Heart palpitations and muscle spasms in dogs

[Athena]

Now that you mention this angle, all the dogs were wormed about 10 days ago. I wonder... so, we'll be adding NAC and Milk thistle.

Were they dewormed with Ivermectin? Because it can cause seizures in Collies and Shelties.

Added: It's toxic for them due to the MDR1 gene mutation (both with Collies and Shelties). Apparently this gene encodes a protein that is responsible for removing certain drugs and toxins from the brain. Here is a link that explains it, and also includes a list of other pharmasuticals to be avoided.

_http://www.sheltie4me.com/info/display?PageID=5258

The most commonly prescribed drug on the list is ivermectin, a wormer used in many canine heartworm preventative treatments including Heartguard, Iverhart, Tri-Heart and Advantage DUO. Dogs in the affected breeds should use milbemycin oxide (Interceptor) for heartworm preventative instead of ivermectin as it’s generally considered a safer alternative. Ivermectin can also be found in many livestock wormers (dogs should be kept away during and for several days after livestock worming), and in home and yard insecticides (under the names avermectin or abamectin).

Normally, we use an organic de-worming med, but this last time we used the stuff from the vet. Also, Sebastian has a couple of the symptoms of hepatic encephalopathy - head rubbing, sluggishness, aimless wandering when he's outside.

So, milk thistle and NAC will definitely be added to his diet along with some peas and carrots (all the dogs, actually).

This morning though, he had no seizures/tremors in his jaw and seemed to be doing okay.

We'll see though.

 

[Andromeda]

Normally, we use an organic de-worming med, but this last time we used the stuff from the vet. Also, Sebastian has a couple of the symptoms of hepatic encephalopathy - head rubbing, sluggishness, aimless wandering when he's outside.

And all those symptoms started after he was sick and had to take all that medication. We figured that his instability might be because of bad joints and his face rubbing because of itchiness. It makes sense that his liver may be particularly sensitive after all he went through and that the new de-worming med could have overtaxed his system.

 

[Laura]

The vermifuge was "Profender" which contains these two things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emodepside

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel

 

[Keit]

The vermifuge was "Profender" which contains these two things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emodepside

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel

Well, apparently it can be toxic for collies and shelties. :( Take a look at this site, that also has a list of other damaging drugs for collies and shelties.

_http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vcpl/drugs.aspx

Many different drugs and drug classes have been reported to cause problems in Collies and other herding breed dogs that carry the MDR1 mutation.

We and other researchers have documented the toxicity that occurs with several of these drugs. Drugs that have been documented to cause problems in dogs with the MDR1 mutation include:[...]

Emodepside (Profender)-is a deworming drug approved for use in cats only in the U.S., but is approved for use in dogs in some other countries. Use of this drug in dogs with the MDR1 mutation has resulted in neurological toxicity.

 

[Gaby]

Another supplement that could only help independently of the cause, is alpha lipoic acid. It is one of the supplements that are given when there are liver problems, and it also helps with the detox process and DNA repair. It penetrates fatty tissues which is a plus when it comes to supplements. And it has been used in doggies with good results.

_http://www.holisticpetinfo.com/Antioxidants-for-Pets.html

Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA) is a sulfur-containing fatty acid naturally produced in your pet's body in trace amounts. It's often called the "universal antioxidant" because unlike most other antioxidants, vitamin C for instance, which works only in water, and vitamin E, which works only in fat, ALA, works in both water and fatty tissues. Thus, ALA can provide antioxidant protection to all your pet's cells and parts of its body, including the brain. ALA can also recycle or restore other oxidized forms of antioxidants, including vitamin C and vitamin E, back to their active states.

Alpha Lipoic Acid:

Exerts its powerful and unique antioxidant protection throughout the body
Restores mitochondrial and cellular antioxidant protection
Restoring numerous biological functions that are diminished with aging
Helps prevent cataracts

Alpha lipoic acid is especially beneficial to aging animals, and to those with cataracts.

In this site they say 300mg is a good dose for all sizes:

_http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/diabetes_in_dogs_and_cats.htm

IMO, that is a little bit too much, but then, it doesn't hurt as long as it is given with foods (it lowers blood sugar and that is why is recommended for diabetics).

 

[Laura]

The vermifuge was "Profender" which contains these two things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emodepside

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel

Well, apparently it can be toxic for collies and shelties. :( Take a look at this site, that also has a list of other damaging drugs for collies and shelties.

_http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vcpl/drugs.aspx

Many different drugs and drug classes have been reported to cause problems in Collies and other herding breed dogs that carry the MDR1 mutation.

We and other researchers have documented the toxicity that occurs with several of these drugs. Drugs that have been documented to cause problems in dogs with the MDR1 mutation include:[...]

Emodepside (Profender)-is a deworming drug approved for use in cats only in the U.S., but is approved for use in dogs in some other countries. Use of this drug in dogs with the MDR1 mutation has resulted in neurological toxicity.

Well, I think this may be the answer because Cherie was really "off" for a few days too as well as the other doggies, though much milder and we generally expect them to be "off their feed" for a day or two after worming. Sebastian, being much older and with more fragile health, was probably most affected. But Cherie was NOT herself for several days too.

 

[Z...]

At first I was WHAT! but then in all fairness I read about Profender and collies but your vet might have not so we cant blame her, especially because this is not mentioned anywhere in the label as far as I know.
There is this: "There is limited experience on the use of the product in sick and debilitated animals, thus the product should only be used based on a benefit-risk assessment for these animals." but most of the vets would dismiss this. Bad idea in Sebastian's case.

If I were you I would take him off heart medicine yesterday. I have a feeling she was completely off the mark with that. :(

 

[Keit]

At first I was WHAT! but then in all fairness I read about Profender and collies but your vet might have not so we cant blame her, especially because this is not mentioned anywhere in the label as far as I know.
There is this: "There is limited experience on the use of the product in sick and debilitated animals, thus the product should only be used based on a benefit-risk assessment for these animals." but most of the vets would dismiss this. Bad idea in Sebastian's case.

It's a good thing in general with dewormers and insecticides to double check the dosage and if the substance can be used on a specific animal. Another thing, especially in case of pyrethrin insecticides, is to explain to the owners that they shouldn't try and massage the solution into the skin or to apply two drops instead of one. There are many cases of cats experiencing severe pyrethrin poisoning simply because their owners thought that just one drop isn't enough, and better to make sure that all of it will get inside. It gets inside, all right, and then the poor kitty has a serious neurological reaction.

We were also told in class, that there was a case of a dead cow, when the owner sued veterinarian for negligence during the deworming procedure. As it turned out, the vet just sprinkled the solution on the withers, the owner saw it and thought that all that dripping solution shouldn't go to waste, so he started massaging the stuff deeper into the skin. Well, unfortunately, the cow couldn't handle it.

 

[Laura]

At first I was WHAT! but then in all fairness I read about Profender and collies but your vet might have not so we cant blame her, especially because this is not mentioned anywhere in the label as far as I know.
There is this: "There is limited experience on the use of the product in sick and debilitated animals, thus the product should only be used based on a benefit-risk assessment for these animals." but most of the vets would dismiss this. Bad idea in Sebastian's case.

If I were you I would take him off heart medicine yesterday. I have a feeling she was completely off the mark with that. :(

Well, I think we've solved the mystery. Joe picked up the doses and they were dispensed by the NEW girl who hasn't been there long and doesn't know our dogs. The vets didn't know that we had picked up the worm pills and done the worming (which we sorta do on a schedule). In fact, we didn't mention the worming to the vet at the time. It was only when Keit mentioned the toxicity thing that I realized that the timing here might be important.

Anyway, we called the vets' today and talked to the long-time nurse/receptionist. She knew as soon as we started talking what the problem was because she knew that this stuff should not be given to our dogs. But the other girl, who was new, didn't. I expect there's gonna be some fussin' going on down there, and rightly so! Geeze, Sebastian could have died!

Well, he's much better now. No more of those evil meds. We are detoxing him and the other puppies too. He's stopped having the shakes and I gave him half an apple today. He was SOOO happy! And we are so happy too to not be looking at measuring the rest of his life in months instead of years.

Yeah, networking works.

 

[Gaby]

I'm glad to hear he is doing better! Speedy recovery for Sebastian and all the doggies. I'll bet this mistake is not going to happen again!

 

[Jacques]

I'm glad to hear he is doing better! Speedy recovery for Sebastian and all the doggies. I'll bet this mistake is not going to happen again!

Ditto and big hugs for all of them.

 

[Laura]

I'm glad to hear he is doing better! Speedy recovery for Sebastian and all the doggies. I'll bet this mistake is not going to happen again!

Lordy, I hope not. Poor Bashy and all of us in a terrible state contemplating the possibility of his loss. Yes, we know we have to deal with it one day, but not yet, please.

 

[Meg]

I am glad Sebastian is doing better. Speedy recovery to them all and y'all too.

 

[loreta]

Thanks for this thread. And what an emotional one. Uf. I am very happy that Sebastian is recovering fast and well.

 

[Z...]

It might be a good idea to take stools to the vet for worm eggs screening instead of routinely giving medication, in my experience healthy and well fed adult dogs rarely suffer from worms, and if you must Drontal Plus (Bayer) is the safest option for your dogs.