House and mine disintegration

[Anamarija]

Maybe. I have the desire to explore that part of me (I love psychology in general)

Do you have a wish to explore emotions from practical experience or just theoretical?

but the problem is that I have the feeling that some forces also have the desire to stop me in doing that.

As Seven of Nine says: Please, explain!

p.s. my dreams from last night was that I was riding a horse, that was very interesting because I have never dream this before. Maybe that means that I'm pushing to hard on some things, because I couldn't control easily my horse and I want it.

p.s. do you know some good thread about arguing, how to argue properly? That's my issue this days. I don't want to fight, don't care for arguing (even this could easily be my buffer, but if this is buffer I don't see the point in arguing), but if I don't argue it looks like I don't care.

 

[Persej]

Do you have a wish to explore emotions from practical experience or just theoretical?

Both.

As Seven of Nine says: Please, explain!

It's Hybrid Wars on personal level. New problems popping up before you solved the old ones. As above (in geopolitics) so below (on personal level).

And if you have to deal with several problems in the same time, the chances are good that you won't solve any of them. Or perhaps, just after you solved one problem, you get another one, and therefore you never get the chance to achieve something bigger in your life. You just spend your life solving problems after problems.

It works on people, and it works on countries.

p.s. my dreams from last night was that I was riding a horse, that was very interesting because I have never dream this before. Maybe that means that I'm pushing to hard on some things, because I couldn't control easily my horse and I want it.

Could be.

p.s. do you know some good thread about arguing, how to argue properly? That's my issue this days. I don't want to fight, don't care for arguing (even this could easily be my buffer, but if this is buffer I don't see the point in arguing), but if I don't argue it looks like I don't care.

Well, if the person is worth arguing with, then I think that arguing can be a good thing. I can't think of any text right now, but if I find it I'll tell you.

 

[Persej]

p.s. do you know some good thread about arguing, how to argue properly? That's my issue this days. I don't want to fight, don't care for arguing (even this could easily be my buffer, but if this is buffer I don't see the point in arguing), but if I don't argue it looks like I don't care.

This thread has some very good comments about arguing. Especially read Laura's posts: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,24722.msg286294.html#msg286294

 

[Anamarija]

Thank you Persej, very helpful. ;)

 

[Windmill knight]

Speaking about "maturity of character", last night I had a same type of dream that I have from time to time. I dream about being in high school (sometimes in faculty) because somebody found out that I haven't finished some subjects and now I have to go to school again. And every time after I wake up I have to tell myself that I don't have to worry about that because I have diploma and that I finished all that I had to finish.

But now I think that maybe those dreams weren't about the school itself but about general life lessons. Maybe my subconscious is trying to tell me that in my life I missed to pass some basic life lessons and that I cannot skip them if I want to graduate.

I hope that in the future my subconscious manages to tell my what are those lessons and how to pass them.

I sometimes have those dreams too. Either I'm back at uni or at highschool, and I got exams to come, or a thesis to finish. A different version of this same type of stressful dream is being in jobs I've had in the past and having to get into the office on time, or dealing with some work-related urgent issue but something goes wrong, etc. Yet another is being late to catch a plane, and I've noticed those pressing-time dreams come up particularly when I know I need to get up early in the morning for some reason.

I've also wondered if those are metaphors for lessons or tasks that have yet to be completed. However, I think that the simplest explanation is that I'm anxious or stressed about something in waking life and that stress gets replayed during the dream following old patterns. As a general rule, I think it's useful to compare the themes that come up in dreams with our daily lifes. It often happens that the underlying emotions are similar, but the situations and the characters in the dream are changed, often for elements of the past that at the time made a big impression on the machine so it plays the old records again and again.

 

[luc]

Very interesting thread, thank you everyone!

As for the "drive" that some people develop, it depends on the motivation I guess - for example, I have known people with an exceptional drive to become an "artist" or what have you, because they want to be famous, admired, and avoid "real" work... On the other hand, I greatly admire people with a strong drive towards truth and service to others, which is a totally different "driving force". Thank you also for bringing up the "splitter vs. crystallizer" discussion, I totally forgot about that.

Speaking about "maturity of character", last night I had a same type of dream that I have from time to time. I dream about being in high school (sometimes in faculty) because somebody found out that I haven't finished some subjects and now I have to go to school again. And every time after I wake up I have to tell myself that I don't have to worry about that because I have diploma and that I finished all that I had to finish.

But now I think that maybe those dreams weren't about the school itself but about general life lessons. Maybe my subconscious is trying to tell me that in my life I missed to pass some basic life lessons and that I cannot skip them if I want to graduate.

I hope that in the future my subconscious manages to tell my what are those lessons and how to pass them.

I sometimes have those dreams too. Either I'm back at uni or at highschool, and I got exams to come, or a thesis to finish. A different version of this same type of stressful dream is being in jobs I've had in the past and having to get into the office on time, or dealing with some work-related urgent issue but something goes wrong, etc. Yet another is being late to catch a plane, and I've noticed those pressing-time dreams come up particularly when I know I need to get up early in the morning for some reason.

I've also wondered if those are metaphors for lessons or tasks that have yet to be completed. However, I think that the simplest explanation is that I'm anxious or stressed about something in waking life and that stress gets replayed during the dream following old patterns. As a general rule, I think it's useful to compare the themes that come up in dreams with our daily lifes. It often happens that the underlying emotions are similar, but the situations and the characters in the dream are changed, often for elements of the past that at the time made a big impression on the machine so it plays the old records again and again.

I've had very similar dreams, usually involving taking my final math test at school again... I always thought this is a hint for a deep blockage I face, namely self-discipline. I had this "personality split" that sometimes, I could drive myself real hard, but I always lost momentum once real self-discipline and endurance was needed. Another "little I" took over - I think there is some deep coping mechanism behind that, which I developed early on in life - everything was better than facing what's behind it I guess, even shooting myself in the foot, so to speak. This caused great harm to me and other people depending on me in the past. So maybe such dreams are meant to remind me of that, and motivate me to face this abyss? But it also could be "just" a stressful situation that is replayed again, with no deep meaning...

 

[Yas]

Very interesting thread!

In many instances I used to admire people who have this strong personality inside them (crystals), but in other times I prayed to god to never become like them when I see how much they are unable to let go of their holy cows. At that point I see a robot in front of me, not a living human being who can think rationally.

I would still like to crystallize, but just not to have something that would block me from my essence and having an open view on the world.

Since I can relate to not having a "drive for life" for most of my life (a bit of tautology here ;)), here's an idea. Is it possible that you don't want to "crystallize" but to have a "maturity of character"?

In many cases really "driven" people are being motivated by things they are not aware of. And sometimes it carries a heavy price for their health. I have a friend like this, who wants to work as a doctor at the top veterinary clinic in post Soviet Union area. She works as an assistant there right now. Sure, she is super dedicated and works incredibly hard for that chance. She takes 16 hours shifts one after another, and that's why she definitely deserves it.

On the other hand, she suffers from a serious case of parasomnia (and I had a chance to experience it when came for a short visit). During a day she is an epitome of tranquility, but during sleep she moves, fights, makes noises as if in pain, even says things like "I am afraid". She also says that sometimes she sleepwalks. Sure, apparently she has it from childhood, but it probably means that she always has been a "driven" person. And I really worry for her, because this isn't going to end well. But obviously she doesn't want to hear any of it.

But there is another type of "strong personality", that has to do with "strength of character". In this case "strong" doesn't mean "crystallized". This kind of people can "bend" and adapt if needed, but they also have enough will to face inner turmoils and prevent them from interfering with their aim.

That could be a good alternative to "crystallization". :)

Thanks for this comment Keit. Some time ago, I was thinking about this people that have a clear "drive" in life and I thought of it as identification, which can be related to "crystallization". This was something that I thought about when I was young and I kind of felt that people are so identified with what they do, lets say, being a musician or a doctor, and that becomes their whole identity. I noticed I never felt identified by something in particular and I thought I was wrong because of that, that I didn't find my true motivation in life... or something like that.

Yet, I think differently now. I believe that this identity people hold on to can be admired, yes. But that doesn't mean that we are all like that and also, as you say, the driving force that leads people to be identified with one particular activity isn't necessarily a conscious choice of what they want to do with their lives. Many times, what we believe to be our identity are narratives that we tell ourselves, according to our own programming. So after reading Inviting a Monkey to Tea, I came to an idea the identity isn't necessarily something fixed. What if what we call our true self is our Being? An what if our Being is our consciousness, so it isn't necessarily a fixed thing but an action; the action of being conscious?

So, we have a self (composed of multiple Is) that establishes relationships with the experience, by living, and if we don't identify our being with one particular relationship and we develop a second relationship which is above the multifaceted self and the experience, that would be the relationship of consciousness with self and experience, and maybe that relationship is what we call our true self. It is flexible and not fixed but a constant action, therefore, it hasn't got a particular activity as motivator, but choices (another action) lead by our consciousness.

Well... these are just ideas that I write down when I'm trying to digest what I read and they need work in order to be more clear... so I'm sorry if they are more confusing than anything else.

Speaking about "maturity of character", last night I had a same type of dream that I have from time to time. I dream about being in high school (sometimes in faculty) because somebody found out that I haven't finished some subjects and now I have to go to school again. And every time after I wake up I have to tell myself that I don't have to worry about that because I have diploma and that I finished all that I had to finish.

But now I think that maybe those dreams weren't about the school itself but about general life lessons. Maybe my subconscious is trying to tell me that in my life I missed to pass some basic life lessons and that I cannot skip them if I want to graduate.

I hope that in the future my subconscious manages to tell my what are those lessons and how to pass them.

I sometimes have those dreams too. Either I'm back at uni or at highschool, and I got exams to come, or a thesis to finish. A different version of this same type of stressful dream is being in jobs I've had in the past and having to get into the office on time, or dealing with some work-related urgent issue but something goes wrong, etc. Yet another is being late to catch a plane, and I've noticed those pressing-time dreams come up particularly when I know I need to get up early in the morning for some reason.

I've also wondered if those are metaphors for lessons or tasks that have yet to be completed. However, I think that the simplest explanation is that I'm anxious or stressed about something in waking life and that stress gets replayed during the dream following old patterns. As a general rule, I think it's useful to compare the themes that come up in dreams with our daily lifes. It often happens that the underlying emotions are similar, but the situations and the characters in the dream are changed, often for elements of the past that at the time made a big impression on the machine so it plays the old records again and again.

I've had very similar dreams, usually involving taking my final math test at school again... I always thought this is a hint for a deep blockage I face, namely self-discipline. I had this "personality split" that sometimes, I could drive myself real hard, but I always lost momentum once real self-discipline and endurance was needed. Another "little I" took over - I think there is some deep coping mechanism behind that, which I developed early on in life - everything was better than facing what's behind it I guess, even shooting myself in the foot, so to speak. This caused great harm to me and other people depending on me in the past. So maybe such dreams are meant to remind me of that, and motivate me to face this abyss? But it also could be "just" a stressful situation that is replayed again, with no deep meaning...

I also had these dreams of going back to school and having to finish some work and having exams and so on. I always thought that because school years where particularly hard emotionally, my subconscious is still processing all of that and doing some cleaning work. But the ideas posted above are definitively interesting and give food for thought. Thanks for sharing!

 

[luc]

Thanks for sharing this Yas.

Thanks for this comment Keit. Some time ago, I was thinking about this people that have a clear "drive" in life and I thought of it as identification, which can be related to "crystallization". This was something that I thought about when I was young and I kind of felt that people are so identified with what they do, lets say, being a musician or a doctor, and that becomes their whole identity. I noticed I never felt identified by something in particular and I thought I was wrong because of that, that I didn't find my true motivation in life... or something like that.

Similar here - or rather: I always had multiple identifications/driving forces going on that basically nullified each other. It was actually very frustrating and destructive to live in a state like this. On the other hand, it now provides ample material to "work with", to give each thing I tried/identified with a new meaning, and use it under a different umbrealla so to speak, with a more esoteric aim in mind.

Yet, I think differently now. I believe that this identity people hold on to can be admired, yes. But that doesn't mean that we are all like that and also, as you say, the driving force that leads people to be identified with one particular activity isn't necessarily a conscious choice of what they want to do with their lives. Many times, what we believe to be our identity are narratives that we tell ourselves, according to our own programming. So after reading Inviting a Monkey to Tea, I came to an idea the identity isn't necessarily something fixed. What if what we call our true self is our Being? An what if our Being is our consciousness, so it isn't necessarily a fixed thing but an action; the action of being conscious?

So, we have a self (composed of multiple Is) that establishes relationships with the experience, by living, and if we don't identify our being with one particular relationship and we develop a second relationship which is above the multifaceted self and the experience, that would be the relationship of consciousness with self and experience, and maybe that relationship is what we call our true self. It is flexible and not fixed but a constant action, therefore, it hasn't got a particular activity as motivator, but choices (another action) lead by our consciousness.

That's how I see it as well - we need to take our "personality" (as G. understood it) and work with it - integrate all those little I's and identifications by giving them a new purpose. Before, they were all doing this or that randomly, triggered by external and internal stimuli we were not aware of. Now, the goal is to put a little arrow symbol on all those I's, making them vectors pointing in a specific direction (our Aim). That way, we develop a new relationship with our little I's - something bigger, our true self, becomes responsible and "orchestrates" these identities so that each one can move towards the Aim. Sometimes, this means a radical change in our personalities, sometimes it means that outwardly, we don't change much, but because of the new motivations/aims, our whole purpose in life changes, our whole self moves in a certain direction, whereas before everything was random.

What I'm trying to say is that maybe those identifications are not useless after all and indeed can be admired, but what's important is to develop something bigger in ourselves, which can make those identifications move in a certain direction. At least that's how I understand it right now.

 

[Persej]

I think you explained our situation very well luc.

Regarding random identifications, there was this very good article on SOTT about how our "consumer culture imposes numerous influences that weaken personality structures": https://www.sott.net/article/318269-Cultural-insanity-Ponerized-Western-consumer-culture-is-creating-a-demoralized-man-in-psycho-spiritual-crisis

Despite surface appearances to the contrary, the consumer age is deathly boring. Boredom is caused, not because an activity is inherently boring, but because it is not meaningful to the person.

And this is another form of the attack on our selves. Although, this form of the attack can come in a pleasurable manner (sport, cars, fashion, tv shows...). So you have a plenty of material for all of your little Is to have fun with, and to never remember that something is wrong inside.

 

[Yas]

Yes, thanks luc! Your explanation very clear.

The Aim is indeed important in the process of bringing meaning to our lives. I think that this is very well put and clear:

What I'm trying to say is that maybe those identifications are not useless after all and indeed can be admired, but what's important is to develop something bigger in ourselves, which can make those identifications move in a certain direction. At least that's how I understand it right now.

I would stick that to my wall :D Thanks!

 

[Persej]

I had another interesting dream with the house motive this morning. There is one recurrent motive in my dreams that appears from time to time, and that is the motive of hidden rooms or floors. I think that it represents parts of my mind that I do not have access to. In such dreams I am always surprised when I discover such hidden areas in the place that I live. Sometimes they contain some objects, sometimes they are empty.

But this morning the dream was very profound. I was at my father's home, my father was there, and some people were coming to our place. At one point I looked at our house and I saw a door opened. When I looked inside, I saw that something was happening. I went inside, and I saw that there is an opening to the second floor, which doesn't exist in reality. I climbed to the second floor and I saw that there are a lot of people working on the renovation of the discovered second floor. The floor was full of old things, like it was fully preserved from the old times when my grandpa lived. There was my grandpa's bed, in old style with straw as a mattress, and a lot of old guns of his. The house was just full of people that worked on the house, they were very busy and happy to help.

When I woke up, I was wondering why did I have such dream now? Did something happen to me because of some influx of cosmic energies, or have I done something? Well, I wasn't doing anything special, but perhaps I did some combination of things that made some positive effect on me? There are a few things that come to my mind, but I will have to do some experimenting to be sure.

 

[Oxajil]

There is one recurrent motive in my dreams that appears from time to time, and that is the motive of hidden rooms or floors.

I've had this type of dream at least two or three times in my life. It was very interesting for me to see that the place I lived in for example had extra rooms I didn't know about. I remember I got excited, only to wake up and realize it was just a dream!

I think that it represents parts of my mind that I do not have access to.

I think that's possible. Maybe the many happy people working and helping symbolizes that you have helpers or people who support you. Since they were renovating, another possible interpretation may be that you're working hard 'on a higher level' getting rid of 'old stuff' or processing 'old stuff', making space for new experiences. Maybe also interesting:

Finding new space in an apartment/house often symbolizes making room in your inner life: for rest, new experiences, or a shifting identity. Psychologically it is usually linked to reduced stress, emotional release, and a sense of renewed possibility.

Excitement upon discovery often means positive shifts; anxiety hints at facing unknowns.

In Feng Shui, new space creates a vacuum for fresh energy (chi), ideal for welcoming prosperity, harmony, or life goals after clearing old influences.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Anthony]

I had another interesting dream with the house motive this morning. There is one recurrent motive in my dreams that appears from time to time, and that is the motive of hidden rooms or floors. I think that it represents parts of my mind that I do not have access to. In such dreams I am always surprised when I discover such hidden areas in the place that I live. Sometimes they contain some objects, sometimes they are empty.

But this morning the dream was very profound. I was at my father's home, my father was there, and some people were coming to our place. At one point I looked at our house and I saw a door opened. When I looked inside, I saw that something was happening. I went inside, and I saw that there is an opening to the second floor, which doesn't exist in reality. I climbed to the second floor and I saw that there are a lot of people working on the renovation of the discovered second floor. The floor was full of old things, like it was fully preserved from the old times when my grandpa lived. There was my grandpa's bed, in old style with straw as a mattress, and a lot of old guns of his. The house was just full of people that worked on the house, they were very busy and happy to help.

When I woke up, I was wondering why did I have such dream now? Did something happen to me because of some influx of cosmic energies, or have I done something? Well, I wasn't doing anything special, but perhaps I did some combination of things that made some positive effect on me? There are a few things that come to my mind, but I will have to do some experimenting to be sure.

Whenever I dream of a family house, I always have a feeling it has something to do with my personality or beliefs I picked up growing up. It's like the foundation from where your sense of self came, but in the end there are no fixed interpretations and you'd have to explore it yourself to find out what it could mean. I checked out a few books I have on dreams, and found references to themes of houses and finding new rooms, so it's a recurring theme for many people and it's generally positive. I added the excerpts below, so maybe you'll find it helpful, you can use the questions and see what you come up with. The formatting is a bit off when using copy-paste, but I hope it's understandable.

In Your Dreams: Falling, Flying and Other Dream Themes

Your Parents’, Grandparents’, or a Relative’s Home

VARIATIONS

You probably can remember many dreams that took place
at the home of someone you used to visit in your childhood.
Perhaps it was the home of a grandmother, an aunt, an
uncle, or your neighbor’s home. Perhaps it was your par¬
ents’ home. You may be a child again in the dream, but
more likely you are your current age following adventures
that unfold on the porch, in the kitchen, upstairs in the bed¬
room, or anywhere in and around the house, ^he dreams
can be pleasant or unpleasant, but usually they are simply
curious dreams. You wonder, why was I back there again?
Let’s take a look at how others have answered that ques¬
tion.

WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID

You can still find psychoanalysts who interpret dreams that
take place in a home you visited in childhood as a regres-
sion to childhood and a desire to return to the mother.
Most people today, however, pay attention to what was
going on in the dream setting and look for a trigger in your
current life that causes you to reexperience certain feelings
that you associate with this home from your past. Most an¬
alysts ask a dreamer what was going on in the childhood
home and what feelings they experienced during the dream.
Then they look to see what current life circumstances might
be triggering these feelings, which might have had their ori¬
gins in childhood.
If you are dreaming of your childhood home, you would
want to focus on the years you lived in that house because
it’s highly probable that the issues the dream is dealing
with had their origin in that particular period of your life.
When dreaming of a particular person’s house, I think it is
useful to be even more specific and to use the questions
under “People in Dreams” to first get a good description of
the person to whom the house belongs. For example, if you
dream of Aunt Matilda’s house, you would want to know
who Aunt Matilda is and what she was like when you
knew her as well as in what period of your life you visited
her home. You would want to have a good description of
Aunt Matilda, to find out if the attitudes and ways of liv¬
ing pictured by Aunt Matilda’s house are relevant in your
life right now. If going to visit your mother-in-law, for ex¬
ample, feels like going back to visit rigid, strict, unloving
Aunt Matilda, you can imagine why you would dredge up
the memory of Aunt Matilda to dream about your rela¬
tionship with your in-laws. If, on the other hand, Aunt
Matilda was a warm, loving person who understood you
when no one else could, she might remind you of your cur¬
rent husband and how good it feels to go home to him, or
you may find that being with your best friend is very much
like being with Aunt Matilda. As you can see, it all de¬
pends on how you answer your own question's.

WHAT DO YOU SAY?

1. Describe the house in your dream. What years of your life did you
live in or visit that household?
2. Describe the personality of the person whose house you are
dreaming about.
3. Is there anyone in your life or any part of yourself that is like the
owner of your dream house?
4. Try to remember the major issues going on in your life during the
time you lived in that house or visited it regularly.
5. Describe the action that occurs in the dream. Is there any situation
in your current life that is like the action in the dream and that takes
place when you act or feel like the owner of the house?
6. Is there any situation in your current life that is similar to the issues
that were going on at the time you lived in or visited that house?
7. Describe the major people, actions, and feelings that occur during
this dream and ask yourself, What current life situation could bring
these memories back to life?
8. Does this dream help you identify patterns of behavior learned in
childhood that you are now repeating to your own benefit or
detriment in your adult life?

Discovering New Rooms in a House

In general,
most psychotherapists today consider a house as capable
of representing a dreamer’s lifestyle, marriage, emotional
state, or a particular time in the person’s life indicated by
the period of time in which the dreamer lived in the house.
Regarding the finding of new rooms, most dream analysts
would consider this a likely representation of the dream¬
ers’ discovery of new parts of themselves, new potentials
within their personalities, and/or new areas to explore or
to refurbish that have previously been ignored. I have no¬
ticed that such dreams often signal recent progress on the
part of the dreamer in discovering a fuller sense of life or a
fuller sense of self.

WHAT DO YOU SAY?

To find out what your dream of discovering new rooms in a house means, try
asking yourself these questions:

1. Describe the house in your dreams.
2. Does it remind you of any particular house in your life?
3. Describe the new room or rooms you discover.
4. Does this room have a particular purpose?
5. How do you feel about this room?
6. Are you discovering new parts of yourself or of your life that you
would describe as (restate the descriptions of the house and room or
rooms)?

Dreamwork and Self-Healing

House

The rites of passage of the wandering hero eventually conclude with
a return home to a specific place, symbolized in dreams by a house.
Dream images of a house, home, building, or apartment represent
the personality, our inner structure, our life edifice. A house repre￾sents organization within the self, and elements of stability and con￾tinuity over time. The house unifies spirit and matter, connecting
our potentiality and aspirations to our actual, embodied experiences
and memories. The house or home also represents the emotional
atmosphere of the person, couple, or family that dwells in it. I often
ask, “What does this particular house or home remind you of?” It’s
very common to dream of the family home of our childhood, rep￾resenting our deepest roots and origins, a place that always exists
inside us, our core structure. Our childhood home symbolizes the
formative environment from which we emerged, and often repre￾sents central inner attitudes and values. See the Dream of the House
at Lake Tahoe (Chapter Three); the Dream of the House, the Spider’s
Web, and the Old Man’s Daughters (Chapter Nine); the Dream of the
Desert and the House by the Water (Chapter Nine); and the Dream
of a Wildcat in the House (Chapter Six).
Specific areas of a house are meaningful. The ground floor of a
house represents the conscious ego state. Upper floors imply mental
life, thinking, and the higher planes of existence. In the Dream of the
Staircase (Chapter Two), set in a white, suburban house, a man discovers an upper floor symbolizing emergent spiritual potentials.

 

[Mari]

There is one recurrent motive in my dreams that appears from time to time, and that is the motive of hidden rooms or floors.

Reading about your dream and the replies reminds me of this part from ISOTM:

Man lives in one room, the smallest and poorest of all, and until he is told of it, he does not suspect the existence of the other rooms which are full of treasures. When he does learn of this he begins to seek the keys of these rooms and especially of the fourth, the most important, room. And when a man has found his way into this room he really becomes the master of his house, for only then does the house belong to him wholly and forever.