obyvatel said:
Men can learn to recognize the manipulation dynamics and stand firm. This has the potential to help the relationship, provided the woman is not pathological. And sometimes, not always, it helps to drop the nice guy image when the manipulation is appealing to such a nice guy. The guy on the video was apparently not so identified with being a nice guy, so despite the pull he could resist. And it was interesting to see that as he started driving a bargain to make her sign over the house in his name as a condition for helping her, the drama lost its bite.
I think this is spot-on, and not just when dealing with pathological people, but in relationships in general, especially romantic ones. It also ties in to the
traits of confident people, one of which states we should not avoid conflict.
Conflict is essential for a good relationship in my experience, but it is also very tricky. For example, if we have a problem in a relationship, it's important to bring it up ("dop the nice guy") and stand your ground. Yes, it is unpleasant, but it can lead to much progress and - ironically - bring partners much closer together than if one or both sides avoid conflict. But while standing firm, it's also very important to always consider the possibility that we are wrong, otherwise it is
us who quickly become the manipulator.
Let's say, for example, you have the impression that your partner manipulates you emotionally and you feel you are deprived of your right to do something that is important for you. So you bring it up, and listen closely to the feedback/reaction that you get. There could be many outcomes of such a conversation, and if done in the right spirit, all are positive. For example, your partner may react badly, but sees the truth about your point and makes an effort (the breaking of such a unhealthy dynamic may also help him/her, and he/she might be very grateful later for your courage). Or, it could turn out that your demand is really egoistic and that you just want to avoid being available emotionally for your partner, or it might be just your strategy to avoid helping more in the household and just waste away your time with your obsessions. Another possibility, of course, is that your partner will show his/her true nature - pathologicals are simply unable to consider your needs for a moment.
I think we shouldn't jump to conclusions lightly in such situations, it's extremely tricky and requires a good grip on yourself and a self-critical attitude, rooted in knowledge. Because it's so tricky and full of pitfalls, many of us tend to avoid conflict, which only leads to stagnation or degeneration. I think it's one of those areas where we need to practice, practice, practice in order to learn some of the 'simple karmic understandings' the Cs talked about.
Windmill knight said:
I think that many of us men grew up with the idea that women are somehow better or nicer than men. I know I did; in my case it was partly the product of seeing my father's behavior in contrast to my mother's, and also due to having come from a very matriarcal culture (yet macho). It may also have to do with the childish fantasy that many men have of being cared for like a baby again - only a superior person could be your 'mom'. So when we grow up to find that some women can and do hurt us badly, it gets us completely off guard, we don't understand and we don't know what to do. Watching videos like the one above is an eye-opener in regards to how far this can go and how it works, but they are also healing in the sense that we get a more realistic view of women and they dispel knightly illusions of the pure princess that needs to be rescued and adored. Instead, if we digest the information properly, what we learn is that women are just as mechanical and half-evil/half-good as men - the difference is that due to upbringing, society and biology we tend to proceed differently and use different sets of strategies to navigate life. But for both genders it is equally valid that we all (psychos excluded) have a choice to make between consciousness and mechanicalness, right and wrong.
Yes, and part of the reason for this is our educational system and degeneration of 'true masculinity' in society, I think. We are raised by women not only at home (single moms/absent dads), but also in kindergarten and school. The few men in those professions are (to use a bit of a cliché), are not always the most 'manly' guys.
Especially in puberty, I think our school system is wholly inadequate for boys. It's a time where they need to go out there, work physically, get initiated by men who teach them what it means to be a man and teach them crafts etc. - instead they need to sit quiet in a class and listen to a (often female) teacher talking about Shakespeare and stuff (if they are lucky).
It's just one aspect of course, but I think all this contributes to screwing up men, which then makes them susceptible to female manipulation of all sorts and generally renders them useless. OSIT
