How a psychopath spots a victim

PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

name said:
The crass thing is that since a couple of years I find myself in such a situation again, and no idea of how to get out of it. It is so repetitive of all what I had at "home" yet so unmanageable despite everything I've experienced and learnt and read since then - some of us are probably slower at learning ...
My explanation for this kind of situation, is that one relaxes into the default behavior learned as a child. We become programmed to fit right in with these type of scenarios; somehow they feel right at the same time they feel so wrong.

It's mechanical behavior that enlists the emotions of the old patterning to bring one back to the situations that feel so familiar. What isn't familiar are the people and the setting, but after awhile the patterns become unmistakably clear.

At that point, one might be open to learning about what is really going on. One thing I can say though, is to reiterate what a number of people have already pointed out - that the situation has to be avoided or else one gets drawn in ,and life can go on forever in that way, each one with his or her own designated role, playing one's part to the crack
of doom.

The real challenge, I think, is to reprogram oneself to be attracted to nonpsychopathic people and situations which may not feel comfortable or attractive. The challenge here, as I see it, is that this work is done with the intellect which is attempting to influence the emotions, and the emotions work so much faster, and have such a strong pull...
 
PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

I have often wondered why we don’t start keeping some kind of list of observations we’ve discovered. I am aware this could be rather problematic on one hand, but on the other if we can wade thru some of the “noise” and stuff that won’t amount to anything, we may find a few useful nuggets.

After my recent experience with one whom I now suspect to be a psychopath, I’ve scoured my memory for all the little items that sort of “stuck out”. At the time, I found them to be a little off or odd. Unfortunately, at the time I was totally clueless with regard to psychopathy. In the aftermath I spent two weeks wondering what had just happened. I was intent on trying to sort it all out. For the next few months (after being pointed in the direction of psychopathy) I spent my time reading Hare, Cleckley and Guggenbuhl-Craig and Mary Astor’s “The Incredible Charlie Carawe”, pretty much in that order. Oddly, within three days of ending my association with the suspected psychopath I noticed I felt, overall, much better; mentally and physically. At the time, I chalked it up to “getting out of a bad relationship.” Over the following 12-15 months I was digesting all this new information and I continued reading on the internet. I really had a difficult time of trying to wrap my head around a person, another human being, NOT possessing a conscience.

As I read about other people’s experiences with psychopaths one item frequently mentioned was an energy drain these people experienced. One evening as I lay in bed pondering this I became very agitated with the thought of how could/can another person “steal” energy?? And how was I suppose to find an answer to that one?? (At this point in time, I realize that my energy had been stolen. This really ticked me off. To me it was worse than having my wallet stolen.) That question drove me out of bed and back to the internet. THIS question let me to THIS site. And I found more than I had dreamed!!

One area of curiosity I find revolves around music. We “normies” listen to music and our emotions are affected, generally. What happens when psychopaths listen to/hear music?? (As I have no statistics and little experience, I did note that the psychopath I have to refer to never chose to listen to music, but rather talk radio or television. Further, he refused to dance claiming “two left feet.”) Otherwise, my observation is that they seem to feign interest in music and I suspect music does not affect them at all.

Another observation was that the handful of (suspected) psychopaths seem to have a penchant for “sitcom” television. I wonder if it furthers their lessons on what is/is not acceptable behavior among the “normies”.

I would like to relay my final confrontation with this psychopath. Mind you, I was clueless that I was confronting a psychopath. Somehow, a little luck was on my side and some minor confrontations with the same person added “experience”. (This was a “romantic” two year relationship and previous discussions/confrontations revolved around honesty where I articulated my expectations and perspectives and stated that if “we” were not on the same page, I would understand. I THOUGHT I was dealing with a mature person.)

As I suspected that I was being lied to, I had decided to confront him with it, but I never let on that this confrontation was to happen. My thinking was “don’t give the liar the opportunity to formulate more lies”. I also orchestrated this “confrontation” to take place at a restaurant for three reasons; safety (mine- just in case he became violent, although he never had been in the past), to keep emotions contained (mine and his) and I would be meeting him at his home and I did not want this to take place in the presence of his teenaged son.

So, off we go and I THINK I have mentally prepared myself for anything most likely to take place. I’m prepared to hear: “Annette, I’m sorry”, “Annette, you’re just not the right person for me”, “Annette, I hate your guts”….. yep, I was confident I could handle whatever got thrown my way! Hahahahaha, silly me.

I confront him and expose his lie and, as anticipated, he offers more lies and I call him on those. However, I quickly bring things to the real crux of the matter. (hey, I’m no spring chicken and I’ve been around the block a coupla times and I’m not interested in being involved with someone who doesn’t want to be).

“How do you feel ______? How do you feel about us?” I asked, eyeball to eyeball.

His face slackened somewhat to the point his mouth was open and face expressionless. His eye contact glazed and it was as though he looked past me. Then, slowly, ever so slowly he turned and faced the wall. Expression never changed. It was like he was a robot that one minute was animated, then suddenly switched off. It was one of the most bizarre things I’ve ever witnessed.

I was flabbergasted. One part of me was thinking: I’d expect this kind of behavior from an eight year old, NOT a fifty year old man. This is pathetic! Then I thought, ok we’ll just sit here and wait. I was not about to “put words in his mouth”. At the same time, this inner voice is telling me that there is something terribly wrong with this person. I hear the inner voice, but I’m not paying attention. I certainly wasn’t prepared for THIS!!

Believe it or not, he remained like that for between five and seven minutes. I couldn’t stand it any longer. Incredulously I asked, “You mean to tell me you can’t tell me how you feel?????”

He turned and faced me again and in a very matter of fact manner replied, “No, no I can’t”. Then added, “That’s just me.” At this point the inner voice is no longer “calmly” telling me there’s something wrong here, the inner voice is almost deafening with advice to LEAVE NOW, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ANALYZE THIS NOW!. LEAVE!!!! At this point, I was somewhat frightened and decided I should heed that inner voice.

Reflection upon this with the knowledge I now have leads me to a couple of possibilities. The psychopath was “surprised” by the confrontation (didn’t anticipate it). And somehow (with this particular psychopath) the word “feel” seemed/s to put him into “zombie” mode; totally clueless with regard to the “correct” answer. (After being educated, I was able to recall three other instances with this person where his feelings came into question, and not in a confrontational manner. And, interestingly, I do recall a slight glazing of the eyes and a slowing down, as if he was thinking, but I did find it somewhat odd at the time.)

Now, I bumbled my way in and out of that confrontation, but considering that inner voice, I want to add that I totally agree with the advice to avoid confrontations with psychopaths.

That “inner voice” was throwing red flags all along, marking all those “oddities” that I noticed, but did not pay attention to.

Anyway, I do think compiling some sort of list may hold the possibility of gathering otherwise unnoticed “clues.”
 
PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

One area of curiosity I find revolves around music. We “normies” listen to music and our emotions are affected, generally. What happens when psychopaths listen to/hear music?? (As I have no statistics and little experience, I did note that the psychopath I have to refer to never chose to listen to music, but rather talk radio or television. Further, he refused to dance claiming “two left feet.”) Otherwise, my observation is that they seem to feign interest in music and I suspect music does not affect them at all.
Knowing few musicians, I already separated those who feel the music "normies :p" and those who do music mathematically and technically. Is it a clue? I don't know. But it seems to me that not all who listen to music can be qualified as "normy". Others can play it emotionnaly affected too.

Another point is that sometimes, even with a sense of danger, and when we face the emptiness of the psychopath and how "it" manipulates our life, two main reactions could occure : denial and shame. Shame to be fooled that pushes our ego into denial. Avoiding a psychopath after being caught in his agenda can be a struggle against self ego too.
 
PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

Annette1 said:
Anyway, I do think compiling some sort of list may hold the possibility of gathering otherwise unnoticed “clues.”
Annette - on its face that may be a good idea but predators use NLP, mind control and trance inducing methods to bypass your ability to notice these clues... which would make a list moot.
 
PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

One area of curiosity I find revolves around music. We “normies” listen to music and our emotions are affected, generally. What happens when psychopaths listen to/hear music?? (As I have no statistics and little experience, I did note that the psychopath I have to refer to never chose to listen to music, but rather talk radio or television. Further, he refused to dance claiming “two left feet.”) Otherwise, my observation is that they seem to feign interest in music and I suspect music does not affect them at all.
Yes that is a very interesting point. What a synchronicity; I just happened to listen to William Cooper's 'Mystery Babylon' series on the train, which I have on my portable mp3-player, and in this particular episode(can't remember which one-maybe nr 20 or so) he gives this remark which went something like this: "I just can't understand those people, who don't agree that music directly touches the soul of man. I mean, this is just impossible for me to understand in any other way, than these people don't have a soul!

In my career in the music business I have seen these people who just perform, sometimes very well in technical terms, but who totally lack any feeling for the music. Some of these individuals, I have found, behave very closely to the descriptions of psychopaths - so maybe there is a connection. I remember my agent(soon to be former!), who I've written about earlier-and who I believe is a p.p., stating how "Music is boring, it's supposed to be boring!"

I'll keep my eyes and ears open. Maybe I can gather some more evidence on this.
 
PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

Talking about synchronicity, i was a weak ago at a couple of friends who happen to be musicians. The girl plays in philharmonic orchestras and so on. At a moment she made me listen to mozart, and i suddenly noticed that she was observing me. When i turned towards her she asked me what i was feeling. So I described it as usual with my funny style of using hands while talking. She then told me with a sort of worry in the eyes that "some can play mozart but do not feel anything". Apart the disturbing thoght of being tested, i think she observing something. Sorry to return back to this music point while the post is about something else?
 
PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

For me, the thing that makes them stand out most is the "small victories" - the conscious use of normals' emotions to make us feel bad, with tone-of-voice, facial expressions, etc. It's as if they were a martian with a notepad, looking at you, thinking "Ah! I know this one. Let's see, a small frown should do the trick here."

I'd like to respectfully disagree with the idea that they're difficult to spot - granted, you can't pick them out from a crowd, but when you interact with them the button-pressing stands out like a sore thumb. Normal people just don't do that. "By their works shall ye know them", you might say. Or, if you're a Lovecraft fan, "As a foulness shall ye know them." :)

More generally, the different motivations give them away. For example, I've known several that would spin out their sentence when they notice you've stopped to listen - again, normal people don't do that, we'd be too embarrassed to waste someone's time. With the psychopath, of course, making people stop, go, come here, go there is all part of the game.

With regard to the humour - this is definitely a good thing, they absolutely _hate_ it. When they try something that's previously made you upset, and you just look at them and smile a genuine smile, and laugh, whilst thinking "Oh yes, well done, that was quite upsetting. Aren't you a clever little psycho." The peevish, annoyed expression is priceless, you almost want to say "hang on, aren't you supposed to be pretending to be normal or something?" When their tricks stop working, they frantically try a bunch of different things, seemingly unable to grasp that now you know it's deliberate it can never work again. It reminds me of the scene from Terminator 2 where the shape-shifting robot is dissolving in a pool of molten metal, frantically changing shape to find something that works.

With regard to the sitcoms and soap operas - I'd like to speculate that perhaps this is how they see us - a kind of claustrophobic close-up that exaggerates the faults and foibles of the person in frame. This would fit with their ability to find and use weaknesses, and also perhaps with their expressed disgust. The thing that makes me say this is the British comedy show "Little Britain" - I'm fairly certain that one of the actor/writers is a psychopath, and the show is based on horrible, grotesque fish-eye-lens caricatures.
 
PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

ark said:
Isabel said:
They are charming and experts at getting what they want. If you don't want to give it, they are experts in making out you are at fault because of this. Because they observe clearly and accurately, being unfazed by emotional response (which they do not possess), the smallest detail will not go unnoticed.
While the above is true, they are not that powerful as it may sound. After a while it is not so difficult to recognize a psychopath. One thing to look at are double standards. For instance they would use kind of dirty methods to get you - but whenever you are doing something that would endanger their dominion, they would accuse YOU of using the method that THEY use all the time.

This is something very easy to spot. While the above is not a property uniquely characterizing the psychopaths, it is a property that, once you notice it in someone, is a sufficient reason to leave and move away as far as possible. Not only that. It is also our duty to tell aloud other people about what we noticed - in order to help the potential other victims.

I think that exchanging our observations and experiences, discussing particular examples of this kind of double talk, examples taken from our lives, may help a lot. This would be a valuable addition to the theoretical and general guidelines.
Whilst in the normal run of things I would seek to warn others if their was danger etc around I think warning others of psychopaths is difficult. If they are of the clever variety and well ensconced into the social network then you will often become the villain of the piece. I lost a good friend by trying to do this she at first believed and even confirmed she had noticed the same things I had but it seemed important to the psychopath to isolate me completely and the 'team' set to work to get her over to the 'dark side' so to speak. I kind of thought they would do this but it still shocked me. It depends on your circumstances but I knew there was nothing further to be gained and I was emotionally drained so I mentally walked away from it. I have to come into brief contact with them most days They are all very pleased with themselves having proved I am the loony and they are the victims!
 
PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

I think It's important to remember, as Ouspensky pointed out, that we do not DO anything! Psychopaths do not steal our energy and we do not let them. Things happen to us. With this in mind, it is safe to say we do not need to forgive anyone or be angry with anyone, including ourselves. There is nothing to forgive. Psychopaths are machines that receive energy from machines who give it to them. When we cease to be machines, energy will no longer be transferred from "us" to "them". Psychopaths push our buttons. As we do the work, We will eliminate our triggers and it will actually be quite comical. OSISTM (or so it seems to me).
Pleasant dreams.
 
PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

The best way is to do nothing. Right from the word go when you realise what is happening. Do not attempt to point out what is happening . Stand back and watch but dont let on. Do not respond to button pushing by the psycopaths. Imagine thieir anger when they go to press your buttons and find they get no response. You are then in control. They will know you know and be unable to cause distress by further isolating you. This is how a group I came into contact worked and unfortunately i being unware of how to deal with it reacted with visible distress and sadness. They responded by smiling and twisting the knife and I ignoring them finally...... was pointed out as the bully for ignoring them!
 
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yet another dave said:
I'd like to respectfully disagree with the idea that they're difficult to spot - granted, you can't pick them out from a crowd, but when you interact with them the button-pressing stands out like a sore thumb.

That may be true of what we refer to as a "failed psychopath", but the "successful psychopath" wears a far more convincing and difficult-to-detect "mask of sanity". I'm sure that many a "successful psychopath" has managed to slip under your radar, just like the rest of us. And therein lies the problem: If you've convinced yourself that a psychopath couldn't possibly "fool" you, due to your assumed knowledge of their outward "traits", you are leaving yourself wide open and vulnerable to the successful psychopath who does not display those traits, at least not openly....

Welcome to the forum, by the way. Seeing as this is your first post, could you post a little introduction in the Newbies section, telling us a little bit about yourself, what has brought you to this forum, how long you've been reading it, whether you've read any of Laura's work yet, etc.

:)
 
Re: PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

PepperFritz said:
That may be true of what we refer to as a "failed psychopath", but the "successful psychopath" wears a far more convincing and difficult-to-detect "mask of sanity". I'm sure that many a "successful psychopath" has managed to slip under your radar, just like the rest of us. And therein lies the problem: If you've convinced yourself that a psychopath couldn't possibly "fool" you, due to your assumed knowledge of their outward "traits", you are leaving yourself wide open and vulnerable to the successful psychopath who does not display those traits, at least not openly....

I'm certainly not advocating complacency, or claiming that no psychopath could possibly fool me - did I really sound so stupid and arrogant? ;)

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that IMO the psychopath's almost magical-seeming ability to pass unnoticed is mainly due to the fact that most people don't know that they exist. Once you know that there are these "type 2 humans" out there, a lot of them are fairly easy to spot, and the more you interact with them, the more likely you are to notice, because normal people just don't do the game-playing and the button-pressing.
 
Re: PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that IMO the psychopath's almost magical-seeming ability to pass unnoticed is mainly due to the fact that most people don't know that they exist. Once you know that there are these "type 2 humans" out there, a lot of them are fairly easy to spot, and the more you interact with them, the more likely you are to notice, because normal people just don't do the game-playing and the button-pressing.


Successful psychopaths work sideways. What does that mean? It means they operate through influence from the shadows where you will never interact or be able to observe them closely. They like to be 'the power behind the throne'. When you see an incompetent person in a high position, don't bother with the idiot, look who he listens to. ;)

Even then, the really good ones can spin a person in circles. Chances are, you've never met one, because they are that good at hiding themselves. By operating through influence, indirectly, they save most of their energy to deflect, remove, or reduce any chance of discovery. They make themselves masters of these things, as a kind of insulation against discovery.

This is why I don't think you've ever met a successful psychopath.
 
Re: PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

yet another dave said:
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that IMO the psychopath's almost magical-seeming ability to pass unnoticed is mainly due to the fact that most people don't know that they exist. Once you know that there are these "type 2 humans" out there, a lot of them are fairly easy to spot....

Again, that is probably true in the case of most failed psychopaths. But successful ones are another breed entirely. Even some of those who have been incarcerated for criminal acts have been able to fool highly perceptive and skilled professionals who have spent a lifetime studying psychopathy, such as Dr. Robert Hare. With such individuals, it does not matter if you know about the existence of psychopaths, or how many psychopaths you may have met and dealt with in your life. The successful psychopath is extremely skilled, with an almost impenetrable "mask of sanity". As suggested by Gimpy, they tend to work "sideways", usually through others, at a distance, and rarely get their hands dirty.

yet another dave said:
...and the more you interact with them, the more likely you are to notice, because normal people just don't do the game-playing and the button-pressing.

It sounds as though you are describing your garden-variety Narcissist, or at most a fairly incompetent failed Psychopath. Your strong belief that you have the ability to "spot" the true and successful Psychopath, because of your experience with Narccisists and failed Psychopaths, could leave you extremely vulnerable to to the real thing. So it's important that you learn about ALL of the varieties along the Narcissist-Sociopath-Psychopath continuum, and at least consider that you may not have the detection abilities that you think you do.

Have you read Andrew M. Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology yet? If not, I would strongly suggest that you do so as soon as possible, as it will add to your knowledge base considerably.
 
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One must keep in mind the influence of psychopaths upon normal people, influences which have indeed affected us all since childhood through educational, political and religious institutions. Their effect on behavior and mindset of normal people adds to the difficulty of discerning who is who.
 

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