Highly Sensitive + High Sensation Seeker (INFP Personality)

John G

The Living Force
So, what do you want to do John G?

The reason I ask is because, I don't know if I've read a direct choice from you in this exchange. I think the anger might be a good sign, even if there's a need to navigate it properly, but it's a sign of you having changed something that has initiated a process of withdrawal. Although, as you yourself just pointed out. Beware of the attachment to the idea of being a martyr, that can have its own allure.
I'm planning to keep going. Before it was kind of like why bother doing it if it makes you worse for others even it's manageable, but if it's a withdrawal-like thing, might as well keep going even if it gets worse before better. I'm 60 not 20 years old so hopefully the lower usual hormone levels help even if the longer period playing around with them doesn't. Yeah in a sense this problem got me out of a martyr problem long ago and it would not be good to go back even at a reduced level.
 

Alejo

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
I'm planning to keep going. Before it was kind of like why bother doing it if it makes you worse for others even it's manageable, but if it's a withdrawal-like thing, might as well keep going even if it gets worse before better. I'm 60 not 20 years old so hopefully the lower usual hormone levels help even if the longer period playing around with them doesn't. Yeah in a sense this problem got me out of a martyr problem long ago and it would not be good to go back even at a reduced level.
Then all the power to you John G,

Feel free to share what you'll surely discover along the way, There's much we can always learn from one another.
 

Bluegazer

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I saw this thread and started browsing. I did an online test and... well here I am.

BTW. I admit that I also have a similar condition with the subject of sexuality and desire and creativity. Let's say I have a very high libido.
 

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John G

The Living Force
I saw this thread and started browsing. I did an online test and... well here I am.

BTW. I admit that I also have a similar condition with the subject of sexuality and desire and creativity. Let's say I have a very high libido.
The -T part fits too. It supposedly relates to the Big 5 Neuroticism (the other 4 have been correlated to the usual 4 MBTI scales). The -T would fit with health/development problems in Enneagram/MBTI lore too. It's the nurture things while the other scales are more nature (tests and theories are of course not always perfect but the general idea does seem to fit for the INFP-T with inferior S and T development and low Enneagram 9 health).


In general, I think the assertive/turbulent dichotomies in the MBTI map onto the Neuroticism scale in the Big 5.

“Neuroticism is one of the Big Five
higher-order personality traits in the study of psychology. Individuals who score high on neuroticism are more likely than average to be moody and to experience such feelings as anxiety, worry, fear, anger, frustration, envy, jealousy, guilt, depressed mood, and loneliness
.”[1]

In terms of the MBTI, this will likely be how much one jumps from the dominant to the inferior grip. When one is in the grip, the same behaviors associated with neuroticism, in differing degrees, start to show up. I would say that the inferior grip gives the flavor with which neuroticism is experienced. Of course, this is just my hypothesis but I got a good feeling about this one.

When we look at it as being in the inferior makes us act not like our normal healthy functioning self, and a negative expression of the function, then we probably see the relationship.

Few predictions based on this hypothesis:

...

ENFP: An ENFP-T would go into the grip and become extremely nostalgic. They would start remembering everything they have ever done wrong in life and wish they could have made better decisions. They will relive their past in the present moment, experiencing all the intense emotions in an exaggerated manner...

He didn't comment on the INFP-T but the extraverted version seems to fit; I'm 60 and kind of emotionally went back to high school especially on the romantic fiction topic. Sheesh.
 

John G

The Living Force
To add my own observations having gone through pretty much all the descriptions above (tiredness/fatigue, guilt, porn, loneliness etc) all the way up to finding the same results as obyvatel, I've managed to untangle the following:

Basic drives - if you're of sexually mature age you're going to have sexual urges. At a purely automatic level this will drive us towards social interactions in order to procreate and continue the species. It's hard wired, but can be observed/altered.

Problems with guilt around sex, and self worth (negative beliefs about social connection/trust/intimacy etc) tend to be the first place things can go wrong.
You'll see addictions to other things and/or sex (usually porn and/or negative relationships). Self reinforcing guilt and unworthiness.
This will lower dopamine levels, which will drive you find Any dopamine through addictive behaviours whilst making life seem boring/pointless.

Challenging the beliefs and doing things without expecting reward can be helpful here (Feeling stuck? Focus on action rather than outcome i.e. focus on action not reward). Abstinence may also be useful until the dopamine re-balances and you've rewired your brain a bit through new ways of thinking and acting.
Focus will be on reward or how unrewarding life is if you are stuck here.

If the beliefs are more strongly associated with self worth/social connection, this will tend to lead to lower serotonin (loneliness and depression) and a fixation on either connecting with people or how much you aren't connected. It usually goes hand in hand with guilt about sex, so will tend to drive that behaviour too. Sex can also be used here to 'feel anything' rather than numb/hopeless.

If you are low on endorphins you'll use sex as pain relief.
See The Mood Cure for possible support, but know that there are beliefs and behaviours tide up with altered brain chemistry that need to be changed.
For background on the brain chemicals see Hacking Into Your Happy Chemicals: Dopamine, Serotonin, Endorphins and Oxytocin

If you notice, all of these things have a specific focus (point of fixation), and will misuse sex as a replacement for something else.
Which brings us to oxytocin (which is released by orgasm), that is said to cause (men especially) to feel tired/want to sleep after sex. To me this is again down to where your focus is, and what programs are running behind the scenes.

Oxytocin: The hormone that makes us good or evil


Given we are full of beliefs and programs that tell us we should be treated badly, it means this mechanism can be skewed. We'll treat ourselves and others badly, and be drawn to unsafe situations because that is what releases oxytocin for us.

Oxytocin forms social bonds but also preserves trauma


Believe that you are socially isolated and can never have an intimate relationship? Orgasm will reinforce those beliefs, leaving you depleted/stressed.



Stressed? Suspicious or mistrustful of others? Orgasm will reinforce those beliefs, and the narratives about others (or a partner) abandoning you will start to spin. More depletion of energy.



Hopefully this can give some clues as to the negative drives and misuse of sex.



Focusing on world peace is about connection to the whole of humanity (and not in a New Age 'we a re all one' way) - social trust/fear and connection (oxytocin), social worth (serotonin). World peace is a world in which no one has to fear and everyone has worth/the right to exist.
It is unselfish (not wanting something for the self, that may be 'missing' or unbalanced - as the above examples show) - no attached reward/expectation (dopamine).
It is pragmatic too as it doesn't allow the built up sexual energy to be hijacked by programs/attachments (focused in a selfish way), and to override your mind with the 'Procreate' biological programs.

So focus - either intentional or subconscious beliefs seem to change the outcome.

From Embracing the Introverted Brain – Mind Brain Ed Think Tanks+

On the other hand, overstimulation is just what introverts try to avoid. Introverts have fewer dopamine receptors than extroverts and are more sensitive to the negative effects of exciting situations. That explains why they may leave parties early or not even attend at all. Introverts, quickly feeling overwhelmed, seek solitude to recover from noise and stimulation.

Introverts seek the comfort provided by a very different neurotransmitter. While dopamine provides excitement and rewards, acetylcholine provides introverts with calm and relaxation. This neurotransmitter, which was discovered in 1914, is also linked to pleasure, but in a very different way. The functions of acetylcholine include slowing the heart rate. It also plays a role in memory and learning. This neurotransmitter aids in problem-solving, reflection and decision making.

Christine Fonseca (2014) explained that acetylcholine works the same for introverts as dopamine does for extroverts. The difference is that introverts feel happiest when focused inside. Acetylcholine allows introverts to relax and think deeply, which is what they need to recharge from overstimulation. In introverts, there is a surge of this organic chemical when they are alone or with a small group of close friends.

Adding a neurotransmitter point of view to this thread. So for the highly sensitive to the concrete outside world INFP (severely introverted, indecisive, abstract) yet a feeler (more sensation seeking for the social oxytocin/serotonin but not extraverted dopamine), admiring from a safe distance (across the room or online) with a lot of inaction as needed has acetylcholine/oxytocin/serotonin (without dopamine) appeal. Enough of this stage fright combined with big 5 neuroticism or its analogs could push things towards autistic-like perhaps.
 

Martina

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
The problems that you're having have nothing to do with you being INFP. I have INFP problems because I'm a people pleaser avoiding conflicts at all costs :-). I don't know much about autism yet but is either this or some type os schizoid personality disorder that you can't bond normally with your wife. Have you ever gone maybe to some therapy, maybe some marriage counseling?
 

John G

The Living Force
The problems that you're having have nothing to do with you being INFP. I have INFP problems because I'm a people pleaser avoiding conflicts at all costs :-). I don't know much about autism yet but is either this or some type os schizoid personality disorder that you can't bond normally with your wife. Have you ever gone maybe to some therapy, maybe some marriage counseling?
Well my son like me has lots of stage fright when it comes to interacting with the outside world and he does have a counselor and is about to be tested for ADD and autism. He is an ISFJ so his defense mechanism is different than mine. I tend to avoid life and don't talk about it while he stresses out and talks about it. I got laid off at 40 twenty years ago and never worked again as well as not getting a first kiss until my 30s when the online world arrived. I'm kind of INFP with a very very strong introversion so whatever the NFP might do mostly gets lost in the introversion; kind of the same thing with my son. My wife is an ISFJ like my son but she is an assistant principal; her introversion is nowhere near what me and my son have.
 
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