How a psychopath spots a victim

Buddy said:
Bundy could tell a victim by the tilt of her head as she walked.

Fwiw, reading this made me think of the main character structures defined by Ida Rolf and used also in Bionergetics. The definitions and classifications are of course simplifications and archetypes; there are many "levels" and combinations of these types. But the holding and tilting of the head is one of the clearest markers of the "body type". As a quick, and very rough hypothesis I would say that the most easily bullied and recognizable character type is the oral character(I've put in bold some points that are maybe relevant to this discussion):

2. Oral – the collapsed character structure, 0-18months

Background:

The time of infancy, after birth, is insecure and unprotected. The oral structure develops when the child's needs are not fulfilled. The environment doesn't seem intimidating enough to develop a downright fear of dying (cf. Schizoid). The Oral character feels a greater sense of having a right to live than the Schizoid. There are many unsatisfying elements and a lot of futile waiting in life, e.g. too much time spent alone, unsatisfying eating situations, a lot of crying alone, a lot of giving up, bad breastfeeding memories, no one around to comfort and hold in the lap. A strong sense of disappointment and longing.

Body structure:

- Collapsed shoulders and neck (If you look at the image you'll see that the head is also protruded forward)
- Face and eyes exhibit strong sense of longing
- The breath doesn't reach the upper part of the lungs
- Root of tongue locked
- Locked knees
- A “needy” mouth
- Feeble arms
- A lot of tension in the neck (not because of control, but because of collapsed structure)
- General appearance/impression is needy

Psychology:

- Doesn't recognize her own problems; the answers and causes are always to be found outside
- Searcher/seeker; everything good happens always somewhere else
- Expects always too much or too little, not very realistic [bipolar disorder?]
- Primary message: “Give to me!”
- Helplessness; gives up easily when faced with a crisis ("I will not succeed anyway") and lets others come up with solutions and actions
- Hedonist
- Smoker (a “needy” mouth)
- Vivid imagination and a daydreamer; has learned to entertain herself (often lonely as a child)
- Doesn't “stand on her own feet”; looks up to authorities
- Has a feeling of something missing. Always seeking for love, but gives up when getting close of finding it; gets a crush easily.
- Work: creativity, art, writing and ideas (lots of ideas but is shortsighted)
- Primary feeling: “I haven't got/received enough”
- The mode of crying is most often self-pitying sobbing
- Wants always feedback and recognition/credit for her actions

I think that the schizoid character is also vulnerable and certainly recognizable(all sorts of misalignment and skewness), but from the definitions you get the picture that they are more like "loners" and have a "hard shell". In my younger years I was a classic example of an oral character, one could spot my poor posture mails away, and I certainly was easily bullied by people!
 
One item i have always noticed is this type of personality, is that it thrives on and moves on taking "kindness as a weakness" and using it to there advantage to manipulate their victims for gain and or destruction on all fronts ! Also (which was typical ) when there confronted with their behavior that they flip it around and become aggressive and defensive of the questioning of there deceptive activity to control their victim ! Like what you talking, about as if your are the one who is insane.
 
Yep, If I'm not mistaken, I believe that's called gaslighting. I never knew the word for it, but I ran across the term in one of Jerry's posts, and when I went to look it up, it seemed to fit (thanks, Jerry).



ref:
In her 1980 book The Best Kept Secret: Sexual Abuse of Children, Florence Rush summarizes George Cukor's 1944 film version of Gas Light, and wrote, "even today the word [gaslight] is used to describe an attempt to destroy another's perception of reality."
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting
 
Buddy said:
Yep, If I'm not mistaken, I believe that's called gaslighting. I never knew the word for it, but I ran across the term in one of Jerry's posts, and when I went to look it up, it seemed to fit (thanks, Jerry).

ref:
In her 1980 book The Best Kept Secret: Sexual Abuse of Children, Florence Rush summarizes George Cukor's 1944 film version of Gas Light, and wrote, "even today the word [gaslight] is used to describe an attempt to destroy another's perception of reality."
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

If you're interested, you should see the movie, it's really good. Not sure if you have cable, but they tend to play it on TCM (Turner Classic Movies) every now and again. I think it"s a good illustration of the lengths some people will go through to get what they want.
 
I, too, enjoyed the movie, which stars a young Ingrid Bergman as the victim of her pathological husband's efforts to drive her crazy.

Just for the record, for those who are unfamiliar with this term, I think it would be helpful to include more of the definition available on Wikipedia:

Gaslighting is a form of intimidation or psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim, making them doubt their own memory and perception.

The classic example of gaslighting is to change things in a person's environment without their knowledge, and to explain that they "must be imagining things" when they challenge these changes.[2] Similarly, the Manson Family, during their "creepy crawler" burglaries of the late 1960s, would enter homes and steal nothing, but would rearrange furniture to upset and confuse residents.[3]

According to psychologists Gass and Nichols,[4] another relatively frequent form of gaslighting occurs when a husband has cheated on a wife. The husband may strenuously deny the affair and insist "I'm not lying; you're just imagining things." Further "male therapists may contribute to the women's distress through mislabeling the women's reactions. [...] The gaslighting behaviors of the husband provide a recipe for the so-called 'nervous breakdown' for some women [and] suicide in some of the worst situations."

Psychologist Martha Stout[5] explains how sociopaths frequently use gaslighting tactics. Sociopaths are often cruel, manipulative or conniving, and moreover are often convincing liars who consistently deny wrongdoing. When coupled with the personal charm that can characterize sociopaths, many who've been victimized by sociopaths may doubt their perception.

Jacobson and Gottman[6] report that some physically abusive husbands may gaslight their wives, even flatly denying that they've used violence.
 
Thanks for posting that. In addition to making the target feel as thought they are going insane, the most insidious part of gaslighting is doing things that also make the target appear to be insane to others. In the classic example (first one) given in your wiki quote, if someone were to go to authorities and tell them that their furniture had been moved around, but nothing was stolen, more than likely they would think that person was paranoid.
 
A little late for this thread, but reading through everyone's interesting experiences on the connection between mind and body, I thought I'd also add a few thoughts.

Laura said:
I don't think it is exactly treating the symptoms and not the cause... I was thinking a little more deeply, you know like "fake it 'til you make it" sort of thing.

I personally think so, having experienced it myself. I grew with many problems of self esteem and my posture reflected it noticeably. As I look at old photos I observe the particular way the shoulders curve, the concave chest, the overall vulnerable yet protective posture which tells immensely about myself at that stage. As I began to train intensively as a dancer, my posture progressively and dramatically changed. My attitude changed as well. It wasn't something that happened in a blink of an eye, it took a few years. I can clearly remember though, the new sense of feeling stronger and more assertive as my spine began to straighten out.
The body is highly reflective of one's attitude, as we start working deeply within it we'll notice slow, gradual changes. I can testify for that myself.

I can also observe such alterations in my Pilates classes. I still get fascinated by those subtle yet consistent changes. I can remember one psychiatrist who, in order to feel he could better reach his patients, adopted a slumped, introspective and protective posture. Unconsciously, he felt that by doing so he would be less intimidating. As he started training, his posture slowly and gradually changed. Now I think that for consistent results, a technique that works deeply within one's body should not be invasive, but rather slow, progressive and consistent, and highly concentrated on the person's response. Changing one's centre of gravity for example (which more often then not is out of place) has a strong impact on one's overall being. It did for this psychiatrist for example who suddenly, out of the blue, began to open up and become cheerier in his sessions. Nearly all of his patients noticed it. And there are a few of such interesting stories.

However, working on some sort of physical re-alignment will only have real impact in one's attitude if done consistently and for long enough.
I believe that an integrative approach to body, mind and spirit is the best solution. Often to achieve something we need to try here and there and gather as many developmental tools as possible. In that line of thought, changing one's posture, far from being the only, can be simply one of the tools to begin the process of changing attitude

For significant physical changes that lead to a transformation in the mental sphere to become real and ingrained, conscious effort from the mind is also needed. That is in order to work diligently to become conscious of, and sustain the transformation on a mental and emotional level. I believe that to work also the other way around, as you consistently build a different attitude, your body posture will reflect it.

Slowone said:
I know in Yoga teaching that a deep physical practice with slow holds, lots of forward bends etc, leaves you feeling entirely different energetically than say a very energetic round of Sun Salutations. That change in energy and mood is palpable even after the physical practice is over.

The fact that you need really to practice daily suggests that it needs to be constantly applied but you can actually feel the change in energy in a class just by changing the postures taught.

That has also been my experience with physical activities that work deeply into the core and on an energetic level. And thank you for your quotes Slowone! Another book for my list.

There are a few techniques looking into the connection between one's body and mind. Slowone's quotes reminded of a book on this subject that I have mentioned in another thread. "Sensing, Feeling and Action" by Bonnie Bainbridge Cohen. She dedicated her life to movement analysis, which resulted in her technique; Body Mind Centering. Through the study of movement patterns from the new born up to adulthood and old age, the technique aimed to understand at a very instinctive level a person's first impulses and where do they stem from. She focused mainly on the physical aspect but would often make the connection to the mental and emotional ones. The technique studied how these impulses will manifest in movement, and on other hand, what each movement implies, what can be the mental and emotional underlying impulse.
 
Re: Psychopaths: They Take Advantage of Your Perceptions Be Aware

Aragorn said:
They have Political Ponerology in your local library - that's great! Or did I understand you correctly...?

Well the librarian said she could try to order it for me but may take some time so I may buy from amazon It is quite cheap and I guess is one of those books to keep.

Moderator's note: Edited to fix the quotation boxes.
 
thevenusian said:
I, too, enjoyed the movie, which stars a young Ingrid Bergman as the victim of her pathological husband's efforts to drive her crazy.

Just for the record, for those who are unfamiliar with this term, I think it would be helpful to include more of the definition available on Wikipedia:

Gaslighting is a form of intimidation or psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim, making them doubt their own memory and perception.

The classic example of gaslighting is to change things in a person's environment without their knowledge, and to explain that they "must be imagining things" when they challenge these changes.[2] Similarly, the Manson Family, during their "creepy crawler" burglaries of the late 1960s, would enter homes and steal nothing, but would rearrange furniture to upset and confuse residents.[3]

According to psychologists Gass and Nichols,[4] another relatively frequent form of gaslighting occurs when a husband has cheated on a wife. The husband may strenuously deny the affair and insist "I'm not lying; you're just imagining things." Further "male therapists may contribute to the women's distress through mislabeling the women's reactions. [...] The gaslighting behaviors of the husband provide a recipe for the so-called 'nervous breakdown' for some women [and] suicide in some of the worst situations."

Psychologist Martha Stout[5] explains how sociopaths frequently use gaslighting tactics. Sociopaths are often cruel, manipulative or conniving, and moreover are often convincing liars who consistently deny wrongdoing. When coupled with the personal charm that can characterize sociopaths, many who've been victimized by sociopaths may doubt their perception.

Jacobson and Gottman[6] report that some physically abusive husbands may gaslight their wives, even flatly denying that they've used violence.

Thanks for posting this. I didn't know there was a term for this sort of behavior. My ex-wife used to gaslight me a lot. If I need to carry cash for anything I would try to keep track of how much I had in my wallet, but sometimes I didn't know the exact amount. I suspect that she would sneak into my wallet while I was sleeping and take money. It always seemed like any cash I had evaporated quickly. She would never admit that she stole it though, she always told me that I just "forgot how much money I actually had in there". It got to the point where I did start to question my own sanity at times. Most of the time she would leave a few dollars just to make it look like there was still something left over.

She would also do the same with my checkbooks and steal checks that she would later forge days or months later. These I've kept a record of and it's plainly obvious the signature on the check is not my own. These were a bit harder for her to deny and eventually led me to conclude that she was stealing from me in other ways too. She would do the same with our daughters and their allowance money.
 
RyanX said:
She would do the same with our daughters and their allowance money.

Hey RyanX -- it sounds like your ex-wife's behavior was deplorable in all sorts of ways, but the sentence above for whatever reason really stood out to me and makes me feel that you are much better off not being in the relationship anymore. I know you posted about the difficulties in making the transition last year, and I hope it is going better for you as time goes by. Stealing from your own kids -- sheesh :(
 
Shijing said:
Stealing from your own kids -- sheesh :(

Tell me about it! I can't believe I put up with her for so long. It was really a bad relationship all around. For awhile, I had my daughter put her allowance money in a locked box, even that wasn't enough because my ex found the keys one day! Needless to say, my daughters are smart enough not to keep their money at their Mom's house since we've separated.

This woman wasn't deprived either. During the times she was unemployed (usually due to getting fired from her job for reasons unknown to me), I would pay her a monthly allowance of $400. I paid all the bills for the household or any expenses for our daughters, so this was basically just spending money for her. This was equivalent to the most I would typically spend in a month on personal items. Usually I wouldn't spend more than $200/month. The rest of our money either went to savings or home projects which we both agreed needed to get done. Ironically she got what she wanted when I filed for divorce. The state takes away half my paycheck every pay period and gives it to her unconditionally. This is more money than she's ever made in her life working at a job and she still has problems paying her bills! I've already had a couple collection agencies call looking for her. She refuses to work now and contribute to the children financially. She is VERY good at playing the victim and that she is just a poor housewife who's husband just divorced her for no good reason.

My goal this year is to eventually attain some legal separation from this woman who currently is doing everything in her power to stall the divorce process. I don't want to hijack this thread with swamp material, so I'll leave it at that.
 
RyanX

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It was disturbing to read it and it seems to be a very draining situation to be in.

I suppose you know this already, but the Swamp might help you "get things out", just in case.
I hope your kids are doing well, and that 2010 brings you the best in dealing with this.
 
M.A.O. said:
One item i have always noticed is this type of personality, is that it thrives on and moves on taking "kindness as a weakness" and using it to there advantage to manipulate their victims for gain and or destruction on all fronts ! Also (which was typical ) when there confronted with their behavior that they flip it around and become aggressive and defensive of the questioning of there deceptive activity to control their victim ! Like what you talking, about as if your are the one who is insane.

spot on this is what I worked out. Before the penny dropped I felt like I was going mad. Unfortunately when it is a family member you tend to always try to see the best in them and do not see as you are too close. I saw how violent the family member became when I went in softly to try and get answers. He punched the wall and said stab me stab me go on... really aggressive and it frightened me. I thought what on earth did he mean like he was saying I should stab him? I did not understand and it was so confusing. This works as a way to get you to back off when you are getting too close to the point of understanding I think. I was starting to turn the gas lighting around and realise it was the family member not me and he had to disorientate me by making it impossible to hold a conversation around the subject. It was horrendous. It is like a dance. Say I was as kind and understanding as possible for ages and then I couldn't take it and got angry as soon as I got emotional he would say see thats how you are why are you being aggressive. IF I told him look this is really upsetting me and gave the reason he would then take the reason and use it to make even more of this kind of thing happen. So any information you give them as to your emotional state they love as it means they can use it to hit you where it hurts.

Also re the kindness thing my friends were targeted and one who was especially kind and open was approached as a confident and begged that she keep it secret from me. The family member then proceeded over a year to portray himself as a victim and some how make it seem he was frightened of me. This also involved working in tandem with other family members and I saw person after person shut down on me emotionally. There would be this look in their eyes and I knew that they had been recruited by the psychopath. I do believe I was an ideal target because I do not challenge people and when hurt go inside myself. After moving away and really thinking and getting counselling I realised I had set myself up for the manipulation. I was wearing a neon sign saying how vulnerable I was. I was needy and my need for friendship and people to like me meant I let people get away with things in social situations. So I have learned to change myself and become stronger. Instead of defeating me the bullying has actually made me stronger and in time the psychopath I believe will destroy himself. They are their own worst enemy and they do not even know it. They get pleasure from hurting people especially when it is done in a certain way but it is like being adicted to a drug they get sloppy eventually. They get careless. That is when you spot them.
 
i noticed something about myself. i used to talk too much and too intimately too quickly with people. this alerts the lurking psychopath. it was something i had to train myself against. its a family trait. i was always accepting of others. to the extent i did not protect myself. i was a bit naive thinking of everyone in similar terms to how i related to the world. i see now growing up in a care system left me vulnerable. it could have made me a psycho but due to a loving early start thankfully i do have amoral compass
 
go2 said:
Laura said:
One wonders, of course, if an individual were to have their posture, gait and other body movements analyzed, and worked on correction, if this would have a somatapsychic effect. That is, would it help to alleviate whatever is inside them that makes the act/look like a victim? You know, kind of like "stand up straight and tall, move with confidence" and it will make you feel straight and tall and confident?

Would it be treating the symptom, rather than the underlying cause? It might work until a crisis or simply time and inattention allow the old "programs" reassert their control. I think martial arts, meditation, Rolfing, massage, diet, breathing etc. facilitate rewiring the brain by highlighting "programs" and making rewiring more bearable, but these practices are not the rewiring itself except in so far as they require "conscious labor". It seems a little like building ones house on sand or putting new wine in an old skin, to use the Biblical reference. Anyway that has been my experience trying the easier softer way. fwiw

It may be a “chicken or egg” type of thing. I come across information about atlanto-axial subluxation, when I was doing other research a few years back. It can be a common injury but it seems that in the main overlooked by the medical profession. The most identifiable symptom is that the head is on a tilt.

This trauma can take many forms. In my case it was my head striking the ground in a football tackle. For one little girl it was falling out of bed and hitting her head on the bedside table and for another lady playing basketball, it was a direct hit to the jaw. The force is enough to push the skull sideways as it slides along the atlas condylar surface. The occipital condyles of the skull can slide off (over or underlap) the atlas condylar surface, however the anatomy and the restraining ligaments limit this over and underlapping. The result in this example is a head tilted to the left, and an atlas that's high (elevated) on the right.

This injury can cause a host of other problems throughout the body:

The skull is quite heavy thus any change in the centre of gravity will most likely produce undesirable stresses on structures within the tissues of the cervical spine. This situation has important implications for the spinal cord, which leaves the foramen magnum and travels through the foramen (holes) in the atlas and other skeletal vertebrae to the base of the spine. This also has important implications for the vertebral arteries, which travel through the cervical spine from C6 to the atlas, for the carotid arteries, which travel beneath the sternocleidomastoid muscles, and for the cranial nerves leaving foramen in the skull base. All of these structures have the potential to be trapped, compressed, stretched or otherwise interfered with by the taught muscles and ligaments involved in maintaining the skull and its contents on top of the cervical spine. The resultant stresses on arteries could yield reduction in oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and on cranial nerves could result in attenuation of nervous system signals to and from the brain. The cranial nerves which are potentially involved are the vagus, spinal accessory, glossopharyngeal and hypoglossal. Of course these arteries and nerves are of major importance to proper functioning and maintenance of the human body.
emphasis mine.

Then there are the effects on the musculo-skeletal system:
Figure 7: The Effects of the Atlas Subluxation
(Figure 7 reprinted with permission from Daniel O. Clark D.C., Website: www.uppercervicalillustrations.com).
Figure 7 opposite explains what happens to your body if you unfortunate enough to sustain a head injury which shifts your skull on your atlas and results in a skull to atlas subluxation. Make no mistake for this is exactly what happens. The ramifications of the subluxation can extend to all parts of your body. In the most benign of these subluxations you may only experience a little lower back pain and in the more serious your whole body can be racked with pain and dysfunction. The tight sub-occipital ligaments and cervical spine muscles can be responsible for headaches or migraines as well as neck pain.

So people with this injury, which it seems can be easily overlooked, could seem weaker because they are weaker. The article draws an analogy of balancing a 10lb bowling ball on your hand and then tilting your hand slightly to change the centre of gravity to guage the effect that an atlanto-axial subluxation may have.

Not many people wouldn’t have taken a knock on the head at some stage or another.

In regards to posture, while I haven’t suffered atlanto-axial subluxation, I have always found it tiring to hold a good posture…it seemed like hard work and I had niggling lower back pain. A friend who is a podiatrist assessed my posture and gait and fitted me with orthotics. I immediately felt more strength and balance in my torso and it feels refreshing and energizing to stand square and tall. It seems that my foundation (feet) were out of kilter and that had a ‘hip-bone-connected-to-the-thigh-bone’ effect on my whole posture.



http://www.upcspine.com/anatomy2.htm
 

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