Mr. Premise
The Living Force
Re: \
I think your post summarized the issue really well, Seamas.
I think your post summarized the issue really well, Seamas.
"Helping:" STS or STO?
- Thread starter mamadrama
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PepperFritz
The Cosmic Force
Re: \
You certainly seem to have grasped the concepts very well, on an intellectual level. The trick is putting them into practice. With your tendency to want to "please" and and seek "approval", I would caution against trying to overhaul yourself all at once, or to expect "big changes", because it simply doesn't work that way. Set realistic goals, take baby steps, one day at a time. The important thing is to be consistent, to start building a daily practice of self-observation, knowing that over time you will become less and less mechanical in your responses, and more and more insightful into your own behaviour. Many of us have found it helpful to simply concentrate on observation to begin with, and not even think about changing behaviour. Sometimes it takes seeing the same behaviour repeated over and over and over again to really grasp the mechanical nature of it, and to explore the emotional issues behind it. Trying to effect change without understanding can only lead to frustration and disappointment. The technique of splitting yourself in two -- with one part of you performing the mechanical behaviour, and the other part objectively observing it as it happens -- can be a good approach.
No one is here to judge you. We're all in the same boat. The C's tell us over and over again that "Knowledge Protects", but emphasize that the intellectual grasp of Knowledge is not enough -- it must be APPLIED, in order to be effective. But putting pressure on yourself to "progress" and "succeed" will not help. Because it's a never-ending process, one that is never "done", or "accomplished". And, remember, the "mirroring" that we practice here as a group is not "criticism", or some sort of expression of dissatisfaction with you, it is simply a means to help each other see what we could not see if we were trying to do the Work in isolation.
Here there are two separate issues to be examined: The first is the necessity of respecting the free will of those around you, and not offering/imposing "help" where it has not been asked for; and seeing how the compulsion to impose your views on others is really more about serving your own "needs" than genuinely helping others. The second involves the issue of "Strategic Enclosure", which in a nutshell is about the necessity of disciplining yourself to "keep your own counsel" when pursuing the Work and esoteric knowledge.
The Cassiopedia entry on "Strategic Enclosure" provides Laura's explanation of the concept, but it is, admittedly, rather complex. The following description from "Mr.Premise" is much more to the point:
The concept is also discussed at length in the following threads:
Why the Secrecy?
What experiences have you had defending your views regarding 9/11?
Wishful thinking/Strategic enclosure
Marital conflict, children and the Work
Seamas said:
You certainly seem to have grasped the concepts very well, on an intellectual level. The trick is putting them into practice. With your tendency to want to "please" and and seek "approval", I would caution against trying to overhaul yourself all at once, or to expect "big changes", because it simply doesn't work that way. Set realistic goals, take baby steps, one day at a time. The important thing is to be consistent, to start building a daily practice of self-observation, knowing that over time you will become less and less mechanical in your responses, and more and more insightful into your own behaviour. Many of us have found it helpful to simply concentrate on observation to begin with, and not even think about changing behaviour. Sometimes it takes seeing the same behaviour repeated over and over and over again to really grasp the mechanical nature of it, and to explore the emotional issues behind it. Trying to effect change without understanding can only lead to frustration and disappointment. The technique of splitting yourself in two -- with one part of you performing the mechanical behaviour, and the other part objectively observing it as it happens -- can be a good approach.
Seamas said:
No one is here to judge you. We're all in the same boat. The C's tell us over and over again that "Knowledge Protects", but emphasize that the intellectual grasp of Knowledge is not enough -- it must be APPLIED, in order to be effective. But putting pressure on yourself to "progress" and "succeed" will not help. Because it's a never-ending process, one that is never "done", or "accomplished". And, remember, the "mirroring" that we practice here as a group is not "criticism", or some sort of expression of dissatisfaction with you, it is simply a means to help each other see what we could not see if we were trying to do the Work in isolation.
Seamas said:
Here there are two separate issues to be examined: The first is the necessity of respecting the free will of those around you, and not offering/imposing "help" where it has not been asked for; and seeing how the compulsion to impose your views on others is really more about serving your own "needs" than genuinely helping others. The second involves the issue of "Strategic Enclosure", which in a nutshell is about the necessity of disciplining yourself to "keep your own counsel" when pursuing the Work and esoteric knowledge.
The Cassiopedia entry on "Strategic Enclosure" provides Laura's explanation of the concept, but it is, admittedly, rather complex. The following description from "Mr.Premise" is much more to the point:
Mr.Premise said:
The concept is also discussed at length in the following threads:
Why the Secrecy?
What experiences have you had defending your views regarding 9/11?
Wishful thinking/Strategic enclosure
Marital conflict, children and the Work
Re: \
Thank you for your feedback. Imagine how boring life would be if we didn't have so much to do!
This is really good advice for me:
[quote author=PepperFritz]I would caution against trying to overhaul yourself all at once, or to expect "big changes", because it simply doesn't work that way. Set realistic goals, take baby steps, one day at a time. The important thing is to be consistent, to start building a daily practice of self-observation, knowing that over time you will become less and less mechanical in your responses, and more and more insightful into your own behaviour.[/quote]
This is a trap I have been prone to falling into for a long time. I have spent a great deal of time lamenting the sorry state of the world and indulging in feeling sad and depressed, daunted by the task that lies before me. Looking back on the last few years I see a series of attempts on my part to come at the problem of "how to change" from different angles, with different "fixes" (meditation, self-help programs, etc.) that I throw myself into with a fervor. After a short time I lose interest and even the project fades away. But I don't feel that way anymore. I have to catch myself from falling all of the time.
I appreciate this very much. I'm looking for a mirror. The issues that I'm writing about in these posts are issues that I have struggled with on my own and I have made some progress. But mostly I've been chasing my own tail, and I have to smile at the visual image that statement brings up. A year ago I mistook much of what I was seeing here as criticism and a harsh attitude and I figured that it was the result of people here getting burned so many times. I guess something in me knew that I wasn't ready yet, so I started reading and didn't worry about posting. Recently I feel a drive, a commitment to study the material, and a sincerity that I haven't felt since I was a young boy. I won't take comments as criticism or judgment.
Your comment about consistency makes me think of G's teaching about octaves and the need for shocks to keep the octave moving upward, otherwise the octave moves naturally downward, into entropy. Part of this for me has been reminding myself of my purpose every night before I go to sleep, while I practice Reiki on myself, and then again when I first wake up in the morning. I think it would be easy for "things I'm working on" to become a mechanical list that is repeated without thought, and this is another place where self-observation comes into play. Like the passage from In Search of the Miraculous where G talks about the need for a person to think about every word when they repeat it to them self, in order to give the words life and power.
Right now I can split my consciousness to attempt self observation for short bursts, and then I identify with something, go off on a program for a bit, then come back to it. I know that this is natural, both from the readings and from my experience with meditation, and I have gradually lessened attachment to results in this regard. In many ways the self-observation terminology describes the process of meditation and mindfulness. Thoughts come and go as they will, when you realize you are lost in thought, come back to the breath. But it is a more realistic and useful way of thinking about this system, in my opinion. About 2 weeks ago I drove from Asheville, North Carolina to Vermont, where I live, all by myself. I took my time, visited some friends and family along the way and drove for 3 days. Most of the people I saw commented on how long the drive was and how bored I must be. But I wasn't bored at all, I actually enjoyed the drive very much. I decided before I left Asheville that I would experiment with being present with my bodily sensations as much as possible by observing my body through its movements, posture, gestures, facial expression and tone of voice (when I was visiting with people). I listened to the radio and a book on tape and tried to split my attention between the task of driving, the music/story and the physical sensations present in my body. What I found is that I wasn't nearly as tired or sore as I normally am when I drive for long periods of time. I could only hold all three streams in my mind simultaneously for very brief periods, but I kept coming back to it, kept reminding myself. It was an enjoyable drive.
This is a concept that I have been considering, but unable to put into words. I work primarily from home, so I only talk to a few people on a regular basis, and I think I've been driving them kind of crazy lately because I keep trying to talk to them about the books I'm reading and the concepts I'm working to grasp and how I'm trying to implement them. Generally I'm met with initial interest followed by a glazing over of the eyes and eventually annoyance if I continue with my musings. To be honest, I don't blame anyone for this response. Writing these first few posts have helped me to think a few things through, and I'm talking to people who are thinking about the same issues and can help me to better understand. The people I live with have already commented that I seem more quiet in the last few days. I am looking forward to reading through the links. Instead of feeling daunted by the task before me, feeling frustrated by lack of product, I can't wait to read the next chapter.
Its been a full day. Good night and good luck!
Seamas
Thank you for your feedback. Imagine how boring life would be if we didn't have so much to do!
This is really good advice for me:
[quote author=PepperFritz]I would caution against trying to overhaul yourself all at once, or to expect "big changes", because it simply doesn't work that way. Set realistic goals, take baby steps, one day at a time. The important thing is to be consistent, to start building a daily practice of self-observation, knowing that over time you will become less and less mechanical in your responses, and more and more insightful into your own behaviour.[/quote]
This is a trap I have been prone to falling into for a long time. I have spent a great deal of time lamenting the sorry state of the world and indulging in feeling sad and depressed, daunted by the task that lies before me. Looking back on the last few years I see a series of attempts on my part to come at the problem of "how to change" from different angles, with different "fixes" (meditation, self-help programs, etc.) that I throw myself into with a fervor. After a short time I lose interest and even the project fades away. But I don't feel that way anymore. I have to catch myself from falling all of the time.
I appreciate this very much. I'm looking for a mirror. The issues that I'm writing about in these posts are issues that I have struggled with on my own and I have made some progress. But mostly I've been chasing my own tail, and I have to smile at the visual image that statement brings up. A year ago I mistook much of what I was seeing here as criticism and a harsh attitude and I figured that it was the result of people here getting burned so many times. I guess something in me knew that I wasn't ready yet, so I started reading and didn't worry about posting. Recently I feel a drive, a commitment to study the material, and a sincerity that I haven't felt since I was a young boy. I won't take comments as criticism or judgment.
Your comment about consistency makes me think of G's teaching about octaves and the need for shocks to keep the octave moving upward, otherwise the octave moves naturally downward, into entropy. Part of this for me has been reminding myself of my purpose every night before I go to sleep, while I practice Reiki on myself, and then again when I first wake up in the morning. I think it would be easy for "things I'm working on" to become a mechanical list that is repeated without thought, and this is another place where self-observation comes into play. Like the passage from In Search of the Miraculous where G talks about the need for a person to think about every word when they repeat it to them self, in order to give the words life and power.
Right now I can split my consciousness to attempt self observation for short bursts, and then I identify with something, go off on a program for a bit, then come back to it. I know that this is natural, both from the readings and from my experience with meditation, and I have gradually lessened attachment to results in this regard. In many ways the self-observation terminology describes the process of meditation and mindfulness. Thoughts come and go as they will, when you realize you are lost in thought, come back to the breath. But it is a more realistic and useful way of thinking about this system, in my opinion. About 2 weeks ago I drove from Asheville, North Carolina to Vermont, where I live, all by myself. I took my time, visited some friends and family along the way and drove for 3 days. Most of the people I saw commented on how long the drive was and how bored I must be. But I wasn't bored at all, I actually enjoyed the drive very much. I decided before I left Asheville that I would experiment with being present with my bodily sensations as much as possible by observing my body through its movements, posture, gestures, facial expression and tone of voice (when I was visiting with people). I listened to the radio and a book on tape and tried to split my attention between the task of driving, the music/story and the physical sensations present in my body. What I found is that I wasn't nearly as tired or sore as I normally am when I drive for long periods of time. I could only hold all three streams in my mind simultaneously for very brief periods, but I kept coming back to it, kept reminding myself. It was an enjoyable drive.
This is a concept that I have been considering, but unable to put into words. I work primarily from home, so I only talk to a few people on a regular basis, and I think I've been driving them kind of crazy lately because I keep trying to talk to them about the books I'm reading and the concepts I'm working to grasp and how I'm trying to implement them. Generally I'm met with initial interest followed by a glazing over of the eyes and eventually annoyance if I continue with my musings. To be honest, I don't blame anyone for this response. Writing these first few posts have helped me to think a few things through, and I'm talking to people who are thinking about the same issues and can help me to better understand. The people I live with have already commented that I seem more quiet in the last few days. I am looking forward to reading through the links. Instead of feeling daunted by the task before me, feeling frustrated by lack of product, I can't wait to read the next chapter.
Its been a full day. Good night and good luck!
Seamas
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Re: \
Hi Seamas,
From what you've written, it sounds like your motor center is acting up - you're impatient and, in some ways, demanding. You want results - and now.
You're 'looking for a mirror'. A true mirror is really - truly - unpleasant to the personality (I cannot overstate this fact) - so stating that you 'want it' indicates that you truly do not understand what it is.
The other aspect of a shock is not giving 'it' what it wants. Not giving 'it' attention, or a 'mirror', or a clarification on what 'its' interpretation of the Work might be; to basically point out that the student is attempting to be the architect of the school and it does not work that way.
With that said, allow me to point out a few things, since you are rather impatient to hear them...
What is the lineage of this Reiki you practice? Are you aware that most Reiki as taught is corrupted and fairly close to opposite of what it should be?
It does sound as if it's become mechanical - you've done this and this and this and now you expect this and this and this.
When one is Working on Self Knowledge - formulas, expectations, demands and time lines serve nothing but the false personality - in short, they act against awakening.
Really? I see no lessening of attachment to results in anything you've written. In fact, I see nothing but attachment to results.
In what way - exactly?
This is word salad.
Is there a reason you wrote the above - other than self -indulgence?
Brevity and a high signal to noise ratio is indicative of an understanding of External Consideration.
If you cannot employ a Strategic Enclosure and cannot practice External Consideration then you cannot proceed.
Seamus - I've given you an infinitesimal fraction of what you're "looking for" - if you are serious about this work, then please READ. At the very least, learn to deeply understand and implement a Strategic Enclosure and External Consideration so that you are then free in your personal environment to delve more deeply into why you are ruled by impatience and expectations. Then - you might really begin to see the 'results' you are so impatiently searching for. fwiw.
Seamas said:
Hi Seamas,
From what you've written, it sounds like your motor center is acting up - you're impatient and, in some ways, demanding. You want results - and now.
You're 'looking for a mirror'. A true mirror is really - truly - unpleasant to the personality (I cannot overstate this fact) - so stating that you 'want it' indicates that you truly do not understand what it is.
S said:
The other aspect of a shock is not giving 'it' what it wants. Not giving 'it' attention, or a 'mirror', or a clarification on what 'its' interpretation of the Work might be; to basically point out that the student is attempting to be the architect of the school and it does not work that way.
With that said, allow me to point out a few things, since you are rather impatient to hear them...
S said:
What is the lineage of this Reiki you practice? Are you aware that most Reiki as taught is corrupted and fairly close to opposite of what it should be?
S said:
It does sound as if it's become mechanical - you've done this and this and this and now you expect this and this and this.
When one is Working on Self Knowledge - formulas, expectations, demands and time lines serve nothing but the false personality - in short, they act against awakening.
S said:
Really? I see no lessening of attachment to results in anything you've written. In fact, I see nothing but attachment to results.
S said:
In what way - exactly?
S said:
This is word salad.
S said:
Is there a reason you wrote the above - other than self -indulgence?
Brevity and a high signal to noise ratio is indicative of an understanding of External Consideration.
S said:
If you cannot employ a Strategic Enclosure and cannot practice External Consideration then you cannot proceed.
Seamus - I've given you an infinitesimal fraction of what you're "looking for" - if you are serious about this work, then please READ. At the very least, learn to deeply understand and implement a Strategic Enclosure and External Consideration so that you are then free in your personal environment to delve more deeply into why you are ruled by impatience and expectations. Then - you might really begin to see the 'results' you are so impatiently searching for. fwiw.
Hi Anart,
Thank you for your reply.
My Reiki teacher spoke about the existence of different lineages and about the Reiki Alliance, but I think she left the Alliance for some reason. She presented us with a lineage list and discussed it with us, but I don't remember very well as it was 8 or so years ago. I will look into it.
I will get back to reading.
Seamas
Thank you for your reply.
My Reiki teacher spoke about the existence of different lineages and about the Reiki Alliance, but I think she left the Alliance for some reason. She presented us with a lineage list and discussed it with us, but I don't remember very well as it was 8 or so years ago. I will look into it.
I will get back to reading.
Seamas
Re: \
I suggest reading "The Narcissistic Family" (QFG recommended reading list) to understand more where these programs might be coming from.
Understanding more about the possible root cause will help you with your self-observation.
Dominique
Hi Seamas,PepperFritz said:
I suggest reading "The Narcissistic Family" (QFG recommended reading list) to understand more where these programs might be coming from.
Understanding more about the possible root cause will help you with your self-observation.
Dominique
iloveyoghurt
Jedi
Appollynon said:
Appollynon there is perhaps an other aspect to this, an other perspective that I'd like to put to you. Perhaps, on some level, through your own feelings with your position with parents (not feeling needed etc) you were able to identify, through personal experience (empathy) therefore knew the importance of responding to an others call to be needed. In this way, you have served yourself by serving an other; that is, your responsiveness to them was ultimately a response to yourself as we are all actually connected.
IMO, I think it would be helpful if people would take it a bit easy and gently on themselves.