I need some "objective" advice, please...

[DHTH]

It has just come to knowledge that people are talking around me, regarding a relationship which recently ended. But first I will provide some background info and in the end ask for others opinion about the matter.

Background:
I have two children aged five and eight. I consider myself as a caring father and show them much affection in any possible way. Although I feel like having done them wrong in many instances with my choices in life which have affected them.
For the past 1.5 year I have been in a relationship with a woman. This woman was a friend of mine for a long time before we decided to become more than just friends. She has two children as well one in the same class as my son. The thing here is that the mother to my children (as you properly already guessed we're separated) also knew this woman and they were a sort of friends. The news about the relationship she took very bad and was very much upset (understandable to a degree). time went by and the past 1.5 years have been very chaotic on many levels. In the end I felt deeply this new woman was not the person for me. I decided to end the life we had together and live for myself again as I did before.
Now I hear from my ex ex that people confront her with questions about the breakup between my ex and me. This is for me not a very big problem in itself, but the thing is that I am worried that my oldest son gets to hear something negative about his mother as she seems to have caught a vibe in these confrontations regarding her involvement in the fact that the relationship ended between my ex and me. My opinion is that is has nothing at all to do with her, but I can a sort of imagine where people might have that impression from.

This confrontation (between other parents from the class my son is in and my ex ex) has taken place several times during the past two months and yet again yesterday. She knows I can't really do anything about it, but still wishes it would just stop, because she don't know how to respond to the people who asks questions. I don't know if it really is questions or more presumptions that they might have from my ex(she a kind of person how like to talk and I know for a fact that I hurt her a lot with my decision to end the relationship)

I feel like making a statement to those people which in no instance have confronted me personally but goes around spreading possible lies and confronting the wrong people about this matter. Actually I think it is a kind of interference with my personal life, which they at least could have the respect for the situation and ask me if their curiosity was about to blow up.

At first I was thinking about sending a message on the intranet to all the parents in the class(It has to be mentioned that my oldest son and my ex's child are in the same class at school) something along the lines:

"Dear Parents In 2.C

"Statement"

I hear of several incidents in which individual parents have shown interest in my private affairs. But not to me personally, but through others. It amazes me indisputable that I am not personally confronted if anyone is thinking they have the extraordinary freedom / audacity to involve themselves in my private affairs around me.
I urge in the strongest terms to the cease immediately and should anyone have any questions that burn in their hearts, so I offer redemption in the form of an answer.

Regards

*mod note* name removed for privacy

PS. I am aware of the risk of hitting people who are not in any way guilty in my accusations. To them, I apologize hereby in advance and ask for your understanding.
"

Now when I though a bit about it this it's properly not the greatest of ideas, or else it could be ?

It would mean a personally victory in some sane/insane way because I'm normally slightly to the side of avoiding conflicts in any way. So making this statement would mean something somewhere, but maybe only on a EGO-plane!

The things that have come to my mind:

Am I just blowing up the fire which might be almost settled or ??

Is this at all a thing to occupy ones mind with at all?(It mostly grows out of concern of my son, so yes in a way but still,)

I risk that it might prolong the timeline and thereby the risk for parents talking over the dinner or elsewhere and not being careful about what they talk about in front of their children etc. ?

Should/can I ask my ex to close the gate of random bitter information to her surroundings ?(I'm as sure that I can be that the information these parents have got, they have from one single source-my ex) But then again-that would probably not be effective at all!

This might be regarded as a totally simple and maybe indifferent matter, but for me right now in 3d state of thinking is something that occupy my mind.

I hope you might have some feedback on how would you, yourself handle such a situation and why.

I know that one might would like more information about certain things to make a complete assessment, but the most critical issue for me right now is to find out wether I should send a message (statement) to the parents in the class or not?

Just some personal thoughts I grapple with this day—

 

[Carl]

You didn't really give any concrete info on the reasons for the breakup, or what is actually being said about you behind your back (Do you know? Is it really 'lies', or is it just a side of the story that you aren't seeing?). People are going to gossip about anything like this, and as long as you are not being outright slandered, I wouldn't see it as a big cause for concern.

Sending a broadcast message like that may not be wise, as it would reach many people who are not involved at all (but would start wondering what all the fuss was about!). I guess you have to ask yourself, is this really affecting you in a negative way, as regards to your Goal, or is it just hurting your self importance?

These are just my thoughts right now, others may have different views.

 

[Alada]

I agree with the points Carlise made. People always talk about us behind our backs, so what? Why should it be allowed to change anything? People love to gossip, are mechanical, it happens all the time. Maybe you even did something silly that warrants a little criticism? Who knows.

All you can do is have control of yourself and your own actions. Allowing your horses to run out of control over a little schoolyard gossip just seems silly. Pretending to do so under the cover story of ‘doing it for your son’ is just lying to yourself. At his age such tittle tattle among other parents probably doesn’t even register on his radar, and if it does he will most likely forget about it long before you do if you continue to think this way.

If you are concerned for your son, and if our children learn from us by example, through how we behave. Then the question becomes one of what kind of examples we wish to teach them? That adults can and should behave like adults, can be rational, can be control of themselves, or teach them to be reaction machines?

The below might be useful, regarding self-love and active reasoning.

[quote author=Gurdjieff Views-From-the-Real-World p266-270]
Liberation leads to liberation

These are the first words of truth—not truth in quotation marks but truth in the real meaning of the word; truth which is not merely theoretical, not simply a word, but truth that can be realized in practice. The meaning behind these words may be explained as follows:

By liberation is meant the liberation which is the aim of all schools, all religions, at all times. This liberation can indeed be very great. All men desire it and strive after it. But it cannot be attained without the first liberation, a lesser liberation. The great liberation is liberation from influences outside us. The lesser liberation is liberation from influences within us.

At first, for beginners, this lesser liberation appears to be very great, for a beginner depends very little on external influences. Only a man who has already become free of inner influences falls under external influences.

Inner influences prevent a man from falling under external influences. Maybe it is for the best. Inner influences and inner slavery come from many varied sources and many independent factors—independent in that sometimes it is one thing and sometimes another, for we have many enemies.

There are so many of these enemies that life would not be long enough to struggle with each of them and free ourselves from each one separately. So we must find a method, a line of work, which will enable us simultaneously to destroy the greatest possible number of enemies within us from which these influences come.

I said that we have many independent enemies, but the chief and most active are vanity and self-love. One teaching even calls them representatives and messengers of the devil himself.

For some reason they are also called Mrs. Vanity and Mr. Self-Love.

As I have said, there are many enemies. I have mentioned only these two as the most fundamental. At the moment it is hard to enumerate them all. It would be difficult to work on each of them directly and specifically, and it would take too much time since there are so many. So we have to deal with them indirectly in order to free ourselves from several at once.

These representatives of the devil stand unceasingly at the threshold which separates us from the outside, and prevent not only good but also bad external influences from entering. Thus they have a good side as well as a bad side.

For a man who wishes to discriminate among the influences he receives, it is an advantage to have these watchmen. But if a man wishes all influences to enter, no matter what they may be—for it is impossible to select only the good ones—he must liberate himself as much as possible, and finally altogether, from these watchmen, whom some consider undesirable.

For this there are many methods, and a great number of means. Personally I would advise you to try freeing yourselves and to do so without unnecessary theorizing, by simple reasoning, active reasoning, with yourselves.

Through active reasoning this is possible, but if anyone does not succeed, if he fails to do so by this method, there are no other means for what is to follow. Take, for instance, self-love, which occupies almost half of our time and our life. If someone, or something, has wounded our self-love from outside, then, not only at that moment but for a long time afterwards, its momentum closes all the doors, and therefore shuts out life.

When I am connected with outside, I live. If I live only inside myself, it is not life; but everybody lives thus. When I examine myself, I connect myself with the outside.

For instance, now I sit here. M. is here and also K. We live together. M. called me a fool—I am offended. K. gave me a scornful look—1 am offended. I consider, I am hurt and shall not calm down and come to myself for a long time.

All people are so affected, all have similar experiences the whole time. One experience subsides, but no sooner has it subsided than another of the same nature starts. Our machinery is so arranged that there are no separate places where different things can be experienced simultaneously.

We have only one place for our psychic experiences. And so if this place is occupied with such experiences as these, there can be no question of our having the experiences we desire.

And if certain attainments or liberations are supposed to bring us to certain experiences, they will not do so if things remain as they are.

M. called me a fool. Why should I be offended? Such things do not hurt me, so I don't take offense—not because I have no self-love; maybe I have more self-love than anyone here.

Maybe it is this very self-love that does not let me be offended.

I think, I reason in a way exactly the reverse of the usual way. He called me a fool. Must he necessarily be wise? He himself may be a fool or a lunatic. One cannot demand wisdom from a child. I cannot expect wisdom from him. His reasoning was foolish. Either someone has said something to him about me, or he has formed his own foolish opinion that I am a fool—so much the worse for him. I know that I am not a fool, so it does not offend me. If a fool has called me a fool, I am not affected inside.

But if in a given instance I was a fool and am called a fool, I am not hurt, because my task is not to be a fool; I assume this to be everyone's aim. So he reminds me, helps me to realize that I am a fool and acted foolishly. I shall think about it and perhaps not act foolishly next time. So, in either case I am not hurt.

K. gave me a scornful look. It does not offend me. On the contrary, I feel sorry for him because of the dirty look he gave me. For a dirty look must have a reason behind it. Can he have such a reason?

I know myself. I can judge from my knowledge of myself.

He gave me a dirty look. Possibly someone had told him something that made him form a bad opinion of me. I am sorry for him because he is so much a slave that he looks at me through other people's eyes. This proves that he is not. He is a slave and so he cannot hurt me.

I say all this as an example of reasoning.

Actually, the secret and the cause of all such things lies in the fact that we do not possess ourselves nor do we possess genuine self-love. Self-love is a great thing. If we consider self-love, as we generally understand it, as reprehensible, then it follows that true self-love—which, unfortunately, we do not possess—is desirable and necessary.

Self-love is a sign of a high opinion of oneself. If a man has this self-love it proves what he is.

As we have said earlier, self-love is a representative of the devil; it is our chief enemy, the main brake to our aspirations and our achievements. Self-love is the principal weapon of the representative of hell.

But self-love is an attribute of the soul. By self-love one can discern the spirit. Self-love indicates and proves that a given man is a particle of heaven. Self-love is I—I is God. Therefore it is desirable to have self-love.

Self-love is hell, and self-love is heaven. These two, bearing the same name, are outwardly alike, but totally different and opposite to one another in essence. But if we look superficially, we can go on looking throughout our whole life without ever distinguishing the one from the other.

There exists a saying: "He who has self-love is halfway to freedom." Yet, among those sitting here, everyone is full to overflowing with self-love. And in spite of the fact that we are full to the brim with self-love, we have not yet attained one tiny bit of freedom. Our aim must be to have self-love. If we have self-love, by this very fact we shall become free of many enemies in us. We can even become free of these principal ones—Mr. Self-Love and Mrs. Vanity.

How to distinguish between one kind of self-love and another? We have said that on the surface it is very difficult.

This is so even when we look at others; when we look at ourselves it is still more difficult.

Thank God we, who are sitting here, are safe from confusing the one with the other. We are lucky! Genuine self-love is to tally absent, so there is nothing to confuse.

In the beginning of the lecture I used the words "active reasoning."

Active reasoning is learned by practice; it should be practiced long and in many varied ways.
[/quote]

 

[Dirgni]

Maybe you and the mother of your children should just discuss this and decide how to act?

Maybe you decide to explain everything to your son together. This gives you both the opportunity to present the true facts in a kind way suitable for him. You could also explain that there are rumours. You both could also advice your son how to react just in case. This gives your son the opportunity to ask questions and tell what he thinks about it. Maybe you should also include your five year old child if there is a possiblity to pick up this gossip.

You may want to consider to do the same with your ex and her children? It seems for these children you were father for some time, too?

As far as I can see the gossip does not really worry you and your ex and your ex-ex. Maybe just let it die?


This is just my 3D opinion. Please feel free to discard it.

 

[DHTH]

Thank you Dirgni, Carlise, Alada, for your responses. They were all helpful to me. Maybe it is self-importance at play here, but I think it might be the fact that I'm in most instances are too focused on doing the right thing for everybody at the same time, which is not always possible!

Personally I don't give a d... about people talking about me, I know enough of "me" to don't care "in most cases at least- because I still get offended sometimes, but not for many minutes ".
But it seems to hurt and frustrate the mother of my children as she is the one getting confronted about an issue she has nothing to do with.
I have come to the conclusion that sending my initial thoughts "out there" would in deed be wrong of me.

Once again thank you for the feedback.

I feel a bit silly to have posted something like this, but then again....... It was -what was on my mind.

 

[denekin]

Hi DHTH
I have had good effects, and friends have had success, in your situation, with a very neutral letter.
Here is the letter you offered us, followed with what I would call a neutral letter:


"Dear Parents In 2.C

"Statement"

I hear of several incidents in which individual parents have shown interest in my private affairs. But not to me personally, but through others. It amazes me indisputable that I am not personally confronted if anyone is thinking they have the extraordinary freedom / audacity to involve themselves in my private affairs around me.
I urge in the strongest terms to the cease immediately and should anyone have any questions that burn in their hearts, so I offer redemption in the form of an answer.

Regards

*mod note* name removed for privacy

PS. I am aware of the risk of hitting people who are not in any way guilty in my accusations. To them, I apologize hereby in advance and ask for your understanding.
"

A neutral version would go something like this:

Dear Parents in 2.C
Some of you may be aware of the recent change in my relationship status (marriage etc). As happens so often in these instances, questions have been asked as to exactly what has happened and what is happening. Out of respect for all parties involved, especially my ex-wife, and my children (include whoever you want here), I would appreciate it if you would bring your questions about me to me. That way the least amount of confusion and possible bad feelings is generated.
I thank you for your consideration in this matter, sincerely...."

Experience has taught me, and I have seen this in other peoples' lives, that making oneself available for communication can cut down the gossip and potential malice considerably.
The way the letter is written, the first sentence effectively lets those who are not involved in this gossip go their merry way without burden. The second sentence contains an implied reprimand to those who have been gossiping, and also reminds people that direct communication creates less chaos than circuitous communication.

As to self importance, that may very well be at play here, but, nevertheless, I'd argue that you actually do everyone a big favor by writing a letter that invites all participants to be clear and clean about what is happening. Such a letter is not overly defensive, it attacks no one, and is a good invitation to proceed with integrity.
My 2 pennies worth...

 

[DHTH]

Thank you so much denekin, I'm actually very happy about your response and no less your suggestion. I do think it might be a good idea to write that way. Something very similar would normally have crossed my mind, but I admit I somehow got trapped in astonishment of how respect-less people act in such situations and thereby got kind of aggressive in my approach toward the topic!

But again Thank you denekin.