Home Grown Tobacco
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Mr. Premise
The Living Force
seek10 said:
Depends on what you like and what you are trying to make. If you like American cigarettes, I would order a flue cured variety (e.g. Virginia Bright Leaf) a Burley (TN90, TN86, or Kelly Burley), and an Oriental Variety.
Just a word of caution, for those growing their own tobacco. It will totally deplete the soil of all nutrients in a few years time. So it is best to keep it away from garden plots and look into rotating the crop.
My husband's grandfather cursed tobacco. He grew it for a couple of years and then nothing would grow on that land afterwards - the soil was totally depleted.
My husband's grandfather cursed tobacco. He grew it for a couple of years and then nothing would grow on that land afterwards - the soil was totally depleted.
Lilou said:
Noted, thanks. I've nowhere to rotate what will be my third crop, which may help to explain my poor second crop, along with the cool weather we generally had last year here.
Am thinking of using mulch this year (straw medium) and also have a question if anyone who grew last year monitored their soil pH? I've read 5.8 is optimum.
LjRoxArk
Jedi
Has anyone , or even the group, thought about starting a tobacco grow for our community ? I mean like a real venture/co op where we get good, organically grown tobacco and maybe even have a surplus for trading/sale to people outside of the group ?
I commented on the Cass. Marketplace thread recently, but this one item is in such demand within our group it seems a natural fit and a fantastic business opportunity , for anybody, but especially this group.
That's right, tobacco is more valuable because of the high "entry price" of a"pack" ,about $6US. Cannabis is ubiquitous to my local market segment which is mainly University students and professors, the illegality of it locally drives the price up but the supply is usually there for the demand; alcohol is only last because it's 30 miles to the nearest six pack, but they can buy a beer at the local dive for $2, or a quart of home made fruit wine from me. It just depends on the time, day, and the individual in terms of who wants/needs what at the time I need something or need someone's labor. Granted this is my own micro economy, but I have watched this tobacco go from last to first, because you can smoke tobacco and still function.
lafn
So I have 3 questions for the tobacco growers/small farmers among us , and maybe the financiers , as well.
1.) Has this been investigated as a self provisioning venture or as a straight up business venture , by the group ? I looked/searched , but couldn't find any threads about our own tobacco growing venture.
2.) Is anyone growing tobacco Hydroponically ? What nutrients are you using ? Lights?
Currently, I grow <with every method possible >herbs, salad greens, root veggies in containers for my, and my parakeet's, personal consumption. I have been researching growing tobacco for my own use.
But the tobacco is what has the highest demand, so I am very interested to know why we are not growing our own like the Amish or the Mennonites? Are we ?? Where ? This is a major market within the community and without, so if it hasn't been studied as a solid venture, then it needs to be, and I of course will volunteer to do it. Eesh,
The dystopia many fear/prep for, has already come to my life in many ways, so trust me when I tell you that trading is the way to survive without cash/formal credit; I haven't had anymore than $40/month in cash for over 2 years now... a long way from my historic $200K+/year. You would not guess that looking at my daily life, but it is true, and the way I survive is through trade of commodities because my skill set exceeds the local economy on most days. I'm an architect, artist and commercial real estate broker/developer, turned into the "Fred Sanford" of the micro economy I run.
I am LMAO,
at how scrappy I have become in adapting with the "new deal" of "no money to buy stuff" in my life. The clients, lawyers I am used to dealing with would freak out and all of them would have already caved, (as they are mostly aging ,coked-up frat boys with alcohol and porn addictions) under the stress and difficult personal adjustments necessary to adapt and survive under these conditions. I definitely don't have Armani, RangeRover or Rolex anymore to help me make a deal. In fact, I'm so prolific at this scrappy trading thing, I'm in the process of leaning out my space as it has become somewhat of a "Sanford and Son" collection of stuff I acquired for trade/use... lafn... keeping the most interesting items for my found object sculptures, however.. :)
Back to my 3 questions; please educate, inform, bring me up to speed, show me threads.
Mod note: Post edited
I commented on the Cass. Marketplace thread recently, but this one item is in such demand within our group it seems a natural fit and a fantastic business opportunity , for anybody, but especially this group.
That's right, tobacco is more valuable because of the high "entry price" of a"pack" ,about $6US. Cannabis is ubiquitous to my local market segment which is mainly University students and professors, the illegality of it locally drives the price up but the supply is usually there for the demand; alcohol is only last because it's 30 miles to the nearest six pack, but they can buy a beer at the local dive for $2, or a quart of home made fruit wine from me. It just depends on the time, day, and the individual in terms of who wants/needs what at the time I need something or need someone's labor. Granted this is my own micro economy, but I have watched this tobacco go from last to first, because you can smoke tobacco and still function.
lafnSo I have 3 questions for the tobacco growers/small farmers among us , and maybe the financiers , as well.
1.) Has this been investigated as a self provisioning venture or as a straight up business venture , by the group ? I looked/searched , but couldn't find any threads about our own tobacco growing venture.
2.) Is anyone growing tobacco Hydroponically ? What nutrients are you using ? Lights?
Currently, I grow <with every method possible >herbs, salad greens, root veggies in containers for my, and my parakeet's, personal consumption. I have been researching growing tobacco for my own use.
But the tobacco is what has the highest demand, so I am very interested to know why we are not growing our own like the Amish or the Mennonites? Are we ?? Where ? This is a major market within the community and without, so if it hasn't been studied as a solid venture, then it needs to be, and I of course will volunteer to do it. Eesh,
The dystopia many fear/prep for, has already come to my life in many ways, so trust me when I tell you that trading is the way to survive without cash/formal credit; I haven't had anymore than $40/month in cash for over 2 years now... a long way from my historic $200K+/year. You would not guess that looking at my daily life, but it is true, and the way I survive is through trade of commodities because my skill set exceeds the local economy on most days. I'm an architect, artist and commercial real estate broker/developer, turned into the "Fred Sanford" of the micro economy I run.
I am LMAO,
at how scrappy I have become in adapting with the "new deal" of "no money to buy stuff" in my life. The clients, lawyers I am used to dealing with would freak out and all of them would have already caved, (as they are mostly aging ,coked-up frat boys with alcohol and porn addictions) under the stress and difficult personal adjustments necessary to adapt and survive under these conditions. I definitely don't have Armani, RangeRover or Rolex anymore to help me make a deal. In fact, I'm so prolific at this scrappy trading thing, I'm in the process of leaning out my space as it has become somewhat of a "Sanford and Son" collection of stuff I acquired for trade/use... lafn... keeping the most interesting items for my found object sculptures, however.. :)Back to my 3 questions; please educate, inform, bring me up to speed, show me threads.
Mod note: Post edited
Mr. Premise
The Living Force
I've been growing tobacco successfully for three years now. Some quick observations (I have to go somewhere soon but I can elaborate later).
First, I don't think there is any point in growing it indoors or hydroponically. It would be way too expensive and would need too much space. It grows fine in the ground in less than three months. That said, you want to start the plants inside for two months until they get to be a certain size and the threat of frost is over.
Also, for one heavy smoker you want to grow between 60 and 100 plants, so indoors makes no sense. It's not too hard to grow but curing it properly in the real art. So to grow for other people you would have to grow several hundred which is a lot of work. I have given thought to maybe using the CSA model and invite group members to buy shares of the harvest in advance. But it would have to be sold in whole leaf form since that is not considered by most governments to be a "tobacco product". That would avoid massive taxes and having to get a license to produce tobacco products. While leaf tobacco is considered to be a raw material.
And it would need to be done on a country by country basis so that customs wouldn't get involved. Sometimes customs officials don't know their own laws on classification of whole leaf tobacco.
Finally growing 400-500 plants and curing them properly would be a lot of work.
I would be happy to go into more detail about what would be involved. It's an addictive hobby!
First, I don't think there is any point in growing it indoors or hydroponically. It would be way too expensive and would need too much space. It grows fine in the ground in less than three months. That said, you want to start the plants inside for two months until they get to be a certain size and the threat of frost is over.
Also, for one heavy smoker you want to grow between 60 and 100 plants, so indoors makes no sense. It's not too hard to grow but curing it properly in the real art. So to grow for other people you would have to grow several hundred which is a lot of work. I have given thought to maybe using the CSA model and invite group members to buy shares of the harvest in advance. But it would have to be sold in whole leaf form since that is not considered by most governments to be a "tobacco product". That would avoid massive taxes and having to get a license to produce tobacco products. While leaf tobacco is considered to be a raw material.
And it would need to be done on a country by country basis so that customs wouldn't get involved. Sometimes customs officials don't know their own laws on classification of whole leaf tobacco.
Finally growing 400-500 plants and curing them properly would be a lot of work.
I would be happy to go into more detail about what would be involved. It's an addictive hobby!
LjRoxArk
Jedi
Thank you for the very informative response , Mr. Premise.
I am mainly interested in hydroponics b/c we may not have Sunlight for stretches of time,so I am gathering info on all kinds of plants and practicing growing them in this way. So, thanks for that.
I didn't know this :
..Oy Vey ! ,
lafn..... thats more than the potheads need annually, by exponents !!
Right now, I can only grow in containers as there are restrictions about exterior items, including plants, where I live. But, I have access to lots of land that I could farm on with a minimal lease arrangement.. just looking for the right crop or crops. I am going to grow a small patch of it this coming Spring for myself , as an experiment, outside as you have suggested, regardless.
And lastly, yes , yes , yes...on the "subscription garden" idea, Mr. Premise. I'm in , providing we can get the legality worked out for transfer. Have you worked out what the cost of the subscription would be ? ball park ? My wonder is if it is financially feasible for the average smoker to participate ?
Thank you so much for the reply, extremely useful help. And , you are an experienced grower and curer, to boot. Fantastic ! I am going to pick your brains if you will allow on this topic.
I am mainly interested in hydroponics b/c we may not have Sunlight for stretches of time,so I am gathering info on all kinds of plants and practicing growing them in this way. So, thanks for that.
I didn't know this :
..Oy Vey ! ,
lafn..... thats more than the potheads need annually, by exponents !! Right now, I can only grow in containers as there are restrictions about exterior items, including plants, where I live. But, I have access to lots of land that I could farm on with a minimal lease arrangement.. just looking for the right crop or crops. I am going to grow a small patch of it this coming Spring for myself , as an experiment, outside as you have suggested, regardless.
And lastly, yes , yes , yes...on the "subscription garden" idea, Mr. Premise. I'm in , providing we can get the legality worked out for transfer. Have you worked out what the cost of the subscription would be ? ball park ? My wonder is if it is financially feasible for the average smoker to participate ?
Thank you so much for the reply, extremely useful help. And , you are an experienced grower and curer, to boot. Fantastic ! I am going to pick your brains if you will allow on this topic.
Hi LjRoxArk,
A reminder: for the safety of other forum members and yourself, please don't reference any use of, or activity involving, illegal substances. The Forum does not condone using them, or any related activities. It is in the guidelines you agreed to when you registered for this forum.
A reminder: for the safety of other forum members and yourself, please don't reference any use of, or activity involving, illegal substances. The Forum does not condone using them, or any related activities. It is in the guidelines you agreed to when you registered for this forum.
Wu Wei Wu
Jedi Master
I'll share my experiences since I tried to grow it in Vancouver, and have another friend who also did it.
While completely legal to grow up to 15 kg in Canada per person, I believe (it might be 25kg), tobacco did not like the west coast climate very much. It grew slowly, and its final height was less than half a meter.
That said we planted late, and it was a real tough plant. It grew strong, weathered all pests without our protection, and its still alive now, nearing winter.
I used to get tobacco from a friend in the Okanogan as well, where it great great. The climate was marvelous for it. A little dry, but it could grow without the use of pesticides successfully.
While completely legal to grow up to 15 kg in Canada per person, I believe (it might be 25kg), tobacco did not like the west coast climate very much. It grew slowly, and its final height was less than half a meter.
That said we planted late, and it was a real tough plant. It grew strong, weathered all pests without our protection, and its still alive now, nearing winter.
I used to get tobacco from a friend in the Okanogan as well, where it great great. The climate was marvelous for it. A little dry, but it could grow without the use of pesticides successfully.
davey72
The Living Force
Fwiw i have more pig manure than i know what to do with. I was thinking of bagging it and selling it in the spring but anyone that wants to make the trip or maybe meetup somewhere is welcome to it. It is the best natural fertilizer out right up there with bat guano.voyageur said:
Perhaps a trade? If i bag it all up maybe we could trade for tobacco? With you Voyageur or anyone else interested. Or maybe even just seeds and growing tips.
Mr. Premise
The Living Force
It's really important to plant it on time. This year I moved in late June so I couldn't plant until then. Usually I put them in the ground at the end of May. The plants ended up half the size they normally would (3ft. vs. 6-7ft). I start the seeds on the equinox (easy to remember).Wu Wei Wu said:
Also, I have tons of seeds for almost 30 varieties if anyone wants some. One plant can produce 300,000 seeds. The plants are huge but the seeds are tiny. Forget mustard seeds, the Jesus parable would work much better with tobacco seeds but they didn't have them in the Mediterranean back then.
I also have some instructions written out for how I do it.
Gonzo
The Living Force
It might be worth adding to Wu Wei Wu's comment on the 15kg personal amount, that this is a federal (Canada) requirement. Individual provinces may also have tax laws that need to be checked. For example, Ontario (my province) is moving toward a certification process that may apply to growing for personal use. The exemption period ends Dec. 31, 2014, after which it appears any grower will need to apply for certification (_http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/tax/tt/rawleaf.html). Other provinces may also be moving toward further regulating tobacco growing, so check your provincial laws as well.
Regarding cooperative growing. I like the idea of pooling resources for such an important product. But such a venture would not be without its risks. Since tobacco is regulated in many countries, one would need a really good lawyer to help determine the risks associated with such a venture, including legal liability should a member turn against the group and try to sue for "harm". As well, we may see the day when the war on drugs extends to tobacco, which, considering the success at vilifying tobacco, probably could be initiated with little public resistance. Some things might be better done in a legally-compliant manner without drawing attention.
Gonzo
Regarding cooperative growing. I like the idea of pooling resources for such an important product. But such a venture would not be without its risks. Since tobacco is regulated in many countries, one would need a really good lawyer to help determine the risks associated with such a venture, including legal liability should a member turn against the group and try to sue for "harm". As well, we may see the day when the war on drugs extends to tobacco, which, considering the success at vilifying tobacco, probably could be initiated with little public resistance. Some things might be better done in a legally-compliant manner without drawing attention.
Gonzo
