In Search of the Miraculous

Belibaste said:
I don't think your point of view is silly. Indeed several symbol systems present the moon as the symbol of feminine, creation, night... by opposition to the sun: masculine, action, day...

With this symbolism attached to the moon, I can understand you had difficulties understanding why G. used a usually positive symbol to describe such a negative phenomenon (feeding 4D STS).

This being said, whatever symbol G. uses in his metaphor what really matters is the meaning of the metaphor and now this point seems to be clarified.

It's also worth remembering that Gurdjieff wasn't in the habit of pandering to people's mechanical expectations. In his quest to interrupt our automatic thinking he often deliberately turned familiar or comfortable ideas upside down - perhaps that's another reason for using this particular metaphor 'against' its traditional imagery. As I learn more about him and his writings (much that I still don't understand, of course!), I never cease to be amazed to see how carefully and deliberately he chooses what to say, always with a conscious pre-thought-out purpose, nothing is by accident.
 
Thanks to you all.

In his quest to interrupt our automatic thinking he often deliberately turned familiar or comfortable ideas upside down - perhaps that's another reason for using this particular metaphor 'against' its traditional imagery.

Aye, he DID do that!

This will also help me going forward, being able to approach his teachings with a much wider perspective lens.
 
I would like to suggest an esoteric perspective on Gurdjieff's allegorical use of the Moon. As Beelzebub arrived in exile on the planet Mars, the comet Kondoor collided with the earth and split off the Moon and Anulios, whose existence people have forgotten. In esoteric study, it is my understanding, that allegory is the principle method of teaching the inner structure of man and woman. In Gurdjieff's Fourth Way teaching, man and woman are three brained beings. We can be considered to have a thinking brain, a motor instinctive brain, and a feeling brain.

Now, consider this allegorical presentation of the inner man and woman. There is the cataclysm of becoming a three brained being from the unity of the single cell's growth into fetus, birth, and the splitting of the identity of man and woman into a Self, centered in the thinking brain, as per Descartes, with the Moon thought of as the motor instinctive brain and Anulios, the feeling brain, a barely known and invisible fragment, both orbiting the thinking Self.

OK, we are "food for the Moon". The great thinking Self, the center of our conception of Self and the crown of being human today, is food for the motor instinctive needs of the physical body. The creature comforts of food, sex, sleep, etc. usurp control of the Self as a functioning three brained being. The control function flows within the being from the physical to the intellect. The Earth represents the thinking brain or a masculine function of initiating and the Moon represents the feminine passive or resistance function of the physical body. The dynamic is reversed from its intended direction. The Law of Three would govern the initiative from Earth to Moon and reconciled in Anulios. By deception a tragedy occurs, with the initiative originating in the motor instinctive , feeding upon the thinking brain, and the feeling brain remaining unborn in our perversion of the Law of Three within the inner man and inner woman. Hence, we are "food for the Moon."

Unknown Anulios, the sleeping and invisible feeling brain, orbits the tragic Self of an intellect consumed as "food for the Moon." We do not even know or bother to feed Anulios, the shrunken and invisible emotional function in modern man and woman. The Fourth Way impulse is to awaken the observer on Mars, to see this tragic arrangement of man and woman which Gurdjieff calls the organ Kundabuffer. The Fourth Way is balancing and ordering the relationship of the three brains, bringing about the gestation and birth of a new Self. Hence, the saying that we must be born again. The old Self must die and the three brains balanced to establish higher functions and an awakened Self.

I do not know if this interpretation is understanding or imagination. It is not literal, Atlantis is man and woman's conscience, sunk beneath the sea of Self, a Self which is a monster, perverted from our great potential as three brained beings, balanced and connected to the Cosmic Mind. I cannot understand aliens or dimensions except as metaphor. Metaphor and allegory speak to me as the fairy tales and Bible stories did when I was a child, before education ended my age of metaphor and began the solidification of my soul as "food for the moon". Is this view, useful or even close to Gurdjieff's intention?
 
In eastern and western folklore, the moon is associated with negative stuff. Full moon was believed to cause erratic behavior - the word lunacy is derived from lunar. Apart from English, such a correlation is also seen in Welsh language according to wikipedia. Werewolves and vampires were supposedly connected to the moon. There is also a correspondence between black magic type activities - witchcraft, tantric rituals etc - with the moon. It could be possible that Gurdjieff had picked the moon as the metaphor due to the negative public perceptions connected with the moon.
Most modern day studies on the effect of the moon on human behavior seem to debunk the "lunacy" correlation and labels such a perception as superstition.
 
Hi go2,

That was a very detailed analysis/metaphor. I'm sure that it is accurate and useful to many high functioning and neurologically in-tact individuals. Thank you for breaking it down so thoroughly.

Unfortunately, it is on a level of complexity that I am unable to visualize and translate into an understood concept. I only vaguely get it, because I have a notion ahead of time of what you are trying to convey.

I have the feeling that if I come back to it later, maybe it will make more sense to me. Thanks again for taking the time to put it all "in other words."

:offtopic: (Due to a severe torsion of the sphenoid, a trauma that causes a disconnect between the right and left brain, translating complex concepts in to understanding is an on-going challenge. I try very hard not to burden others with my desire to understand things. It is my responsibility to try very hard to learn as best as I can on my own, without expecting the rest of the world to meet me on my own limited terms.

This thread has made me cry. Twice. Out of utter frustration and feeling stupid. Most of the time, if I don't understand something, I just let it go as I have found that clawing at it and trying to force understanding does not work. Force creates resistance. I am like a high functioning autistic. Highly motivated. Intelligent and curious. But just smart enough to realize that something is missing/off/wrong. Unwilling to make excuses for it -most of the time- as that causes people to assume me incapable and to treat me quite differently.

I didn't really intend to go in to this just now, and it belongs in the swamp. When I am ready... I will bring it there. But I felt I should explain a little before someone gets overly frustrated with putting forth efforts that are not understood, though hugely appreciated. So... thanks to you all for helping me. I promise.... I am trying.

I hope this makes some sense, as I am writing it directly from the seat of my pants.)

edit: spelling
 
Hi go2
go2 said:
... Is this view, useful or even close to Gurdjieff's intention?
I can't speak for the latter, but in my view what you have written is useful. A great metaphorical analogy.
I would like to suggest an esoteric perspective on Gurdjieff's allegorical use of the Moon. As Beelzebub arrived in exile on the planet Mars, the comet Kondoor collided with the earth and split off the Moon and Anulios, whose existence people have forgotten. In esoteric study, it is my understanding, that allegory is the principle method of teaching the inner structure of man and woman. In Gurdjieff's Fourth Way teaching, man and woman are three brained beings. We can be considered to have a thinking brain, a motor instinctive brain, and a feeling brain.

Now, consider this allegorical presentation of the inner man and woman. There is the cataclysm of becoming a three brained being from the unity of the single cell's growth into fetus, birth, and the splitting of the identity of man and woman into a Self, centered in the thinking brain, as per Descartes, with the Moon thought of as the motor instinctive brain and Anulios, the feeling brain, a barely known and invisible fragment, both orbiting the thinking Self.
...

Unknown Anulios, the sleeping and invisible feeling brain, orbits the tragic Self of an intellect consumed as "food for the Moon." We do not even know or bother to feed Anulios, the shrunken and invisible emotional function in modern man and woman. The Fourth Way impulse is to awaken the observer on Mars, to see this tragic arrangement of man and woman which Gurdjieff calls the organ Kundabuffer. The Fourth Way is balancing and ordering the relationship of the three brains, bringing about the gestation and birth of a new Self. Hence, the saying that we must be born again. The old Self must die and the three brains balanced to establish higher functions and an awakened Self.
That certainly resonates well with me; works for me. Then again, I am a 'shallow breather' and 'emotionally constipated'.
 
Hi Lauranimal --

Lauranimal said:
:offtopic: (Due to a severe torsion of the sphenoid, a trauma that causes a disconnect between the right and left brain, translating complex concepts in to understanding is an on-going challenge. I try very hard not to burden others with my desire to understand things. It is my responsibility to try very hard to learn as best as I can on my own, without expecting the rest of the world to meet me on my own limited terms.

That (severe torsion of the sphenoid) sounds really rough, and I'm sorry to hear about it! If it makes any difference, I never would have guessed based on your participation here. Knowing about it now does increase my respect for you though, since complex concepts abound on the pages of the forum!

Lauranimal said:
This thread has made me cry. Twice. Out of utter frustration and feeling stupid. Most of the time, if I don't understand something, I just let it go as I have found that clawing at it and trying to force understanding does not work. Force creates resistance. I am like a high functioning autistic. Highly motivated. Intelligent and curious. But just smart enough to realize that something is missing/off/wrong. Unwilling to make excuses for it -most of the time- as that causes people to assume me incapable and to treat me quite differently.

Again, I think your attitude is commendable. I wanted to let you know that I've actually really appreciated this thread, because I never really understood Gurdjieff's metaphor of the moon either. I knew that it had been suggested that it was an allusion to 4D STS, but I never really had an 'aha' moment where I made a connection between the two concepts and it suddenly made sense to me. So thanks for bringing the topic up and pursuing it on behalf of those of us who had the same question.
 
Thank you Shijing. Your words are kind and comforting

That (severe torsion of the sphenoid) sounds really rough,

I have developed many coping mechanisms. I can't just sit in a puddle and feel sorry for myself, though sometimes it feels pretty devastating.

and I'm sorry to hear about it! If it makes any difference, I never would have guessed based on your participation here. Knowing about it now does increase my respect for you though, since complex concepts abound on the pages of the forum!

They do indeed! I fight hard for every scrap of understanding. And it is worth it. Much of it is over my head, but I return to it as my knowledge increases, and things that didn't make sense at one point, become more clear later. It has forced me to develop a degree of patience that is not natural to me.

Again, I think your attitude is commendable. I wanted to let you know that I've actually really appreciated this thread, because I never really understood Gurdjieff's metaphor of the moon either. I knew that it had been suggested that it was an allusion to 4D STS, but I never really had an 'aha' moment where I made a connection between the two concepts and it suddenly made sense to me. So thanks for bringing the topic up and pursuing it on behalf of those of us who had the same question.

Thanks. I am glad to know that this is also helping others. I am so impressed by the information that everyone has offered. It is slowly sinking in. Chances are, I will be in the middle of a conversation, in the process of being... and suddenly knowledge will kick me in the pants.

Quote by Obyvatel:
In eastern and western folklore, the moon is associated with negative stuff. Full moon was believed to cause erratic behavior - the word lunacy is derived from lunar. Apart from English, such a correlation is also seen in Welsh language according to wikipedia. Werewolves and vampires were supposedly connected to the moon. There is also a correspondence between black magic type activities - witchcraft, tantric rituals etc - with the moon. It could be possible that Gurdjieff had picked the moon as the metaphor due to the negative public perceptions connected with the moon.
Most modern day studies on the effect of the moon on human behavior seem to debunk the "lunacy" correlation and labels such a perception as superstition.

Thanks Obyvatel. I had not thought of that. In fact, I live near a hospital, and leading up to and during full moons, the sirens and helicopters seem to increase incrementally to a creshendo of non-stop noise. I have also noticed that PMS becomes, 'Parted from My Sanity" LOL!

The point I am at in the book right now is very eye opening. PDO is describing how everything has 7 levels. And as he gives the detailed examples of the 7 levels of Being, the 7 levels of Knowledge ... I find myself sliding into an understanding of why it is important to develop both Knowledge and Being at the same time. I rated my knowledge at one level, and my Being at another and suddenly a lot of things that Laura has been teaching, made sense.
 
In secret history, when I dealt with the topic at some length, I discussed the three body problem, the Metonic cycle, and how this might relate to a knowledge of hyperdimensions. I think that in older times, when humanity had a GOOD relationship with hyperdimensional beings, i.e. 4 D STO, the moon - which was very important in the cycle of renewal - was a positive representation. But after the 4 D STS takeover made blatant (probably at the time of the Great Deluge 13,000 KYA), and the introduction of psychopathy onto the world stage for this cycle, the Moon continued to represent hyperdimensional doorways, but of a negative sort.

Just my theory at the moment.
 
Due to a severe torsion of the sphenoid, a trauma that causes a disconnect between the right and left brain, translating complex concepts in to understanding is an on-going challenge.

Hi Lauranimal,

Fwiw, overcoming a disconnect of the right and left brain is what all of us must do, and you are a fine example to emulate.
 
Quote from Laura:
"...I think that in older times, when humanity had a GOOD relationship with hyperdimensional beings, i.e. 4 D STO, the moon - which was very important in the cycle of renewal - was a positive representation. But after the 4 D STS takeover made blatant (probably at the time of the Great Deluge 13,000 KYA), and the introduction of psychopathy onto the world stage for this cycle, the Moon continued to represent hyperdimensional doorways, but of a negative sort.

This rings true to me!

Quote from Jerry:
Fwiw, overcoming a disconnect of the right and left brain is what all of us must do, and you are a fine example to emulate.

Thanks Jerry ... My mantra is, "Never Give up !!!" with the occasional, "You cannot smash my Soul !!!" thrown in.

Great news! I have all my limbs, I have my eyesight and hearing, I have a pretty great job with access to excellent, healthy food right on site. I have a supportive group of people on this forum and blueberrys taste amazing. There is much to be grateful for. Today I am able to feel that.
 
[quote author=lauranimal]Great news! I have all my limbs, I have my eyesight and hearing, I have a pretty great job with access to excellent, healthy food right on site. I have a supportive group of people on this forum and blueberrys taste amazing. There is much to be grateful for. Today I am able to feel that.[/quote]

Very cool. :cool2:
 
Laura said:
I think that in older times, when humanity had a GOOD relationship with hyperdimensional beings, i.e. 4 D STO, the moon - which was very important in the cycle of renewal - was a positive representation. But after the 4 D STS takeover made blatant (probably at the time of the Great Deluge 13,000 KYA), and the introduction of psychopathy onto the world stage for this cycle, the Moon continued to represent hyperdimensional doorways, but of a negative sort.

Just my theory at the moment.

Its quite an interesting theory though, and I look forward to your follow-up on it whenever and wherever you choose to do it. The idea that our pre-deluge ancestors even had the option of being in contact with 4D STO never occurred to me, since I thought that as 3D STS beings (which we were even then, if I understand correctly) we would not have had the option due to lack of FRV match-up.

When you say "after the 4 D STS takeover made blatant (probably at the time of the Great Deluge 13,000 KYA)", do you think that the deluge was in some way caused by 4D STS in an indirect way, or that it merely provided an accidental opportunity that they could then take advantage of?
 
Quote from Shijing:
"...The idea that our pre-deluge ancestors even had the option of being in contact with 4D STO never occurred to me, since I thought that as 3D STS beings (which we were even then, if I understand correctly) we would not have had the option due to lack of FRV match-up. "

I immediately thought of this when Laura mentioned her theory. (had some trouble finding reference to it, and I thought that she had written more about it somewhere else too.)

Quote from: Session 04.15.00
Q: (T) [...]So, by going to the stones, they might have increased their frequencies to transit from 3rd to 4th density. (L) Or they used them as a direct machine or device to do it. Archaeologists say that the people who erected the megaliths were barbarians. They are defined as barbarians because they didn't build cities, they didn't have the wheel, they didn't have organized agriculture, and they left no written records. Those are the defined elements of civilization. Yet, this group of people, whoever they were, did things that we cannot duplicate today, and they did it all over the globe. The groups who came along after them who DID have all the hallmarks of what we call civilization, also could not erect these gargantuan stones. I thought about this for a long time. Archaeologists say they must have erected them as monuments to their gods, or heroes or whatever. Some of them think they were calendars to tell them when to plant the corn. Well, I think that is stretching it a bit. If you can't cross off the days on the wall and look outside and see that it is time to plant the corn, you're in pretty sad shape. You hardly need to haul stones as big as buildings across hills and valleys to set them up in special places to tell you to do that! The psychology of the human being cannot have changed all that much over the many thousands of years from then to now, and it is true that people do not do anything without a powerful motivation; what I call the "payoff." What could be the payoff to haul these things around on greased logs as they are depicted? To create a monument or to bury their kings? To get naked and dance in the moonlight? (A) Like they had a lot of time to do this while struggling to live the barbarian existence, too! (L) Yeah. They are supposed to be howling savages who must constantly hunt to get food, yet they are spending all their time, occupying all their strongest men, to push rocks around! Meanwhile, according to the archaeologists and paleontologists, these folks only live to about 40 years at max! (T) They got a lot of mileage out of those 40 years! (L) Exactly! But, we are supposed to be thinking about the things they didn't have: cities, wheels, agriculture, and writing. (F) Maybe they didn't need it. (L) And why would that be? Because the stones did it all! (T) Maybe they were 4th density STO beings who planted all those stones all over the place. (L) Well, if you think about a group of people who are setting up these massive stones like they were pieces of styrofoam. The stones collect energy and information. They then transduce the energy or amplify it. These people know things about movement, dances or spinning or something, that enables them to behave in concert with the stones so that they all become part of a grand machine that does things! All of the legends talk about stylized dances and the oldest things about Stonehenge say that it was the Temple of Apollo and that Apollo danced there all night at certain periods of time. Every 19 years, I believe. When you think about that, and the other places Apollo appeared, the inversions and redactions of the legends, and we come to these magical stones that produce things. Then we come to the head of Bran the Blessed which supposedly produced endless supplies of bread and fish or whatever else was desired. Bran's head was the giver of all good things. But more than that, it was an oracle. It could speak. And here we have the idea of a similar function for Stonehenge: both an oracle as well as a giver of blessings and bounty. Anything you wanted or needed it provided for you. If you wanted to go somewhere, it transported you as in the legends of the flying carpets. It was magic transportation. All of these things are associated, when you track them back far enough, with a stone. The stones did everything. (JM) And it is funny that stones come up. What I have been doing for the past 10 or 15 years is running around the globe collecting stones. I've been to some of the most ancient places on earth, and I go from one to the other. And from each one, I've collected stones. Plus, Apollo: on Crete, there was an oracle of Apollo on Tara... (L) And there was Tara in Ireland... (JM) I wouldn't be surprised if Tara meant stone too! How is all this connected? (L) Exactly. This is what I have always thought about these megaliths. They DID things. All of the things we think are the "signs" of civilization were done by the stones. Maybe TR is right; these people were at some level of density where they could make this work. At some point, something happened, the ability was lost, and then people had to build cities, engage in agriculture, invent the wheel, and develop writing - because they could no longer do it the "easy" way. (JM) In talking about stones, would the mother of all stones be the navel of the earth; is that the same as Ayers rock? It's the largest stone on earth and they call it the navel of the earth. (L) Does Ayers rock have anything to do with this?
A: No. Stones were once utilized to provide for all needs, as the energies transmitted connected directly with the pituitary gland to connect spiritual realities with the material realms of 3rd and 4th densities. So you see, the "stone" was viewed as Matriarchal indeed!
 
Lauranimal said:
Quote from: Session 04.15.00
A: Stones were once utilized to provide for all needs, as the energies transmitted connected directly with the pituitary gland to connect spiritual realities with the material realms of 3rd and 4th densities. So you see, the "stone" was viewed as Matriarchal indeed!

Yes, that is an interesting connection, especially considering that the moon, from our perspective, is one enormous stone in orbit. It also reminds me of the excerpts about 'fluted pillars':

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=13486.0

I had forgotten the details of this (despite the fact that it was my own post! :-[), so of course this supports the idea that our ancestors did have the ability to be in contact with 4D STO at some point.

Oh, this also inspired a question for me regarding this general topic:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=15738.msg131628#new
 
Back
Top Bottom