High Dose Melatonin Therapy

I tried melatonin about ten years ago.
I have never had any problems sleeping or falling asleep.
I took 2mg the first night and it went well.
I did the same the next night but the day after that still leaves me with a bad memory. It's like walking next to my shoes.
So I didn't take any more.
Not long ago I wanted to try again because I had bought some for my daughter in spray. 6 sprays correspond to 1 dose of 1.9 mg.
I had just taken 1 spray (0.31mg) but I didn't continue.
As I have had covid since Monday night, I wanted to try it last night in addition to my supplements to fight against the virus.
I took 2 sprays (0.62). It was a disaster!
I woke up shortly afterwards completely soaked. Even the hollows of my forearms were dripping with water. I was a bit agitated and went back to sleep, but not for long.
I had a nightmare where I felt very insecure, a bit anxious, and I woke up. I had to get up for a while because this feeling of insecurity persisted.
I told myself that I would never touch melatonin again!
Then, this morning, I was hesitating between persisting in trying 0.31mg or really not taking it at all.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 
I tried melatonin about ten years ago.
I have never had any problems sleeping or falling asleep.
I took 2mg the first night and it went well.
I did the same the next night but the day after that still leaves me with a bad memory. It's like walking next to my shoes.
So I didn't take any more.
Not long ago I wanted to try again because I had bought some for my daughter in spray. 6 sprays correspond to 1 dose of 1.9 mg.
I had just taken 1 spray (0.31mg) but I didn't continue.
As I have had covid since Monday night, I wanted to try it last night in addition to my supplements to fight against the virus.
I took 2 sprays (0.62). It was a disaster!
I woke up shortly afterwards completely soaked. Even the hollows of my forearms were dripping with water. I was a bit agitated and went back to sleep, but not for long.
I had a nightmare where I felt very insecure, a bit anxious, and I woke up. I had to get up for a while because this feeling of insecurity persisted.
I told myself that I would never touch melatonin again!
Then, this morning, I was hesitating between persisting in trying 0.31mg or really not taking it at all.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
All I can say is that melatonin, according the C's, is a mild hallucinogenic. So it could explain your nightmare since you're not used to take it.

For the antiviral properties, it's more in the range of 5 mg, even 10 mg, so you're far from it.

I hope some others more knowledgeable will answer you and wish you to feel better very soon. :-)
 
I woke up shortly afterwards completely soaked. Even the hollows of my forearms were dripping with water.
I regularly take 5mg of melatonin before bed.
I have never slept much, and taking melatonin did not significantly increase my sleep duration, but I sleep more soundly and wake up more serene.
Working nights, I can usually get up whenever I want. But melatonin or not, I sleep longer at the beginning of the week (7 to 9 hours), and less and less as the days go by until the weekend, when I sleep very little (3 to 4 hours). I think it's psychological. I want to enjoy my weekend at the expense of my sleep.
I don't have a problem falling asleep in general since doing EE. My problem now is sleeping long enough and not waking up all the time. If I wake up after 3 hours of sleep, it is very difficult, if not impossible, for me to go back to sleep when it is in the middle or at the end of the week.

Recently, I increased the doses to experiment. No difference until I took 10mg. I was also completely soaked and dripping with water about two hours after. But then I fell back to sleep very soundly and slept longer than usual. (I did it for a week).
I didn't find the experience unpleasant except for excessive sweating. I feel like my sleep was more "restorative". I even wondered if the perspiration was not due to cleaning the body.

Eventually I went back to my usual 5mg.
 
All I can say is that melatonin, according the C's, is a mild hallucinogenic. So it could explain your nightmare since you're not used to take it.

For the antiviral properties, it's more in the range of 5 mg, even 10 mg, so you're far from it.

I hope some others more knowledgeable will answer you and wish you to feel better very soon. :-)
Thank you.
I had read the whole thread before posting my reply. I wanted to know if anyone had experienced similar effects with such small doses. I read about the mild hallucinations. I also saw that Laura tolerated it very little at first.
I didn't dare take a large dose. I had enough of the disease and didn't want to put up with violent side effects on top of it.😅
 
like some reported anything above physiological levels(300-500mcg) wakes me up at the middle of the night and I can sleep no longer, i wonder if one of the reasons is that by accelerating the cleaning processes and all that you are essentially "sleeping faster"? but then doesn't feel natural to me...
and weird dreams don't compensate for it xD

idk if has been posted here but at these smaller dosages timing matters:

 
like some reported anything above physiological levels(300-500mcg) wakes me up at the middle of the night and I can sleep no longer, i wonder if one of the reasons is that by accelerating the cleaning processes and all that you are essentially "sleeping faster"? but then doesn't feel natural to me...
and weird dreams don't compensate for it xD

idk if has been posted here but at these smaller dosages timing matters:

that's what I figured. Before I paid attention to the forum's research on the topic, I first heard of it from my ex (who was quite experienced with prescription psychotropics, but had settled down to basic supplements) and she swore that melatonin's effectiveness had some inverse relationship to dosage. She had a couple years of serious insomnia after a concussion (hence the experience with prescription psychotropics) and she could 'megadose' on it to no avail, even 12mg (her prescribed dosage) would not help her sleep (nor did she report any significant side-effects), but 3mg clearly did. In all likelyhood, there is a fine balance between stabilizing your day/night hormonal cycle, or peaking the cycle in a way that is no longer effective.

I wouldn't know though, considering her experience I only ever took 3mg at a time, and even that not often enough to establish the effects from my own experience. But you're right, melatonin timing and minimal dosage might be the most important factors in its effectiveness.
 
that's what I figured. Before I paid attention to the forum's research on the topic, I first heard of it from my ex (who was quite experienced with prescription psychotropics, but had settled down to basic supplements) and she swore that melatonin's effectiveness had some inverse relationship to dosage. She had a couple years of serious insomnia after a concussion (hence the experience with prescription psychotropics) and she could 'megadose' on it to no avail, even 12mg (her prescribed dosage) would not help her sleep (nor did she report any significant side-effects), but 3mg clearly did. In all likelyhood, there is a fine balance between stabilizing your day/night hormonal cycle, or peaking the cycle in a way that is no longer effective.

I wouldn't know though, considering her experience I only ever took 3mg at a time, and even that not often enough to establish the effects from my own experience. But you're right, melatonin timing and minimal dosage might be the most important factors in its effectiveness.
mine comes in 10mg pills and i find ridiculous, used to dissolve it in a dropper/water bottle and take 1/30 of that

another overlooked issue I've heard from my pharmacist about the tonic/phasic effect is the interaction with oxytocin receptors and desensitization/emotional blunting at superphysiological doses
 
I tried melatonin about ten years ago.
I have never had any problems sleeping or falling asleep.
I took 2mg the first night and it went well.
I did the same the next night but the day after that still leaves me with a bad memory. It's like walking next to my shoes.
So I didn't take any more.
Not long ago I wanted to try again because I had bought some for my daughter in spray. 6 sprays correspond to 1 dose of 1.9 mg.
I had just taken 1 spray (0.31mg) but I didn't continue.
As I have had covid since Monday night, I wanted to try it last night in addition to my supplements to fight against the virus.
I took 2 sprays (0.62). It was a disaster!
I woke up shortly afterwards completely soaked. Even the hollows of my forearms were dripping with water. I was a bit agitated and went back to sleep, but not for long.
I had a nightmare where I felt very insecure, a bit anxious, and I woke up. I had to get up for a while because this feeling of insecurity persisted.
I told myself that I would never touch melatonin again!
Then, this morning, I was hesitating between persisting in trying 0.31mg or really not taking it at all.

I've never heard of anyone reacting like this, especially to such small doses. Have you ever had a similar reaction to another substance? And do you normally experience reactions to foods, meds or supplements?

You said that you never had any sleeping issues, maybe the reaction was a result of your body not needing more than it produces itself, thus reacting to the amount you took as if it was an overdose? It's really hard to say.

I used to take 2.5mg of melatonin for a few years until last summer I started to feel really tired during the day, I couldn't fall asleep in the evening, I felt agitated and my thinking was scattered. I would also wake up groggy and struggle to get out of bed in the morning. Then in August, after well over a month of trying to figure out what the trigger for the fatigue was, I decided to lower the melatonin dose to 1mg. It solved the problem almost immediately. I guess my body decided it didn't need a higher dose anymore. Maybe your body just doesn't need any dose and it overreacts in such a spectacular manner?

Other root causes could be taking other supplements or medications that don't agree with melatonin. Were you taking any when you experience the symptoms you described? This would be quite strange since melatonin is naturally produced in our bodies so it's a super safe substance to take. But maybe there were other ingredients in your melatonin that didn't agree with your body?

And did you try different brands of melatonin? I have my favourite ones that seem to do more for me than others. Did you also try taking different forms?

All in all, since you don't need melatonin to sleep I'd say it would be best to just ditch it. As for the virus, there are other antivirals that will help you much quicker, if you'd like me to point you to where they were discussed just let me know.
 
(Altair) What additions can be made to our vaccination protocol to better handle mRNA vaccines?

(L) Well, we just got one suggestion: heat would be very useful. I suppose there are other ways to apply heat than far infrared. Is heat in general beneficial?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) So it's not just infrared. Okay. We can do some research on that. That's...

A: Take more melatonin.

Q: (L) Take more melatonin?

(Gaby) It's an antiviral.

(L) Don't take too much, but you can take more. Okay, now Sid has a series of questions:

It is rather interesting this answer from the Cass: melatonin, after far infrared and heat in general.
Here is an article by Mercola in French and a video in English Sunlight: Optimize Health and Immunity (Light Therapy and Melatonin) by Roger Seheult that can teach us some really interesting things.

In a nutshell:
"The vast majority, 95%, of your body's melatonin is produced inside your mitochondria in response to the sun's near infrared radiation. Only 5% of melatonin is produced in your pineal gland at night.

Your mitochondria produce ATP, your body's energy currency. Reactive oxygen species (ROS) are a by-product of this ATP production. They are responsible for oxidative stress.

Melatonin eliminates the DROs that damage your mitochondria. Provided you sleep well and get plenty of sunlight during the day, your mitochondria will be bathed in melatonin, thus reducing oxidative stress."

Excerpts:

Melatonin is produced in response to sun exposure

To summarise the main finding before diving in, the vast majority of melatonin produced by your body, 95%, is actually generated inside your mitochondria in response to the sun's near infrared radiation. Only 5% of melatonin is produced in your pineal gland.

It is important to note that melatonin supplements, contrary to what you might expect, do not end up in your mitochondria where they are most needed to mitigate the damage caused by oxidative stress produced by the electron transport chain.
Melatonin has also been shown to be an important component of treatment for COVID, reducing the incidence of thrombosis and sepsis, and mortality. As Dr Roger Seheult notes, evidence suggests that sun exposure can help combat a number of respiratory infections, including IVCOD, and melatonin production in your mitochondria appears to be a key component.

Dr Roger Seheult looks at a number of pieces of evidence showing that rates of COVID around the world correlate with the solar index, or amount of sunlight beaming down on the area. The rates of positive cases are also correlated with blood levels of vitamin D. Higher blood levels correlate with a lower incidence of VaDOC and higher survival rates for hospitalised patients.

In short, vitamin D is more than likely a marker or substitute for sun exposure. But any benefits are probably due to factors other than vitamin D itself. As Dr Roger Seheult has noted, some studies of the effect of giving vitamin D to patients treated for severe VaDOC have found no benefit, even at very high doses.
In addition, research into UVA levels and COVID mortality rates found that areas of the US, UK and Italy with higher UVA also had lower COVID mortality rates. Vitamin D does not increase in response to UVA (only UVB). So something in the sun, other than vitamin D, must have a beneficial impact.

They hypothesised that nitric oxide, produced in response to UVA, might be the key, as nitric oxide has been shown to limit SARS-CoV-2 replication in vitro as well as normalise your blood pressure.

But while it's true that nitric oxide increases in response to sunlight (particularly UVA and near-infrared), Dr Roger Seheult believes that the main mechanism at work here is melatonin. This is because it is produced in response to the infrared spectrum, which makes up a much larger part of the solar spectrum than ultraviolet, and it acts at whatever angle the radiation hits the Earth.

Melatonin and sunlight are intimately linked
It is likely that near-infrared (NIR) photons stimulate the subcellular synthesis of melatonin in your mitochondria by activating cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) or NF-kB, or alternatively by stimulating the stem cells in your bone marrow. However, if you fail to expose your skin to enough near-infrared sunlight, your mitochondria will have severely depleted melatonin levels that cannot be compensated for by supplementation.

The role of melatonin in COVID
Okay, so what does this have to do with the treatment of VaDOC? For that, we need to delve into the biology a bit. Angiotensin 2 is a pro-oxidant that is converted to angiotensin 1-7, an antioxidant, by the enzyme ACE2. ACE2 is the same enzyme as the SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein that binds to enter the cell.

Angiotensin 2 raises blood pressure, while angiotensin 1-7 lowers it by relaxing your vascular system. If you have high levels of angiotensin 2, you will have more DRO in the cell, which, as mentioned, is detrimental, as it damages the machinery of the cell. Angiotensin 1-7, on the other hand, will decrease the DRO in the cell.

The problem with COVID is that when the virus binds to the cell, it deactivates the enzyme ACE2 (because the Spike protein is now bound to it). Thus, angiotensin 2 increases, angiotensin 1-7 decreases and the conversion of angiotensin 2 to angiotensin 1-7 cannot take place.

As a result, DRO increases uncontrollably inside the cell. SARS-CoV-2 infection also increases the production of white blood cells, which also increases DRO. The end result of this high oxidative stress is the formation of blood clots, which in turn leads to hypoxaemia.

Melatonin can break this destructive cycle by removing DROs and protecting your mitochondria from destruction. As Dr Roger Seheult has noted, if you don't get enough sleep at night and sunlight during the day, your mitochondria are essentially running 'hot' due to inflammation. Melatonin is the coolant that dampens the DRO in your mitochondria.

If your mitochondria are already stressed and you are contracting COVID, the additional stress can send you over the edge. If your melatonin system is working well, because you sleep well and get plenty of sunlight, you are more likely to fight off the infection without it becoming serious.

Seed oils increase your risk of COVID and sunburn
This may not seem like a big deal, but it is. Linoleic acid (LA) makes up the bulk (about 60-80%) of the omega 6 fatty acids you consume, and is a major contributor to almost all chronic diseases. While once thought to be an essential fatty acid, when consumed in excessive amounts, LA actually acts as a metabolic poison.

Optimise your health with reasonable sun exposure
Basically, what "Melatonin in the Mitochondria" has discovered is that melatonin is an ideal target for fighting mitochondrial-related diseases and cancer because it has easy access to your mitochondria and is synthesised there, where oxidative stress occurs. By reprogramming faulty glucose metabolism, melatonin can optimise mitochondrial function and inhibit cancer growth.

Remember that taking melatonin supplements will not result in increased mitochondrial melatonin production. It has to be produced close to your mitochondria and not swim up from your pineal gland. Thus, oral supplementation does not replace going outside during the day.

If you take it during the day, you're tricking your body into thinking it's nighttime, which could cause you problems. As far as we know, the best way to increase mitochondrial melatonin is to optimise your NIR exposure through regular sun exposure.

Interestingly, spending time in nature is another way to increase your IR exposure, as most green plants and trees reflect IR. This is probably why walks in the forest are so beneficial.

Together, exposure to sunlight during the day and staying in the dark at night will ensure that your mitochondria are bathed (day and night) in melatonin which reduces harmful DROs. So, as Dr Roger Seheult suggests, try to spend more time outdoors, especially if you are ill (whether it's COVID or any other respiratory infection) or fighting a chronic disease.
DeepL.
L'« hormone maîtresse » pour traiter le COVID



There is still nothing new under the sun, except the sun, because the sun...shine. 🤠
After this reading, one may wonder what could happen to our mitochondria, if some event in the near or distant future darkens the sky.
In the meantime, enjoy your tan!
 
After this reading, one may wonder what could happen to our mitochondria, if some event in the near or distant future darkens the sky.

This brings to mind people with seasonal affective disorder (SAD). This from the Mayo Clinic:
Light therapy is a way to treat seasonal affective disorder (SAD) and certain other conditions by exposure to artificial light. SAD is a type of depression that occurs at a certain time each year, usually in the fall or winter.

During light therapy, you sit or work near a device called a light therapy box. The box gives off bright light that mimics natural outdoor light.

Light therapy is thought to affect brain chemicals linked to mood and sleep, easing SAD symptoms. Using a light therapy box may also help with other types of depression, sleep disorders and other conditions. Light therapy is also known as bright light therapy or phototherapy.

Not really a fan of the Mayo Clinic, but finding an artificial light that comes as close as possible to natural sunlight would seem like a good alternative if the skies darken for extended periods of time - sort of like central Ohio most of the time (with rain)! :-P The Clinic is recommending full spectrum light:
The only requirement is sunshine–specifically ultraviolet B rays," according to Mayo Clinic website. And just as people need vitamin D to thrive, so do plants. It makes sense, therefore, that full-spectrum light bulbs–those used in light therapy to treat Season Affective Disorder–could be used to help plants grow.
But as explained in the previous post -
This is because it is produced in response to the infrared spectrum, which makes up a much larger part of the solar spectrum than ultraviolet, and it acts at whatever angle the radiation hits the Earth.
- it would seem that IR is the light one should use for supplemental exposure. I suppose if one doesn't get enough UV light due to skies darkened for months on end by volcanic ash (UV rays penetrate clouds but ash?) one must rely on Vit D3 supplements. That's assuming one can still breathe the available air. Really hope we all can avoid such a fate.

Looks like UV light gets absorbed in volcanic eruptions:
Emission rates of volcanic gases, and their relative abundances, provide valuable insights into the magma dynamics that drive volcanic activity (e.g., Malinconico Jr, 1979; Sutton et al., 2001; Oppenheimer et al., 2003; Caltabiano et al., 2004). Sulfur dioxide is the most commonly measured of these gases due to its low background atmospheric concentration and strong spectral ultraviolet absorption features (Platt et al., 2018).
[...]
There are two different radiative transfer corrections required, namely for “multiple scattering” and “light dilution” (Bobrowski et al., 2010; Kern et al., 2010). These phenomena are caused by photons interacting with molecules and particles in the air, causing them to scatter elastically (Rayleigh) or inelastically (Raman) (Figure 1). Multiple scattering occurs in volcanic plumes where large amounts of ash, water vapor or aerosol are present. With more of these particles, photons passing through a plume have a greater chance of scattering, increasing their travel distance inside the plume relative to the idealized linear path, allowing more absorption to occur. Conversely, the path length could decrease when photons cannot penetrate the center of the plume due to high opacity.
And no doubt the electric grid will be working just fine during any dramatic earth changes . . . 🥶
 
@Pearce ,
The best thing you can do for your dad is to help him get and keep his glycemy at the required limit. Sometimes you might need to be very patient and creative but also firm and supportive because the diabetic mind is nothing that you can imagine when the sugar is out of control.
Does he have a meal +exercise plan per day that corresponds to the diabetes medicine? If not he needs to get one, and you can actually do that for him if there is no diabetes nurse to do it.
Start implementing the blood sugar level strip testing. Does he have a device? If not you buy him one. He needs to test thee times a day in thefirst month to find out what foods give most and biggest sugar spikes.After that he needs to test twice a day for six months. The values are graphed and averaged and as a function of this average the treatment is prescribed. My husband does that himself and gives the spreadsheet to the diabetis doctor.
Look, I am really sorry to see you so concerned...but diabetes is not a disease,is a condition, which means that the person being in that condition or having that condition needs to live in a specific way. My husband has diabetes type 1. The foods we eat both are in majority the ones that go in his diet. That seems to workok as otherwise he gets very unhappy /snappy/grumpy or even panicked about food. It might be that your dad might not even need medication for depression and his moods to rather be produced by the blood sugar imbalance.
It is tough to be alone and have this condition.
All the best of courage and strength!
 
I don’t know if Melatonin helps me to sleep better or not, because I am always no problems with fall sleep.
But still, I have been taking melatonin every night for some years so far.
And today about 2pm, I have taken 10mg melatonin with blueberries, but, it didn’t make me want to go sleep. So, I am going to experiment this new ideas.

Melatonin is a natural anti-inflammatory that strengthens the immune system, including the liver’s personalized immune system. If the liver is sluggish and stagnant and loses its ability to create melatonin, taking supplemental melatonin can reignite the liver’s capacity to start up again. That’s right: while medical research and science associate melatonin production with the brain, it’s also one of the liver’s hormone functions to create and secrete it.

Melatonin can also act as a powerful antioxidant when taken at the same time as you eat foods that are high in antioxidants such as wild blueberries, raspberries, leafy greens, apples, sweet potato or cherries just to name a few. This combination of Melatonin and antioxidant rich foods can help stop oxidation of toxic heavy metals in the brain and helps protect the brain from Alzheimer’s, dementia, and brain tumors. The nutrients in these foods also bind onto the melatonin and make it more easily accepted by the brain and body and enhancing its medicinal sleep effects and ability to help with stress relief.

You can refer to Medical Medium Cleanse To Heal for specific supplement and dosage recommendations, including melatonin, for over 200 symptoms and conditions.
 
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Hi,

I havnt fully read the thread yet but i wanted to ask :

I am taking 10mg of melatonin each night, i didnt fell asleep the first night, how long before it start to take effect?
I remember a transcript of the cassiopaean where the C said that someone wasnt sleeping because he were adjusting to the melatonin.
So i guess I have the same problem. So how long usually does it start to take effect around 10mg?
 
Hi Romain512,
from my own experience of taking melatonin in high doses i'd recommended to lower the dose to 4-5 mg unless of course you're not trying to use it as a therapy against some serious health conditions. It depends from person to person how long it takes for them to adjust to the melatonin.

It may take a few days to a week. My suggestion will be to avoid from late afternoon onwards coffee and other neuronal excitatory drinks, supplements and so on. Before going to sleep avoid watching TV, using other technological devices emanating blue light and finally be sure to sleep in a dark room since the melatonin is most effective in a dark environment.

Just a few thoughts.
 
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