Hidden beliefs that shape our life experiences

Nico

Jedi Council Member
Let me sum up staggering : it is following the emotional (energy flow) reaction that you have about the task at the moment ? I like it because I am getting the habit to make everything the more simple it must be. Purify the automatic reaction and regress to the core point of simple awareness. In staggering you'll have some automatic reactions popping but as far as you are aware of them and do not fight against it will be very good for choosing to take another path of the habit.

I have a hard time with the word "suffering" that is the core of this experience on earth, at least if you want to progress. And I am struggling more when I discover that suffering is not required at all to change ! So what all the talk about suffering if it is to not suffer at the end ? And we see it here when wanting to change an habit, the more usefull way is the more conscious way is the less suffering way. So it's pointing that it is the mind which suffers because of resistance and preconcieved belief. Maybe suffering is just a signal that something is wrong, but after the signal made its job it become not necessary at all ?

Anyway the useful way I am learning to change habit is to "get rid of" the surplus, make it slow make it easy make it in a non suffering way.

And a practical exemple I have is when I do my stretching, I breathe in the stretching point aka the suffering point, and challenge myself saying is the pain real or not ? I got to a point where I believe that with little breath, some will and time nothing is impossible; I think it's relate to the zone. :)
 
Kinyash -- thanks for posting your observations. My studies of psychology, therapy, and hypnotherapy, and even astrology strongly lean in the same direction as you've stated.

Invariably behavior I object to in others I've subsequently discovered is precisely how I, myself, behave. I just recently -- over the past 2 days -- noticed something a friend of mine was doing. As I was writing about it in my journal, it occurred to me that another friend of mine did the exact same thing. Then I realized that I had been also doing that same thing to others. Well, when I don't like how someone else's behavior affects me, and then I notice that I do the same thing, it's acts as a spur for me to immediately stop doing it myself. It seems as if I don't notice my own offensive behavior as easily until I'm on the receiving end of that same behavior and realize how much I dislike it.

It's too bad that I'm unable to see how my own behavior impacts others until I'm on the receiving end of that same behavior though. That's why I so value this Network. And the Aim of this Network. Because I can rely on people here to point out what they CAN see which I am unable to see myself.

And our un-conscious or sub-conscious beliefs. So many are instilled while we are in the womb when we're in a pre-verbal state. Doing the Work is like opening our personal pandora's box.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
I like the concept of staggering, thanks nickelbleu.
I have the problem of taking on a huge project and not feeling satisfied if it cannot be completed.
One such task was dealing with a new router that I am setting up and programming to do high security and automation.
I ran into many roadblocks and would not notice that I was staying up too late, angrily heading to bed.
Two weeks ago, I had other pressing issues that forced me to stop that task. It's been sitting on my floor doing nothing, but during that time of not working on it, new inspirations and ideas came to mind.
It reminded me that creativity, whether it be in something complicated or simple like washing windows, requires a pace. We're taught from school that we have to push hard, study, and complete the projects with their strict set deadlines and restrictions. After all, the school system was originally designed to create factory workers who are docile.
Of course, when it comes to "us", we can't be easily tamed that way and that's where the negative emotions can give us a push to stop being a "robot", haha.

On the other thread there was a question brought up on doing what it doesnt like.
It really is a fine line!
We can do it mindlessly and push through just for the sake of it. I would think not much is gained from that and a risk of burnout.
We can avoid it and not do it at all. Again, not much gained.
OR, we can do both by choice, what little free will we do have is exercised on both sides of the coin-

Another corny spoof: TO DO OR NOT TO DO THAT IS THE QUESTION
 
Nico said:
Let me sum up staggering : it is following the emotional (energy flow) reaction that you have about the task at the moment ? I like it because I am getting the habit to make everything the more simple it must be. Purify the automatic reaction and regress to the core point of simple awareness. In staggering you'll have some automatic reactions popping but as far as you are aware of them and do not fight against it will be very good for choosing to take another path of the habit.

I have a hard time with the word "suffering" that is the core of this experience on earth, at least if you want to progress. And I am struggling more when I discover that suffering is not required at all to change ! So what all the talk about suffering if it is to not suffer at the end ? And we see it here when wanting to change an habit, the more usefull way is the more conscious way is the less suffering way. So it's pointing that it is the mind which suffers because of resistance and preconcieved belief. Maybe suffering is just a signal that something is wrong, but after the signal made its job it become not necessary at all ?

Anyway the useful way I am learning to change habit is to "get rid of" the surplus, make it slow make it easy make it in a non suffering way.

And a practical exemple I have is when I do my stretching, I breathe in the stretching point aka the suffering point, and challenge myself saying is the pain real or not ? I got to a point where I believe that with little breath, some will and time nothing is impossible; I think it's relate to the zone. :)
Thank you very much nico for your expanded explanation of the Staggering approach. Especially the part I bolded -- about following the emotional energy. That actually makes total sense to me. My habit has always been to stick to the task until I complete it -- even if I'm feeling exhausted and going beyond my physical, mental, or emotional limits. I'm just now realizing how I'm violating my own boundaries by doing that. And sticking to the task is always a MENTAL decision or choice. In other words, I'm using Mental Force -- or maybe I'm using Will Power (not sure exactly if there's a difference -- and if there is, what that difference actually is) -- to power myself through the task -- even when my body is screaming at me to STOP. So the idea of "following" the emotional energy seems like I would be able to remain in 'Present-Time' better. Because once I reach physical & mental exhaustion, then continuing to use my Will Power or Mental decision to get that task done and over with so I can stop and give my body a reprieve, means I start focusing more on the future of getting the task completed rather than being in the present-time flow or process and allowing myself to shift and change as I move through it.

NOTE: I do have that thread about Gabor Mate's book -- "When The Body Says No" bookmarked to read. I'm already pretty sure he's on the right track. The title alone makes me suspect so.

As to your Yoga reference, I, too, noticed that it works best for me to breathe INTO my stretches rather than resist or wish to get through them so I can feel the relief & relaxation that comes with moving out of the Yoga position. A friend of mine told me once -- pain is just a sensation. And when I thought about it, it made sense. So now, I try to remember that whenever I experience some pain, I remind myself that I am just feeling a "sensation" instead of telling myself that I'm feeling pain. Of course, I'm referring to quite minor pains NOT some major injury. But I think I would still experiment with telling myself that I was feeling a sensation rather than telling myself it was hurting or painful -- just to see how that would work. I don't know yet. :) It reminds me of an article I read on SOTT or maybe here on the Forum that Anxiety produces the same physical chemicals as Excitement. So if we are feeling anxious, we can re-frame our narrative and say to ourselves, "Oh! I'm feeling excited!" rather than "Oh! I'm feeling anxious!" I've used it myself and it actually works! So I've passed that info on to several people so they can see if it works for them too. It's pretty amazing how much power our thoughts have in supporting our beliefs and limiting us -- or, in the alternative, de-limiting us. :)
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thank-you for the quotes and your reactions, Joe.

Your writing and shared thinking makes for great "brain food" and keeps me feeling spiritually nourished and motivated.

Also, thank-you to the other contributing posters on this thread. There's some fine stuff in there!

Here are some specific thoughts which struck me while reading through all of this...


Again! YCYOR! I'm STILL only coming to terms with that concept. It's been years, and even after pondering and pulling at the idea, after practical (and impractical) tests.., I find I have yet to achieve a thoroughly comfortable place with it. Wishful Thinking will destroy you. But you can create your own reality. But only if you do it right. What is right? Ugh.

Though, and in a large part thanks to such threads as this very one, I do feel I am closer today to a working relationship with the concept than I was ten years ago. It's like polishing a raw diamond. Every little bit of work increases the clarity, but it takes time and effort.

I think until I am able to easily and succinctly explain the subject to somebody, it won't be "done". Right now it would take several paragraphs and still leave the reader and myself not entirely clear.

Another thought...

Fascination motivates me! Fear only rarely pokes its nose into the matter. -Though.., those early days of exploring this stuff and stumbling through some lower basement of the Denver Airport and onto those old .gif heavy Cass pages with their hundreds of HTML links.., those were alarming times. Sitting late at night with the universe I thought I knew crumbling down around my ears? "The Vats are Real". WHAT?! Vats?? Are you serious?!? Jesus!

But soon after that, it became an exercise in fascination, an adventure which spread out into every other aspect of life and social connection. The phrase, "Learning is fun!" played through my mind regularly, and does so even now. "Life is religion." What a great quote!

So there is very little I find myself scared of. Except taxes. The government and banks sometimes scare the bejeezuz out of me, but those are specific lessons. Learning how to navigate that insanity with grace is on my to-do (better) list. Sometimes I'll see a shadow shape from the corner of my eye, or a star move weirdly overhead, and that'll give me a shot of adrenaline and make me want to scamper. I'm scared sometimes of hurting people or of saying stupid things. Of being a jerk. -Which too is just part of the lesson plan. But general fear? Fear of the Beast? Fear of comets and fascists and glaciers? Sure. But also.., no way! The world is amazing and full of crazy, marvelous, absurd dramas. "This too shall pass," so pay attention! Every moment is unique, one-time only! Don't let it go to waste. The special effects alone must have come at great expense. God hand-animated the whole thing, so try not to blink.

I long ago gave up being skeptical about the materials here. I ran my tests and dove down rabbit holes and made myself dizzy with "And so therefore". I lived my experiments and now have simply settled into a crystalized kind of faith, (I suppose you could call it that; "belief" perhaps, in keeping with the thread topic.) -in the ideas of reincarnation and energy and the non-linear ways in which the intelligent, conscious universe moves around and through us. I'm not even sure you can call it faith anymore. It's just there. It's obvious. Like "believing" in my hands or the air around me. Consequently, non-official reality, "the Force", is in constant activation all over, around and through everybody, responding and moving. Reality is fully interactive. Not magic. It's just how it is. Is the air magic? Yes. No. Doesn't matter. Breathe.

But there is still so much work to do!

For one thing...

I still find myself grumbling in my own mind over annoying interactions I'd had days or years ago, arguing my side of some stupid bit of ego-bruised nothing. Still! -Don Juan would call such wasteful energy use "indulgence". But I've been catching myself and getting better at redirecting. With semi-constant monitoring and effort, the half-life of such internal patterns seems to be about three or four years. -That is, when they hit, their power, length and mind-dominating intensity has shrunk as the neural pathways driving them are fed regressively fewer resources. Today they are piddly little things as compared to the all-consuming tantrums they once commanded.

My life today is run by patterns which are sort of dull sometimes; especially when I see bright people around me moving into new phases of their own lives. I want to adventure out there as well. But I've got a few specific achievements I'm aiming for which necessitate my continuing on my current course, following routines and long term nose-grinding. I'm a slave by choice, and when I'm done I anticipate being nimble enough to change course. I look forward to it. Until then, some pattern is good.

Okay. That's my bit.

Thanks again, Joe and everybody!

Great thread!
 

Nico

Jedi Council Member
13 Twirling Triskeles said:
Thank you very much nico for your expanded explanation of the Staggering approach. Especially the part I bolded -- about following the emotional energy. That actually makes total sense to me. My habit has always been to stick to the task until I complete it -- even if I'm feeling exhausted and going beyond my physical, mental, or emotional limits. I'm just now realizing how I'm violating my own boundaries by doing that. And sticking to the task is always a MENTAL decision or choice. In other words, I'm using Mental Force -- or maybe I'm using Will Power (not sure exactly if there's a difference -- and if there is, what that difference actually is) -- to power myself through the task -- even when my body is screaming at me to STOP. So the idea of "following" the emotional energy seems like I would be able to remain in 'Present-Time' better. Because once I reach physical & mental exhaustion, then continuing to use my Will Power or Mental decision to get that task done and over with so I can stop and give my body a reprieve, means I start focusing more on the future of getting the task completed rather than being in the present-time flow or process and allowing myself to shift and change as I move through it.
Hehe it reminds me my addiction of chocolate : I discovered that it is my mind that telling me it's an addiction, because I had released these emotional reaction/the wanting chocolate, my body feeled quite complete and at ease but then my mind took my right hand, my foots... all my body, and I litterally see it, walk into that piece of chocolate ! It was like a robot, and for me, I saw it because my feeling in a part of my body were calm.
Habits take place at all level of the Experience, and I think "bad habits" (in relation to the context and the Time of the present moment in which the person is) are generated by a bad communication between the center/level of experience. If my mind hijack my body because of an habit even if gut emotions are relatively at peace, it have to have a conflict somewhere... So ending an habit take "time", and if time is just the feeling of acting certain steps to create a process, maybe ending an habit will take the same "time" (or steps). And the absolute prerequisite to end an habit is to be concsious of the steps or the "time" of the habit. I see it with chocolate, the "emotional reaction" part/step of the habit is under relative control, but the mechanical mind/body part/step of the habit is not : I see my mind telling me different excuses to reenact the same habit, and sometimes it could be very stretchy, as it telling me that if I repeat this habit I can become stronger in breaking habit, but if it goes too long this cycle of keeping an habit to training itself to breaking habit BECOMES an habit... Contemplate the tricky mind !

And as DBZ said :

DBZ said:
We can do it mindlessly and push through just for the sake of it.
 

bozadi

Jedi
The dominant religions emphasize that you are NOT God, the ultimate reality. C’s say you ARE God, as everything is, in this or that level, density or extent. I assume that God is something like the ultimate meaning, possibility and potential, and the highest, deepest, purest state of being ever possible, but all the existence is also nothing but God or Being in a level of it. As C’s highlight, nothing can escape being God as long as it exists as God means To Be, in various successive levels of purity or density.

The most provocatively positive thought to me is this, that I’m God, that I’m potentially an agent of being, to whatever extent I really am, and I feel endlessly grateful to C’s for emphasizing this adamantly in the face of existential disinformation imposed on our consciousness by religions and any other organizations in direct and indirect ways, deliberately or not so deliberately. And whoever is doing this to us deliberately in whatever extent, they are the agents of non-being in that extent. This is what I perceive from the materials, the work, the discussion in this forum.

We have so badly been made accustomed to wait for something or someone to tell us the meaning of our life and what we are supposed to be and do. To a relatively great extent, this is disinformation, I believe.

We die, we disincarnate, but this is not really a problem. If I really need to die, then I will, and if I need to reincarnate, I will. We children are being taken care of very effectively in this fundamental process by “parents” so to say. This is or these are what we have been told, and I tend to believe in it and want to believe it more deeply, because I perceive that that IS the reality, and the fundamental truths of life will always set me free or balance me as I need it.

I think that the transition from 3D to 4D is very much about growing. Maybe, like from childhood to youngness. We are kind of supposed to understand and appreciate the true love being given to us by the army of the elder agents of being, so to say, and also take more responsibility in transforming our life from the position of sole receivership to more conscious to creatorship or giving, creating.

We fell from the STO realm because we had had it for granted, and we did, it seems, somehow corrupt ourselves and had to fall. We needed to see and appreciate the meaning of STO, the life, the being, and decide whether we really want it. We destined ourselves to our current psychopathic reality. Potential agents of being have been under severe attack by some relatively actual agents of non-being. God knows this is despite how much help and true love we have been receiving in the meantime from actual agents of being even if they do not personally and physically show up in the middle of our corrupt and horrible reality. But I believe that the work promoted in this platform is one of our best chances for cooperating to question, understand and counteract the severe psychopathy that threatens our possible journey in being.
 

flashgordonv

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
nicklebleu said:
For me that turned out to be a brilliant concept, because when I usually start something, I put an endpoint to it - either I have to finish the task, or do a predetermined amount, before I am "allowed to quit". And that means, that sometimes this prevents me from starting at all, or I have to flog myself through it.

Oh, the tyranny of the To-Do List. When we moved to rural New Zealand, there were a bunch of tasks that we felt needed doing, so we drove ourselves for weeks on end to complete them, ticking them off the list, but in the process nearly killing ourselves through exhaustion. And the list NEVER was complete. As you did some items, more moved on to take their place, a continuous process with a life of its own

Eventually we managed to call a halt to the process. We stopped making huge lists, we stopped putting sometimes unrealistic deadlines on the tasks and we started to relax into doing what we could manage with out exhausting ourselves.

My wife has always been more driven than I have been when it comes to task lists and getting things done. Even now there are times when I have to call a halt. I ask her 'will the world come to an end if we don't get that done today? Why not just be good to yourself and stop." It has made life a lot less stressful and a lot more peaceful.

Consequently, we don't do To-Do lists anymore
 

flashgordonv

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Joe said:
So this might bring up a question that may, or may not, be relevant for some members of this forum: To what extent do you adhere to the Cs philosophy and teachings because of a somewhat unconscious fear of punishment or promise of reward? After all, some of the core ideas of what the Cs have said could be interpreted as a threat of "punishment" (planetary catastrophe) or promise of reward ("4D") depending on whether or not you do enough 'Work on the self'. Of course, that is not all of (by a long stretch) what the Cs say, and the way in which any of us might interpret those ideas of planetary catastrophe and "4D" would probably be influenced by the nature of other unconscious beliefs about life, the 'universe' et al.
I think many christians are definitely believers because of fear. I first struck this when I was "gloriously saved" into the Pentecostal church back when I was 21.

Two things really struck me. First, the number of people who were terrified of backsliding and going to hell. I used to hear people praying (I was one of them for a while) - Jesus, if I am going to backslide, please take me home first. Please don't let me backslide. I want to go to heaven with you not to hell.

Second, the number of people who totally believed that Jesus was coming back imminently and as a consequence didn't do anything. Kids didn't bother to go to University, didn't give any thought to what they were going to do career wise. They were happy to sit back and wait to be taken to glory. And that was 40 years ago. Still they preach the imminent return of the lord and still people wait for glory.

So, I finally managed to start to think and extricate myself from the sticky tentacles of the pentecostal church and eventually stumbled across Laura and the C's.

The material resonated, the terror of the situation became apparent. I found myself at times worried that the work in me was not being done well or quickly enough, and there was the fear that I would miss the translation to 4D, until I recognised the similarities with the old pentecostal paradigm.

Now, I am living life by the day. It is what it is. If it is all true, well and good. It if is not true, as somebody else noted in the thread, there is enough self obvious truth to make it all worthwhile. I would prefer to get off the time loop prison line, but if I end up having to come back and do it again, there is no point worrying about it. I endeavour to practice self observation, I am definitely more aware of what is happening in the world and doing my bit to share that information were and when applicable. it is too easy to be totally STS about wanting to be STO IMHO.
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
Today I went to a meetup with a stoic group which meets monthly or so to speak about specific books on Stoicism.

Funny the synchronicity, this meeting was about On Providence https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Of_Providence, a book that Seneca wrote to talk about the faith of the Stoics in the unknown.

The basic gist seems to be that anything and everything can happen to us. But it is up to us to prepare ourselves and grow with what we get. By not being physically/biologically(brain?) addicted to results and chance we can open ourselves to any and all possibilities.

I especially liked the section that speaks about death and other issues in chapter VI:

You do not shine outwardly, all your good qualities are turned inwards; even so does the world neglect what lies without it, and rejoices in the contemplation of itself. I have placed every good thing within your own breasts: it is your good fortune not to need any good fortune. ‘Yet many things befall you which are sad, dreadful, hard to be borne.’ Well, as I have not been able to remove these from your path, I have given your minds strength to combat all: bear them bravely. In this you can surpass God himself; He is beyond suffering evil; you are above it. Despise poverty; no man lives as poor as he was born: despise pain; either it will cease or you will cease: despise death; it either ends you or takes you elsewhere: despise fortune; I have given her no weapon that can reach the mind.
The openness to what may be is critical, the only true objective thing is that we don't know everything.
 

Joe

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Divide By Zero said:
I especially liked the section that speaks about death and other issues in chapter VI:

You do not shine outwardly, all your good qualities are turned inwards; even so does the world neglect what lies without it, and rejoices in the contemplation of itself. I have placed every good thing within your own breasts: it is your good fortune not to need any good fortune. ‘Yet many things befall you which are sad, dreadful, hard to be borne.’ Well, as I have not been able to remove these from your path, I have given your minds strength to combat all: bear them bravely. In this you can surpass God himself; He is beyond suffering evil; you are above it. Despise poverty; no man lives as poor as he was born: despise pain; either it will cease or you will cease: despise death; it either ends you or takes you elsewhere: despise fortune; I have given her no weapon that can reach the mind.
I like that a lot DBZ, seems self-evidently true. Thanks for posting.
 
Funny variation on "Thinking Fast and Slow". Breaking my habit of thinking fast.

Yesterday, I tried a little experiment. More as a lark than with any expectation of results.

I don't know about others, but when my Little i's are in charge of my thoughts, they chatter away a mile-a-minute, taking up all my mental space (& mental energy as well).

So I decided I would try s-l-o-w-i-n-g their "talk". I made each word they thought l-o-n-g and drawn out. And each sylable of each word long and drawn out. And the accents on those sylables were often not how we would ordinarily accent them. So, for instance, the word "hyperkenetic sensate" is normally pronounced "hy-per-ke-ne-tic sen-sate" (accent on the bolded sylables). But when I slowed and elongated those sylables, they came out like this: "hy-per-ke-ne-tic sen-sate" instead. A different rhythm.

Which, as I'm typing this out is occurring to me — I wonder how much our thinking and speaking is connected to rhythm. And how rhythm affects our thinking and speaking. Don't know. I need to look at that more closely.

Then I found myself breathing in and out for each separate sylable. It was like using EE to think each word and sylable of the thought.

And what happened was a separation between my Observer I and those Little i's. Creating more space inside my mind.

Technically, this is not at all what Thinking Fast & Slow means. But I really WAS thinking slow. Gave a whole new and different meaning to that concept of "thinking fast & slow". :)

Anyway, it was just an interesting exercise to do for the fun of it. That it produced the result it did was a little bonus.

RHYTHM: movement or procedure with uniform or patterned recurrence of a beat, accent, or the like.
 

3DStudent

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I think for me it took a while to deprogram from my Protestant Christian upbringing. And to an extent I am still doing so. The concepts I learned from the C's were kind of just a melding of the previous religious concepts. So I had a lot of fear based thinking and now, I have to do my best to anchor the frequency so that we can avoid cometary bombardment! Instead of the former, "Be a good Christian so you don't go to Hell." (Although all you need is to be "saved" these days, eh? No real efforts.)

I think punishment is really engrained in me. And judgement. I am really self critical, and I think it started when schooling started. Must make the grade to be worth anything. I actually didn't like school at first, because I was shy and just wanted to be with my mom. I was afraid of the other kids. I eventually had a pep talk and got over the fear and improved my grades. But I don't think being a "good student" was really my choice or what I wanted to do. Granted, I did benefit from good grades and then going to college as far as life experience and finances go.

So I agree that we have to pick our values and see what works for us. Like G said, don't just follow words, but try things out.

As for truth being valuable in and of itself, that one was easy. It's like a curious adventure, and the truth may be painful or pleasurable. Work on the self I'm less certain about. I think I'm doing all this because I know it to be beneficial. There may be some positive reward, but when I look at myself, I see I have a long way to go so it's hard to expect a reward any time soon.

I did not initially see the value of service to others. And when I read the opening post it was the week before my birthday party, and it was a horribly stressful week. Luckily things died down and I could reflect and I pondered the value of service to others as I drove to my birthday party being held at my sister's house.

I was thinking about the Big Bang, and the idea that the Universe might contract back to a singularity and then explode again. And if you were outside linear time, it might look like "God's heartbeat." A pulsating motion of expansion and contraction. I was thinking of "In the Garden of the Universe" so I had a more female God pictured. And I thought about everything the Universe gives to us. My dad had changed my oil for me a few days previous, despite having had a recent surgery.

And that's when I had a glimpse of STO's value. The Universe gives to us, and it is constantly breathing. We can be a channel of that giving energy if we choose to. Like this quote: "The choice is always there, it's when you choose that counts."

At that point I was crying quite a bit. I was thinking about how I could help others myself. I think when you're helped, it can create a bit of empathy for the person giving, you know, you feel like paying it forward. I'm sure I lost some details as that was nearly 4 weeks ago, but that's the gist of the profound content. Anyway, I was touched and cheered up and had a great birthday party after a rough week.

PS: Just wanted to add that that last part happens quite often: when you ask a sincere question, you receive an answer, sometimes in the same hour! Other times I guess it comes in dreams, days later, or maybe in more subtle days. Also be careful what you're asking too, or not, because the Universe gives us nothing we're not able to handle. All is lessons. So it's pretty cool that all you need to do is sincerely ask, "It's fun to see how much you can access."
 
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