High Dose Melatonin Therapy

As melatonin helps with sleeping better, I thought I'd post this here. An interesting paper recently published:

Losing Control: Sleep Deprivation Impairs the Suppression of Unwanted Thoughts

Unwanted memories often enter conscious awareness when individuals confront reminders. People vary widely in their talents at suppressing such memory intrusions; however, the factors that govern suppression ability are poorly understood. We tested the hypothesis that successful memory control requires sleep. Following overnight sleep or total sleep deprivation, participants attempted to suppress intrusions of emotionally negative and neutral scenes when confronted with reminders. The sleep-deprived group experienced significantly more intrusions (unsuccessful suppressions) than the sleep group. Deficient control over intrusive thoughts had consequences: Whereas in rested participants suppression reduced behavioral and psychophysiological indices of negative affect for aversive memories, it had no such salutary effect for sleep-deprived participants. Our findings raise the possibility that sleep deprivation disrupts prefrontal control over medial temporal lobe structures that support memory and emotion. These data point to an important role of sleep disturbance in maintaining and exacerbating psychiatric conditions characterized by persistent, unwanted thoughts.
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In a nutshell, sleeping well plays a factor in being able to control intrusive thoughts.
 
Another interesting recent study below. In short: Melatonin is converted to a substance called AFMK and then to a substance called AMK in the brain. The researchers found that AMK appeared to be the most effective for memory improvement in mice. Researchers say this could also apply to people. Considering some data shared in this thread, I'd say this is possible.

The group of researchers at TMDU were curious about melatonin's metabolites, the molecules that melatonin is broken down into after entering the body. "We know that melatonin is converted into N1-acetyl-N2-formyl-5-methoxykynuramine (AFMK) and N1-acetyl-5-methoxykynuramine (AMK) in the brain," explains Hattori, "and we suspected that they might promote cognition." To test their hypothesis, the researchers familiarized mice to objects and gave them doses of melatonin and the two metabolites 1 hour later. Then, they tested their memory the next day. They found that memory improved after treatment, and that AMK was the most effective. All three accumulated in the hippocampal region of the brain, a region important for turning experiences into memories.

For young mice, exposure to an object three times in a day is enough for it to be remembered the next day on the novel object recognition task. In contrast, older mice behave as if both objects are new and unfamiliar, a sign of cognitive decline. However, one dose of AMK 15 min after a single exposure to an object, and older mice were able to remember the objects up to 4 days later.

Lastly, the researchers found that long-term memory formation could not be enhanced after blocking melatonin from being converted into AMK in the brain. "We have shown that melatonin's metabolite AMK can facilitate memory formation in all ages of mice," says Hattori. "Its effect on older mice is particularly encouraging and we are hopeful that future studies will show similar effects in older people. If this happens, AMK therapy could eventually be used to reduce the severity of Mild Cognitive Impairment and its potential conversion to Alzheimer's disease."
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Source of article
Paper
 
I've had to bookmark this thread after spending most of this week ruminating from the latest C's session, which was gripping as always. Getting "the thinks", as I call them, is a state that can consume your waking mind just prior to getting into bed late at night ready for sleep. This causes me a twofold problem; anti-social sleeping patterns and missed vitamin d from being out and about in daylight hours. I am a hopeless night owl, always have been. By age 11 I was regularly up till 3am at night, either watching hammer horror films or watching south american football, which would always be on after midnight. A couple of my mates in school were the same, and we formed a kind of secret club where only true initiates were welcome. So funny looking back!:-D

So I've just taken a delivery of my order before christmas, of over a years worth of melatonin (480 3mg tablets), it finally arrived after a 6 week wait. I'm going to hopefully use the melatonin to help turn me more into a morning person. I think 3mg is a fine dosage for a person who can get caught up in thought patterns for 3hrs a night prior to falling asleep. My other plan is to put reading down for the last 2 hrs of waking time late at night. Listen to an album or watch a dvd instead, see if there's any difference. I just thought "well hey, the C's have said this is one big school for infinite lessons, so let's just experiment more, with guidelines.". Sounds like a good plan to me, and I'll use my morning time better, reading both books and on sott/forum. I'm out of work at the moment and need a more driven like approach to my days. So here goes, I'll be beginning this new regime tonight and I plan to awaken 2hrs rearlier than usual, until eventually I'm a fully fledged morning person for the first time in 35 years.

This is going to be an interesting struggle I think. I've been frustrated by my lack of impetus in recent times. I've not been idle though. I've drawn out a synopsis for 30-odd short stories, which I'm beginning to flesh out. It's been a rewarding hobby in fact, I've been developed these ideas over the last 5-6 years or so. The novelist Will Self has advised prospective writers to find their golden hours somewhere between 4am and 12pm. It's up to you how you find them. He gave us good advice in Uni back in 1996, plus he's a sharp thinker. So I'm looking to try new things in my life, a kind of strategic re-arrangement. Here's hoping the melatonin helps me out a bit here, cause I have the seeds of a kind of uptight insomnia brewing at the moment, and I'm not satisfied with my efforts of late.

Only I can change things, and if I fail, then fail better than before...:cool2:
 
Just an update on taking the melatonin new batch for the first time last night. I've been surviving off an old batch, but tried the new ones last night, and I slept really well for about 7hrs. Had dreams but can't remember them unfortunately. I have a notebook and pen set aside on my bedside cabinet for future nights. Always worked for me in the 90's, lol.:-D Pre-internet brain development skills were old school and they proved to be hardy earners if you learned your craft. Hell, I'd say everyone on this forum has honed to a certain degree at least, otherwise the inner work wouldn't even resonate. We've all traversed a basic epoch together in reading and understanding the Wave series at the very least, so that's a closer connection than anyone I know in social life. A sobering thought about respecting limitation is what comes to mind.

What I've noticed back in Wales this week is just how interested people are in me speaking positively about melatonin these days. I've slipped it into many conversations and people are very interested, wondering why the NHS isn't supporting this, having to import from the US, etc. I've been honest about the benefits. Deeper, more satisfying sleep, relaxed muscles, just all round wellbeing. And folks I know have been engaged and interested, really positive news this. Even my brother and my mum have asked me how they can get and try this, so naturally I've sent them good info.

It just seems like a small liberation at the moment, and I think the experiment needed a little further probing by me, so I went a little further. First a little context; I was once prescribed valium for a 3 week basis due to sleepless nights and daytime anxiety. They'd offer me none after that cos they knew it was very addictive. Anyway, living with tension and inner anxiety, I chose to try a 3mg tablet this afternoon, just to see if it had a similar effect. In short, it did, it worked like a charm, and it didn't make me drowsy like the night one. I guess you just need to feel tired in order to feel the night time effect. I won't make that a daily procedure but it's good to know I can manage anxiety in a new way, with nearly immediate effect. So that's just a small side-effect I've discovered this week. There is no longer any real need for valium so long as melatonin remains available.

I do look forward to being able to recall my dreams though, I'm missing that at the moment.
 
SlipNet said:
Anyway, living with tension and inner anxiety, I chose to try a 3mg tablet this afternoon, just to see if it had a similar effect.
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I think it's better to take it in the evening. Otherwise your body might get confused if there's melatonin in the system when there's still light around you. Also notice in this post: "Although melatonin is a potential adjunctive agent in the treatment of cancer and immune deficiency, poorly timed administration can produce opposite effects. Melatonin injections given in the morning stimulate tumor growth,[46,148] whereas the same doses in midafternoon have no effect but in the evening have a retarding effect." I take it an hour or so before sleeping. For anxiety, you could try Valerian (herb) supplement.

SlipNet said:
and I slept really well for about 7hrs [...] I do look forward to being able to recall my dreams though, I'm missing that at the moment.
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Glad you're sleeping better! Don't worry about recalling the dreams, I think that'll come in time, or maybe before sleep you can do the Prayer of the Soul with a few pipe breaths and ask your higher self if you can remember your dreams or just focus on the intent to remember or something along those lines. Doesn't hurt to try! But yeah, I think it'll come back naturally. :-)
 
Oxajil said:
I think it's better to take it in the evening. Otherwise your body might get confused if there's melatonin in the system when there's still light around you. Also notice in this post: "Although melatonin is a potential adjunctive agent in the treatment of cancer and immune deficiency, poorly timed administration can produce opposite effects. Melatonin injections given in the morning stimulate tumor growth,[46,148] whereas the same doses in midafternoon have no effect but in the evening have a retarding effect."
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I'm working in night shifts and i'm always taking like 5 mg of melatonin in the morning before going to sleep. Of course the room is dark and i can sleep pretty well for 7-8 hours easily.

Some time ago I remember reading on the following thread about possibile negative side effects of melatonin if taken in the morning though if i'm not mistaken Gaby mentioned that it shouldn't be a problem if you are taking it before going to sleep in the morning.

So i was wandering about the study from the above related to the negative side effects of melatonin if taken in the morning, it concerns only the cases in which the individual stays awake after taking the melatonin in the morning or it concerns as well those ones who are taking it before going to sleep in the morning, like in my case?

I hope my message is not too confusing.
Thanks in advance for any feedback. :-)
 
Oxajil said:
I think it's better to take it in the evening. Otherwise your body might get confused if there's melatonin in the system when there's still light around you. Also notice in this post: "Although melatonin is a potential adjunctive agent in the treatment of cancer and immune deficiency, poorly timed administration can produce opposite effects. Melatonin injections given in the morning stimulate tumor growth,[46,148] whereas the same doses in midafternoon have no effect but in the evening have a retarding effect." I take it an hour or so before sleeping. For anxiety, you could try Valerian (herb) supplement.
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Right, I really needed to read this. That explains why valium still has a market then, I really was beginning to wonder about that today. I'll not take another daytime tab again, not worth the risk. I'll look into valerian products and report back.

Oxajil said:
Glad you're sleeping better! Don't worry about recalling the dreams, I think that'll come in time, or maybe before sleep you can do the Prayer of the Soul with a few pipe breaths and ask your higher self if you can remember your dreams or just focus on the intent to remember or something along those lines. Doesn't hurt to try! But yeah, I think it'll come back naturally. :-)
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I have an open dialogue with an inner voice which doesn't define itself. I pray maybe about 2 days a week, so perhaps I could do more. I've had some interesting dreams about study and friendship which I could write about actually. Thanks for the advice/reassurance!
 
Andrian said:
I'm working in night shifts and i'm always taking like 5 mg of melatonin in the morning before going to sleep. Of course the room is dark and i can sleep pretty well for 7-8 hours easily.
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It's like an inverted circadian rhythm if you work at night. Studies are ongoing and last time I looked into it, melatonin is a good option for shift workers. Perhaps you can ask if you feel better since introducing melatonin to your regime or not. Night shifts are very hard on the body and if melatonin counteracts some of those ill-effects, then that has to be kept in mind when reading research where they found that early melatonin might not be a good idea. I remember reading about it, but I was under the impression that they were not shift workers. That is, they slept at night.
 
Gaby said:
It's like an inverted circadian rhythm if you work at night. Studies are ongoing and last time I looked into it, melatonin is a good option for shift workers. Perhaps you can ask if you feel better since introducing melatonin to your regime or not. Night shifts are very hard on the body and if melatonin counteracts some of those ill-effects, then that has to be kept in mind when reading research where they found that early melatonin might not be a good idea. I remember reading about it, but I was under the impression that they were not shift workers. That is, they slept at night.
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Thank you kindly Gaby for the feedback,
I think in my case the melatonin helps me resting well and recovering from the night shifts, I'm taking it in the morning before going to sleep for about a year now so I'd say that I haven't noticed any negative side effects.

I will continue taking it in the morning while observing how I feel, for the moment it's the best option for me in order to recover from the night shifts.
 
Oxajil said:
For anxiety, you could try Valerian (herb) supplement.
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Apologies for taking this thread off point, just wanted to say thanks for the advice on valerian. I read a little about it last night and then ordered 2 jars of the stuff, should get them in the post by Monday. Getting back on point, I had another really good night's sleep after a 3mg tab. This will be a nightly procedure from now on, I'm very pleased with the results from melatonin, it's a tremendous supplement. Hopefully I'll get a good response from the valerian tabs as well, just got to wait for them to arrive now.
 
SlipNet said:
Apologies for taking this thread off point, just wanted to say thanks for the advice on valerian. I read a little about it last night and then ordered 2 jars of the stuff, should get them in the post by Monday. Getting back on point, I had another really good night's sleep after a 3mg tab. This will be a nightly procedure from now on, I'm very pleased with the results from melatonin, it's a tremendous supplement. Hopefully I'll get a good response from the valerian tabs as well, just got to wait for them to arrive now.
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I'm glad the melatonin is helpful! On valerian, do note that a low dosage is recommended for anxiety. You could maybe experiment with one or two a day during the day at mealtimes. You could read more on it here. I don't know how severe your anxiety is, but you can also think about doing the three stage breathing or doing the pipe breath around 12 times in the morning or any other time of the day that suits you (or when you start to feel anxious), on a daily basis or every other day. This thread might also be helpful.
 
Oxajil said:
On valerian, do note that a low dosage is recommended for anxiety. You could maybe experiment with one or two a day during the day at mealtimes.
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Thanks for the tips!:cool2: They came in the post earlier than expected, so I've had the valerian for the last 2 days, and it's like a very mild relaxation feeling that I get from first impressions. Always best to avoid putting pills/supplements into an empty stomach. I've done that before and suffered later. Oh, and the melatonin is a godsend, finally my twisting and turning at night has come to an end. I'm asleep within half an hour now; before it was taking me 3/4 hours to get to sleep, just awful. The amounts of times I've been up smoking a cig at 4am just cos I'm stressed out being unable to sleep. And now I've found the solution. Thanks again for your advice, Oxajil, the quality of my life has improved from these supplements.
 
SlipNet said:
so I've had the valerian for the last 2 days, and it's like a very mild relaxation feeling that I get from first impressions.
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Added this to provide clarity on this point. It's not like valium, in that you don't feel like you've been dulled, you retain your sharpness on the valerian pills I've tried. My elder brother used to get 20 pills of valium a week from his gp because of anxiety, and he used to give 4 each week to me, so sadly I know what it's like to rely on valium for well being, though I was never addicted to them. My brother, however, was, but he was a mild user. I've seen footage of Scottish men taking 10 pills at a time, they were just shutting out reality. Very sad to see.
 
Just in case it hasn't been stated for sleep disorders before, I'll add this, because it was a mistake I used to make frequently. Don't drink coffee after 3pm, D'oh!:nuts: Give yourself a decent window of time to process things, and also with the melatonin I think green tea is the perfect late evening drink. That's next on my order list. I've cut my coffee intake to 2 cups a day, and I feel much the better for it.
 
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