotions in people. I am a master of TaiChi... this is a traditional title given to me by my teacher who recognizes that I have met the criteria to receive the title. It doesn't mean a damn thing to me, and frankly I don't much care for it – mainly because, it seems, I have to spend so much time explaining it. Were my title "Doctor", I don't imagine I'd receive so much criticism. I have asked people in the past to NOT call me Master, especially on FB, because it is inappropriate.

As far as my statement in question, I really thought I answered the question clearly. I happened to pull that blurb out of an article I wrote (http://supremeboundlessway.com/2011/09/06/the-great-transition/). Laura read the article and enjoyed it, at least that is what she told me: that it was well-written and makes good points. I could see how, if taken out of context, it may be misperceived, but I hardly call it "word salad". And if those of you pinning me with the "new age" tag took a moment to read some of my work, you'd see I come down quite hard on the new age scene.

Anyway, I'd love to stay and chat. I am too busy at the moment, and have much on my plate. I am disappointed to see such a misconstrued attack on my character from pretty much baseless perspectives – and from people who I have treated with the courtesy of a friend. I do agree that I have much to work on, and I am doing that work. So what if I am not a Fourth Way practitioner? I have stated elsewhere in this forum my reverence for the practice and my observation that it is similar to my own. It seems the ONLY path that is acceptable here is the Fourth Way, and it is my estimation that this is very limiting and shallow. I hope I'm wrong. Time will tell. That is, if I am allowed to play in your playground even though I play with a different ball.

Good day.

 

[anart]

Hi everyone. I am just arriving in from a retreat and I am due to fly out in the morning with many things to complete prior, so I literally have just moments to reply. I haven't even had the chance to read everything in the thread... mostly just skimmed it, so my appraisal of things may be a bit off.

Yep - it might be worth your while to actually read each post in the thread before coming to erroneous conclusions.

 

[Bernhard]

I am disappointed to see such a misconstrued attack on my character from pretty much baseless perspectives – and from people who I have treated with the courtesy of a friend.

You really should read the whole thread because no one was "attacking" you.

Secondly, I don't ask anyone to call me "Master". It is always interesting to me how this word stirs up such strong emotions in people. I am a master of TaiChi... this is a traditional title given to me by my teacher who recognizes that I have met the criteria to receive the title. It doesn't mean a damn thing to me, and frankly I don't much care for it – mainly because, it seems, I have to spend so much time explaining it. Were my title "Doctor", I don't imagine I'd receive so much criticism. I have asked people in the past to NOT call me Master, especially on FB, because it is inappropriate.

For someone who doesn't care much for it, you do have spent much time explaining it. ;)
http://supremeboundlessway.com/2011/10/27/what-is-a-master/

 

[GregoryJ]

I am disappointed to see such a misconstrued attack on my character from pretty much baseless perspectives – and from people who I have treated with the courtesy of a friend.

You really should read the whole thread because no one was "attacking" you.

I apologize, sincerely. You are right, no one was attacking me. Please excuse the mistake; like I said, I had only minutes to read and reply, and I felt that since I noted some points which were being misconstrued (namely invalid associations surrounding the term "master" and my supposed/erroneously implied relationship to Mr. Fuchs, "god status", etc.). It was irresponsible to reply too hastily, but I was unsure if I'd get a chance before several days as I am traveling around the globe as we speak – limited internet accessibility, jet lag, etc. Since the thread seemed to be "all about me", and having noted connotations toward "new age" "guru" and "god-like" status, "BS word salad", etc. (which seemed a bit strong), naturally I felt I had better chime in, as indeed I have tremendous respect for many members of this forum and for the purpose of the forum itself.

I see now that the commentary was mostly about the FB post I wrote, and although I don't agree with everything put forth, the criticism is fair enough. Perhaps I didn't put enough thought into how the post could be perceived. I really only post such things to present thoughts for consideration. I have much respect for Lisa and wished to help her understand my perspective, as she was asking sincerely. Later (though already out of internet range), reflecting on my reply to her, I would have liked to add that there is a distinction to be made between conscious suffering (which I would term "enduring") and suffering the constraints of ignorance, whining and complaining, etc. Voyager's post from Gurdjieff touched on this nicely – we must "sacrifice our suffering". So when I said that our suffering is a product of having forgotten why we are here, I mean primarily that we have an opportunity that we all-too-often ignore and that changing our ignorant, whining suffering into fortified enduring is the way to make the best use of this opportunity. Also, that this makes us better people in the world. I am not trying to say that we are gods in the sense that the world doesn't matter or is all a delusion. I think a couple remarks in the thread lend too much assumption that I somehow support Mr. Fuchs' statements when actually I was just ignoring them – leaving him to his opinions. Here's a video clip that supports much of what I am saying and perhaps will supply some clarity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orxEawi9qro

Hi everyone. I am just arriving in from a retreat and I am due to fly out in the morning with many things to complete prior, so I literally have just moments to reply. I haven't even had the chance to read everything in the thread... mostly just skimmed it, so my appraisal of things may be a bit off.

Yep - it might be worth your while to actually read each post in the thread before coming to erroneous conclusions.

That's good advise, Anart. I'll do better to take more care in the future. Please accept my humble apology.

Some of my reaction was due to the following statements, which I still feel warrant addressing.

Secondly, I don't ask anyone to call me "Master". It is always interesting to me how this word stirs up such strong emotions in people. I am a master of TaiChi... this is a traditional title given to me by my teacher who recognizes that I have met the criteria to receive the title. It doesn't mean a damn thing to me, and frankly I don't much care for it – mainly because, it seems, I have to spend so much time explaining it. Were my title "Doctor", I don't imagine I'd receive so much criticism. I have asked people in the past to NOT call me Master, especially on FB, because it is inappropriate.

For someone who doesn't care much for it, you do have spent much time explaining it. ;)
http://supremeboundlessway.com/2011/10/27/what-is-a-master/

Yes, Spiral Out. And I think you know that I wrote that piece so to avoid having to explain it so many times. ;) And I think you know that it is a explanation of a classical perspective pertinent to the context of the tradition – rather than a self-agrandizing endeavor. If this is your idea of a contribution to the thread, dear friend, perhaps you could also import your insights and my clarifications from some of the conversations we've had on the matter. As our friendship has developed and proven mutually beneficial, you are likely to be in the best position to confirm for others that my intentions are well placed. I know the topic has been a sticking point for you, but I also know you have come to terms with it in the proper context.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I truly have appreciated it. :)

 

[anart]

Gregory, your first response was actually honest, which was refreshing. This latest one is stage management. I don't have fun at people's expense - ever. You are identified with your beliefs, it's very clear from your fb page and your comments here - the fact that you deny it so vehemently is rather proof of the matter. I'm simply noting that fact because identification prevents all of us from seeing things as they are, especially ourselves, no matter what that identification is. Very few people on this planet are not identified with something.

I'm certainly not telling you that you should not be the way you are, it's your life after all. No one expects you to participate on this forum if it's not for you - that's not a big deal at all. It should be understood however, that this forum is for pointing out and discussing the truth in each discussion that takes place to the best of our collective ability and since your post and behavior were brought up, that's what happened. You can ignore it or not, that's up to you, but please don't expect us to pretend to not see what we see regarding your behavior, your posts and your current mindset.

This is subjective; and you are expressing your disfavor of something taken out of context which obviously paints me in a very bad light. It is just a title as I have explained, it does not mean that I am perfect or that I regard myself that way. Were my title "Sifu", would you have the same reaction? I doubt it. Although, it means the same thing - in context to the practice. In context to the tradition, the title is appropriate, but certainly not on FB or anywhere outside the context of the practice of the art. As I have expressed, it is NOT a title I have given myself; it was given by my teacher. It does not mean I am "god" or "guru", only that I have met the criteria which is marked by the taking of the title, like "expert" or "adept" in that particular field. In fact, by our reckoning, it is the mark of one who now has the tools to truly BEGIN the Work. NOT one who has finished it.

This is just legalistic nitpicking and really, really silly. If your title of master were not extremely important to you (if you were not identified with it), you wouldn't be so bent out of joint at my pointing out how lacking in humility it is to allow others to call you that, in any context. What you don't seem to understand is that your protests here point out quite clearly where your identifications are - it really can't be any other way.


This is just blatantly disingenuous:

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I truly have appreciated it. :)

It's obvious that you don't appreciate the feedback you've received - you're really quite irritated by it because it contradicts the view you have of yourself. Admitting that would be a step in the right direction.