Help for my wife
- Thread starter mocachapeau
- Start date
mocachapeau
Dagobah Resident
aleana said:
Thanks Aleana. Your experience gave me something very helpful to recount to my wife to help her to better see the link between her ailments and the gluten and dairy. I've spoken to her about the effects of these things but a hands-on experience like yours is something she is more apt to pay attention to.
Jason (ocean59) said:
This part is a little unclear for me. Specifically, what do her 'other meals' consist of? In which regard does she desire to 'do more' and why?
[/quote]
Her other meals consist of whatever she wants to eat. If she chooses not to have bacon and eggs in the morning she might eat toast with Nutella, or peanut butter, or jam. She might not fix a lunch for work so she might eat at the cafeteria, or she might make a sandwich and bring it along. But I have taken over the suppers, almost entirely, by putting the crock pot to use while we are at work.
When I say that she wants to "do more", I mean she has expressed a desire to make more effort in regulating what she eats. Why? It's usually always related to her weight when she talks about diet changes, but I'm hoping that she is paying more attention to the way she feels now. I know that seeing the link between her pains and her stress has got her thinking a bit more about all of it and I hope she might begin to see that the info I share with her has its merits.
Mod edit: fixed quotes
stellar
The Living Force
I also think along these lines. If your wife feels she just wants to cut all contact with this nasty piece of work, she should be free to do so. It sounds like enough of her energy has been depleted already and the univerese may be giving her this opportunity to transfer elswhere without further stress. Just my take on it.anart said:
mocachapeau
Dagobah Resident
I thought I would give a little update on this situation.
When I started this thread, my wife had already lodged an official complaint about this troubled woman with the hospital administration. After the doctor pulled my wife off work to get her out of the situation, she applied for the position in the other department, and got it. But she also felt very strongly about following through with her complaint, so she did. And she made it perfectly clear that she would like to keep her position if she could, but would not return to the department as long as this woman was working there. Because she had been put on sick leave for nearly 2 months, and she had a 21 day trial period for the new position following her time off, there was a chance that the administration might arrive at a decision about the situation before she had officially given up her original job. But the union rep made it pretty clear that it is usually the accused that wins in these situations, and that it is extremely rare that anyone actually gets fired.
I took all of your comments very seriously, and concentrated solely on supporting my wife, who was pretty stressed through it all. The main thing I would say to her when she was worried was that, since she had already landed the position in the other department, it was already assured that she would never have to work with this woman again. So whatever comes of the inquiry cannot affect her in a negative way. Also, she would never have to see her throughout the inquiry. It helped.
When the administration heard of the nature of the complaint - harassment - and then discovered the large number of complaints in this woman's file, from many different employees, they decided to look into it immediately. They spoke to my wife three times about it, interviewed a number of witnesses and then spoke with the woman in question.
My wife went in today to hear the results of the inquiry.
The inquiry addressed 15 of my wife's complaints, some regarding specific incidents, others regarding recurrent behaviour. My wife was proven to be right on all 15 counts because they were all confirmed by, not only the witnesses, but - get this - the woman in question, herself. She didn't even try to lie or deny any of it. At the end of the report on the 15 complaints there was a little section entitled "Other Important Factors". It stated that the woman in question confirmed that my wife had never, ever treated her with any form of disrespect. It also stated that she had made it quite clear in her interview that she had always, and would always, continue to treat my wife in the same disrespectful manner!!
What the union rep said was that she truly believed that everything she had put my wife through was completely normal and understandable behaviour, and that she was quite confident that she would be able to make this perfectly clear to the people conducting the inquiry. Unfortunately for her, what it made perfectly clear to everyone involved was that she had a major screw loose.
Although we don't know whether she is going to be fired from the hospital (but it looks like she will be), we do know that my wife has her old job back and that the woman in question will never work in the department again.
Strangely, after all of this, my wife and I both had the same thought: we both felt kind of bad that she might loose her job. My wife said she actually felt a little guilty. I tried to make her feel better by reminding her that no one was to blame but the woman, herself. She had treated many people this way for years, that it was surely going to catch up with her some day, and today was that day.
Anyway, my wife was exhausted from a very tense day, but started to wind down in the evening. We're both just happy that it's over.
When I started this thread, my wife had already lodged an official complaint about this troubled woman with the hospital administration. After the doctor pulled my wife off work to get her out of the situation, she applied for the position in the other department, and got it. But she also felt very strongly about following through with her complaint, so she did. And she made it perfectly clear that she would like to keep her position if she could, but would not return to the department as long as this woman was working there. Because she had been put on sick leave for nearly 2 months, and she had a 21 day trial period for the new position following her time off, there was a chance that the administration might arrive at a decision about the situation before she had officially given up her original job. But the union rep made it pretty clear that it is usually the accused that wins in these situations, and that it is extremely rare that anyone actually gets fired.
I took all of your comments very seriously, and concentrated solely on supporting my wife, who was pretty stressed through it all. The main thing I would say to her when she was worried was that, since she had already landed the position in the other department, it was already assured that she would never have to work with this woman again. So whatever comes of the inquiry cannot affect her in a negative way. Also, she would never have to see her throughout the inquiry. It helped.
When the administration heard of the nature of the complaint - harassment - and then discovered the large number of complaints in this woman's file, from many different employees, they decided to look into it immediately. They spoke to my wife three times about it, interviewed a number of witnesses and then spoke with the woman in question.
My wife went in today to hear the results of the inquiry.
The inquiry addressed 15 of my wife's complaints, some regarding specific incidents, others regarding recurrent behaviour. My wife was proven to be right on all 15 counts because they were all confirmed by, not only the witnesses, but - get this - the woman in question, herself. She didn't even try to lie or deny any of it. At the end of the report on the 15 complaints there was a little section entitled "Other Important Factors". It stated that the woman in question confirmed that my wife had never, ever treated her with any form of disrespect. It also stated that she had made it quite clear in her interview that she had always, and would always, continue to treat my wife in the same disrespectful manner!!
What the union rep said was that she truly believed that everything she had put my wife through was completely normal and understandable behaviour, and that she was quite confident that she would be able to make this perfectly clear to the people conducting the inquiry. Unfortunately for her, what it made perfectly clear to everyone involved was that she had a major screw loose.
Although we don't know whether she is going to be fired from the hospital (but it looks like she will be), we do know that my wife has her old job back and that the woman in question will never work in the department again.
Strangely, after all of this, my wife and I both had the same thought: we both felt kind of bad that she might loose her job. My wife said she actually felt a little guilty. I tried to make her feel better by reminding her that no one was to blame but the woman, herself. She had treated many people this way for years, that it was surely going to catch up with her some day, and today was that day.
Anyway, my wife was exhausted from a very tense day, but started to wind down in the evening. We're both just happy that it's over.
clerck de bonk
Dagobah Resident
May I salute You :)
Taking this to account:
and still, the result is still this:
:D :D :D I'm doing the Wave over here (for You)
But!
Taking this to account:
mocachapeau said:
and still, the result is still this:
mocachapeau said:
:D :D :D I'm doing the Wave over here (for You)
But!
DONT, go there! NO pity. You did what was right! Empathy when needed yes. But pity, never!mocachapeau said:
Please, stay vigilant!mocachapeau said:
mocachapeau
Dagobah Resident
Hi everyone.
I have to share this with you, hard though it may be. I'm not sure where to start so I'll start by addressing something Jason wrote.
I'm not entirely sure if my interpretation of this post is the same as your intent, but I had a few thoughts about it as I was reading it again.
It would appear from the language I used that I am trying to forcibly change her diet, or trying to control it. I don't think that accurately describes what I've been doing, but the language tells me that it IS the way I've been thinking about it.
There are two main factors involved: her health and our food budget. First, I know how much the diet changes will help her with most, if not all, her health problems. And second, with our budget, if I try to eat one way while the rest of the family eats another, well, we wouldn't be able to afford it. That means that either the changes to my own diet are very limited and thus not very effective, or everyone has to eat what I'm eating. Obviously, I can't approach the issue in such a controlling way, but I admit that I do find myself thinking about it in those terms. But what I've been doing doesn't really reflect that way of thinking. That is more of an internal wrestling match I've been having, unfortunately.
The thing is, when my wife and I get home from work neither one of us feels like preparing a meal. We're both tired and would like to relax, and we just don't have a lot of time. So the activity ends up being an exhausting, mad dash instead of something relaxing and creative. One of us ends up doing it, and the other is just happy they don't have to deal with it, particularly my wife because she usually wants to take a nap when she gets home (I think the topic of this thread partially explains why, pretty well). Neither of us care what is prepared, we are just grateful that the other prepared it, and we're happy with whatever it is. That is a dynamic that has always existed in this household, at least until recently - now I care about what I eat.
My wife really likes the idea of changing our diet but she doesn't feel like actively doing it. She wants a lot of things to change but she pretty much wants it done for her. She also doesn't like food shopping. All of this I attribute to a kind of depressive state she seems to be in, and has been for quite some time, even before the nasty lady at work entered her life. I am not making these statements to be down on her, I am just pointing out the way it is. And so you might be able to see how I saw a solution to all of this.
I decided to take over all the food shopping and the meal preparations, particularly breakfast and supper. If she is just happy she doesn't have to shop or prepare the supper, and she doesn't really care what the supper is, then why don't I just take over those jobs and prepare whatever I want? I relieve her of chores she doesn't want to do, and if I use the crockpot then all I have to do when I get home is steam some veggies and - voila - supper is ready and everyone is happy. I prepare bacon and eggs for myself in the mornings, and if anyone else wants some I prepare it for them, too. And if they don't want to eat that, there is still bread and cereal and milk in the house if they want to take that route.
I do share as much of the dietary information I have been getting from SOTT as I can, with the hopes that my wife will begin to see the importance of it all, the effects that our diet has on all of our organs and systems, not just our weight. She has been listening more and more, and I am also respecting her free will to eat whatever she wants.
But I do see that the way I am thinking about it indicates a desire to control not just my own diet, but hers. And that the main reason is so I can control my own, so that would be narcissistic, I think. Control. That leads me to the next subject, or rather back to an earlier one.
After my wife made her official complaint about the woman at work, she began making a list of all the things she had been doing to her. Often I was present and she would relate these things to me. As the list got longer and longer, I began to notice something that gave me a sick feeling in my stomach - the pattern of this woman's behaviour was reminding me of myself. Well, myself 8 years ago and beyond. She was constantly on my wife's case about something, making her feel like she was behaving wrongly in everything she did. Although the subject matter was different, and the intent on the surface was different, the pattern was the same.
After sqirming in my skin about it for a few days, I asked my wife whether I behaved this way with her, or made her feel the same way. She said no, absolutely not. I used to, but not any more. That was good to know, because changing my behaviour toward her and the kids has been my main priority since the day I began to wake up. But as I once wrote in another thread somewhere, I sometimes get the feeling that I have succeeded in altering the more obvious parts of my narcissism but that there must be some more subtle things I am not aware of that still need my attention.
A couple of weeks ago, while I was painting the apartment, my wife was reminding me throughout the day that I had to write a check out to her sister, who was at our place that day. When I got a moment I sat down, wrote out the check and handed it to her. She said, oh, no, the check has to be made out to her husband. So in a wonderfully dramatic fashion I threw the pen in the air, letting it fall on the table, demonstrating my exasperation with her. She says, why did you do that? Is that really necessary? I say, but you've told me 5 times today to write the check to your sister when all the time it wasn't for her, at all? Grumble, grumble. But no anger or yelling or anything like that.
Following Laura's suggestion, I began reading Nasty People. When I got into it a bit I started describing to my wife the invalidator archetype and the typical behaviour it causes people to exhibit when they let it take over. I recognized some of my past behaviour in there, too. She says, oh, like throwing your pen in the air? I say, oh honey, you know I... ... ... yes. Exactly like that. And there it was. At least one part of my narcissistic behaviour that I was still doing but was unaware of. Well now I am fully aware of it, and learning that the whole point of it all is to control my wife just makes me more sick inside. What the hell is the matter with me?
I've been reading Nasty Women, too. That one has led me to question all my behaviour and intentions toward my wife. It has also led me to possibly identify things about her, but I no longer trust my judgement when it comes to that because what I am identifying may be simply a warped view of things. Like maybe I am seeing her in that book because it enables me to hide more crud within myself. It's probably a mixture of both, but I refuse to examine anything more about her, certainly not until I am on more solid ground when it comes to understanding ME. I'm more screwed up than I thought, and here I thought I was getting a handle on things. Yeah, right!
I have just placed an order for Nasty Men. I have a funny feeling I might be finding myself in there, too, and that it's not going to be a walk in the park.
I have to share this with you, hard though it may be. I'm not sure where to start so I'll start by addressing something Jason wrote.
Jason (ocean59) said:
I'm not entirely sure if my interpretation of this post is the same as your intent, but I had a few thoughts about it as I was reading it again.
It would appear from the language I used that I am trying to forcibly change her diet, or trying to control it. I don't think that accurately describes what I've been doing, but the language tells me that it IS the way I've been thinking about it.
There are two main factors involved: her health and our food budget. First, I know how much the diet changes will help her with most, if not all, her health problems. And second, with our budget, if I try to eat one way while the rest of the family eats another, well, we wouldn't be able to afford it. That means that either the changes to my own diet are very limited and thus not very effective, or everyone has to eat what I'm eating. Obviously, I can't approach the issue in such a controlling way, but I admit that I do find myself thinking about it in those terms. But what I've been doing doesn't really reflect that way of thinking. That is more of an internal wrestling match I've been having, unfortunately.
The thing is, when my wife and I get home from work neither one of us feels like preparing a meal. We're both tired and would like to relax, and we just don't have a lot of time. So the activity ends up being an exhausting, mad dash instead of something relaxing and creative. One of us ends up doing it, and the other is just happy they don't have to deal with it, particularly my wife because she usually wants to take a nap when she gets home (I think the topic of this thread partially explains why, pretty well). Neither of us care what is prepared, we are just grateful that the other prepared it, and we're happy with whatever it is. That is a dynamic that has always existed in this household, at least until recently - now I care about what I eat.
My wife really likes the idea of changing our diet but she doesn't feel like actively doing it. She wants a lot of things to change but she pretty much wants it done for her. She also doesn't like food shopping. All of this I attribute to a kind of depressive state she seems to be in, and has been for quite some time, even before the nasty lady at work entered her life. I am not making these statements to be down on her, I am just pointing out the way it is. And so you might be able to see how I saw a solution to all of this.
I decided to take over all the food shopping and the meal preparations, particularly breakfast and supper. If she is just happy she doesn't have to shop or prepare the supper, and she doesn't really care what the supper is, then why don't I just take over those jobs and prepare whatever I want? I relieve her of chores she doesn't want to do, and if I use the crockpot then all I have to do when I get home is steam some veggies and - voila - supper is ready and everyone is happy. I prepare bacon and eggs for myself in the mornings, and if anyone else wants some I prepare it for them, too. And if they don't want to eat that, there is still bread and cereal and milk in the house if they want to take that route.
I do share as much of the dietary information I have been getting from SOTT as I can, with the hopes that my wife will begin to see the importance of it all, the effects that our diet has on all of our organs and systems, not just our weight. She has been listening more and more, and I am also respecting her free will to eat whatever she wants.
But I do see that the way I am thinking about it indicates a desire to control not just my own diet, but hers. And that the main reason is so I can control my own, so that would be narcissistic, I think. Control. That leads me to the next subject, or rather back to an earlier one.
After my wife made her official complaint about the woman at work, she began making a list of all the things she had been doing to her. Often I was present and she would relate these things to me. As the list got longer and longer, I began to notice something that gave me a sick feeling in my stomach - the pattern of this woman's behaviour was reminding me of myself. Well, myself 8 years ago and beyond. She was constantly on my wife's case about something, making her feel like she was behaving wrongly in everything she did. Although the subject matter was different, and the intent on the surface was different, the pattern was the same.
After sqirming in my skin about it for a few days, I asked my wife whether I behaved this way with her, or made her feel the same way. She said no, absolutely not. I used to, but not any more. That was good to know, because changing my behaviour toward her and the kids has been my main priority since the day I began to wake up. But as I once wrote in another thread somewhere, I sometimes get the feeling that I have succeeded in altering the more obvious parts of my narcissism but that there must be some more subtle things I am not aware of that still need my attention.
A couple of weeks ago, while I was painting the apartment, my wife was reminding me throughout the day that I had to write a check out to her sister, who was at our place that day. When I got a moment I sat down, wrote out the check and handed it to her. She said, oh, no, the check has to be made out to her husband. So in a wonderfully dramatic fashion I threw the pen in the air, letting it fall on the table, demonstrating my exasperation with her. She says, why did you do that? Is that really necessary? I say, but you've told me 5 times today to write the check to your sister when all the time it wasn't for her, at all? Grumble, grumble. But no anger or yelling or anything like that.
Following Laura's suggestion, I began reading Nasty People. When I got into it a bit I started describing to my wife the invalidator archetype and the typical behaviour it causes people to exhibit when they let it take over. I recognized some of my past behaviour in there, too. She says, oh, like throwing your pen in the air? I say, oh honey, you know I... ... ... yes. Exactly like that. And there it was. At least one part of my narcissistic behaviour that I was still doing but was unaware of. Well now I am fully aware of it, and learning that the whole point of it all is to control my wife just makes me more sick inside. What the hell is the matter with me?
I've been reading Nasty Women, too. That one has led me to question all my behaviour and intentions toward my wife. It has also led me to possibly identify things about her, but I no longer trust my judgement when it comes to that because what I am identifying may be simply a warped view of things. Like maybe I am seeing her in that book because it enables me to hide more crud within myself. It's probably a mixture of both, but I refuse to examine anything more about her, certainly not until I am on more solid ground when it comes to understanding ME. I'm more screwed up than I thought, and here I thought I was getting a handle on things. Yeah, right!
I have just placed an order for Nasty Men. I have a funny feeling I might be finding myself in there, too, and that it's not going to be a walk in the park.
Mocachapeau,
Welcome to the Work! :) It is a never-ending process. You've heard the term, "peeling an onion"? Well, that is what you are doing, and what all of us are doing with the Work. As you know, there are many i's and many programs. We can't find them all in the first shot. Nor the second or third or.... And the big, easy ones to spot are the ones we find first. The trickier, harder ones to spot take longer. But those are usually even worse because they can be so tricky.
But the fact that you are finding them says that you are still doing the Work. And that's a good thing. If you had found one or two programs and then said, "Well, that's it, I'm done!" Then that would be very unfortunate for you. But you are still looking, still finding them and still ready to get them under control. Good for you!
There is nothing to feel bad about finding these programs. I'm sure you'll find many more. ;) Just as we all are.
Hang in there.
Welcome to the Work! :) It is a never-ending process. You've heard the term, "peeling an onion"? Well, that is what you are doing, and what all of us are doing with the Work. As you know, there are many i's and many programs. We can't find them all in the first shot. Nor the second or third or.... And the big, easy ones to spot are the ones we find first. The trickier, harder ones to spot take longer. But those are usually even worse because they can be so tricky.
But the fact that you are finding them says that you are still doing the Work. And that's a good thing. If you had found one or two programs and then said, "Well, that's it, I'm done!" Then that would be very unfortunate for you. But you are still looking, still finding them and still ready to get them under control. Good for you!
There is nothing to feel bad about finding these programs. I'm sure you'll find many more. ;) Just as we all are.
Hang in there.
clerck de bonk
Dagobah Resident
Just wanted to second Nienna Eluch's post and say "steady as she goes"* ;)
* Steer as needed to continue current heading
* Steer as needed to continue current heading
mocachapeau
Dagobah Resident
Thank you Nienna and Clerck, for your encouragement.
I guess you all know how it feels when we discover another ugly program - pretty crappy. On the other hand, I've already been able to catch it before it happens a couple of times, simply because I'm so hyper-conscious of it at the moment. I will try to remain that way for the rest of my days because I hate it SO much. I realised that the key is not to take things personally.
Without going into detail, I can say that I have learned a lot from these two little books, particularly about relationships in general, about how and why we behave the way we do. Because of certain things that were pointed out, I was reminded of how much I miss just having fun with my wife. As a result, I have asked my wife out on a date this weekend!! Other than the occasional movie, we haven't done anything like that in a long time. We are both looking forward to spending time together enjoying each others company, doing something other than running a family and a household.
While I am here I would like to address this:
My wife and I had the same thought - this might not be over. Who knows what this woman might do. So we are being vigilant, and we spoke to the kids about it, as well. They know who this woman is, and what she looks like, so we thought it would be a good idea for them to be conscious of keeping there eyes open and avoiding her if she should turn up anywhere in their vicinity.
It turns out that the "nasty woman" was given a two month suspension without pay, and she must apply to a different department upon her return. I think this works out pretty well because she has been warned that if she should approach my wife, in any way whatsoever, she will be fired. So there is that consequence hanging over her, and she can't afford to lose her job. If she had been fired right away there would probably have been more chance of her trying to get back at my wife. But I understand we must still remain vigilant.
I guess you all know how it feels when we discover another ugly program - pretty crappy. On the other hand, I've already been able to catch it before it happens a couple of times, simply because I'm so hyper-conscious of it at the moment. I will try to remain that way for the rest of my days because I hate it SO much. I realised that the key is not to take things personally.
Without going into detail, I can say that I have learned a lot from these two little books, particularly about relationships in general, about how and why we behave the way we do. Because of certain things that were pointed out, I was reminded of how much I miss just having fun with my wife. As a result, I have asked my wife out on a date this weekend!! Other than the occasional movie, we haven't done anything like that in a long time. We are both looking forward to spending time together enjoying each others company, doing something other than running a family and a household.
While I am here I would like to address this:
clerck de bonk said:
My wife and I had the same thought - this might not be over. Who knows what this woman might do. So we are being vigilant, and we spoke to the kids about it, as well. They know who this woman is, and what she looks like, so we thought it would be a good idea for them to be conscious of keeping there eyes open and avoiding her if she should turn up anywhere in their vicinity.
It turns out that the "nasty woman" was given a two month suspension without pay, and she must apply to a different department upon her return. I think this works out pretty well because she has been warned that if she should approach my wife, in any way whatsoever, she will be fired. So there is that consequence hanging over her, and she can't afford to lose her job. If she had been fired right away there would probably have been more chance of her trying to get back at my wife. But I understand we must still remain vigilant.
mocachapeau
Dagobah Resident
This is a much needed update on all of this.
While the nasty woman in question was serving her two-month suspension she was allowed into the hospital once a week or so because of a medical treatment she is receiving in cardiology. So near the end of September, or early October, a colleague of my wife's overheard this woman talking to a number of staff members in the cafeteria. She was telling them that all the accusations against her were lies and that she had never done any of those things. Furthermore, she stated that she was going to be returning to the department, but on the night shift. It didn't take long before this got back to my wife, and my wife went immediately to her union rep, and then the administration.
The woman had signed papers admitting to everything, and acknowledging that the entire subject was confidential - she had no right to be discussing this at all. And my wife had been told that she had been barred from returning to the department. It turned out that certain union rules did not allow the administration to do so, not after having her lose her position AND suspending her. So it looked like she may be coming back. This caused a lot of other turmoil with the administration that caused a number of positions to be frozen around the hospital. This turn of events really rattled my wife.
As a result of her indiscretions, the woman was given an additional three months suspension, without pay, and was now officially barred from returning to the department. Apparently, her possible return to the department was another subject that she was not allowed to be discussing. She has also unleashed some kind of official inquiry into hospital confidentiality because her doctor, to whom she has also been telling her lies, brought her situation up at a medical committee meeting, asking doctors and administration what they thought of her "wrongful" suspension. The doctor was apparently unaware of the real reason she had been suspended.
All of this made its way back to my wife, who began to get somewhat upset about it. Not so much upset as scared. Even though all the subsequent discipline handed out to this woman was entirely her own doing, my wife couldn't help thinking that she was going to blame HER for it all. And this led her to imagining all sorts of frightening scenarios of how she might get back at her. The worst being one where this woman comes up to her somewhere and throws acid in her face.
Throughout all of this my wife has been seeing a psychologist, one that the hospital has been paying for because of the harassment she was subjected to at work. Since the beginning of November she has been taken off work by her doctor because of being in a state of major depression. Unfortunately, the free sessions will be running out soon - I think she has only one left. So I am going to fix our budget to somehow come up with the money for her to continue on with the same therapist. It's the most important thing for her at the moment.
Upsetting as this all is, some good has come from it. I have been talking to my wife for a number of years about the fact that her behaviour might be interpreted by a therapist as being a sign of depression, and now she really knows that it is the case. She would always deny the possibility, before. This didn't all start because of the woman at work, she was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
According to her therapy sessions, she began feeling this way around 2005 when she went through 5 operations in 2 and a half years. She had her first child at 18 and has been raising kids - taking care of everyone, including me for a number of years - ever since. And that dynamic even stretches back to her childhood and adolescence when she and her sisters were left alone a lot to fend for each other while her mother was at work. When she got sick back in 2005, I completely relieved her of all her responsibilities so she could recover. When that happened, she just let go of it all, and she was never able to come back from it because she was exhausted - physically, and mentally. This really explains a heck of a lot, and answers all the questions I've been asking for the past 4 or 5 years.
What the therapist told her was that she needed to learn to take care of HERSELF for a change, something she has never been able to do. I told her that I think that's the best advice she could get, and that she can take all the time she needs to figure out what that means for her. That she should keep seeing her therapist for as long as she wants, and not concern herself with the household responsibilities. She's been doing a lot of painting.
Another positive thing from her therapy has been a slight realization that her childhood home life was not necessarily the way she remembered it. Particularly, that the perfect image she has of her mother is not quite accurate. She's starting to understand that, being married to a narcissist, her mother did what she felt she had to do to survive. And that means that her decisions were not always made with the best interest of the kids in mind. Like everyone, my wife is finding it tough to accept this, but she's seeing it, and that's a good thing. She's already making a little progress, and that's very encouraging.
We will be leaving for my parents' place on Friday to spend the holidays with them. We're all looking forward to it because we haven't spent Christmas with them in about 7 years. I think it will do my wife some good. Christmas here with her family is a huge bash with about 40 people all dancing and partying into the night. Christmas at my folks' place is a rather quiet affair with only twelve of us having supper, opening presents together and then going to bed - much more relaxing. And my mom also informed me that, unbeknownst to me, my brother has gone gluten-free. So she's already taking our diets into consideration while stocking the fridge and preparing the big meal. I thought that was pretty cool.
If things turn out the way the C's have said they will in the next couple of years, this could very well be my last Christmas with my family back home. I'm trying not to look at that as a sad thing, rather that this will be a very special visit. A large helping of external consideration is going to be on the menu for me, in order to make it so.
While the nasty woman in question was serving her two-month suspension she was allowed into the hospital once a week or so because of a medical treatment she is receiving in cardiology. So near the end of September, or early October, a colleague of my wife's overheard this woman talking to a number of staff members in the cafeteria. She was telling them that all the accusations against her were lies and that she had never done any of those things. Furthermore, she stated that she was going to be returning to the department, but on the night shift. It didn't take long before this got back to my wife, and my wife went immediately to her union rep, and then the administration.
The woman had signed papers admitting to everything, and acknowledging that the entire subject was confidential - she had no right to be discussing this at all. And my wife had been told that she had been barred from returning to the department. It turned out that certain union rules did not allow the administration to do so, not after having her lose her position AND suspending her. So it looked like she may be coming back. This caused a lot of other turmoil with the administration that caused a number of positions to be frozen around the hospital. This turn of events really rattled my wife.
As a result of her indiscretions, the woman was given an additional three months suspension, without pay, and was now officially barred from returning to the department. Apparently, her possible return to the department was another subject that she was not allowed to be discussing. She has also unleashed some kind of official inquiry into hospital confidentiality because her doctor, to whom she has also been telling her lies, brought her situation up at a medical committee meeting, asking doctors and administration what they thought of her "wrongful" suspension. The doctor was apparently unaware of the real reason she had been suspended.
All of this made its way back to my wife, who began to get somewhat upset about it. Not so much upset as scared. Even though all the subsequent discipline handed out to this woman was entirely her own doing, my wife couldn't help thinking that she was going to blame HER for it all. And this led her to imagining all sorts of frightening scenarios of how she might get back at her. The worst being one where this woman comes up to her somewhere and throws acid in her face.
Throughout all of this my wife has been seeing a psychologist, one that the hospital has been paying for because of the harassment she was subjected to at work. Since the beginning of November she has been taken off work by her doctor because of being in a state of major depression. Unfortunately, the free sessions will be running out soon - I think she has only one left. So I am going to fix our budget to somehow come up with the money for her to continue on with the same therapist. It's the most important thing for her at the moment.
Upsetting as this all is, some good has come from it. I have been talking to my wife for a number of years about the fact that her behaviour might be interpreted by a therapist as being a sign of depression, and now she really knows that it is the case. She would always deny the possibility, before. This didn't all start because of the woman at work, she was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
According to her therapy sessions, she began feeling this way around 2005 when she went through 5 operations in 2 and a half years. She had her first child at 18 and has been raising kids - taking care of everyone, including me for a number of years - ever since. And that dynamic even stretches back to her childhood and adolescence when she and her sisters were left alone a lot to fend for each other while her mother was at work. When she got sick back in 2005, I completely relieved her of all her responsibilities so she could recover. When that happened, she just let go of it all, and she was never able to come back from it because she was exhausted - physically, and mentally. This really explains a heck of a lot, and answers all the questions I've been asking for the past 4 or 5 years.
What the therapist told her was that she needed to learn to take care of HERSELF for a change, something she has never been able to do. I told her that I think that's the best advice she could get, and that she can take all the time she needs to figure out what that means for her. That she should keep seeing her therapist for as long as she wants, and not concern herself with the household responsibilities. She's been doing a lot of painting.
Another positive thing from her therapy has been a slight realization that her childhood home life was not necessarily the way she remembered it. Particularly, that the perfect image she has of her mother is not quite accurate. She's starting to understand that, being married to a narcissist, her mother did what she felt she had to do to survive. And that means that her decisions were not always made with the best interest of the kids in mind. Like everyone, my wife is finding it tough to accept this, but she's seeing it, and that's a good thing. She's already making a little progress, and that's very encouraging.
We will be leaving for my parents' place on Friday to spend the holidays with them. We're all looking forward to it because we haven't spent Christmas with them in about 7 years. I think it will do my wife some good. Christmas here with her family is a huge bash with about 40 people all dancing and partying into the night. Christmas at my folks' place is a rather quiet affair with only twelve of us having supper, opening presents together and then going to bed - much more relaxing. And my mom also informed me that, unbeknownst to me, my brother has gone gluten-free. So she's already taking our diets into consideration while stocking the fridge and preparing the big meal. I thought that was pretty cool.
If things turn out the way the C's have said they will in the next couple of years, this could very well be my last Christmas with my family back home. I'm trying not to look at that as a sad thing, rather that this will be a very special visit. A large helping of external consideration is going to be on the menu for me, in order to make it so.
Thanks for the update, mocachapeau. I'm sorry to hear about the troubles, but glad to hear some positive things are developing from them. Enjoy your holiday visit to your parents and best of luck with the external consideration. :)
mocachapeau
Dagobah Resident
Well it’s been nearly a year since my last post to this thread so I thought it might be time for an update. Apologies in advance for the long post.
By sometime in February my wife had stopped seeing her psychologist and had quit going to the gym. She said that she felt much better about the situation at work, particularly since she had no contact with the nutty woman, whatsoever. She stopped working out because she was finding it hard to sustain the effort.
I didn’t see this as a good sign because she hadn’t made much headway with either of those activities, and I was quite sure they were exactly what she needed. But I wasn’t about to force her, or tell her what I thought she should do. To be honest, I really didn’t know WHAT to do, so I decided to just go on doing what I had been doing – taking care of all the family and household responsibilities for as long as she needed. That is how things have remained.
Admittedly, I have found it very tiring and frustrating. Often enough, I have found myself bitching inside my head about many things that have been driving me nuts, like the fact that I can never have the time I need to read or write, and that she would never lift a finger to help with anything. But whenever I caught myself doing that, I would stop and remind myself of why I was doing all this – because my wife needed time to heal. As well, it was exactly what I told her I would do. Once I reminded myself of these things the frustration, or anger, would subside and I would continue on peacefully. It was a battle with my predator, I guess, but I believe I came out on top…eventually.
Well, something interesting happened about a month ago. We were driving home from work and I told her I had nearly left early that day because I wasn’t feeling well, and I really needed some rest. So she offered to make supper and drive our daughter to the orthodontist so I could get some sleep.
When we got in the house ten minutes later, she announced that she was going to go lie down for a nap and THEN get going on the supper. I knew there would not be enough time for her to do that, make supper and get my daughter to her appointment on time, so when she went to bed I just started making supper. When I went in to wake her up, she was clearly out of it, and I knew it would be a struggle to get her up, so I just took my daughter to her appointment myself.
When I got back, she asked me why I hadn’t woken her up. I told her why and then I went to bed.
The next evening she came to me and wanted to talk. To paraphrase, and translate loosely, she said that she had come to realise, for the first time, that she was capable of treating people badly, or hurting them, in ways that she had never been aware of before. She said that the previous evening, after she had asked why I hadn’t woken her up, she felt really cheap. She asked me if I could understand why she felt that way. So I said yes, because you had, more or less, tried to blame me for the fact that you had not done what you said you were going to do. “Oh my God”, she said, “That makes it even worse. I knew I was making an excuse, but I hadn’t thought about it like that!” I didn’t think what she had done was all that horrible, and I hadn’t expressed it as if it was, but she saw it that way and it led her to seeing a heck of a lot more.
So that’s how the conversation started, and it continued, on and off, for three days. It was a huge breakthrough for her, seeing a part of herself objectively for the first time, and it was clearly quite overwhelming. All kinds of memories were coming to her – things she had said or done to people, things I had tried to point out to her in the past, and how she would never listen, to me or anyone else, because she refused to believe anything “bad” about herself. She didn’t like what she was seeing, but she wasn’t running from it anymore, or trying to hide from it.
At one point she told me that this was all happening because of me, because of all the things I’d talked about to her. But I told her this had nothing to do with me. Maybe she was now understanding some of the things I had said in the past, but her breakthrough was all her own. In fact, I said, if I were going to take credit for anything about this, it would only be that I gave her the time and space she needed to live through what she was living, without any interference from me.
And that’s when I realised I had just learned something myself – something HUGE – concerning the control issues I mentioned in an earlier post. I now understand to what extent I need to let go of other people’s problems and let them figure them out for themselves. And if I don’t, I may be actively preventing them from learning from their own experience. It is a breach of free will, and a lack of trust and confidence, not to let them have that. All the while I felt like I wasn’t “doing” anything to help, when in actual fact I was doing exactly what was needed in the situation: nothing. I now understand my own father at a much deeper level - he always had to be fixing everybody. And this, in turn, has been helping me with my kids, too.
I also learned about what it means to give a person the emotional support they need. People talk about being there to give emotional support, and sometimes I’ve wondered just what that means. I felt that what I was doing was giving her more of a physical or material support, because I was relieving her of all the physical/material responsibilities of our life. But that is what was giving the emotional support. She was able to leave all that aside, for as long as she needed, without having to feel guilty, or neglectful. That was emotional support.
I didn’t really understand the significance of what I was doing until all this came about. But now I do, no matter how I got here.
Anyway, my wife decided to get back to her therapy sessions because she figured out the reason she had stopped. She thought it was just going to be about dealing with the experience of the abusive woman at work. But when the therapist got her to start examining her past, her parents, her siblings, she got scared and ran. She knows now that therapy was threatening the image she had created of herself. Now she’s not afraid to face it – she wants to face it, and learn.
I am so happy for her!! And now I understand better how to continue supporting her through her process. I just have to do whatever I can, that will help to let her live it, herself.
By sometime in February my wife had stopped seeing her psychologist and had quit going to the gym. She said that she felt much better about the situation at work, particularly since she had no contact with the nutty woman, whatsoever. She stopped working out because she was finding it hard to sustain the effort.
I didn’t see this as a good sign because she hadn’t made much headway with either of those activities, and I was quite sure they were exactly what she needed. But I wasn’t about to force her, or tell her what I thought she should do. To be honest, I really didn’t know WHAT to do, so I decided to just go on doing what I had been doing – taking care of all the family and household responsibilities for as long as she needed. That is how things have remained.
Admittedly, I have found it very tiring and frustrating. Often enough, I have found myself bitching inside my head about many things that have been driving me nuts, like the fact that I can never have the time I need to read or write, and that she would never lift a finger to help with anything. But whenever I caught myself doing that, I would stop and remind myself of why I was doing all this – because my wife needed time to heal. As well, it was exactly what I told her I would do. Once I reminded myself of these things the frustration, or anger, would subside and I would continue on peacefully. It was a battle with my predator, I guess, but I believe I came out on top…eventually.
Well, something interesting happened about a month ago. We were driving home from work and I told her I had nearly left early that day because I wasn’t feeling well, and I really needed some rest. So she offered to make supper and drive our daughter to the orthodontist so I could get some sleep.
When we got in the house ten minutes later, she announced that she was going to go lie down for a nap and THEN get going on the supper. I knew there would not be enough time for her to do that, make supper and get my daughter to her appointment on time, so when she went to bed I just started making supper. When I went in to wake her up, she was clearly out of it, and I knew it would be a struggle to get her up, so I just took my daughter to her appointment myself.
When I got back, she asked me why I hadn’t woken her up. I told her why and then I went to bed.
The next evening she came to me and wanted to talk. To paraphrase, and translate loosely, she said that she had come to realise, for the first time, that she was capable of treating people badly, or hurting them, in ways that she had never been aware of before. She said that the previous evening, after she had asked why I hadn’t woken her up, she felt really cheap. She asked me if I could understand why she felt that way. So I said yes, because you had, more or less, tried to blame me for the fact that you had not done what you said you were going to do. “Oh my God”, she said, “That makes it even worse. I knew I was making an excuse, but I hadn’t thought about it like that!” I didn’t think what she had done was all that horrible, and I hadn’t expressed it as if it was, but she saw it that way and it led her to seeing a heck of a lot more.
So that’s how the conversation started, and it continued, on and off, for three days. It was a huge breakthrough for her, seeing a part of herself objectively for the first time, and it was clearly quite overwhelming. All kinds of memories were coming to her – things she had said or done to people, things I had tried to point out to her in the past, and how she would never listen, to me or anyone else, because she refused to believe anything “bad” about herself. She didn’t like what she was seeing, but she wasn’t running from it anymore, or trying to hide from it.
At one point she told me that this was all happening because of me, because of all the things I’d talked about to her. But I told her this had nothing to do with me. Maybe she was now understanding some of the things I had said in the past, but her breakthrough was all her own. In fact, I said, if I were going to take credit for anything about this, it would only be that I gave her the time and space she needed to live through what she was living, without any interference from me.
And that’s when I realised I had just learned something myself – something HUGE – concerning the control issues I mentioned in an earlier post. I now understand to what extent I need to let go of other people’s problems and let them figure them out for themselves. And if I don’t, I may be actively preventing them from learning from their own experience. It is a breach of free will, and a lack of trust and confidence, not to let them have that. All the while I felt like I wasn’t “doing” anything to help, when in actual fact I was doing exactly what was needed in the situation: nothing. I now understand my own father at a much deeper level - he always had to be fixing everybody. And this, in turn, has been helping me with my kids, too.
I also learned about what it means to give a person the emotional support they need. People talk about being there to give emotional support, and sometimes I’ve wondered just what that means. I felt that what I was doing was giving her more of a physical or material support, because I was relieving her of all the physical/material responsibilities of our life. But that is what was giving the emotional support. She was able to leave all that aside, for as long as she needed, without having to feel guilty, or neglectful. That was emotional support.
I didn’t really understand the significance of what I was doing until all this came about. But now I do, no matter how I got here.
Anyway, my wife decided to get back to her therapy sessions because she figured out the reason she had stopped. She thought it was just going to be about dealing with the experience of the abusive woman at work. But when the therapist got her to start examining her past, her parents, her siblings, she got scared and ran. She knows now that therapy was threatening the image she had created of herself. Now she’s not afraid to face it – she wants to face it, and learn.
I am so happy for her!! And now I understand better how to continue supporting her through her process. I just have to do whatever I can, that will help to let her live it, herself.
clerck de bonk
Dagobah Resident
:D I'm happy for You both!
The Journey continues.
The Journey continues.
truth seeker
The Living Force
Ditto that! Thanks so much for the update, mocachapeau.clerck de bonk said:
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