High Dose Melatonin Therapy

Huxley said:
Gaby said:
Thought I would share my melatonin experiment... What seems to work the best is to nap after my night shifts. Then take melatonin for the night after the night shift. That will help me sleep profoundly and I can recover easier.

If I take melatonin on a consistent basis, then at some point it won't work. I would wake up every two hours or so. If I take melatonin sporadically, only when strictly needed, it works like a charm.

After listening to the Health and Wellness show on the importance of sleep ( http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sottradionetwork/2015/07/17/the-health-and-wellness-show--17-july-2015--the-importance-of-sleep ), strangely enough on a night shift :scared:, i think i need to start implementing some form of supplement to get me through my week of nights.

Its becoming an option for me now to purchase some melatonin and cycle it on a 3 week cycle. So 1 week on (5 days) and two weeks off. But in all honesty, i dont want to become accustomed to the use of it given my young age, 23, and the other choices on the market.

Moving into a new property, we still havnt got blackout blinds fitted in the bed room but is on top priority. Also im purchasing some orange/red tinted glasses to wear when coming home from work to reduce my sunlight exposure so i can feel abit more tired. When im home and get in bed, i dont have trouble falling asleep - but this is due to the exhaustion itself from working a night shift.

Apart from the sleep hygiene improvements i can make, im looking for something to aid in the overall mood im in while on nights. So instead of melatonin, im thinking of cycling 5htp for the week of nights to target my mood instead of my sleep.
There was also some natural cortisol reducing supplements that can be taken along with some natural herbal tea's and essential oils that aid in sleep. Going to give the show another listen to note down the ones mentioned and check them out, unfortunately i didnt have a notepad handy.

So just looking for any advice in regards to melatonin alternatives, as im looking for things that will not help me get to sleep, but help my quality of sleep and mood when i awake.


I'm experimenting with Rhodiola rosea now and it seems to work. I take one capsule in the afternoon around 5 p.m. half an hour before my last meal.
 
I've taken melatonin once or twice a few months ago to see what would happen, but no noticeable effects. So last night I took a 6mg dose just to experiment. Result: I had the most vivid astral projection/lucid dream experience and it was awesome! ;D Like the C's said, it seems to provide a boost to your psychic abilities. I should also add that I've been diligently meditating (sitting practice during the day and also while going to bed at night) almost every day, so that may be why it is working in the first place.

Now on to my experience. It's pretty long (sorry about that), but I've started to write a dream journal with as much detail as I can remember. I wrote this out as soon as I woke up after the 'incident'. Excuse the formatting and typos please.

Here it goes:
Strangest Dream/OOBE: Night of Aug 24. Woke up from dream at 1.30am. Went to bed around 11.40pm. Took melatonin 6mg 30 minutes before going to bed. State of mind prior to sleeping was as usual.

Events (sequential order in that world)
1. Someone/something helping me to project/transition.
  • This part is the most difficult to remember. Don’t really remember how I went out of my body
    Vague recall of ‘beings’ helping me out. They felt ethereal.
    Next thing I know I’m somewhere else! The realization that I am not in my physical body made me hyper excited! I felt like an explorer in uncharted waters..

2. Old House
  • Some old house, was dark, but not scary. Was night time, house with many rooms, (probably an upper floor too?).
    Meeting my ‘mentor’, a guy who lives in this house. Gave me the impression of being an old man, don’t remember his face clearly. I ‘came into’ this house after my transition.
    I was very excited about being out I asked him a million questions. His demeanor was that of an old man trying to help but dealing with an overenthusiastic student. But he did give me a lot of tips. Also told me a little about that world and its rules, none of which I remember after awakening.
    I was following him everywhere like a puppy, and he was trying to make me sit in one place. As he walked (or floated?), I barged in with him to one of his rooms. He had a creepy daughter, sitting in the dark. But she was friendly to me and me to her. There was an adjoining room that opened to his room and it was closed shut. I wanted to go in there too, but he strictly warned me no to. I had the impression something big and dangerous (like a yeti) was behind the door, so I quickly backed away.
3. Large carnival/celebration
  • Day time, clear and pleasant weather.
    Major celebration going on, not unlike the scene from KOTR. People walking around, it was like a carnival.
    Still in my excited state, I was walking around talking to everyone I could see.
    Tried flying and a few similar things since I knew I wasn’t in my physical body. Can’t recall success or failure in this
4. Vaguely remember talking to random people. Also took part in some of their activities/missions (not sure exactly what – don’t recall) that required use of senses/faculties that were common knowledge to them, but not to me (mind reading for example). Vaguely recall being successful in some, at which point I was very proud of myself, even more so because the people thought I was a ‘local’ of that world. In some situations I had to tell them I was actually only a day old in their world. Ofcourse I knew that only a few hours had passed since I came to this ‘city’, but I somehow felt I shouldn’t tell them that. Most people I told that to were impressed I could do these things considering I didn’t have much time to learn them.

5. Failed in some of these activities miserably, leading them to look at me in a very strange way. “how can you not know how to do this???!!” they thought I should be like them (probably looked like them) and also probably thought I was a retard.

6. Still at the carnival, this Chinese lady approaches me, very petite wearing some kind of light green silk flowing dress up to her thighs. The impression I got from her was that of a smooth talking sales girl who is only after the next sales deal. Was urging me to buy/consider something but I wasn’t interested. Moved on talking to more people and exploring the carnival.

7. Indian girl whom I met at the carnival
  • Looking for my next victim whom I could talk to death, found this very indian looking girl wearing an expensive looking cream colored saree with broad embroidered borders, with a matching clutch in her hand, wearing matching white high heeled shoes. Looked like someone important. She gave me a glance and I did a double take, then went to her. She looked mid-30s, neatly dressed, make up.
    She said, I think I know you from somewhere, have we met? I said I am not sure, but you seem to be familiar to me too. Noticed she had a 10 year old looking girl child with her, her hair tied neatly into 2 ponytails, smiling in the background.
    We started walking together, talking and passed an archway that looked either like it was the entrance of a church or mortuary (huge grill arch gates in some kind of floral design) – I couldn’t decide what. A man passed by and I asked her is that your husband. She laughed and said no, let me take you to him. He approached ahead, a man with a white beard, looking in his 60s. We talked, he was very friendly.
    After a while, I told him I have to leave as I had a lot of exploring to do. He took me back to the main road through a back alley, quite cleanly kept. We parted ways and I was on my own again, still excited to explore!

8. As I was crossing the street in a small intersection, remember thinking if I ran into a speeding car would it hit me or not (or would it hurt?). Turned to the left to see Chinese girl who I met at the carnival, also crossing the street, leaving the carnival. It looked like the carnival was over and people were slowly drifting off. She started her sales pitch about something again, and I refused her and moved on again.

9. Remember (vaguely) talking to 2 friends having (what looks like) a beer and we strike up a conversation. At this point I ask them to tell me something interesting about this place since I am new here (and only a day old, I told them). Not sure if it was in the carnival or after I left that scene.
  • They said, everyone in this city has to go get their ‘time punched’, every day. Every punch was a reset of the time they would have left in the day. I sensed that I probably would need to go there to later in the day. The way to do that was also very specific – go to the train station, take a particular train, go through a series of travellators (down) into the basement and you’ll find him. There might be a queue and you may have to wait.
    I thought that was weird. What kind of people live like this, I thought. Anyhow I politely excused myself and thanked them for the additional information. I also had to tell them I was just a few hours old in their world.
10. Walking through the city, I looked up at the sun through the trees, shining brightly. Felt like late afternoon. Felt like new york city. Bustling, busy and full of people from different races.
  • Passed the ‘Caucasian’ quarter, through roadside shops selling stuff. Walked until I reached the ‘indian’ quarter, with indian shops and people dressed accordingly.
    As I walked, if I started into people’s faces long enough they would change into someone else. Very confusing. I remember trying to will the face to change to people I know (back in the physical world) as a game, but it never worked. Have to learn a lot about this place and its rules, I thought to myself.
    Suddenly the indian quarter ended and it seemed like I was in some seedier part of town, the color of the scene changing to bluish. A few guys from all directions suddenly encircled me, recognizing I was not a ‘local' resident of that world. At first I lied that I was, but that didn’t work. Seems they wanted what was left of the time for me in that day so they could increase theirs. I sensed that if they took it away then I would be back into my body. I tried to bargain with them but they didn’t listen. Started to beat me up, but it didn’t really hurt. In the process, I started to get furious and was about to hit them back when I realized that I had left the scene.

11. Felt myself drifting back and the next thing I feel is my physical body again and a strange sensation in my lower left abdomen, approximately near my kidney. I felt that, that is where I got hit the hardest and it transferred into my physical as a strange fuzzy feeling. But it went away in a minute.

12. I woke up, fully awake and wishing I had been a little more street smart.
Sensations in the ‘other’ world.
• Physical: Physically fine, feeling great actually.
• Mental: Very sound, can reason and think clearly, know that I am not in my body. Trying my best to prolong the experience as much as I can. Can also remember the literature I had read on the subject while in my physical body. But didn’t stop to think if I could be dreaming. I knew I was not, and my body was sleeping somewhere else. Probably has to do with things I don’t remember at this moment that made me so sure.
• Emotional: Exhilarated, thrilled. Like a whole new world has opened up to me. Felt like an explorer in a strange land. In hindsight it looks like a got a little too carried away, like a kid in a candy store. Made some stupid decisions (see below).

Parting thoughts & analysis
• I astral projected into a different world, with different rules. People were generally like in the physical world, but they had additional ‘super sixth senses’ (like ESP for example) that we don’t have. The technology of the place seemed to be set somewhere in the near future of our world. Attitudes of people I met were generally friendly.
• The change of scene and how it happened – don’t remember. But I have the distinct impression it was my own choice and effort.
• That world itself had a peculiar quality. It was solid, and not at the same time. For example, a car passing by the street looks and feels just like in the physical, but if you turned your gaze somewhere else and then looked back for one second, it has now transformed into a bus.
• So things seemed to change if your mind was pre-occupied. Focus of thoughts and feelings was very important to maintain stability of the outside world.
• The passage of time was unremarkable. I had a clear sense of time passing just like in the physical world. But I also sensed that the longer I was able to prolong my stay in that world, the more I would learn. The entire experience after the ‘house’ scene felt like a training exercise. It may be I went to the subsequent scenes to learn something specific, being guided by the old man.
• Time was money in that world. The attack on me by those thugs and my previous conversations with the 2 guys proved that. The ‘distribution’ of time to the population was by some central authority, and I sensed that ‘he’ was quite powerful.
• I feel like this is not even half of what happened, rest is fuzzy. Memory recall could be better. In the transition into this reality from the other one, some of the experiences were lost.
• Looking at the my room now as I type (physically), slight bleed through effect for a short while. The things/objects in the world that we take for granted (like the coffee table in the living room that is always there) as solid suddenly look like they might ‘shift’ or morph into something else.
• Mind is unusually clear, no thoughts chatter. Ability to articulate in my mind clearly than before. This only lasted an hour or so though.
 
This came out from Univadis today (mainstream medical news service):

Migraine prevention: melatonin 3 mg better than amitriptyline 25 mg

16 May 16
Clinical Essentials from J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry
CURATED BY
Laurie Barclay, MD

Takeaway
Melatonin 3 mg is as effective as and more tolerable than amitriptyline 25 mg for migraine prevention.
Study design
After a 4-wk baseline phase, 196 participants (aged 18-65 y, with migraine with or without aura, 2-8 attacks/mo) were randomly assigned to receive placebo, amitriptyline 25 mg, or melatonin 3 mg.
178 patients took study medication and were followed for 12 wk.

Key results

Mean headache frequency reduction (primary endpoint) was 2.7 migraine headache days for melatonin, 2.2 for amitriptyline (P=.19), and 1.1 for placebo (P=.009).
Patients receiving melatonin (54.4%) vs amitriptyline (39.1%) had more than 50% reduction in migraine frequency (P<.05).
Tolerability was better for melatonin vs amitriptyline.
There were 46 adverse events (none serious) reported with amitriptyline, 16 with melatonin, and 17 with placebo.
Weight decreased with melatonin, increased slightly with placebo, and increased significantly with amitriptyline.

Encouraging to see that this is being studied and taken seriously.
 
This therapy was recently brought to our attention and there seems to be so many positive things about it, and it is relatively inexpensive, that I thought I would share a few links here to articles about it.







Here's something interesting:
The acute toxicity of melatonin as seen in both animal and human studies is extremely low. Melatonin may cause minor adverse effects, such as headache, insomnia, rash, upset stomach, and nightmares. In animals, an LD50 (lethal dose for 50% of the subjects) could not be established. Even 800 mg/kg bodyweight (high dose) was not lethal.[138] Studies of human subjects given varying doses of melatonin (1–6.6 g/day) for 30–45 days, and followed with an elaborate battery of biochemical tests to detect potential toxicity, have concluded that, aside from drowsiness, all findings were normal at the end of the test period.[139,140]


Melatonin is a ubiquitous natural neurotransmitter-like compound produced primarily by the pineal gland. This agent is involved in numerous aspects of the biological and physiologic regulation of body functions. The role of endogenous melatonin in circadian rhythm disturbances and sleep disorders is well established. Some studies have shown that melatonin may also be effective in breast cancer, fibrocystic breast diseases, and colon cancer. Melatonin has been shown to modify immunity, the stress response, and certain aspects of the aging process; some studies have demonstrated improvements in sleep disturbances and “sundowning” in patients with Alzheimer's disease. The antioxidant role of melatonin may be of potential use for conditions in which oxidative stress is involved in the pathophysiologic processes. The multiplicity of actions and variety of biological effects of melatonin suggest the potential for a range of clinical and wellness-enhancing uses. This review summarizes the physiology of melatonin and discusses the potential therapeutic uses of melatonin.

Melatonin is a widely occurring neurotransmitter-like compound derived primarily from the pineal gland. It is also produced in a number of other areas, for example the gastrointestinal tract.[1–3] Once labeled as a master hormone, it has been found to be involved in numerous aspects of biological and physiologic regulation.
 
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Thanks for posting - fascinating stuff!

What I found interesting is that melatonin seems to use the glucose transporter to get inside of the cell. Which could mean that a ketogenic diet could significantly increase the amount of melatonin the cell is able to gobble up, as it doesn’t have to compete with glucose. And at the same time it also means that melatonin could potentially compete with vitamin C absorption into the cell. In that case it probably would be prudent to stagger the doses to minimize them interfering with each other.
 
Because of extreme light sensitivity and a lot of other eye issues, I do not go outside without sunglasses, nor do I stand by windows unless it is very dim out so I do not get direct sun(light) into my eyes. I was told (and take with a grain of salt but it makes sense) by an energy reader that my body is hardly making melotonin, and to take 3 mg of sublingual melatonin before bed and also another 3 mg time-release tablet to try and keep me asleep throughout the night (I wake up about 5-6 times each night). It doesn't work so I upped the sublingual dose before bed to 5 mg and I still wake up. I already sleep in a dark room, have a humidifier, use earplugs, stay away from electronics, and have tried every sleep trick and supplement known to man. ;-D

Perhaps I should try taking a higher a dose of melatonin at night? Or maybe start taking some during the day also?
 
Or maybe start taking some during the day also?

According to the article Laura posted above, that might be counterproductive.

There is pretty amazing information concerning depression, cancer, etc. but here are some concepts to keep in mind for those with autoimmune diseases:


Melatonin antagonizes several effects of exogenous corticoids: immune depression[28] and hypercatabolism, thymic involution, and adrenal suppression.[29] These findings have led to the suggestion that melatonin might work as an antiadrenocortical or antistress factor.[29] The melatonin/corticoid relationship is significant because chronic hypercortisolemia has been linked to several aspects of aging and age-associated phenomena, including glucose intolerance, atherogenesis, impaired immune function, and cancer.[30]

In addition to high absolute levels of corticoids, disorganization of the normal rhythm of corticoid release is also pathogenic. Corticoids are normally high in the early morning and daytime, and low at night. Properly timed exogenous melatonin may entrain, or reorganize, this critical endocrine rhythm, resulting in long-term systemic benefit. Indeed, the immune-enhancing and anticorticoid effects of melatonin, or putative mediators of melatonin action, appear to depend on nocturnal administration.[28,31] This may represent an integral immune-recovery mechanism by which melatonin acts as a kind of buffer against the harmful effects of stress on immune homeostasis.[28]

Beta-adrenoceptor blockers, which depress melatonin secretion, exert immunosuppressive effects, but only when given in the evening.[32,33] This is when blood melatonin (and the immunoenhancing effect of melatonin) is highest. Exogenous melatonin reverses beta-blocker-induced immunosuppression and enhances immune parameters in animals. A preliminary report of patients with AIDS who took melatonin 20 mg daily in the evening revealed uneven but generally beneficial effects on immune parameters.[34] It has been recommended that the dose be timed not only periodically within each day (at night only) but also periodically within the month, with treatment periods of 3–4 weeks, followed by a week-long “washout” period.[33]

Immunomodulatory effects of melatonin were also observed recently in healthy subjects and patients with bronchial asthma.[35] Melatonin increased production of interleukin (IL)-1, IL-6, and tumor necrosis factor-alpha, indicating the possibility of an adverse effect of exogenous melatonin in patients with asthma. On the other hand, in a model of adjuvant-induced arthritis, both prophylactic and therapeutic melatonin administrations inhibited the inflammatory response.[36] This inhibition was accompanied by enhanced thymocyte proliferation and IL-2 production by melatonin. In another animal study, melatonin was shown to possess both cellular and humoral immunoenhancing effects, and immune responses were augmented even in the absence of previous immunosuppression.[37] Melatonin-receptor immunoreactivity has also been detected in the human eye,[38] the physiologic function of which remains unclear.

Predictably, melatonin-induced corticoid antagonism and immune enhancement may not always be desirable. Melatonin should be used cautiously, if at all, in patients with autoimmune conditions and in those with known or suspected adrenocortical insufficiency. The effects of melatonin on the immune system are complex, occasionally contradictory, and depend on several factors, including the dose of melatonin, the immune status of the animal (as well as its age, sex, and species), the season during which the immune system is studied, circadian rhythm of immunity, pineal gland status, and presence of a stressful condition.[39]

[...]

Studies linking melatonin loss to age-related phenomena and the case for melatonin as an antiaging substance have been highlighted in review articles.[9,129] One proponent of this hypothesis suggests that “the Melatonin Deficiency Syndrome is perhaps the basic mechanism through which aging changes can be explained.”[129] Indeed, some believe that the data thus far support the possibility that supplemental melatonin may be beneficial.[130]

An experimental study found significant declines in plasma melatonin levels in aged ring doves.[131] In addition, the capacity of the animals for ingestion and destruction of Candida albicans and phagocytosis was reduced by aging and restored by exogenous administration of melatonin.

Melatonin levels decline with age in humans,[132] and the nocturnal melatonin peak is almost completely lost.[133] Because of the close reciprocal relation of melatonin and corticoids, this loss of melatonin rhythmicity may be responsible for the pituitary/adrenal axis disinhibition that has been described as a characteristic of aging. The adrenals of elderly humans are apparently hypersensitive to adrenocorticotropic hormone, and midnight corticoid levels (low in youth) are markedly elevated in old age.[134] The effects of melatonin on both the release of corticoids and their peripheral effects, the pathogenic conditioning influence of corticoid excess, and the phasic inhibitory influence of melatonin on the pituitary/adrenal axis have been discussed. Modification of corticoid-related phenomena could explain much of melatonin's apparent antiaging and other beneficial actions.

Despite the evidence linking lowered levels of melatonin with aging, the decline may not be so dramatic in reality. That is why melatonin cannot be unequivocally recognized as a substance that delays aging, although some of its actions may be beneficial to the process of aging.[135]

[...]

ADDED:
Although melatonin is a potential adjunctive agent in the treatment of cancer and immune deficiency, poorly timed administration can produce opposite effects. Melatonin injections given in the morning stimulate tumor growth,[46,148] whereas the same doses in midafternoon have no effect but in the evening have a retarding effect. And although some people with depression may suffer from a “low melatonin syndrome,”[27] melatonin administration that unduly prolongs the nocturnal melatonin rise, or that is given throughout the day, may exacerbate SAD[82] and bipolar and classic depression.[83] Finally, animal studies have shown that moderately large doses of melatonin (equivalent in one study to about 30 mg in adult humans) increased light-induced damage to retinal photoreceptors.[149]
 
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I read the NCBI paper carefully and it appears that it is best to start taking the doses in the afternoon, at least, and then take several before bedtime. Like starting with 10 mg at 3 pm, 10 at 6, 10 at 9 pm. Then, the next day, double the dose, and go up to say 50 mg each dose. They say do something like this for 3 or 4 weeks on and then take a week off. But that's for severe things like AIDS, so maybe less severe conditions would require only a week or so? There are a lot of papers listed as sources for that one, but I haven't read them. But it sure seems that a lot of things can get fixed pretty easily this way.
 
Okay, I have tried CBD and have taken it for a long time but it does not help me sleep. I have even got the CBD with melatonin in it and certain types specifically formulated to help you sleep.

Also, I do have autoimmune issues so perhaps I shouldn't be messing with melatonin at all.
 
Okay, I have tried CBD and have taken it for a long time but it does not help me sleep. I have even got the CBD with melatonin in it and certain types specifically formulated to help you sleep.

Also, I do have autoimmune issues so perhaps I shouldn't be messing with melatonin at all.

Well, if it was me, knowing what all you've tried and been through, I would sure try it, but start slow, like I said above.
 
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