Induced Lucid Dreaming

[PerihelionX]

I recently had a very interesting conversation with a friend of a friend who is an experienced "Astral traveler" who has had numerous OBEs. Whether or not this is prudent is perhaps a matter of debate. However, he gave me some materials which promises 90% success in triggering a dreamstate OBE. I was able to achieve an OBE from a dreamstate within 3 nights of attempting using this method. Unfortunately maintaining a high quality OBE for any length of time takes practice and effort.

The OBE, as stated before, is induced from a lucid dream state. It begins as a lucid dream of your enviroment but can rapidly change into a dream if not actively controlled. In this sense there is skill and practice involved in maintaining the "objectivity" of the dream and avoiding sidetracking into a normal dreamscape.

Since trying to induce the lucid dream state I have found myself spontaneously transitioning into lucid dreams during my normal sleep. It's evidence that the skills and techniques used to induce lucid dreams may have application for normal dream control and exploration.

My questions to all of you.

1. Is this material something of interesting to anyone else? 90% success rate for triggering a dreamstate OBE within 5 nights.

2. Is there anything useful to be gained from honing this skill?

3. What are the possible dangers or pitfalls?

 

[mkrnhr]

Hi PerihelionX,
Out of Body experience has been discussed in several threads in the forum. You can for instance consider these ones:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,14997.0.html
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,16389.0.html

A rapid answer would be that OBE is experience chasing and just a distraction from the Work. Plus, it can be dangerous with no real benefits work-wise. It is better to consider the threads for more details, and follow the links to the Wave chapter for a more in depth argumentation.

Hope it helps :)

 

[PerihelionX]

Thanks for the links. I read the threads and it seems that the entire business is "open" so to speak. It's not bad or good but simply seems to be a means. I've read some people using lucid dreaming to work on their subconscious more directly, perhaps there is opportunity to use it as a tool. I agree experience chasing is a futile effort but that does not mean why should refuse new experiences off hand either.

 

[anart]

Thanks for the links. I read the threads and it seems that the entire business is "open" so to speak. It's not bad or good but simply seems to be a means. I've read some people using lucid dreaming to work on their subconscious more directly, perhaps there is opportunity to use it as a tool. I agree experience chasing is a futile effort but that does not mean why should refuse new experiences off hand either.

It sounds like you want to go "play" with lucid dreaming, so you're coming up with rationalizations about why you should go "play". So, go play - it's your choice. When you've reached a point that you actually want to Work on yourself, then perhaps your focus will shift to more productive pursuits along that line - we'll probably still be here to help once you've reached that point - well - the future is open, but we'll see!

 

[PerihelionX]

Thanks for the links. I read the threads and it seems that the entire business is "open" so to speak. It's not bad or good but simply seems to be a means. I've read some people using lucid dreaming to work on their subconscious more directly, perhaps there is opportunity to use it as a tool. I agree experience chasing is a futile effort but that does not mean why should refuse new experiences off hand either.

It sounds like you want to go "play" with lucid dreaming, so you're coming up with rationalizations about why you should go "play". So, go play - it's your choice. When you've reached a point that you actually want to Work on yourself, then perhaps your focus will shift to more productive pursuits along that line - we'll probably still be here to help once you've reached that point - well - the future is open, but we'll see!

You seem to be pre-judging my intent. If I wished to go play in lucid dreaming I would have continued and not sought advice and input from the more experienced. Without interacting and asking how am I to discover what is "more productive." Furthemore, if you or the community has already decided what is "most productive" than how will we learn as a group? I guess my curiosity about lucid dreaming / OBE as a tool has not been satisfied. To say that it is dangerous is understandable, so is channeling for those who are not wary and informed.

I guess I'm just looking for a more in depth answer then a flat "no don't look over there."

 

[anart]

You seem to be pre-judging my intent.

Not really, I'm just pointing out that from what you've written it's obvious that you want to play with this, despite the information you've already been offered.

If I wished to go play in lucid dreaming I would have continued and not sought advice and input from the more experienced. Without interacting and asking how am I to discover what is "more productive." Furthemore, if you or the community has already decided what is "most productive" than how will we learn as a group?

You've just been pointed to what the group has already learned and you interpreted it via the lens of your desire. Reinventing the wheel isn't really the point, though, and as they say, people tend to have to learn from their own mistakes, only geniuses learn from the mistakes of others.

I guess my curiosity about lucid dreaming / OBE as a tool has not been satisfied.

Which was my point, yet you say that I am "pre-judging" you...

To say that it is dangerous is understandable, so is channeling for those who are not wary and informed.

Yep, as has been pointed out ad nauseam on this forum.

I guess I'm just looking for a more in depth answer then a flat "no don't look over there."

Did you read the threads already offered? No one said "don't look over there" - that's not how it works here, but we do most certainly provide information to people who are actually asking when we can.

 

[PerihelionX]

We seem to be speaking past each other. You seem to have a broader context to evaluate the concepts than I do. Yet working from within my limited knowledge I cannot help but ask the questions from my place. I do want to obtain that broader context and learn by your experience. I read both threads you suggested and while both pointed out the pitfalls of "experience chasing" neither addressed Lucid dreaming/OBE as a tool for the work. Breathing, diet, etc can be useful tools. I want to know if this too can be a tool and why or why not.

 

[anart]

We seem to be speaking past each other. You seem to have a broader context to evaluate the concepts than I do. Yet working from within my limited knowledge I cannot help but ask the questions from my place. I do want to obtain that broader context and learn by your experience. I read both threads you suggested and while both pointed out the pitfalls of "experience chasing" neither addressed Lucid dreaming/OBE as a tool for the work.

That's because it is not a tool for the Work - it is a distraction from the Work, to our understanding.

You do not want to accept that idea because you want the 'experience' - so - go do what you want to do, no one is stopping you, but we also aren't going to pretend that it is anything other than what it is. We are trying to awaken, not dive further into the dream, but that is not for everyone and all there is is lessons, as they say. Fwiw.

 

[seek10]

We seem to be speaking past each other. You seem to have a broader context to evaluate the concepts than I do. Yet working from within my limited knowledge I cannot help but ask the questions from my place. I do want to obtain that broader context and learn by your experience. I read both threads you suggested and while both pointed out the pitfalls of "experience chasing" neither addressed Lucid dreaming/OBE as a tool for the work. Breathing, diet, etc can be useful tools. I want to know if this too can be a tool and why or why not.

Breathing, diet benefit are proven, measurable based on sound scientific research. OBE/Lucid dreaming are not. when some guru/teacher/expert or some body says or writes about them, that doesn't prove any thing. Many of these type of guru/teacher/experts can be found in NEW AGE cointelpro forum section

 

[PerihelionX]

We seem to be speaking past each other. You seem to have a broader context to evaluate the concepts than I do. Yet working from within my limited knowledge I cannot help but ask the questions from my place. I do want to obtain that broader context and learn by your experience. I read both threads you suggested and while both pointed out the pitfalls of "experience chasing" neither addressed Lucid dreaming/OBE as a tool for the work. Breathing, diet, etc can be useful tools. I want to know if this too can be a tool and why or why not.

Breathing, diet benefit are proven, measurable based on sound scientific research. OBE/Lucid dreaming are not. when some guru/teacher/expert or some body says or writes about them, that doesn't prove any thing. Many of these type of guru/teacher/experts can be found in NEW AGE cointelpro forum section

This satisfies me more. Thank you. It's the difference between saying "there is nothing in the jungle of value" and saying "No one has found anything of value in the jungle and furthermore there are tigers and the people who do say there is something there are proven liers"

 

[kenlee]

2. Is there anything useful to be gained from honing this skill?

The important thing is to develop proper DISCERNMENT, in a practical way, in this world via The Work (read In Search Of The Miraculous). If you can apply it in this world then it's a tool that can be applied to any other 'world' if and when required. But even in this world we live in a kind of dream. So waking up starts here in this world. The Work speaks of getting in contact with conscience. You can't dream and experience conscience at the same time. Conscience is what wakes us up out of the dream state into the real world.

 

[monotonic]

We seem to be speaking past each other. You seem to have a broader context to evaluate the concepts than I do. Yet working from within my limited knowledge I cannot help but ask the questions from my place. I do want to obtain that broader context and learn by your experience. I read both threads you suggested and while both pointed out the pitfalls of "experience chasing" neither addressed Lucid dreaming/OBE as a tool for the work.

That's because it is not a tool for the Work - it is a distraction from the Work, to our understanding.

You do not want to accept that idea because you want the 'experience' - so - go do what you want to do, no one is stopping you, but we also aren't going to pretend that it is anything other than what it is. We are trying to awaken, not dive further into the dream, but that is not for everyone and all there is is lessons, as they say. Fwiw.

I think the bold is the important part. You may do it, but if you do don't lie to yourself about what you are doing, the purpose of it, your motivations, etc. That is part of "psychic hygiene". For a brief review, why don't you look at the attachment here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,30858.msg411521.html#msg411521

That said I have tried in the past to stimulate astral/lucid experiences. It rarely worked. The only time it works for me is if there is that "awe" quality in the air during the day, a certain sensation which suggests to me the Unknown is at hand. Then when I go to bed I will tend to have a vivid lucid dream no matter what. IE it's not in my control, it seems to be environmental. If I try to stimulate the experience I'll find I'm "pulled" into a dream while still conscious. During one such experience I had lucid dreams within dreams, and after interpreting these dreams they were basically enactments of lessons I have learned on the forum about lucid dreams. IE, they are DREAMS.

I may have learned something useful with this experimentation. In the induction exercise I can get to the point where I feel "fuzzy" and lose feeling in my limbs and body. The body seems to fall asleep while the mind is still awake. I find that staying in this state for a while seems to rejuvenate my body and stop inflammation. This is immediately useful to me, which is what matters. But if one watches the diet and treats their body right, there should be no need for that, right?

Just like anything else, dreams can be a distraction that you will use to make excuses for staying asleep.

 

[Nawd]

Some people become really good gamers, some people can name off all of their selected sports team player's names, and some people obsess about learning to dream in the way they want to dream.

It's not related to the Work though.

IMO

 

[obyvatel]

Hi PerihelionX,
Though it does not deal with lucid dreaming in particular, this thread has some discussion on the various states of consciousness and their possible role in human development. It may be of some help in placing lucid dreaming in a wider context.

 

[tohuwabohu]

I may have learned something useful with this experimentation. In the induction exercise I can get to the point where I feel "fuzzy" and lose feeling in my limbs and body. The body seems to fall asleep while the mind is still awake. I find that staying in this state for a while seems to rejuvenate my body and stop inflammation. This is immediately useful to me, which is what matters. But if one watches the diet and treats their body right, there should be no need for that, right?

Just like anything else, dreams can be a distraction that you will use to make excuses for staying asleep.

Yes I can second this, there is exactly this state between being awake and being asleep that helps to rejuvenate body and according to Castaneda it also helps the energetic body to regain its undeformed (original) shape. So yes this is helpful. And I do not know what exactly happens during lucid dreaming so that is the question.