If souls feel the pain they caused after death, why do some still choose STS?

[Wandering Star]

4th density is "free" of the forgetfulness of 3rd between cycles ( this is stated explicitly in transcripts, maybe someone can give direct quote )

And this:

Session 65
August 8, 1981


QUESTIONER: The Wanderer experiences the process of forgetting. You mentioned that those with third- and fourth-density dual activation bodies do not experience the Wanderer's forgetting. I was wondering if a sixth-density Wanderer here in a third-density activated body would go through a sectional forgetting, so to speak, a forgetting from fourth, fifth, and sixth density; if their fourth-density body was activated, they would have part of an additional memory, and another partial memory if their fifth-density body was activated, and a complete memory if their sixth-density body was activated. Does that make sense?

RA: I am Ra. No.

QUESTIONER: Thank you. The forgetting process intrigued me because you said that fourth-density activated entities who are here and have been harvested do not experience it.
Could you say why the Wanderer loses their memories?

RA: I am Ra. The reason is twofold. First, the genetic properties of the connection between the mind/body/spirit complex and the cellular structure of the body are different for third density than for third/fourth density.
Second, the free will of third-density entities must be preserved. Thus, Wanderers opt for third-density genetic or DNA connections with the mind/body/spirit complex. The process of forgetting can be overcome to the extent that the Wanderer remembers the reason for being on the planetary sphere. However, it would be a transgression if Wanderers overcame forgetting to the point of activating denser bodies and thus being able to live in a divine manner, so to speak. This would not be appropriate for entities who have chosen service.
Entities newly arriving in fourth density who are becoming capable of demonstrating diverse and new abilities do so as a result of current experience, not as a result of memory.
There are always some exceptions, and we apologize for our constant generalizations.

 

[axj]

Session 8 April 2023 :

(...)

A: 5th density does not work that way. Negative entities are intensely entropic and sort of gravitationally enclosed so as to give them the opportunity to reflect on their choices. They may then decide to try again but it is rare for the truly negative to reincarnate. They are subsumed.

Yes, that was the session where this question was discussed. Here is the whole discussion:

Session Date: April 8th 2023

(Adobe) In much of the NDE, and karmic studies, the STS path entities are under-represented. Can you help with understanding why?

(Adobe via Zoom) Am I still on? We've been discussing that on the Near Death Experience or Afterlife thread, and in reading through the books, we're going, "Hey, where's all the baddies?" You know, when you hear the near death experience and the karmic stuff, you always hear these great, wonderful stories. If someone dies and it's all wonderful and they come back and it's all wonderful and it's like, "Hey, is there any bad over there?" Where are the service to self people that are putting together a program for their next life where they're gonna do real bad stuff? They're coming down here to learn how to be baddies. So there's no stories of that. So why is the negative side of the other dimensions and densities unrepresented when we go to read about near death and karmic stuff? Well, some of the stuff does, like the recent movie, and I forget the name of it, the 'Astral City' and also Wicklands '30 years among Dead'. They do represent some negativity, but it's generally lost souls not far from us. So let's get back to the question. Okay. Why is the negativity less represented in the truth at 5D?

A: 5th density does not work that way. Negative entities are intensely entropic and sort of gravitationally enclosed so as to give them the opportunity to reflect on their choices. They may then decide to try again but it is rare for the truly negative to reincarnate. They are subsumed.

Q: (PoB) So why there are not less and less of them on the earth?

(L) Well, I think it's because the negativity draws from... I mean so many what we call negative individuals are like psychopaths, which is like a defective OP. They don't really have a reincarnating soul anyway. They're just a portal for negative 4D STS energies to enter into the world. And there's plenty of OPs. Plus the fact that the normal soul - and you use "normal" kind of loosely - is always subjected to the pool of STS by virtue of being in the body and being subjected to all of the temptations and the vicissitudes of life in a more-or-less unfriendly environment. Earth is really kind of not a really friendly place with all of its things that just happen, but naturally. So I think that there's plenty of opportunity for negativity. And I also think that sometimes what we might consider to be a negative individual or negative entity or negative events from a larger cosmic perspective may not be that at all.

(Joe) Well, there's the idea of 4th density STS and being able to graduate, so you assume it's someone who was incarnated in 3D repeatedly over and over again and entrench themselves in an STS way of being to the point that they are eligible to take a place.

(L) I think what happens is that there are just OPs and they get utilized, they get downloaded. Is that it? I mean, when we're thinking about really negative individuals on earth, are we talking about basically OPs that get downloaded by 4D STS, which can't go any higher than 4D?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So it's a different economy altogether than that which operates for souls recycling and so forth?

A: Yes

Q: (Joe) So how are 4D STS beings... How do they get to be there then if they haven't gone through, you know what I mean? I mean the natural progression for non-STS or not fully STS beings?

A: Different process. And they must achieve a high percentage of negativity in a single lifetime. And, yes, some of the extremely negative types do go directly to 4D STS.

Q: (Andromeda) Maybe they don't go to the contemplation zone. Like if some soul has a destiny, they can pass that energy... just goes into another body, but they don't need to contemplate, do they?

(Joe) It just seems to be a lot of those types. They're quite negative and supposedly there's an equal number of 4D STS and 4D STO, right? I'm just wondering, where do they all come from? How do you get an equal number?

(PoB) And they are coming in, in bigger numbers because it seems that the percentage is kind of constant through generations, let's say this 6% or whatever...

(L) Well, if you think about it, when you read Lobaczewski and he talks about the influence of pathological types on the human population and the percentage of the really negative psychopathic types and then the larger percentage of the other different pathologies that surround them, and then the even larger circle of those who are wounded or damaged in some way, who then are attracted to that sort of pathology. You see, kind of a similar thing is what's going on in 5D? They're only a few really negative ones and they might go directly to 4D because they achieved that level in a lifetime. But the others go and they experience what's described in all of the literature and they reincarnate and they have another chance and another chance. And maybe it takes a number of lifetimes of them going through this and experiencing that to choose right. To really choose. And then they may choose to go totally negative and then finally just go to a 4D as an STS. Is that close to what we're talking about here?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So you may see on the surface there's an awful lot of negativity, but the core of it is a small number of essential psychopaths and then the ever widening circles of lesser and lesser pathologies and then out to normal people. How many normal people do and have done and will do and are driven to or inspired to, or drawn into doing very, very bad things even though they're maybe not essentially evil, right?

(Joe) They can go and make amends and they learn through a lot. They're just saying that most people aren't that way inclined. That's why, in answer to the question, that's why you don't, in the literarature, you don't see much in the way of negative entities or beings or demons, whatever, hanging out in 5D, cuz that's not what 5D is for essentially.

(L) The essential nature of the negative entity is not to be sharing, right? So they're having an experience, they would be in their own zone. And that zone is kind of...

(Joe) Closed off, segregated.

(L) Is that also close to the way it is?

A: Yes

 

[Haiku]

To answer the original question ...

In your soul grouping there is both as you have to learn the lessons from all STO and STS perspectives, it can be no other way as balance must be maintained. Haiku ...

 

[Seato]

Understanding the pain you cause to others is not the same as fully comprehending STO and STS principles. People may choose to try and improve themselves and attempt to learn from their mistakes, but they may still be addicted to 3D STS existence and physicality. They may not even yet realise the extent to which being a part of a STS polarized reality contributes towards the suffering of themselves and others. As we know knowledge protects and whilst in 5D it seems our perspectives are expanded and less clouded by the cloud of evil surrounding our reality. But it does not automatically grant understanding of the complex dynamics at play in life on Earth. Even if knowledge may be more easily accessible you must still seek the truth and in turn can still choose to ignore it; if your existing preconceptions of reality will even allow you to acknowledge it.

On more cruel beings Michael Prescot quotes F.W.H. Myers channeled by Geraldine Cummins in his book ‘Life & Afterlife’

‘Observed that “the cruel man” begins his afterlife experience in a state of confusion, a kind of mental and existential fog, until he
faces up to his own misery, to his vice; and then the great change comes. He is put in touch with a portion of the Great Memory … the Book of Life. He becomes aware of all the emotions aroused in his victims by his acts … No pain, no anguish he has caused has perished. All has been registered, has a kind of existence that makes him sensible of it once he has drifted into touch with the web of memory that clothes his life and the lives of those who came into contact with him on earth.’

This seems to suggest that though this more negative individual may start in a darker place the in depth life review will occur when they are ready to face themselves. Though this would mean they may be dwelling in negativity for quite some time in 5D. Of course this does not dictate the outcome of the experience to be positive growth.

Perhaps as when pushing someone towards what you think is best can cause them to move in the opposite direction. Maybe it to is possible for someone to shrink further into denial when faced with this experience to further advance themselves along the STS path. Or maybe manifest a greater hatred of creation.
Or maybe the traumas they have built up from their life of negativity makes it very difficult for them to pursue a more positive agenda for long in their next life before succumbing to temptation.
If they blame themselves for their actions they may be more inclined to sacrifice their independence more so in their next life unintentionally making themselves more of a tool for 4d STS to exploit rather than trying to build their connection to their higher self.

 

[Viktor]

A criminal punished in prison don't necessarily realize how wrong he was. Most of the times, quite the opposite!

 

[Alejo]

I think it may be Karmic lesson profile, perhaps it's the awareness gained at the contemplation level that helps one realize that there was a "mission" to be accomplished, or a choice that necessitates incarnation back on STS earth to carry on. Like taking a long road trip somewhere, and 5D would be like stopping to get gas, stretch your legs and check the map, and then getting back on the unforgiving road to deal with traffic and so on, because you already chose your destination.

There's an interesting discussion here on the concept of STS and STO that might interest you.

 

[Bastian]

I find the concept of black hole very intriguing and although likely off this topic in this thread, love to contemplate the purpose and necessity of them to facilitate physicality and the ultimate potential of a reincarnation cycle- starting again at primal matter. Have you heard those things? The gravitational pull they have to suck us into non-being, truly awesome.

The only problem is that so-called "black holes" are a (scenic) delusion, and "black hole" science is just pseudo-science, as explained (or demonstrated) by Jean-Pierre Petit.
Theoretical delusion due to a misinterpretation (during the 40's or 50's and going on) of the first Schwarzschild's article (written and published during WW1) giving an exact solution to Einstein's equation.

J.-P. Petit proposes another concept to replace "black holes" : plugstars.
(The name is a reference to sink plugs, because according to his Janus cosmological model, these super massive objects are like "interfaces" between positive and negative mass "sides" of the Universe. Being attracted and "going through" such an object "inverts" the mass of matter : positive mass matter becomes negative mass matter.
It's similar, but different, to the ideas of black holes / white holes / wormholes.)

For more info :

So... I wonder why people here (including the team and the Cs) are still discussing this false concept !

PS: EricLux made some interesting comments about black holes in this message on the cited thread.

 

[Ruth]

This is something I've been reflecting on lately, and I’d love to hear different perspectives:

If, after death, the soul goes through a kind of awakening of conscience — fully feeling the pain it caused others, as if it were its own — then why do some souls still choose to follow the path of selfishness and control (Service to Self) in their next incarnations?

I guess it depends on the soul and what it needs (to learn?). Some may feel that they have to come back to right a wrong. It may be a very strong need. Presumably, a soul must get some kind of perspective after death, but we don't know how much. It may be different for different people. Wasn't it Edgar Cayce who was accreditted with saying: "A dead Presbyterian is just a dead Presbyterian"? Some people don't change overly much when they no longer inhabit a physical vehicle.

Did you mean awakening of conscience or awakening of consciousness? These two might be quite different.

 

[Seato]

There is a discussion related to this matter in the Session of April 8th 2023. It would seem to suggest very negative beings end up in closed off realities.
Possibly limiting the impacts of emotional feedback if it can reach them. If they close themselves off and are inaccessible to others including more positively aligned beings there may appear to be none to turn to for help or forgiveness which may better allow their reflection to fuel resentment against a universe that doesn't seem to care for them, rather than foster understanding of their own flaws.

(Adobe via Zoom) Am I still on? We've been discussing that on the Near Death Experience or Afterlife thread, and in reading through the books, we're going, "Hey, where's all the baddies?" You know, when you hear the near death experience and the karmic stuff, you always hear these great, wonderful stories. If someone dies and it's all wonderful and they come back and it's all wonderful and it's like, "Hey, is there any bad over there?" Where are the service to self people that are putting together a program for their next life where they're gonna do real bad stuff? They're coming down here to learn how to be baddies. So there's no stories of that. So why is the negative side of the other dimensions and densities unrepresented when we go to read about near death and karmic stuff? Well, some of the stuff does, like the recent movie, and I forget the name of it, the 'Astral City' and also Wicklands '30 years among Dead'. They do represent some negativity, but it's generally lost souls not far from us. So let's get back to the question. Okay. Why is the negativity less represented in the truth at 5D?

A: 5th density does not work that way. Negative entities are intensely entropic and sort of gravitationally enclosed so as to give them the opportunity to reflect on their choices. They may then decide to try again but it is rare for the truly negative to reincarnate. They are subsumed.

Q: (PoB) So why there are not less and less of them on the earth?

(L) Well, I think it's because the negativity draws from... I mean so many what we call negative individuals are like psychopaths, which is like a defective OP. They don't really have a reincarnating soul anyway. They're just a portal for negative 4D STS energies to enter into the world. And there's plenty of OPs. Plus the fact that the normal soul - and you use "normal" kind of loosely - is always subjected to the pool of STS by virtue of being in the body and being subjected to all of the temptations and the vicissitudes of life in a more-or-less unfriendly environment. Earth is really kind of not a really friendly place with all of its things that just happen, but naturally. So I think that there's plenty of opportunity for negativity. And I also think that sometimes what we might consider to be a negative individual or negative entity or negative events from a larger cosmic perspective may not be that at all.

(Joe) Well, there's the idea of 4th density STS and being able to graduate, so you assume it's someone who was incarnated in 3D repeatedly over and over again and entrench themselves in an STS way of being to the point that they are eligible to take a place.

(L) I think what happens is that there are just OPs and they get utilized, they get downloaded. Is that it? I mean, when we're thinking about really negative individuals on earth, are we talking about basically OPs that get downloaded by 4D STS, which can't go any higher than 4D?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So it's a different economy altogether than that which operates for souls recycling and so forth?

A: Yes

Q: (Joe) So how are 4D STS beings... How do they get to be there then if they haven't gone through, you know what I mean? I mean the natural progression for non-STS or not fully STS beings?

A: Different process. And they must achieve a high percentage of negativity in a single lifetime. And, yes, some of the extremely negative types do go directly to 4D STS.

Q: (Andromeda) Maybe they don't go to the contemplation zone. Like if some soul has a destiny, they can pass that energy... just goes into another body, but they don't need to contemplate, do they?

(Joe) It just seems to be a lot of those types. They're quite negative and supposedly there's an equal number of 4D STS and 4D STO, right? I'm just wondering, where do they all come from? How do you get an equal number?

(PoB) And they are coming in, in bigger numbers because it seems that the percentage is kind of constant through generations, let's say this 6% or whatever...

(L) Well, if you think about it, when you read Lobaczewski and he talks about the influence of pathological types on the human population and the percentage of the really negative psychopathic types and then the larger percentage of the other different pathologies that surround them, and then the even larger circle of those who are wounded or damaged in some way, who then are attracted to that sort of pathology. You see, kind of a similar thing is what's going on in 5D? They're only a few really negative ones and they might go directly to 4D because they achieved that level in a lifetime. But the others go and they experience what's described in all of the literature and they reincarnate and they have another chance and another chance. And maybe it takes a number of lifetimes of them going through this and experiencing that to choose right. To really choose. And then they may choose to go totally negative and then finally just go to a 4D as an STS. Is that close to what we're talking about here?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So you may see on the surface there's an awful lot of negativity, but the core of it is a small number of essential psychopaths and then the ever widening circles of lesser and lesser pathologies and then out to normal people. How many normal people do and have done and will do and are driven to or inspired to, or drawn into doing very, very bad things even though they're maybe not essentially evil, right?

(Joe) They can go and make amends and they learn through a lot. They're just saying that most people aren't that way inclined. That's why, in answer to the question, that's why you don't, in the literarature, you don't see much in the way of negative entities or beings or demons, whatever, hanging out in 5D, cuz that's not what 5D is for essentially.

(L) The essential nature of the negative entity is not to be sharing, right? So they're having an experience, they would be in their own zone. And that zone is kind of...

(Joe) Closed off, segregated.

(L) Is that also close to the way it is?

A: Yes

The high negativity in a single lifetime and possibility of direct 4D STS ascension perhaps could be due to the mounting emotional pain you have inflicted that at some point may become impossible to ignore or endure. So instead you just have to avoid it by becoming full on STS and blocking out reality with maximalist wishful thinking.
The Ra material (Law of One Session 17) suggests a 95% STS polarity is required to graduate to 4D STS. This well encapsulates the idea of the short waves function. As an STS being you might make the majority of your progress climbing in negative polarity within a single lifetime, but if you fall it’s a long way down and you cannot avoid the gravity of the situation.
In contrast the STO path is far slower and gradual. But perhaps more stable as you can rely on others to help you and in the case of 5D are more likely to be receptive to lessons from emotional life reviews.

 

[Moine]

I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because of a lack of awareness of the possibilities? The entire purpose of life/living is to expand one's knowledge and awareness, but sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees in our minds. Also, one can have the very best of intentions at the beginning of our lives but life circumstances and events can really derail the better intentions of our souls.

Think about all of us here on this forum; how many of us can truly say we were aware of the STO pathway prior to learning of it on here? Probably none of us, unfortunately. Also, it has been mentioned many times that when we reincarnate, we pass through a veil/process where we sadly can lose some of that precious awareness we gained from previous lives, kinda like we have to re-ignite that spark within and old memories slowly resurface in the nascent mind through life. It's a tricky one to figure out.

Good question though!

Tricky things are indeed tricky to figure out -- if you think you know the trick and you get stuck on it, then maybe those things become quite sticky, sticking you into place for you to potentially reflect on.

I'll note that one purpose of life is to live. In living, life usually ushers in more life of its same kind. Individuals or entire groups of life may have their bodies die at some point or another, for innumerable reasons. Yet our conceptions of the bodies of life are rather dense and limiting, our perceptions are clouded with only the things that we can see, and our thoughts are befuddled with not only the faint glimmers of wisdom that we are inspired with individually, but also with everyone else's that we may pay attention to, collectively.

In these lives, we ask ourselves, "How am/are I/we to live life?", yet every single possible answer to that will be wrapped around an invisible hue of 3rd density STS possibility. Every single idea will be influenced in matters of political strife, economic systems, legal structures, philosophies of thought, religious beliefs, physiological processes, spiritual experiences, and so on.

If the purpose of life is to otherwise accumulate knowledge and awareness, you might end up short handed. I'll put it into an absurd mathematical formulation, to use as an example. If in 3d density life, there are infinitely many things to know, how can you possibly hope to know everything that there was, is, and will be made known, for all eternity? Do you then use what you learned for only your own benefit, or also to the benefit of other life on the planet? And how is that to be done -- carefully, with caution thrown into the wind, or with respect to what other life asks for?

The best part about all of this funny business, is what is an STO pathway? There have been numerous iterations of similar, beguiling traditions since the medieval past. Christian parables, Buddhism, Daoism, the Grail Romances, Alchemy, the Rosicrucian pamphlets, Rudolf Steiner's Anthrosophy, and so many more since! Even Emmanuel Swedenborg had his experiences with non-2nd/3rd density life (in the abridged quote, with a full transcript attached below).

...

Swedenborg begins by explaining that since he has the gift of speaking with spirits and angels, he was granted opportunities to interact with beings from other planets, learning about their life, customs, and religions. We must reserve a fair bit of caution in this regard because we cannot know where Swedenborg is stating as fact something that he is misinterpreting or otherwise we cannot always tell where we are listening to the man's imagination his actual experience or some fusion of both. For instance, he claims there are no such thing as angels or spirits who are not human, which in itself is likely false unless with the Latin word for human. Swedenborg is expanding the definition to encompass more meaning. He may be doing this and saying that these other beings are all human in a broader sense, that they have a spirit and intelligence and the capabilities that we do as well. He does describe seeing angels appear to him like a cloud with orbs of light at first only to take on the shape of a human later as if the beings can take the form of whatever they wish and to appear more familiar to the observer. He also appears to be forcing the Christian ideology of Jesus being the Lord incarnate onto the rest of the solar system and beyond, which is definitely a weakness in regards to how optimistic we should feel about this text to say nothing about the probability of human life existing on planets such as Venus and our moon in the same way that we live on Earth. However, he does describe these beings as spiritual beings, in which case they are not limited to the same degree as Earth humans are in our more dense physical form. He also implies that this communication is done through the universal language we call telepathy today. In one case, Swedenborg claims to have been taken to the vicinity of a planet far outside of our solar system, and he learns that they do not answer to any monarch or central government. They do not live beyond their simple needs of food and clothing, and they worship both a visible and an invisible god. In fact, it troubled these beings when Swedenborg pressed them with questions about their government because he implied that they were immoral and could not figure out how to live together without guarding their belongings or taking resources from others. But back in our familiar solar system, Swedenborg describes his interactions with spirits from Mercury. And in this example, we cannot resist the idea that Swedenborg experienced some 18th century version of UFO phenomena. In fact, if he is telling the truth, he describes something very similar to the regular modern UAP phenomena of intelligent orbs of light. Quote, "Some of them also wish to appear not as men like the spirits of other Earths, but as crystalline globes." He says, "I kept seeing a fairly bright, cheerful flame for the better part of an hour. The flame signaled the arrival of some other spirits from Mercury, but these spirits scrutinized things, thought about them, and communicated even more rapidly than the earlier ones.

As soon as they came, they ran through the contents of my memory, but I could not catch what they were observing because they were so quick." I kept hearing them say, "Yes, that's right." As for what I had seen in the heavens and the world of spirits, they said they already knew that information. I perceived that there was a large group of spirits accompanying them. Now, even if Swedenborg has unknowingly corrupted some of the details of his experiences, or we ourselves lack the clarity of his insights, his book represents an extremely out of place concept of the universe for his time. And many of us today could still find useful ideas from studying it. After all, when we eventually discover other planets with intelligent life, quote, "What would this be for the creator of the universe, for whom it would not be enough if the whole universe were full? The creator is, after all, infinite." Swedenborg described seeing a planet with women sorcerers in green clothing, practicing something that filled him with horror. He also explained that on other planets it is common for the inhabitants to regularly speak with spirits and angels and that many planets already know that the universe is teeming with life. He mentions some planets worshiping a host of angels that were sent to them by God while some worshiped their god through symbolic images. He described meeting a spiritual version of Aristotle who claimed that he believed in one god but quote god's various attributes and qualities had been given names that others eventually worshiped as separate gods. Swedenborg also mentions certain angels telling him about a previous age on our planet where everyone spoke with perfect honesty and there were no wars or strife. Quote, "Because of this, angels were able to interact with people on earth in those days and lift people's minds almost entirely out of their bodily perspective into heaven. Angels were able to take people around heaven and show them grand and joyful things, sharing their own joys and happiness with them. These times were well known to ancient authors who called them the golden or Saturnian age. For Swedenborg, the soul was like a hand wearing a glove. And while the hand still wears the glove, it cannot know what it truly is. The embodied life is at the very end of a chain of causes that stretches far into higher levels of being. At death, therefore, we will begin to retrace our steps in the chain of causes. And in remembering our total selves, we will find ourselves surrounded by angels and divine beings befitting our nature. And our options will be laid out before us in a limitless expanse.

Perhaps a more robust possibility to souls repeating this 3rd density STS experience, is that they never did consider, think, or take responsibility for the harm that they caused unto other forms of life, especially to those that they interacted with. But with the internet these days, you can easily find out about a lot of things if you need to. Maybe that's everyone's collective opportunity now, since in the past you would have been quite lucky if you even stumbled upon any tradition. In short, we're in 3rd density STS, because we forgot what an STO pathway is. Despite this planet being its usual mess, I think it's a great place for souls to learn what they need to, and not what they want to, for now at least.

 

[Fluffy]

The only problem is that so-called "black holes" are a (scenic) delusion, and "black hole" science is just pseudo-science, as explained (or demonstrated) by Jean-Pierre Petit.
Theoretical delusion due to a misinterpretation (during the 40's or 50's and going on) of the first Schwarzschild's article (written and published during WW1) giving an exact solution to Einstein's equation.

J.-P. Petit proposes another concept to replace "black holes" : plugstars.
(The name is a reference to sink plugs, because according to his Janus cosmological model, these super massive objects are like "interfaces" between positive and negative mass "sides" of the Universe. Being attracted and "going through" such an object "inverts" the mass of matter : positive mass matter becomes negative mass matter.
It's similar, but different, to the ideas of black holes / white holes / wormholes.)

For more info :

So... I wonder why people here (including the team and the Cs) are still discussing this false concept !

PS: EricLux made some interesting comments about black holes in this message on the cited thread.

I don’t remember the name of a movie I watched that depicted ‘black hole’ something like this, windows or doors to an alternate reality, I envision something like that, other universes, though obviously my scope of trying to comprehend this is 3D so what I see in my mind is matter and non matter (so consciousness) being sucked in to rearrange itself on the ‘other side’ into different realities, which also have ‘black hole’ windows making the concept of eternity endless and that’s where I can’t go because I really cannot grok something that has no end.

 

[ToxicCoward]

Main reason would be free will. Just because STS could become STO candidates doesn't mean they will/have to.
Someone chas to balance things out.. If all would choose to change there would be no choice cause everyone would be same.

Also if they would change their behaviour based on wanting to avoid expiriencing pain after death i do not think that would be STO at all.

Another possibilitiy is that some of them may be masochists and even if their souls expirience pain they caused to others they enjoy it.

 

[Joe]

If, after death, the soul goes through a kind of awakening of conscience — fully feeling the pain it caused others, as if it were its own — then why do some souls still choose to follow the path of selfishness and control (Service to Self) in their next incarnations?

I don't think it's exactly like that, at least not based on the literature available. Apparently, in 5D, you feel the full range of emotions, but it's not the same as feeling them while incarnated, mainly because there isn't the feeling of threat or danger or imminent demise that can come with emotions while in the body. So there's a certain 'detachment' from them.

So I'd say isn't really that you "feel the pain it caused others" because you simply can't because you're not in a body. I'd say it's more like learning where and how you went wrong and what you could have done better, but without judgement because, hey, it's all just lessons.

But even our ability to understand that is limited by our, well, ability to understand, which it seems is a function of lessons in 3D. So you can see how a soul in 5D, after reviewing a life, might opt to go back and "do better this time".

STS or STO is fundamentally a function of awareness, i.e. knowledge and being, and progress in that respect can't be rushed or short-cutted. As the Cs said, 'when you've learned, you've learned'. And it seems the only real way for us to learn the limitations and ultimate futility of STS is through successive 3D incarnations and the lessons, learning and knowledge that provides.

 

[Brewer]

This is something I've been reflecting on lately, and I’d love to hear different perspectives:
If, after death, the soul goes through a kind of awakening of conscience — fully feeling the pain it caused others, as if it were its own — then why do some souls still choose to follow the path of selfishness and control (Service to Self) in their next incarnations?

A childhood friend, his dad participated in the Malayan Emergency as ground crew in the Aussie air force. The Aussie SAS saw him and realized his 'potential' and he participated in their missions. As kid he'd regale us with adventures; long story short, atrocities on brown people who wanted their country back. This diminished over time and the last time I saw him he was telling me that everyone he raped, murdered, tortured and mutilated visited him nightly in his dreams. This was in 2012 and we were at his son's wedding in Thailand surrounded by people who looked just like those he raped, murdered, tortured and mutilated 60 years earlier. You could tell he was suffering greatly so there's no getting away it by the looks of things, unless you're a complete psycho. He died just this last February, be interesting to see how he's going now.

 

[axj]

You could tell he was suffering greatly so there's no getting away it by the looks of things, unless you're a complete psycho.

OPs may also have a different experience. It may even be that OPs who experience 4D STS downloads may not even be responsible for what they do, or only partly. And how does karma work for group souls of the OPs? Is there anything like a life review there?