Gurdjieff. An introduction to his life and ideas

[GRiM]

Biography on Gurdjieff

The audio book version - read by William Welch - is quite an experience as well(...)

Did you buy it in mp3 format somewhere on the internet? The audiobook version is news to me, but I really love audiobooks, so I would be really happy if I can get myself a copy of it!

Yep - here is one link I found, though you might be able to find it at a less expensive price elsewhere - it is WELL worth the listen, Welch does a fabulous job with it. He actually passed away before finishing all of the book and a few sections are read by another person - very well done.

http://triadbooks.sectorlink.org/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=0919608167

Shipping estimate for these items: March 26, 2008
1 "Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, Read by Willam J. Welch"
Audio CD; $58.00

Sold by: triadbooks

:) Thanks again Anart! <3


edit: Im looking forward to listening to this book, ahhh cant wait!

 

[Johnno]

Biography on Gurdjieff

Yeah - way too many books, way too little time. Yes, 'Ladies of the Rope' is about the 'Left Bank Paris women's group' with which Gurdjieff worked after he had pretty much abandoned his active teaching to focus on his writing. It was considered quite an enigmatic move by Gurdjieff, by all those who have 'studied' his life.

All but one of the women in the group were lesbians - They were all renowned intellectuals, artists and authors - incredibly talented, accomplished, and brilliant women in their own right and quite fascinating to read about. Gurdjieff's interaction with them was even more fascinating - as the years went by it becomes obvious in the book that he cared quite deeply for these women.

I found it to be one of the more personally engaging books about Gurdjieff that I've read simply due to the interpersonal stories and involving and very human, and often damaged and dysfunctional, descriptions of the people in it. It's a subjective review, but the book gave me quite a lot of personal insight. fwiw. =)

Ladies of the Rope was excellent.

I've just read Katherine Hulme's book, Undiscovered Country which was a good read. Hulme was "Crockodeel" and worked in a variety of jobs including milliner, welding Liberty class ships in Los Angeles and an aid worker for refugees in post WWII Europe. Solano (another of the ladies in the Rope) edited it, this is described rather humorously slashing a swathe of red ink through rather flowery manuscripts!

Hulme later wrote "A Nun's Story" which was adapted to a movie with Audrey Hepburn.

It was interesting that most of the Ladies of the Rope didn't immerse themselves with the Gurdjieff groups after Gurdjieff died.

 

[Jacques]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

Here's some pics of G, family and friends:

http://digitalseance.wordpress.com/galerie-dimage/la-galerie-de-gurdjieff/

 

[Kimber]

This is a detailed book that references a step by step Gurdjieff system in practical understandable manner. I have read ISOTM and BTTHS and various internet websites dedicated to Gurdjieff teachings. I plan to buy: Ladies of the rope. For those folks like me that after reading said mentioned works but still had questions, burning questions, a 'little slow' on the uptake or wanting to know the "why's" I would recommend this book.

The author; John Shirley claims no profound knowledge but simply states where his understanding is at- in the present in relationship to the tradition. As I said I had read ISOTM along with Castenada, but felt I had a limited grasp of Practical use or implementation of the System. After reading this book I now can have a excellent grasp of the system. ie- creating the friction/energy/seed between the Yes and No. Intentional suffering. Creating the kernel of SEEing with objectivity.

Because of my curiosity, I have to check the referenced material given by the author. (the ?? again) And as it always seems to happen, in this instance I found a statement which has no reference, But I feel is important. The author states there could exist another fourth way system which - may or Not to related to the Gurdjeff system. He goes on to say this is an accelerated path of the Sufis in which they call the 'Hurrying way'- the way of the three created bodies which involves the self remembering technique, sensing, being in the present, Not to be confused with free association.

I am only guessing that if this is valid information, so inturn could this Sufi system of 'hurrying' be that of Laura and the C's as presented as the Eiriu Eolas System? Maybe I am guilty of free association. Its an incredible coincidence. And it so possible LKJ could present this 'hurrying way' as she has earned this right.

I would recommend this book to those persons like me that require details on the Gurdjeiff system.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

Here's some pics of G, family and friends:

http://digitalseance.wordpress.com/galerie-dimage/la-galerie-de-gurdjieff/

Thanks for posting this! Looking at those pictures felt like looking at an old family album... And G is technically our ancestor, so I suppose it was a natural feeling. I receive a Gurdjieff newsletter in my e-mail, and they sent out a message yesterday in honor of G's birthday. I wish I'd have checked my e-mail yesterday when it was sent, but here's the Gurdjieff quote they sent in remembrance of him:

Any Prayer may be heard by the Higher Powers and a corresponding answer obtained only if uttered thrice:

Firstly, for the welfare or the peace of the souls of one's parents.

Secondly, for the welfare of one's neighbor.

And only thirdly, for oneself personally.

 

[Bar Kochba]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

I read ISOTM first before anything. I happened upon "Views from the Real World" next, then was down because I knew I wouldnt be able to afford Beelzebub for awhile. Then one day I found "Meetings" in a Bookmans for $3. I snatched it up and read it quickly. Then I found "Herald of Coming Good." In it Gurdjieff warns that reading his works out of order could cause irreparable damage to the being. I was worried for awhile, but there is nothing to be done about it now.

 

[shijing]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

Then I found "Herald of Coming Good." In it Gurdjieff warns that reading his works out of order could cause irreparable damage to the being. I was worried for awhile, but there is nothing to be done about it now.

This is the first I've heard of Gurdjieff's admonishment to read his books in order, and if it makes you feel any better, Bar Kochba, I don't know if there are many (or any) people here who finished Beelzebub's Tales before moving on to Gurdjieff's other books. I have yet to finish that one myself, although I am hoping to finally get to it this summer.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

Then I found "Herald of Coming Good." In it Gurdjieff warns that reading his works out of order could cause irreparable damage to the being. I was worried for awhile, but there is nothing to be done about it now.

This is the first I've heard of Gurdjieff's admonishment to read his books in order, and if it makes you feel any better, Bar Kochba, I don't know if there are many (or any) people here who finished Beelzebub's Tales before moving on to Gurdjieff's other books. I have yet to finish that one myself, although I am hoping to finally get to it this summer.

It's the first I've heard of this too. This might be related to wrong knowledge being worse than no knowledge at all. Some of G's books may lay a foundation that others build upon... So reading the "wrong" books first could lead to flawed beliefs - and to forming a wrong magnetic center. Maybe this was where he was coming from?

Or could there be more to it? At the beginning of Beelzebub's Tales G describes his "All and Everything" series as follows:

FIRST SERIES Three books under the title of Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson. An Objectively Impartial Criticism of the Life of Man.

SECOND SERIES Two books under the common title of Meetings with Remarkable Men.

THIRD SERIES Five books under the title of Life Is Real Only Then, When "I Am."

All written according to entirely new principles of logical reasoning and directed toward the accomplishment of the following three fundamental tasks:

FIRST SERIES To destroy, mercilessly and without any compromise whatever, in the mentation and feelings of the reader, the beliefs and views, by centuries rooted in him, about everything existing in the world.

SECOND SERIES To acquaint the reader with the material required for a new creation and to prove the soundness and good quality of it.

THIRD SERIES To assist the arising, in the mentation and in the feelings of the reader, of a veritable, nonfantastic representation not of that illusory world which he now perceives, but of the world existing in reality.

And then in the "Friendly Advice" which follows, G recommends reading each of his writings in a particular manner:

I find it necessary on the first page of this book, now ready for publication, to give the following advice: "Read each of my written expositions thrice. First—at least as you have already become mechanized to read all your contemporary books and newspapers, Second—as if you were reading aloud to another person, And only third—try to fathom the gist of my writings. Only then will you be able to count upon forming your own impartial judgment, proper to yourself alone, on my writings. And only then can my hope be actualized that according to your understanding you will obtain the specific benefit for yourself which I anticipate, and which I wish for you with all my being.

So did G craft his writings to have a particular effect on the being of the reader, which will only happen if they're read in a certain way? Or is it just that his more advanced stuff shouldn't be read until one has a solid foundation from which to grok it? If that's the case, I think a good foundation can be built without necessarily reading G's books in a certain order. This may not have been true back when Gurdjieff wrote them, but now we have so many resources to start from - ISOTM, Mouravieff, The Wave series, Secret History, this forum, etc.

But it is important to have a decent foundation before diving into some of G's writings. Misinterpretations and wrong ideas can become serious impediments to the work. The same can be said of the Cass material - there have been several people who joined this forum after reading some of the raw C's transcripts, and they formed some pretty zany ideas around them. Having proper context is crucial.

 

[Bar Kochba]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

In Herald of Coming Good, Gurdjieff says that only the first series of writings will be available to all. The second and third series will be made more difficult to get so that there is a better chance of them being read in order (these plans he made while he was still living, obviously). He also asked of his students and everyone who knew him to do everything they could to ensure his wishes were carried out. I cannot post the quote at this time, but will later.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

Gurdjieffs books are to be read in the order he specifies as each builds on previous material.

1st series shakes up ideas , asks questions and lays foundations and also leaves clues. One obvious example is 5th stopinder, Harnel Out - a change to the law of 7 not expounded in ISOTM. Read and familiarise with that, then later in Life Is Only Real find 5th stopinders. All books are interlinked. I was desperate to read all the books as I managed to track them all down at the same time but am glad I held off and read Beelzebub three times before moving on as it prevented mechanically jumping in and devouring the other books as 'factual' accounts. You will find Ideas in BT picked up in Meetings and again in LIOR. Its a fascinating puzzle.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

In Herald of Coming Good, Gurdjieff says that only the first series of writings will be available to all. The second and third series will be made more difficult to get so that there is a better chance of them being read in order (these plans he made while he was still living, obviously). He also asked of his students and everyone who knew him to do everything they could to ensure his wishes were carried out. I cannot post the quote at this time, but will later.

Gurdjieffs books are to be read in the order he specifies as each builds on previous material.

1st series shakes up ideas , asks questions and lays foundations and also leaves clues. One obvious example is 5th stopinder, Harnel Out - a change to the law of 7 not expounded in ISOTM. Read and familiarise with that, then later in Life Is Only Real find 5th stopinders. All books are interlinked. I was desperate to read all the books as I managed to track them all down at the same time but am glad I held off and read Beelzebub three times before moving on as it prevented mechanically jumping in and devouring the other books as 'factual' accounts. You will find Ideas in BT picked up in Meetings and again in LIOR. Its a fascinating puzzle.

So Gurdjieff clearly placed deep importance on reading his works in order, and for good reason. A proper foundation must be laid, otherwise truth can be misinterpreted and lead to false knowledge. Which, as G said, could cause irreparable damage. It seems that the following parable of "Jesus" applies here:

No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old. And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins.

In other words, you can't just graft new information onto an existing belief system. Your entire way of thinking must change first. You must "empty your cup." Which is what G's 1st series is for. That said, nowadays we can also get there through the Fourth Way work being done here and through studying Laura's writings. In fact, THIS is the current manifestation of the Fourth Way. Gurdjieff is still a valuable part of it, but his works aren't the "whole enchilada" like they were when he wrote them. So although it would still be beneficial to read his books in proper order, it's not as critical as it once was, osit.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

In Herald of Coming Good, Gurdjieff says that only the first series of writings will be available to all. The second and third series will be made more difficult to get so that there is a better chance of them being read in order (these plans he made while he was still living, obviously). He also asked of his students and everyone who knew him to do everything they could to ensure his wishes were carried out. I cannot post the quote at this time, but will later.

Gurdjieffs books are to be read in the order he specifies as each builds on previous material.

1st series shakes up ideas , asks questions and lays foundations and also leaves clues. One obvious example is 5th stopinder, Harnel Out - a change to the law of 7 not expounded in ISOTM. Read and familiarise with that, then later in Life Is Only Real find 5th stopinders. All books are interlinked. I was desperate to read all the books as I managed to track them all down at the same time but am glad I held off and read Beelzebub three times before moving on as it prevented mechanically jumping in and devouring the other books as 'factual' accounts. You will find Ideas in BT picked up in Meetings and again in LIOR. Its a fascinating puzzle.

So Gurdjieff clearly placed deep importance on reading his works in order, and for good reason. A proper foundation must be laid, otherwise truth can be misinterpreted and lead to false knowledge. Which, as G said, could cause irreparable damage. It seems that the following parable of "Jesus" applies here:

No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old. And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins.

In other words, you can't just graft new information onto an existing belief system. Your entire way of thinking must change first. You must "empty your cup." Which is what G's 1st series is for. That said, nowadays we can also get there through the Fourth Way work being done here and through studying Laura's writings. In fact, THIS is the current manifestation of the Fourth Way. Gurdjieff is still a valuable part of it, but his works aren't the "whole enchilada" like they were when he wrote them. So although it would still be beneficial to read his books in proper order, it's not as critical as it once was, osit.

Gurdjieffs books contain indications of how to work and are therefore still very relevant. I have read threads on this forum where people are 'taming' 'i's, rejecting 'i's , accepting other 'i's when its obvious from what they are writing that they are relatively new or inexperienced. For them to actually for on change will result in a number of possibilities : 1. They are simply re-arranging the furniture , it looks like change but its superficial. 2. They will reject a 'negative i' prematurely without realising what a great resource they have rejected but it was manifesting at the wrong time.

BTs raises questions - its a pondering book as well as having answers 'the keys are not near the doors'.
The Arch Absurd - The Sun Neither Lights of Heats - how do we make our own sun light and heat? Do you find the answer in BTs? In MWRM? in the Forum here?

 

[Argonaut]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

Gurdjieffs books contain indications of how to work and are therefore still very relevant.

Definitely. That's not even in question.

[quote author=Stevie Argyll]
I have read threads on this forum where people are 'taming' 'i's, rejecting 'i's , accepting other 'i's when its obvious from what they are writing that they are relatively new or inexperienced. For them to actually for on change will result in a number of possibilities : 1. They are simply re-arranging the furniture , it looks like change but its superficial. 2. They will reject a 'negative i' prematurely without realising what a great resource they have rejected but it was manifesting at the wrong time.
[/quote]

I've read things like this too, but it doesn't mean that the forum as a whole has a poor grasp of the concepts. There are members at various levels of experience, and some of them are extremely knowledgeable. If the less experienced members are willing to submit to the forum as a collective Fourth Way teacher (a Man Number 5), networking and learning from the mirroring process and studying the recommended books, then their flawed concepts will be corrected.

[quote author=Stevie Argyll]

BTs raises questions - its a pondering book as well as having answers 'the keys are not near the doors'.

The Arch Absurd - The Sun Neither Lights of Heats - how do we make our own sun light and heat? Do you find the answer in BTs? In MWRM? in the Forum here?

[/quote]

You can find the answer by studying and learning from all of the above. Gurdjieff's form of the Fourth Way and the form it's taking currently aren't one and the same. Although they teach the same Truths, they don't necessarily do it the exact same way. Since Gurdjieff was a genuine Fourth Way teacher, his writings are an extremely valuable resource. But reading his books out of order - although not ideal - won't have the devastating consequences that it once had, IF one approaches them within the wider context of the Fourth Way in its current manifestation. And that "IF" is very important.

You might benefit from reading this thread: Imitation Fourth Way Groups Started by Gurdjieff Rejects. I recommend reading Laura's initial post there at the very least.

[EDIT: Added a link for the recommended books]

 

[Bar Kochba]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

"This plan, newly formed by me, consists in taking all possible measures to prevent my writings, with the exception of the first series, from becoming at once property 'accessible-to-everybody.' ...I do not consider it vain to address a sincere appeal to all readers of my books to help me to the best of their ability in every way to carry out this decision, so that no one interested in my writings should ever attempt to read them in any other than the indicated order; in other words, he should never read anything written by me before he is already well acquainted with the earlier works, even if someone, with a particular motive, should attempt to persuade him to commence the reading other than from the beginning. Believe me, you must take my word for it, that the exact carrying out of this wish of mine can be of great importance to you and your interests, and I, therefore, particularly stress and insist on it..." - Gurdjieff's Herald of Coming Good, pgs 56-58

 

[Bar Kochba]

Re: Biography on Gurdjieff

"...for certain people, a reading of my writings in any other than the indicated order (no matter if the reader has long been a follower of my ideas or has become one recently), can provoke undesirable phenomena in their genenral psyche, one of which in particular might paralyse forever the possibility of normal self-perfection." - Gurdjieff's Herald of Coming Good, pg 58. Now, I know that I have been a reader of this forum and Laura's material for about 5 years, but this kind of admonition still makes me nervous being that I read Meetings first and havent read either of the other two writings yet. As he also advises reading each book thrice, I will read Meetings twice more ONLY AFTER I have read Beelzebub 3 times.