High strangeness? Large black panther spotted climbing a fence in UK

[Keyhole]

_http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2015/05/26/panther-type-big-cat-spotted-climbing-telford-fence/

A panther-type big cat spotted climbing Telford fence

A big cat has been spotted in Telford climbing a fence in a garden - and people who saw the animal claim it could be a panther.

It is the latest reported case of a big cat roaming the town – although none have been backed up by photographs.

Connor Leivers and a friend said they were walking back from Muxton to Donnington when they spotted an unusually large jet black cat with glowing eyes.

Connor claims they saw the mysterious feline on its rear legs climbing a fence on Marshbrook Way before they ran off in fear.


Connor said: “I would describe it as having a long thin tail, jet black, and had yellow reflective eyes.

“This could be a very large concern for a lot of people.

“The cat didn’t need to jump up, it reached the top without effort and it also made a loud sound, too loud for it to have been anything small like a domestic cat. What we also thought was strange was that it started climbing up the back of the house, at this moment me and my friend ran and we didn’t see it again afterwards.

“It was an unusually large cat-like animal, it was jet black and its eye were glowing.”

Sightings of big cats across Shropshire and Mid Wales have sparked intense debate for years.

There are those who believe pumas and panthers roam the countryside and others who say that without evidence the rumours amount to nothing more than a tall tale.

CCTV cameras captured this image of a suspected big cat that was on the prowl around Blockleys’ brick stockyard in Telford, back in in 1999

It comes after the Shropshire Star revealed that there were 14 reported sightings to Dyfed-Powys Police in the past five years. And numerous claims of seeing big cats in Shropshire, according to figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

From large paw prints in the snow to a lamb mauled by a “panther” and a “puma” in a field, alleged sightings have taken place in Telford, Oswestry, Meifod and Llanidloes.

Big cats have roamed Britain for hundreds of years, according to believers.

Stories of big cats go back to the 1960s and 1970s when it was legal and fashionable to keep exotic animals as pets

 

[Joe]

Another one here. What has been eating sheep in Cumbria? Scientist is ‘99pc sure’ it’s a panther

There have been many such sightings in the UK and elsewhere for many, many years. So this is nothing new in that respect. However, the article mentions that DNA samples were taken and showed fox and "panthera genus" DNA. Interesting to consider that this might be evidence that the DNA of other dimensional window fallers is the same as panthers, leopards, tigers or lions.

analysis revealed there to be two non-ovine sources of DNA on the ravaged sheep remains – one from a fox and one from the Panthera genus. This group of animals includes panthers, leopards, tigers and lions.

 

[Ben]

Another one here. What has been eating sheep in Cumbria? Scientist is ‘99pc sure’ it’s a panther

There have been many such sightings in the UK and elsewhere for many, many years. So this is nothing new in that respect. However, the article mentions that DNA samples were taken and showed fox and "panthera genus" DNA. Interesting to consider that this might be evidence that the DNA of other dimensional window fallers is the same as panthers, leopards, tigers or lions.

From that article - the DNA sequence differed from Panthera pardus, the leopard (the melanistic form is often called black panther) by just one base pair. That was the reason that the Panthera genus rather than a species was identified, but the scientist suspects degradation of the sample occurred. This species is the best fit for for almost all big cat sightings I have read about in the UK. It's also the only one in that genus, with the possible exception of jaguar, which stands a realistic chance of (mostly) evading detection long term, in my view.

 

[Joe]

Maybe I'm missing somenthign, but I can't see how a large black cat could live in the UK, preying on livestock, and avoid detection for very long. There are very few real forests left in the UK, and most of those are well-frequented by people. The UK, in general, is a fairly densely populated. And England, where most of these sightings happen, is the 2nd most densely populated nation in Europe.

 

[Miracle]

FWIW, I saw a mountain lion (technically a cougar, not a panther but often called a panther) once. I was helping a friend clean out a chicken coop during the winter on his hops farm out in the middle of nowhere Virginia surrounded by national forest. Naturally, the chickens were disturbed by being thrown out into the winter cold while we cleaned out their coop and were clucking their distressed sounds. My buddy turned to me and said, "What is that!" while pointing down towards the winding gravel driveway. Lo and behold, about 100 yards away and clear as day, I said, "That is a mountain loin!". He was initially in disbelief but he stared at it for a bit and eventually agreed. A few moments later, the mountain lion spotted us, gave up on it query of distressed chickens and walked into the woods.

The reason I share this story is because I think explains how elusive panthers can be. My buddy was a long time resident of the rural county and a life long hunter. Everyone in the county he lived in was born and raised to be competent outdoorsmen. Ostensibly, mountain lions do not exist in Virginia. There have been unconfirmed sightings, but that is it.

There have been unconfirmed sightings in Albemarle, Alleghany, Amherst, Augusta, Bath, Bedford, Botetourt, Bland, Brunswick, Craig, Fauquier, Floyd, Franklin, Giles, Grayson, Highland, Louisa, Nelson, Orange, Page, Rappahannock, Roanoke, Rockbridge, Rockingham, Shenandoah, Spotsylvania, Suffolk, Madison, and Warren counties. eastern cougar (puma)

Over the ensuing years when we shared our story of seeing a mountain lion with the locals about half of the people we told outright disbelieved us, some suggested we must have mistaken it for a bobcat (Bobcats are more common and have short tails. The cat we spotted had a long tail.), and some shrugged and stated, "well, there has been rumors for years that they exist". None of these avid outdoorsy locals had ever seen one nor heard a first hand account of someone spotting one in their entire lives despite living in somewhat prime territory for mountain loins (even if they are considered extinct in Virginia).

So, viewed a different way, perhaps because England is the 2nd most densely populated nation in Europe and they have less forest to hide in is the reason why they are spotted so often in England vs. the rest of Europe. I think we can rule out panthers being window fallers due to relatively common sightings in the rest of the world. While rare to see in the wild, they are much more filmable than bigfoot. Additionally, there are panthers in zoos. I think that alone discounts any window faller possibility.

 

[iamthatis]

FWIW, cougars were been spotted right in the downtown city core of Victoria (capital of BC in Canada) for a number of years when I was living there, right near the Legislature and the Empress Hotel. They were mostly in parks and green spaces.

A black big cat in the UK, tho - that's weird. I have heard of crazy people who illegally buy the kittens of big cats like tigers and raise them for pets. Maybe one of these domestic cats escaped? Either that, or an escapee from the local zoo. Big cats are incredibly powerful top predators, and they have the stealth skills to match that. So I can see them sneaking by people pretty easily, or just avoiding them. Dogs are commonly the only thing that can detect them by sense of smell, at least from what I've heard here in Canada.

If it was a 3D escapee cat, its invisibility might be like the 'invisible gorilla' effect - you won't see it if your brain isn't keyed in to the possibility of it.

 

[Cosmos]

Maybe I'm missing somenthign, but I can't see how a large black cat could live in the UK, preying on livestock, and avoid detection for very long. There are very few real forests left in the UK, and most of those are well-frequented by people. The UK, in general, is a fairly densely populated area of the UK. And England, where most of these sightings happen, is the 2nd most densely populated nation in Europe.

I think it might be possible but rather unlikely given the situation in England (that there is a real large cat from this dimension, or several of them). Having said that, I know that some large species of cats like the lynx in Germany can have a pretty big territory. Which means that just one cat usually roams a really big area. So, I do think something like that isn’t impossible. But one would think that you would hear a bit more cases of killings of prey in England and/or frequent happenings of that sort if there is really a real big cat like that in England. But, on the other hand, many animals in nature are notorious and famous for being exceptional at hiding and escaping detection, even in very densely populated areas like Germany! And that can also be pretty big creatures!

 

[Benjamin]

In the British Big Cats wiki, seems like there are more sightings in Devon (676) then anywhere else (next highest is Yorkshire, 127). There's also this story:

Beast of Exmoor​

One particular instance of note of this phenomenon is the "Beast of Exmoor" (sometimes referred to as the "Exmoor Beast"). While stories about the Beast of Exmoor originally surfaced in a similar fashion to other local "big cat stories", with sightings of the creature reported as early as 1970,[20] the story came to national prominence in the United Kingdom in 1983 when a South Molton farmer named Eric Ley claimed to have lost over 100 sheep in the space of three months, all of them apparently killed by violent throat injuries.[22][23] The claim that these livestock had been killed by a mysterious beast led to "nationwide interest", with the Daily Express offering a substantial financial reward for video footage of the creature, while the government took the unusual step of deploying a team of Royal Marine snipers to hunt down (and presumably kill) the creature.[23][8][24]

Despite extensive media coverage and both professional and amateur hunting for the creature, which in one unfortunate case saw a cryptozoologist have to be rescued after spending two nights stuck in his own trap,[25] no large cat has ever been positively identified to explain such incidents as the 1983 livestock slayings, with them now being attributed to other causes such as large dogs.[26] Despite the lack of evidence, the Beast of Exmoor persists to some extent in the public imagination; alleged sightings continue to be reported occasionally around Exmoor long after an escaped exotic pet (such as a leopard or puma) would have died,[23][27][28] while one national newspaper reported a found carcass alleged to be the Beast of Exmoor that was later identified as a dead seal.[29] Beyond these rumours regarding the creature itself, it has been posited by one journalist that the lasting legacy of the urban legend may be as a mythological base that real-life wildlife stories such as the Emperor of Exmoor can reference.[30]

I'm not saying for or against, maybe these have been seen already, but here's just a couple of videos. This one from 2010:

And two from 2023:

 

[Ben]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't see how a large black cat could live in the UK, preying on livestock, and avoid detection for very long. There are very few real forests left in the UK, and most of those are well-frequented by people. The UK, in general, is a fairly densely populated area of the UK. And England, where most of these sightings happen, is the 2nd most densely populated nation in Europe.

You're not missing much, it is somewhat implausible. People do underestimate how elusive leopards can be and often overestimate their size. I don't think those things are happening here, where we are really thinking about it. They famously live in cities like Mumbai, at a surprisingly high population density:

Big cats in the city? The leopards of Mumbai

When one thinks of Mumbai, or Bombay as it is popularly still remembered as, we think of a metropolis, we think of a concrete jungle by the sea. Known as the financial capital of India, Mumbai stands as one of the fastest developing cities.

www.linkedin.com

When considering all this, it becomes hard to imagine that Mumbai could be home to a plethora of flora and fauna, let alone a big cat like the leopard. But that is the case, with Mumbai’s Sanjay Gandhi National Park, an urban national park nestled right in the heart of the city, hosting as many as 35 leopards, with many undocumented leopards moving through wildlife corridors.
This makes Mumbai a city not only with one of the highest human population densities, but also leopard population density with 22 leopards per 100 square km (Surve 2015).

But sightings are not uncommon, neither are attacks on feral dogs, livestock or even people. There are also native prey species in the area, like spotted deer. The equivalent in the UK would be roe deer and sheep. Leopards are highly adaptable hunters and would easily take pheasant, for example, but all these things would probably be noticed even in areas considered relatively remote in the UK. None of them really are remote or large enough to avoid some evidence of their presence. I think it has happened in some very rare instances but we have very little data to suggest it was a long term thing.

There is evidence other than sightings, hair found and DNA tested:

https://www.discoverwildlife.com/news/new-dna-evidence-confirms-presence-of-big-cats-in-the-uk

Remains were found (unfortunately only sensationalist tabloid articles), but even that one is weird because they appeared to be the remains of a juvenile animal and the remains of several mauled seagulls were found nearby.

Is this new evidence of a big cat in Britain? Dog walker finds remains of terrifying creature near Scottish beauty spot

The huge beast, which has an 18-inch tail and razor sharp teeth, appears to be identical to the Beast of Bodmin, said to prowl Bodmin Moor in Cornwall mutilating livestock

www.mirror.co.uk

Very odd that no adult remains have been found, so High Strangeness is very much still on the table as I see it.

This guy has some experience tracking big cats and raises several good points. The more you think about it, the less plausible it becomes that big cats are living wild in this country.

Are big cats prowling the UK? What science tells us

When big cats are around, they leave big clues behind them.

theconversation.com

 

[Iain]

Maybe I'm missing somenthign, but I can't see how a large black cat could live in the UK, preying on livestock, and avoid detection for very long. There are very few real forests left in the UK, and most of those are well-frequented by people. The UK, in general, is a fairly densely populated. And England, where most of these sightings happen, is the 2nd most densely populated nation in Europe.

It is true that we have few really large forests left, but there is a lot of sizeable woodland and many 'green corridors' between the various wild areas. These would allow a cunning creature to avoid most of the urban areas and even smaller towns/rural villages for a long time.

I have hiked around many of the few 'wild' areas of Britain, it is quite amazing how many animals can remain hidden from you, even those the size of foxes or even deer unless you are really paying attention.

Areas such as the moors and hills of Yorkshire, Dartmoor, Northumberland, Cairngorms etc. have plenty of places a large cat could remain fairly undetected. Many people visit these regions but they tend to congregate in the favourite tourist areas, leaving most of the area empty.

Also, sheep are left to graze most of these moorlands and could become prey to cats. Many farmers blame stray or out of control dogs for sheep and lamb deaths (which I'm sure is the case in most circumstances), but perhaps some are due to big cats?

Still, I cannot see there being a large population of these animals - as you says the human population density is simply too great.

 

[Windmill knight]

A black big cat in the UK, tho - that's weird. I have heard of crazy people who illegally buy the kittens of big cats like tigers and raise them for pets. Maybe one of these domestic cats escaped? Either that, or an escapee from the local zoo.

Whenever I saw these stories I assumed that was the most likely explanation. Some rich guy in a manor keeps illegal fauna and then it escapes. They never claim the animal because it's illegal.

A year or two ago there was a small black panther jumping on rooftops in the middle of Mexico City. They simply said it had escaped from some person who owned it illegaly.

 

[Benjamin]

Just posting Ben's question from the July 6, 2024 session receiving an incredible answer. I gotta wonder why there are so many window faller 'cats' in Britain. Does this only happen in Britain?

(Ben) In October, 2023, a swab was taken from a sheep carcass found in the UK and it was analyzed. A large black animal had been witnessed near the carcass. A DNA sequence almost identical to one in leopards was found. Was this a genuine finding of material from a leopard feeding on the carcass?

A: Close

(Ben) Are the many reports of "big black cats" in the UK sightings of window fallers?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So that's why it's close. It's not...

(Joe) Are there some actual panthers or leopards roaming around in the UK for a number of years?

A: No.

Q: (L) So all of them are window fallers?

A: Yes

Q: (Andromeda) And they're able to leave traces of DNA, I guess.

A: Yes.

Q: (Andromeda) That's interesting.

A: They are temporarily "real".

Q: (Joe) And they have the same DNA as big cats from 3D.

A: Close

 

[Mari]

I gotta wonder why there are so many window faller 'cats' in Britain. Does this only happen in Britain?

From the session and Cass substack:

April 27, 2024​

Q: (Ryan) Why do 3D window-fallers fall through one window but not another? For example, why haven’t there been reports of Chupacabras in Europe? What relates the consciousness of a window-faller to a specific locator?
A: The consciousnesses of those located at the locator.
Q: (L) So, in other words, the reason they have Chupacabras where they have Chupacabras is because it’s suitable for the consciousnesses of people that receive it. And that’s what relates the consciousness of a window-faller to a specific locator: the consciousnesses of those located at the locator. Oh God, that’s just... [laughter] There’s leprechauns in Ireland, there’s swamp monsters. It just depends on where you are. And of course, I’m sure it has something to do with the environment. I mean, you have a swamp and of course you’re gonna think about creepy swamp monsters rising up with green slime dripping off of them. (Joe) And in Ireland it’s going to be little men with ginger beards drinking beer dancing around the tree! [laughter] (L) Hoarding their gold. (Andromeda) Where does that come from? (Joe) That’s just Irish people.

So basically, as I understand it, in UK when they think of a predator, they "expect" or "visualize" it as a big cat, therefore it was a manifestation of a panther-like being.

It has been suggested that some of our paraphysical monsters can materialize only during electrical storms; that they somehow draw upon the energy in the air during such storms. … we cannot exclude the possibility that some … might be temporary psychic projections; mindless manifestations of energy. Such projections could take almost any form when viewed by limited human perception. … The “reflective” factor … could even play a part and the entity might construct itself from images in the witnesses’ minds. Thus, when the proper witness (percipient) is in the right place (“window”) at the right time (“flap” period) almost anything could take place. If this is the case, then the percipient actually sees what he later describes. It was very real to him. But it did not really exist at all and all the bloodhounds, helicopters and sheriff’s posses in the world would not be able to find the creature. —John Keel, Complete Guide, p. 309

 

[Ben]

Just posting Ben's question from the July 6, 2024 session receiving an incredible answer. I gotta wonder why there are so many window faller 'cats' in Britain. Does this only happen in Britain,?

We discussed that a bit in the session thread, I added some more detail about the incident in 2023.

Post in thread 'Session 6 July 2024' Session 6 July 2024

@brandon also added, in that thread, that it happens where he lives in Australia

 

[Maat]

I remember some cases in France and Luxembourg too.