How a psychopath spots a victim

[thevenusian]

A very interesting question. I mentioned this in another context in a different thread, but as anecdotal evidence of such, I knew an advanced practitioner of martial arts who used his knowledge of 'attack prevention' to walk in really bad neighborhoods at night- not to provoke attacks and prove his ability, but rather to practice being invisible. To walk amongst trouble without inviting it in or having to engage with it. In a sense, this would seem to be an extreme example of how knowledge can protect. I know from my own limited experience working in troubled areas with predators roaming at large that having & feeling confidence to some degree definitely communicates a message to predators to stay away or at least think twice. In my limited experience most predators prefer to choose easier prey which requires less effort on their part.
But this certainly required effort on my part to build that confidence in myself. I'm not sure it would be effected just by surface changes in gait or posture. I suspect you have to actually feel it within yourself, which requires effort, sweat and practice.

 

[vinny]

One wonders, of course, if an individual were to have their posture, gait and other body movements analyzed, and worked on correction, if this would have a somatapsychic effect. That is, would it help to alleviate whatever is inside them that makes the act/look like a victim? You know, kind of like "stand up straight and tall, move with confidence" and it will make you feel straight and tall and confident?

I have to say that this has worked well for me. One such way of doing this is through Rolfing.

But this certainly required effort on my part to build that confidence in myself. I'm not sure it would be effected just by surface changes in gait or posture.

I think it is simply another thing that can be added to your 'armoury', (in addition to, for example, working knowledge of how psychopaths operate and how to defend yourself against it). The physical, emotional and intellectual bodies are deeply linked and changes in one area can be reflected in another area. For example, how 'brain fog' can be hugely helped via physical detox and dietary changes.

I suspect you have to actually feel it within yourself, which requires effort, sweat and practice.

Rolfing, for example, does indeed require 'effort, sweat and practice', because it is a process of adjusting your body, re-training dormant muscles, and re-wiring deep-seated brain patterns that govern posture. And what better motivation for attempting to maintain continual observation of yourself, and apply some sustained effort. Think of it as another aspect of 'doing the Work' within the normal activities that life gives you the opportunity to do.

 

[truth seeker]

For what it's worth, I think there is something to be said for changing the awareness of how a person carries theirself. I think that if one is mindful at the same time as to what their thoughts are, the behavior can change over time but both have to be practiced. If only the first is done, the person will at some point slip back into the old method.

In terms of who psychopaths choose. I think it's basically a matter of who's currently available. Are there some people who they'd prefer to victimize over others? I have no doubt but I think they will try with just about anyone even other (lesser?) psychopaths. It's a behavior so deeply ingrained that I think they can't help how they act towards others.

The crux, which has been discussed is how the perceived victim reacts to the situation. If a person puts up the appropriate boundaries (even if that means walking away), the psychopath will (hopefully) lose interest. Another point: it must be done as soon as possible so as not to hook them. I think once the understanding is given that the person will tolerate the various behaviors, it becomes much more difficult to get rid of them. If they have a food source, they won't let go without a struggle.

 

[vinny]

Another point: it must be done as soon as possible so as not to hook them. I think once the understanding is given that the person will tolerate the various behaviors, it becomes much more difficult to get rid of them. If they have a food source, they won't let go without a struggle.

A very good point. And if you don't make a stand straight away, then the psychopath will immediately go to work putting their own emotional hooks in place (fear, charm, embarrassment, whatever is required), which then makes it much harder to disengage.

 

[go2]

One wonders, of course, if an individual were to have their posture, gait and other body movements analyzed, and worked on correction, if this would have a somatapsychic effect. That is, would it help to alleviate whatever is inside them that makes the act/look like a victim? You know, kind of like "stand up straight and tall, move with confidence" and it will make you feel straight and tall and confident?

Would it be treating the symptom, rather than the underlying cause? It might work until a crisis or simply time and inattention allow the old "programs" reassert their control. I think martial arts, meditation, Rolfing, massage, diet, breathing etc. facilitate rewiring the brain by highlighting "programs" and making rewiring more bearable, but these practices are not the rewiring itself except in so far as they require "conscious labor". It seems a little like building ones house on sand or putting new wine in an old skin, to use the Biblical reference. Anyway that has been my experience trying the easier softer way. fwiw

 

[vinny]

One wonders, of course, if an individual were to have their posture, gait and other body movements analyzed, and worked on correction, if this would have a somatapsychic effect. That is, would it help to alleviate whatever is inside them that makes the act/look like a victim? You know, kind of like "stand up straight and tall, move with confidence" and it will make you feel straight and tall and confident?

Would it be treating the symptom, rather than the underlying cause? It might work until a crisis or simply time and inattention allow the old "programs" reassert their control. I think martial arts, meditation, Rolfing, massage, diet, breathing etc. facilitate rewiring the brain by highlighting "programs" and making rewiring more bearable, but these practices are not the rewiring itself except in so far as they require "conscious labor". It seems a little like building ones house on sand or putting new wine in an old skin, to use the Biblical reference. Anyway that has been my experience trying the easier softer way. fwiw

If it achieves its goal, of stopping someone being a victim, because they no longer appear vulnerable, then it has to be worth it. Even if it is only one step towards internal development. Being constantly victimised sure can put a crimp on someone's 'lesson options'.

Of course, as you suggest, fixing the body alone, without also working on the other aspects, would be a poor idea, and counter to 4th way principles. Working on oneself requires a multi-level approach, and I don't think for a moment that Laura was suggesting otherwise. Just that this, above, might provide an extra 'angle' to add to all the other things, which could be helpful. And when applying this 'multi-pronged' approach, breakthroughs in one area can lead to a progress in another area, because everything is interconnected.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

If it achieves its goal, of stopping someone being a victim, because they no longer appear vulnerable, then it has to be worth it. Even if it is only one step towards internal development. Being constantly victimised sure can put a crimp on someone's 'lesson options'.

Plus, it's simply part of Strategic Enclosure.

Because of millennia of cultural and religious conditioning, everything about us is limited, beginning with our nervous resistance. The rule which can be deduced from this is that we must - as much as possible - work silently so as not to draw increased attention and pressure upon ourselves while working on the process of awakening and assimilating knowledge and interior force that can restore us to the Edenic condition. This is true for the average Radiant being, because if he attracts the attention of what Mouravieff calls the General Law that mechanically rules this reality, he will be lost, as the reaction of the 'World' against him will be extreme.

We need to put up a "front" to remain safe and relatively unmolested by others, which includes predators. I agree with Laura that consistent conscious correction of certain external behaviors can have an impact on the real inner roots of those behaviors. After all, we're not merely imitating confidence by walking a specific way, part of being believable (ask any good actor!) is to feel what it is we are trying to "act", so that means constant effort to make ourselves feel more confident and comfortable with ourselves, and that in and of itself is already more than just a "skin deep" or "external" correction.

You know how what we wear impacts how we behave and think? When you wear a freshly pressed shirt, a suit, nice shoes, and so on, you feel "like a million bucks" and it reflects in your behavior. If you wear an old smelly t-shirt and some other less appealing/attractive clothing, it makes us feel and behave with less confidence. Well, this sudden boost of assertiveness, confidence, self-respect and comfort with ourselves and around others that we get from wearing something we and others perceive as clean, respectable, and attractive is an interesting phenomenon - it's an internal change bourne of entirely ar

You know how what we wear, for but one example, impacts how we behave and think and feel? When you wear a freshly pressed shirt, a suit, nice shoes, and so on, you feel "like a million bucks" and it reflects in your behavior. If you wear an old smelly t-shirt and some other less appealing/attractive clothing, it makes us feel and behave with less confidence, we may tend to slouch, look down more, be less assertive, and overall just less comfortable with ourselves and our environment. Well, this sudden boost of assertiveness, confidence, self-respect and comfort with ourselves and around others that we get from wearing something we and others perceive as clean, respectable, and attractive is an interesting phenomenon - it's an internal change that happens from entirely external factors. We "behave" as we think others expect us to. If you're in an African tribe and you wear a suit and nice Armani shoes or something, you'll probably be laughed at, and it will not have the same effect on your psyche as wearing a clown suit in the western civilization. So there's it's definitely subjective - it's all cultural expectations and our own conditioning of same. We know that certain external factors make people treat us a certain way and assume certain things about us (hence all the advice for job interviews focuses on those external factors to not just boost our own confidence but create an impression for the interviewer), and because we KNOW this, it makes us literally act and feel the part!

However, it is entirely silly that such arbitrary external factors like nice shoes can have such powerful affect on how we feel about ourselves and behave. It definitely shows us just how mechanical and dependant we are on "approval" of others before we allow ourselves to feel good and confident, and it's ridiculous! And I think that one way to definitely make a dent in this problem, is by consciously correcting the behaviors AND the feelings that stem from such subjective conditioned factors. Allow yourself to wear something that doesn't scream "respect" and still act and feel as if you're wearing a million dollar suit! It doesn't mean arrogance or self-importance, it just means being "comfortable in your own shoes", not allowing others to dictate how you feel about yourself, not allowing your psyche to be "brought down" which reflects in all those subtle and not so subtle submissive and "victim-like" behaviors and cues we exhibit.

I mean sure one reason to not maintain eye contact or look down is because we're just deep in thought, so of course rule of 3 applies - "victim-like" behaviors are only that when they are triggered from a "victim-like" psyche. We can also not maintain eye contact and look down because we're afraid of possible "mental confrontation" just by looking at someone, or lack confidence and self-esteem, are afraid of intimacy (just looking at someone else's eyes is already intimate) - and predators pick up on this because such "weak" inner states result in very mechanical and predictable external behaviors, albeit unconscious to us. So to wrap it up, I'd say we should work on correcting not just the behavior, but our state of mind - always try to feel like "a million bucks" - not selfish/arrogant, but just impervious to being "brought down" by anyone or anything. We're in charge of how good, confident, and comfortable we feel - and won't allow the environment or others to control that within us. Sticks and stones may break our bones, but that's it, no one, nothing else will.

And I am confident that consistent conscious self-correction does work on a deeper level if it is consistent and sincere. It's funny to call "strategic enclosure" as something sincere, but it actually is driven by a sincere desire to grow and become self-empowered, as well as a sincere external considering for others. Strategic enclosure doesn't just allow the Work to take place, in many ways it also IS Work, since it requires constant vigilance of our behavior and feelings and thoughts, and results in increasing self-control and perspicacity. This becomes easier and more "habitual" over time, and I think it results in us truly being more able to have better control of our psyche and not let the environment and others tell us how to behave, what to feel, what to think about ourselves, to force us to be self-conscious in a negative judgmental sort of way, how to react to external factors, etc. It results in awesome benefits for both, others, and ourselves. That makes it worth it in and of itself! But coupled with the rest of what Work entails, and it's ridiculous what can be accomplished in a lifetime!

 

[piranah]

Re: Psychopaths: They Take Advantage of Your Perceptions Be Aware

Piranah, did the site owner write this piece? It is hard to follow as the wording/meaning is at times ambiguous. I can understand one can write in an ambiguous way because I've done it, but mercy, this is a mish-mash that isn't clear in its directive and intent if it is to relate to predator awareness.

hi kannas yes it is confusing but then again after an experince with such a character I guess we are confused and frightened. It reads true though and I got something from it as you note the part about not judging on anothers say so. I am so grateful for everyones posting and am on the path towards truth each article or quote or book I read takes me further and I believe my understanding came for a reason. It can be so lonely and traumatic recovering from encounters with psychopaths. I hope to heal and help others to heal one day with the information I recover. I heard today a play on the radio telling of the preacher Jim Jones and the horriffic way he took all those intelligent sensitive people on a journey to their deaths. None of them would have believed when they first went along with him that they would end up dead bloated in that far away place killing their own children. They fell under a spell and his evil corruptness was enhanced by their gullilble independance or need for that false community. We had best all beware we do not fall victim to our own emotions.

 

[anart]

Re: Psychopaths: They Take Advantage of Your Perceptions Be Aware

Piranah, did the site owner write this piece? It is hard to follow as the wording/meaning is at times ambiguous. I can understand one can write in an ambiguous way because I've done it, but mercy, this is a mish-mash that isn't clear in its directive and intent if it is to relate to predator awareness.

hi kannas yes it is confusing but then again after an experince with such a character I guess we are confused and frightened.

That's true, but it really helps for an author writing about this subject to be clear, since the PTSD of victims of psychopaths can result in difficulty in concentrating at times, and I agree with kannas that the article posted was really hard to follow.

It reads true though and I got something from it as you note the part about not judging on anothers say so. I am so grateful for everyones posting and am on the path towards truth each article or quote or book I read takes me further and I believe my understanding came for a reason. It can be so lonely and traumatic recovering from encounters with psychopaths. I hope to heal and help others to heal one day with the information I recover. I heard today a play on the radio telling of the preacher Jim Jones and the horriffic way he took all those intelligent sensitive people on a journey to their deaths. None of them would have believed when they first went along with him that they would end up dead bloated in that far away place killing their own children. They fell under a spell and his evil corruptness was enhanced by their gullilble independance or need for that false community. We had best all beware we do not fall victim to our own emotions.

Have you had a chance to read Political Ponerology by Andrew Lobaczewski yet? It goes into some detail about 'spell binders' - and can help you to understand how things like Jonestown happen -though the CIA involvement in that tragedy had more to do with those children dying than the people 'killing their own children' -but that's a discussion for another thread (and has been discussed in several threads if you'd like to search 'Jonestown' in the search engine)!

 

[Laura]

I don't think it is exactly treating the symptoms and not the cause... I was thinking a little more deeply, you know like "fake it 'til you make it" sort of thing.

 

[slowone]

One wonders, of course, if an individual were to have their posture, gait and other body movements analyzed, and worked on correction, if this would have a somatapsychic effect. That is, would it help to alleviate whatever is inside them that makes the act/look like a victim? You know, kind of like "stand up straight and tall, move with confidence" and it will make you feel straight and tall and confident?

I have to say that this has worked well for me. One such way of doing this is through Rolfing.

But this certainly required effort on my part to build that confidence in myself. I'm not sure it would be effected just by surface changes in gait or posture.

I think it is simply another thing that can be added to your 'armoury', (in addition to, for example, working knowledge of how psychopaths operate and how to defend yourself against it). The physical, emotional and intellectual bodies are deeply linked and changes in one area can be reflected in another area. For example, how 'brain fog' can be hugely helped via physical detox and dietary changes.

I suspect you have to actually feel it within yourself, which requires effort, sweat and practice.

Rolfing, for example, does indeed require 'effort, sweat and practice', because it is a process of adjusting your body, re-training dormant muscles, and re-wiring deep-seated brain patterns that govern posture. And what better motivation for attempting to maintain continual observation of yourself, and apply some sustained effort. Think of it as another aspect of 'doing the Work' within the normal activities that life gives you the opportunity to do.

I would think any physical work that worked deep into the very body of the muscle and fascia would effect quite profound change on many levels. I have had Rolfing done to me after surgery and it was very deep work!

I know in Yoga teaching that a deep physical practice with slow holds, lots of forward bends etc, leaves you feeling entirely different energetically than say a very energetic round of Sun Salutations. That change in energy and mood is palpable even after the physical practice is over.

The fact that you need really to practice daily suggests that it needs to be constantly applied but you can actually feel the change in energy in a class just by changing the postures taught. For instance Backbends are very uplifting and confidence building opening the chest, as opposed to the shoulders slumped forward chest concaved slightly defeated stance many people exhibit when they are depressed. Simply by practicing them and other exercises you could appear more confident until you are more confident?

I would think that as part of a multi layered approach there could be real benefits to at least being much more aware of the bodies signals.

These quotes came back to me from "Women who run with Wolves" Clarissa Pinkola Estes.

" In systems of work such as the Feldenkrais method, Ayurveda and others, the body is understood variously as having six senses, not five. The body uses its skin and deeper fascia and flesh to record all that goes on around it. Like the rosetta stone, for those who know how to read it, the body is a living record of life given, life taken, life hoped for, life healed. \it is valued for its articulate ability to register immediate reaction, to feel profoundly, to sense ahead".........

" The body remembers, the bones remember, the joints remember, even the little finger remembers. Memory is lodged in pictures and feelings in the cells themselves. Like a sponge filled with water, anywhere the flesh is pressed, wrung, even touched lightly, a memory may flow out like a stream."......

"Some say the soul informs the body. But what if we were given to imagine for a moment that the body informs the soul? Helps it adapt to mundane life, parses,translates, gives the blank page, the ink, and the pen with which the soul can write upon our lives? Suppose, as in fairy tales of the shapechangers, the body is a god in its own right, a teacher, a mentor, a certified guide?.........

"The body is the rocket launcher. In its nose capsule, the soul looks out the window into the mysterious starry night and is dazzled."

It struck me that "for those who are able to read it......" includes our psychopathic friends as well as those who would use that ability to heal.

 

[Buddy]

I don't think it is exactly treating the symptoms and not the cause... I was thinking a little more deeply, you know like "fake it 'til you make it" sort of thing.

I don't see why not. That hermetic axiom "as above, so below" seems to be at work everywhere.

When I self-observe, I notice that when I do my thinking in pictures and words, there is the constant subvocalization of my thoughts. The body moves internally quite a lot as I 'think'. Conversely, there are times when moving around deliberately, makes thinking a bit easier. Keeping this in mind, that thoughts are not intangible qualia, but rather complex motor behaviours - one quickly comes to understand and appreciate the harsh physical disciplines that accompany most Work systems. Many of these Work systems just approach the goal from different directions, as the Yogi do starting with the physical, working up to the still mind, osit.

Rolfing, Aragorn's Notes from my course in Bioenergetics, slowone's quotes from "Women who run with Wolves",

Even Gawan's quote in another thread:

Another thought is coming up, being angry is like stiffness, closed and to be creative like calmness, being open.

...are all clues that point to how the whole being works as a system and how the physical can be reflecting what's going on in the mind - possibly even hinting at possible beliefs and emotional states, "for those who are able to read it....", as Clarissa Pinkola Estes writes in that quote from slowone.

Considering this quote:

[quote author=http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/political_ponerology_lobaczewski.htm]
Now, what beliefs did I hold that made me a victim of a psychopath? The first and most obvious one is that I truly believed that deep inside, all people are basically “good” and that they “want to do good, to experience good things, think good thoughts, and make decisions with good results. And they try with all their might to do so…”[/quote]

...and the fact that I used to have that same belief, along with many others I'm sure, I probably expressed that belief physically, with some kind of naive, openness, trusting behavior that a psychopath could pick up on.

To me, the Work isn't a matter of considering the cerebral or anything else as playing a role in the Work distinct from any other part, it's a matter of using it at full power, together with the visceral, also used at full power, to achieve richer perception, deeper knowledge and better protection. Right now, it comes and goes, but I'm hoping that one day the state will be permanent.

Self-observation and the knowledge from all our research and experience that is posted here, really helps this picture come together, because everything's related, in my view.

As Ark has said: Balance is necessary in all things. (the system grows holistically) :)

 

[go2]

I don't think it is exactly treating the symptoms and not the cause... I was thinking a little more deeply, you know like "fake it 'til you make it" sort of thing.

Touche.... :)

 

[piranah]

Re: Psychopaths: They Take Advantage of Your Perceptions Be Aware

Thanks annart. I have ordered the book from my library. I have been meaning to read it. I only have short bursts of access to the library computer so I value any information I am able to glean. It has kept me sane to delve deeper and understand how manipulation and pathology works. PTSD affects me too still. I had just got over postnatal depression when I started to work out all the issues in my particular case. It knocked me back. But I am glad I am starting to connect the dots and will be stronger and a more difficult nut to crack in future.



Tthe page I located the information was on this link. I guess we have to be careful also where we get info as some of the predators are acting as victims. Though as with Sam Vaknin we can find out valid information we just have to look carefully at what is being said.
http://predator-awareness.healthylifestylegeek.com/psychopathic-predator-identification/

 

[aragorn]

Re: Psychopaths: They Take Advantage of Your Perceptions Be Aware

Thanks annart. I have ordered the book from my library. I have been meaning to read it. I only have short bursts of access to the library computer so I value any information I am able to glean. It has kept me sane to delve deeper and understand how manipulation and pathology works. PTSD affects me too still. I had just got over postnatal depression when I started to work out all the issues in my particular case. It knocked me back. But I am glad I am starting to connect the dots and will be stronger and a more difficult nut to crack in future.

They have Political Ponerology in your local library - that's great! Or did I understand you correctly...?