Intentions

[Mountain Crown]

Fwiw- I feel it is a mistake to force the concept of anticipation on the words intent or will.

One can act with or without anticipating, one's intent can be anticipatory or not.

 

[Al Today]

Fwiw- I feel it is a mistake to force the concept of anticipation on the words intent or will.

One can act with or without anticipating, one's intent can be anticipatory or not.

I wrote:

Intent can be in anticipation of reward of some kind.

I think usage of the word can in the above sentence does not "force" the concept of anticipation on to intention. The word can implies possibilities, I would think.

And Leo used the term implies

For me "intent" implies "getting something".

 

[Mountain Crown]

Hi again Al,

My last post was really aimed at Leo40.

For me "intent" implies "getting something".

Means:

For me "intent" entails (require as a necessary accompaniment or consequence) "getting something".

 

[Al Today]

Thanks for the clarification Count Morona. Maybe I should start a thread on reading comprehension? Had this problem as far back as I can remember. I miserably fail in poem interpretation.
:) :) :)

 

[Mountain Crown]

Maybe I should start a thread on reading comprehension? Had this problem as far back as I can remember.

You're not alone on this one AL, par for the course.

 

[dannybananny]

This "do something" no matter how senseless seems to have a
calming effect. "Well, I have done something"; it appears to be a mixture
of excuse and apology: "at least I have done something".

It reminds me when Joda said in Star Wars movie: "Do or not do", people do something so they can say they at least tried but it's no different then not doing because when someone is trying he has intention to fail but just want's to show he's doing something. So it is kind of excuse and lie that someone tells to self.

 

[Menna]

Intentions and aims both have anticipation or wants because that is what you intend or aim to do. You put thought into what you intend or aim. If there is thought involved then there is anticipation I believe.

 

[Psalehesost]

Intentions and aims both have anticipation or wants because that is what you intend or aim to do. You put thought into what you intend or aim. If there is thought involved then there is anticipation I believe.

Wrong - a thought is not the same as an anticipation. You can think of something without having an expectation, considering things in an Open way. Intent does not imply expecting something - nor does it imply want, as you can intend something without wanting it, with indifference; intent is like the direction of a computer program - an action may be scheduled, but this does not imply want, only direction, that it will be taken if possible. An Aim can be simply a reference point - "how does this option compare to my Aim?" - it is then like a point on a map; want or expectation could then arise in relation to it, as opposed to being a part of it.

When comparing an option with an Aim, one may think of possible outcomes of an action, and here anticipation could happen, or not; one could simply, without expectation, try to predict, using one's knowledge and understanding - making an estimation of what is probable. (this could however be seen as another kind of "anticipation" - same word, different meaning - in the way that "anticipation is the mother of preparation" according to the C's - if you know that something negative can occur, you can take steps to avoid it)

OSIT.

 

[Leo40]

The more this thread continues the more it becomes obvious that
every person has their own ideas about word meanings.
This demonstrates the difficulty in communicating and this is the
point I am making.
How can we possibly reach colinear thinking on this basis?
I think that only common experience can provide a solid basis
for successful communication. This leads to more questions:
is it our common intent or aim to discover our real self and to
see reality as it is?
What is the difference between colinear thinking and consensus?
To clearly see the situation we find ourselves in requires an observation
point outside the system.
These are some thoughts that I am pondering.
P.S. I would be very careful in using the word "wrong".

 

[Mountain Crown]

Intentions and aims both have anticipation or wants because that is what you intend or aim to do. You put thought into what you intend or aim. If there is thought involved then there is anticipation I believe.

Essentially the reasoning here is an attempt to define a larger set by the description of one of its subsets.

For example, it's true that a number divisible by two is always an integer, but it's not true therefore that an integer is always a number divisible by two.

There are anticipatory (subset) and non-anticipatory (subset) acts (larger set).

On another note:

An anticipatory intention presumes a desired outcome is the progenitor of an act.

 

[Mountain Crown]

The more this thread continues the more it becomes obvious that
every person has their own ideas about word meanings.
This demonstrates the difficulty in communicating and this is the
point I am making.

Hi Leo,

Good communication often involves clarification of terms used.

You've made this statement as a lead in to two posts now. After rereading this thread, I don't see how anyone is failing to communicate.

Could it be that a projection is involved? - Just asking.

Either way it has a manipulative flavor.

How can we possibly reach colinear thinking on this basis?
I think that only common experience can provide a solid basis
for successful communication. This leads to more questions:
is it our common intent or aim to discover our real self and to
see reality as it is?

It's my understanding that discovering our real selves isn't done without a rigorous investigation of what's false in us.

What is the difference between colinear thinking and consensus?

Seems to me that colinear thinking is a derivative of a consensus formed by a critical thinking process, not the reverse.

To clearly see the situation we find ourselves in requires an observation
point outside the system.

Clearly seeing the situation we're in is to stand outside the system. It's the goal, not the means.

 

[Menna]

I can only comment from my perspective - If I have intentions or an aim then I have a goal or I am working twards something. So if I can see or want an outcome then I have anticipation. The only time I don't have anticipation is if I go into something blindly and for me to go into something blidly that means I have no thought about what I am doing I am getting my self into something with no intentions or aims.

 

[Psalehesost]

P.S. I would be very careful in using the word "wrong".

It is counterproductive to use it when arguing opinions, but can be appropriate when dealing with issues of fact. In this case, it rests on this:

You can think of something without having an expectation, considering things in an Open way.

If this is true, and it is known to be, then the below is merely a stating of a fact:

Wrong - a thought is not the same as an anticipation.

But while I don't think the word wrong to be "wrong" in a technical sense in this case, the tone was influenced by a sense of minor frustration; in that sense, it was a failure.



With Menna's reply, I guess there's the chance to communicate my thoughts better:

I can only comment from my perspective - If I have intentions or an aim then I have a goal or I am working twards something.

This is true - though intent can be very immediate in goal, to the extent that the goal can be the intended action itself, without expectation of outcome.

So if I can see or want an outcome then I have anticipation.

Not necessarily - seeing an outcome can be done without expecting it (taking it as possible but not certain), hence without anticipating it. It would also be possible to want an outcome without expecting it.

To clarify the meaning of anticipation here (it has a positive sense not related to this, and a negative sense - basically, expectation), this Cassiopaea Glossary entry might help.

The only time I don't have anticipation is if I go into something blindly and for me to go into something blidly that means I have no thought about what I am doing I am getting my self into something with no intentions or aims.

How about considering possible outcomes without being sure of which will occur? When you take a chance not knowing (nor thinking you know) for sure what will happen, not expecting anything, then there is no anticipation - at the same time, there need not be blindness in approach, and the taking of the chance can be in accordance with an aim - and the taking of the chance itself can be one's intent.

I think that as the universe is Open, this can apply to a great many situations, even most of them, and to conscious choices and efforts.

I think that only common experience can provide a solid basis
for successful communication.

In general, the basic concepts - intent, aim, anticipation, etc. - are addressed in material used here - The Wave, the ideas of Gurdjieff, and so on. And then, when thinking actively and observing in oneself, I think that a co-linear view of these basic concepts more or less naturally follows - because common experience occurs.

 

[Menna]

YES...One might have a goal or aim and the intentions are to do everything one can to reach that goal or aim. Sort of like a bigger picture thing...But if you can see the bigger picture and want it don't you expect it and anticipate getting there. I know I do

 

[Psalehesost]

But if you can see the bigger picture and want it don't you expect it and anticipate getting there. I know I do

Not so much in my case - I've learned from experience that such things don't work as I expect them to, so there's no point expecting anything in particular.

There is a vague sense of what the long-term goal entails, but no specifics apart from that which is immediately in front of me - hence nothing concrete to be anticipating, except occasionally when part of my mind engages in silly imaginings for a short while.

The Universe or DCM keeps things flowing according to some natural process that is beyond our grasp to fully understand. I have faith that things go as they are objectively supposed to, however that might be, doing what I find myself... doing, simply - according to what understanding I presently have - as part of playing whatever role I might have - can't know.