Honeybees are disappearing
- Thread starter stardust
- Start date
alwyn
Padawan Learner
Gurdjieff used to talk about the "Sarmouni" brotherhood, and said that their symbol was the bee. He referred to a gathering of a type of knowledge, much like the ways that the bees gathered pollen for their honey. When you visit the Alhambra in Grenada, Spain, they say that much of the architecture is based on the hives of the bee. Knowing that one school of the sufic current has bees as it's symbolic expression, and that they created some wonderful gardens and architecture in tribute, I wonder if they were also pointing to more than just a symbolic gesture? Objectively, our life depends upon the bees, no? So maybe we should 'join' the Sarmouni, in spirit, anyway, and gather what man has little use for, and create little gardens for the bees.
dant
The Living Force
So, can I say that the Yellow Jacket (wasp) is a scavenger
and they do nothing to pollinate? Thus a a wasp a "taker", is
of STS orientation, as opposed to a bee that pollinates, is a "giver",
is of STO orientation, and maintains the harmonies of natural law?
A honey bee will protect the hive/colony in its defense from an
attacker, whereas a wasp will attack without provocation?
Very interesting indeed!
and they do nothing to pollinate? Thus a a wasp a "taker", is
of STS orientation, as opposed to a bee that pollinates, is a "giver",
is of STO orientation, and maintains the harmonies of natural law?
A honey bee will protect the hive/colony in its defense from an
attacker, whereas a wasp will attack without provocation?
Very interesting indeed!
dant
The Living Force
[RETRACTED STATEMENT: SEE FOLLOW UP IN FOLLOWING THREAD]alwyn said:
But one thing about "Africanized Bees" is that they attack and kill without
provocation. Perhaps these sort of bees might be "narcissistic" or "pathological"?
They seem to be like that of normal bees, but perhaps they are not? Might they
be something else? Notice that these bees kill normal bees and completely impervious
to normal bees. They also will kill the entire colonies of normal bees!
OSIT.
alwyn
Padawan Learner
This seems awfully like anthropomorphizing the poor bee. I don't think that the whole STS, STO think applies to this order of intelligence. Besides which, you may not have all the information about these bees.dant said:
Here is a good site: http://honeybee.tamu.edu/faq/index.html
Some pertinent information from this site:
Q. What is the scientific name for Africanized honey bees and can they mate with other honey bees?
A. The Africanized honey bee is a hybrid of a strain of honey bees from Africa, Apis mellifera scutellata, and basically any other honey bee that it can mate with and produce viable offspring.
In the United States this could be Apis mellifera ligustica (Italian honey bee), Apis mellifera carnica (Carniolian honey bee), Apis mellifera caucasica (Caucasian honey bee), and Apis mellifera mellifera (Dark honey bee).
Q. Why are Africanized honey bees called 'killer bees'?
A. The name "killer" was first used in a news magazine report several decades ago when it was reported that several people died after having been stung by the bees. The name was only used once at that time and was greatly exaggerated. A B-grade movie then was made in which the "killer" bees attacked Houston and caused a lot of death and destruction in that city. Though the movie was complete fiction, the widespread perception of the Africanized honey bees being killers was launched.
Q. How many people have died from Africanized honey bee stings?
A. So far, the lab in Texas has positively identified one case in which Africanized honey bees stung a man who later died. In two other fatalities, the bees involved in deaths have been identified as European Honey Bees with African introgression, indicating a mixing of the breeds. Typically in Texas since figures have been kept for more than 40 years, about two people per year die from regular honey bee stings (usually the person who is stung is allergic).
Q. Why don't researchers think of a way to kill all the Africanized honey bees?
A. Africanized honey bees, like their cousins the regular European honey bee, actually are useful in helping to pollinate plants. Scientists still are trying to learn more about the value of Africanized honey bees, and in some South and Central American countries and in their native African, these bees are maintained for honey production. Even if they never are used for honey production in the United States, it would not be possible to kill one kind of honey bee without killing other types. And because the population of regular honey bees has been greatly harmed by a deadly mite in recent years, honey bees are desperately needed to pollinate our crops and flowers.
There's more at this site.
dant
The Living Force
[Heavily redacted as more facts were found...]
EHB: European Honey Bee
AHB: Africanized Honey Bee
I will retract the statement I made about AHB's being "narcissistic" or "psychopathic". There is no evidence
to support those statements. It was an assumption because I was focusing on AHB traits (aggressiveness
and the unprovoked attacks). I thought I saw a documentary of AHB killing off the EHB, but I cannot be
sure of this since I cannot find this anywhere. I still wonder though, if there is a pre-adamic v.s. adamic
type trait in density 1 through 4. Perhaps this is NOT the case with European Honey Bee (EHB) v.s.
Africanized Honey Bee (AHB).
Yes, there information at the site mentioned and some more information:
Fact 1: AHB escaped from a lab in South America. They are not native species in the Americas.
Fact 2: AHB have since migrated up towards the Northern Hemisphere. They have reached Texas
have since spread up and diverged. Where are they now? They are shown in a migration map provided
further down.
Fact 3: AHB attacks humans and animals as the migration moves Northern and into populated areas.
Fact 4: AHB are aggressive and tends to somehow "edge out" the native bee population.
More sites:
This link: _http://www.columbia.edu/itc/cerc/danoff-burg/invasion_bio/inv_spp_summ/Apis_mellifera_scutellata.htm
adds some interesting statements:
_http://www.stingshield.com/news.htm
* Several dogs are killed ( counted 5 so far but that is just in brief)
* AHB are somehow "overtaking" EHB. Survival of the Fittest?
Seems when you read through all the news, the statements highlighted above seems to be more
and more true? Seems that AHB cannot survive longer winters but what about EHB? Are EHB more resistant
to longer and colder weather? Since the AHB is out-competing EHB for habitat at a very rapid pace, and then
longer and colder weather kicks in, all of a sudden the (mostly) AHB bees are being wiped out in droves
in North America but continues to thrive/survive in warmer areas mostly in the South?
From the above link I found a US Govt migration map:
_http://www.ars.usda.gov/Research/docs.htm?docid=11059&page=6
and it is interesting.
From link: _http://biology.usgs.gov/s+t/noframe/x189.htm
and can survive longer winters. So what is left perhaps, is the theory that the AHB will extinct out the EHB and then
when the winters kick in, the AHB population are wiped out.
I found this so my thought that the AHB's migrated to OR/WA was not factual:
inherits AHB traits (EM/GM/disease resistance) with the that of EHB traits (hoarding(winter survival/doctility)
which is a better bee? If they had known about this "problem" for some time(1998 or more?), why the panic
now? Did the fail to create this hybrid or is it something else?
In any case, the AHB have not migrated further up north, and so at this time the EHB should
still be alive. So, something is killing them and at a very rapid pace. As Laura says, it is
probably the GM, microwave EM, disease and so forth. It is interesting to note that most
of the agriculture is in the above the AHB migration lines and this is where the EHB should
be and the AHB aren't there yet. Maybe they "missed the deadline" to create the sorely
needed hybrids in order to save our crops and the severe weather we have been having
lately?
EHB: European Honey Bee
AHB: Africanized Honey Bee
I will retract the statement I made about AHB's being "narcissistic" or "psychopathic". There is no evidence
to support those statements. It was an assumption because I was focusing on AHB traits (aggressiveness
and the unprovoked attacks). I thought I saw a documentary of AHB killing off the EHB, but I cannot be
sure of this since I cannot find this anywhere. I still wonder though, if there is a pre-adamic v.s. adamic
type trait in density 1 through 4. Perhaps this is NOT the case with European Honey Bee (EHB) v.s.
Africanized Honey Bee (AHB).
Yes, there information at the site mentioned and some more information:
Fact 1: AHB escaped from a lab in South America. They are not native species in the Americas.
Fact 2: AHB have since migrated up towards the Northern Hemisphere. They have reached Texas
have since spread up and diverged. Where are they now? They are shown in a migration map provided
further down.
Fact 3: AHB attacks humans and animals as the migration moves Northern and into populated areas.
Fact 4: AHB are aggressive and tends to somehow "edge out" the native bee population.
More sites:
This link: _http://www.columbia.edu/itc/cerc/danoff-burg/invasion_bio/inv_spp_summ/Apis_mellifera_scutellata.htm
adds some interesting statements:
This site seems to keep track of AB News and is very interesting:
_http://www.stingshield.com/news.htm
* Several dogs are killed ( counted 5 so far but that is just in brief)
* AHB are somehow "overtaking" EHB. Survival of the Fittest?
Seems when you read through all the news, the statements highlighted above seems to be more
and more true? Seems that AHB cannot survive longer winters but what about EHB? Are EHB more resistant
to longer and colder weather? Since the AHB is out-competing EHB for habitat at a very rapid pace, and then
longer and colder weather kicks in, all of a sudden the (mostly) AHB bees are being wiped out in droves
in North America but continues to thrive/survive in warmer areas mostly in the South?
From the above link I found a US Govt migration map:
_http://www.ars.usda.gov/Research/docs.htm?docid=11059&page=6
and it is interesting.
From link: _http://biology.usgs.gov/s+t/noframe/x189.htm
The above bold seems to support the theory that AHB cannot survive winters as EHB are better at honey hoarding
and can survive longer winters. So what is left perhaps, is the theory that the AHB will extinct out the EHB and then
when the winters kick in, the AHB population are wiped out.
I found this so my thought that the AHB's migrated to OR/WA was not factual:
Ok... so they want "fix the problem with EHB disappearance" by creating E/A-HB hybrids that
inherits AHB traits (EM/GM/disease resistance) with the that of EHB traits (hoarding(winter survival/doctility)
which is a better bee? If they had known about this "problem" for some time(1998 or more?), why the panic
now? Did the fail to create this hybrid or is it something else?
In any case, the AHB have not migrated further up north, and so at this time the EHB should
still be alive. So, something is killing them and at a very rapid pace. As Laura says, it is
probably the GM, microwave EM, disease and so forth. It is interesting to note that most
of the agriculture is in the above the AHB migration lines and this is where the EHB should
be and the AHB aren't there yet. Maybe they "missed the deadline" to create the sorely
needed hybrids in order to save our crops and the severe weather we have been having
lately?
alwyn
Padawan Learner
from http://extension.usu.edu/insect/fs/africani.htmdant said:
A race of African bees was introduced into Brazil in 1956 in an effort to breed a bee that
would produce more honey in the tropics. Swarms escaped and multiplied, and dispersed
through South American and into Central America. From there, swarms spread naturally into
Mexico and then into the United States by 1990.
Spread and Distribution in West
An Africanized honey bee swarm was first confirmed in the United States at Hidalgo, Texas
in 1990. The first confirmed attack in the United States occurred in 1991 at Brownsville,
Texas. The first fatality attributed to Africanized honey bees in the United States occurred in
1993, also in Texas.
Africanized honey bees can be aroused to attack by disturbances caused by lawn mowers,
weed eaters, tractors, power tools, or other sources that create loud sound or vibrations.
People unknowingly approaching a nest too closely may be attacked without any other
provocation.
Besides their stinging tendencies, Africanized honey bees have several other traits that make
them undesirable to beekeepers. They often swarm, absconding with the whole colony. They
will rob other colonies, spreading diseases and parasites. They can interbreed with European
varieties, transmitting these undesirable traits.
Africanized honey bees spend more effort on colony reproduction, while European bees
spend more effort on the collection and storage of food. If Africanized traits were to
dominate European traits in this country, the major effect might be reduced pollination of
fruit, vegetable, seed, and fiber crops.
(Alwyn interjects) I think the keyword here is MIGHT. At this point it is all speculation. According to the previously posted article, in Arizona the bees are integrating, mellowing, and producing honey. This is on the ground, practical OBJECTIVE data about bees, by FARMERS who work with them every day.
University of Utah, cont.
The fact is that any honey bee can be a "killer bee". More deaths are caused by stinging
members of the Hymenoptera (bees, wasps, hornets, and ants) than by any other insect or
arthropod group. The estimates of the lethal number of bee stings vary widely depending on
the source. These estimates range from 300 to 1500 stings in non-allergic healthy adults. Far
fewer stings can cause death by anaphylactic shock in allergic individuals. Children and the
elderly can generally tolerate fewer stings. In actual sting incidents by Africanized honey
bees, deaths have occurred with as few as 40 stings (an 82-year-old Texas man). On the other
hand, a 77-year-old Las Vegas, Nevada woman recently received over 500 stings and
survived.
If you are stung by Africanized (or even European) bees more than 15 times or are suffering
symptoms other than localized pain and swelling, you should seek medical attention
immediately. Don't hesitate to call 9-1-1 if that is your only option or you feel you may
become incapacitated. Symptoms of allergic reactions to bee stings include swelling of the
tongue or throat, hives, dizziness, breathing difficulty, and unconsciousness. Onset of such
symptoms will generally occur within twenty minutes following the attack.
Safety Information
Awareness of bees and their potential nesting sites will lessen your chances of being stung.
Knowing what to do when bees attack will lessen your chances of being seriously injured by
bees. Bees fly fast, but a healthy adult can outrun them. Do not flail or swipe at any
bees that might chase you as this will only agitate them more. Do not try to escape by
jumping into water; the bees will wait around until you resurface. Escape to the nearest
enclosed shelter you can find, such as a vehicle, tent, house, or other structure.
Additional Information
Additional information about Africanized honey bees and the Utah Africanized Honey Bee
Survey can be obtained from the Utah Department of Agriculture and Food web site:
www.ag.state.ut.us
Numerous other references can be found by using one of the web search engines and the key
words "Africanized honey bee". However, you should consider the source of information
you review, as there is probably much misinformation available on this subject as well.
Where is your data for "they want to fix the problem with EHB disappearance" by creating E/A-HB hybrids?" This seems more like a leap of logic based upon a rather paranoid assumption. (I think the major problem of a society run by pathological types is that the paranoia bleeds into and contaminates ordinary thought. This doesn't mean we don't need to be paranoid, but certainly, don't let it take over!) The thing that some scholarly types fail to see from their ivory tower is that the earth native flora and fauna have a certain intelligence, and will 'evolve' to suit the habitat in which they arise. Farmers have always exploited an ability to mix and interbreed species, to maximize crop potential. So,(Occam's razor, and all) they could just have been trying to introduce a bee that would make better honey in the tropics, by importing a bee from a hotter clime. And, yeah, sometimes the effort gets out of hand, and, lacking predators, an introduced species will kind of take over. So, at first the 'african-ness' holds true, and they agressively seek out new food. That is their nature. And sometimes they will breed with the gentler, northern honeybee, making the domestic kind more agressive. That is one way this can play out. And certainly, in evolutionary times, 50-60 years is nothing.dant said:
And yet, there are reports "on the ground" as it were, of the hybrids being a little less violent, and more honey producing...
This is a 'statistics' sort of argument. One can use statistics to argue just about any point there is. The initial thread of the argument is that our pollinator bees are disappearing. The anecdotal evidence in from the field states that it is the commercial and trucked hives which are disappearing in great numbers. So, I think the solution would be to create less dependence on imported bees, and more habitat for native bees.
My son and I were driving up from AZ on our spring vacation, and passed up I-5 through the Almond orchards. There was a crop-duster, doing what they do best, spraying the crops, diving through the air, taking out any number of flying creatures. This is not rocket science. Quit poisoning the habitat, quit stressing the bees. If you don't kill the native bees with insecticides, GMO's, etc., ya don't have to cart in bees on trucks. If you don't have to keep carting bees around in trucks, they won't get stressed out from all the pollution on the road and die. Very simple logic.
Cassandra-Alexandra
The Force is Strong With This One
Ark, in reply to your German to English PDF, I've spent a bit of time using an online translator this morning at work & saved the file here:
http://www.tgdesigns.plus.com/Bee-Article-Ger2Eng.txt
It’s a bit rough but at least it’s readable. Hope that helps.
http://www.tgdesigns.plus.com/Bee-Article-Ger2Eng.txt
It’s a bit rough but at least it’s readable. Hope that helps.
I found this AP article and it was posted on several blogs. It seems to me that they try to make "light" and "fun" of the issue of the bee disappearances, and the possibility that cell phone towers might have anything to do with it. And of what i understand about Haarp and cell phone towers, i'd say "they" wouldn't want people to realize the terror of the situation and demand explanations and alternative methods.
Damage control?
Damage control?
Rockimedes
The Force is Strong With This One
I found a couple of interesting articles stating that the dissapeance of honey bees has been noticed in every decade since the 60's: "bee losses were reported under terms such as “dwindling disease�� or “disappearing disease�� (Bailey, 1963;Oertel, 1965; Wilson and Menapace, 1979; Kulincevic et al. 1984)" [quoted from http://www(d)bayercropscience(d)com/bayer/cropscience/cscms.nsf/ID/1stArticle031999_EN/$file/Schmuck_1.pdf] I could not find most of the original papers unfortunately though, so it is unclear what the cause was attributed to.
Here's the full conclusion :
"Some cases of bee losses are clearly related to a causal factor such as pesticide-related incidents which are associated with a suspicious mortality of foraging or nurse bees. Further clinical symptoms of pesticide-related incidents are blackening (formulating agents can solve the waxy surface of the integument) and the extension of the proboscis of affected bees (Atkins, 1975). More mysterious are cases of bee losses which are not indicated by a noticeably high mortality rate and which are reported from all over the world. Such instances frequently include the loss of several thousands of bee colonies and are reported under terms such as “dwindling disease�� or “disappearing disease�� (DD)...The phenomenon of DD comprises most likely cases with different causal factors which have one common factor, a severe decline in colony population with no accumulation of dead bees at the hive entrance, i.e. worker bees apparently die somewhere in the field. Although most of the reported DD cases concern population declines during autumn, winter or spring (e.g. Wilson and Menapace, 1979; Kulincevic et al., 1984), these cases are not devoid of value for the “French Bee Syndrome�� since they give valuable hints regarding possible causal factors. Among others the following factors can be involved in the expression of the DD: malnutrition, parasites, diseases, toxicants, unfavourable weather conditions, genetic deficiencies and bee colony management (e.g. disease control measures)."
Good article, well worth the read. After months of research on the subject I have learned two things:
1) Honey bees are disappearing
2) No one has a freaking clue of what is really going on.
Also, a French cartoon seems to agree with the idea of a disappearance in the 80's: http://www(d)beekeeping(d)com/spmf/bd.htm (a full translation would be greatly appreciated!)
Happy searching!
Here's the full conclusion :
"Some cases of bee losses are clearly related to a causal factor such as pesticide-related incidents which are associated with a suspicious mortality of foraging or nurse bees. Further clinical symptoms of pesticide-related incidents are blackening (formulating agents can solve the waxy surface of the integument) and the extension of the proboscis of affected bees (Atkins, 1975). More mysterious are cases of bee losses which are not indicated by a noticeably high mortality rate and which are reported from all over the world. Such instances frequently include the loss of several thousands of bee colonies and are reported under terms such as “dwindling disease�� or “disappearing disease�� (DD)...The phenomenon of DD comprises most likely cases with different causal factors which have one common factor, a severe decline in colony population with no accumulation of dead bees at the hive entrance, i.e. worker bees apparently die somewhere in the field. Although most of the reported DD cases concern population declines during autumn, winter or spring (e.g. Wilson and Menapace, 1979; Kulincevic et al., 1984), these cases are not devoid of value for the “French Bee Syndrome�� since they give valuable hints regarding possible causal factors. Among others the following factors can be involved in the expression of the DD: malnutrition, parasites, diseases, toxicants, unfavourable weather conditions, genetic deficiencies and bee colony management (e.g. disease control measures)."
Good article, well worth the read. After months of research on the subject I have learned two things:
1) Honey bees are disappearing
2) No one has a freaking clue of what is really going on.
Also, a French cartoon seems to agree with the idea of a disappearance in the 80's: http://www(d)beekeeping(d)com/spmf/bd.htm (a full translation would be greatly appreciated!)
Happy searching!
alwyn
Padawan Learner
I was out in the garden today. I'm recording some bee sounds for another project. Anyway, I was drawn to the mint field, it's a good news, bad news situation. I found two copulating bees, different species, domestic and wild...hmmm...hope they weren't gay...go guys go!
On another note, usually by this time of year we have many butterflies. I saw one monarch so far, I'm praying it finds a mate. Hopefully we'll see more as the season progresses. All praise to the gardens...
On another note, usually by this time of year we have many butterflies. I saw one monarch so far, I'm praying it finds a mate. Hopefully we'll see more as the season progresses. All praise to the gardens...
Her is the brief news from the Times of Malta today:
where are the bodies?
Most of the reports mention that bee that bodies are nowhere to be seen, if I am not mistaken, they said the hives are just empty and it seems as if the bees have disappeared.
Nosema apis is a microsporidian, a small, unicellular parasite that mainly affects honey bees. It causes nosemosis, also called nosema, which is the most widespread of the adult honey bee diseases.
Here is more detailed explanationof this disease
http:slashslashmaarec.cas.psu.edu/bkCD/Bee_Diseases/Nosema.html
Now there is only one little glitch in this theory...
where are the bodies?
Most of the reports mention that bee that bodies are nowhere to be seen, if I am not mistaken, they said the hives are just empty and it seems as if the bees have disappeared.
Nosema apis is a microsporidian, a small, unicellular parasite that mainly affects honey bees. It causes nosemosis, also called nosema, which is the most widespread of the adult honey bee diseases.
Here is more detailed explanationof this disease
http:slashslashmaarec.cas.psu.edu/bkCD/Bee_Diseases/Nosema.html
Trending content
-
Thread 'Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?'
- wanderingthomas
Replies: 29K -
-
-
-