Is anart OK?

[Laura]

Though it looks odd for the person like Anart to quit, we have seen before some one whom we value highly quit faced with some barriers which they thought big. That is why it is work. It always throws things at our face which we don't want to see. Answer lies in how we want to respond to the barrier. Willingness to learn and having the knowledge goes a long way in the process.

That's the bottom line: do you love truth enough to face it even if it means giving up your sacred cows and acknowledging your own emotion driven lies to the self? See the "splitting" thread for clues. Sometimes a person is too smart for their own good and make such great narratives to explain away their own emotion driven likes and dislikes that they can't get out of their own way. It's kind of like a form of the Dunning-Kruger effect: your computing organ dominates and convinces you that you are smarter than everyone else when, in fact, it is obvious to others that you are running on the wrong energy.

I too liked and benefited from anart's 'no BS' style responses, though there are occasions I felt she called shots prematurely, which allowed part of me to 'kick and scream' to respond back. This helped me to see that portion of me which normally escapes the attention. At the end 'All there is lessons'

Indeed, Anart was the forum's very own "petty tyrant" and we were lucky to have her in that role. Now it is incumbent upon everyone else to give accurate and direct feedback to one another with, perhaps, a tad more compassion and respect.

 

[Nienna]

as I (and apparently others) have learned a lot from reading her posts and from what little interaction we have had, I find her quite lovable.

Agreed, I immediately noticed some harshness in anart's posts but did not considered them as particularly offensive. I learned better to pay attention to what is being said rather than to how it is being said.

I noticed some harshness as well, but the message was spot-on, or so I thought. If someone like Anart can be led astray, what does that mean for us as newbies?

I think that this means that any of us can be led astray IF we do not constantly question what we do. But that is the case regardless of what has happened in this instance. Doing the Work is not about just saying we are doing the Work, we have to be actively Doing the Work. Self-observation and self-remembering, actually wanting to help others, not for our sake, but for theirs, seeking out our programs by watching how others react to what we do or say, and then working on these programs. This can be done here on the forum and in real life. We see ourselves much better when viewed by how others react to us.

I think that something to keep in mind is that while we think that we are doing the Work, we may just be dreaming we are doing the Work. So this is a good wake-up call for all of us to be more vigilant with ourselves and try to do the best we can to not be led astray.

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

Oh, well... I have an impression that existence on this planet is stressful no matter what you do. Environment is hostile.
But I respect the choice, individual circumstances are always different.

The choice was mutually agreeable. Her inability to modulate her reactive harshness was a constant source of friction in the background and the overall goals of the forum were not only not being well-served, it might even be said that the goals were being diverted and/or harmed. It's one thing to know the words, another to know the music and to be able to dance with the Universe.

'Nuff said.

I was really surprised and saddened by the news. How someone who did the work apparently so sincere, can go this way? But told by Laura and others is very clear that there are things that I could not see because I still have to work hard. And also because I was blinded by the projections on Anart.

In any case I think it must be something pretty hellish, from my point of view, live a departure like these, because were years have been making efforts, including having participated in sessions and still she could not get rid of those sacred cows and her personal importance.
That may be due to subconscious implants that the C's talk in the first sessions? perhaps its stress is on the rise because he feels the imminence of death or tragedy in this time of ending/beginning of the Great Cycle and she ends clinging more and more to their lies?. Well, I need to think more about this topic. Hope Anart can escape the matrix, if it is the desire of her heart.

I too liked and benefited from anart's 'no BS' style responses, though there are occasions I felt she called shots prematurely, which allowed part of me to 'kick and scream' to respond back. This helped me to see that portion of me which normally escapes the attention. At the end 'All there is lessons'

Indeed, Anart was the forum's very own "petty tyrant" and we were lucky to have her in that role. Now it is incumbent upon everyone else to give accurate and direct feedback to one another with, perhaps, a tad more compassion and respect.

Yes, I hope all is for the best.

 

[Deleted member 4737]

I can see some truth in these posts on the subject. Although I do not personally know anyone on this forum, I will admit that harshness in other posts (not only from Anart) has kept my posting here very rare. I have more work to do than most in this forum, and I just sit back and read what is being discussed rather than possibly having something mirrored back, or to be adding noise to the discussion with my ignorance.

That does not mean I have never found any of the 'harsh' posts insightful, however.

 

[RflctnOfU]

Though it looks odd for the person like Anart to quit, we have seen before some one whom we value highly quit faced with some barriers which they thought big. That is why it is work. It always throws things at our face which we don't want to see. Answer lies in how we want to respond to the barrier. Willingness to learn and having the knowledge goes a long way in the process.

That's the bottom line: do you love truth enough to face it even if it means giving up your sacred cows and acknowledging your own emotion driven lies to the self? See the "splitting" thread for clues. Sometimes a person is too smart for their own good and make such great narratives to explain away their own emotion driven likes and dislikes that they can't get out of their own way. It's kind of like a form of the Dunning-Kruger effect: your computing organ dominates and convinces you that you are smarter than everyone else when, in fact, it is obvious to others that you are running on the wrong energy.

I too liked and benefited from anart's 'no BS' style responses, though there are occasions I felt she called shots prematurely, which allowed part of me to 'kick and scream' to respond back. This helped me to see that portion of me which normally escapes the attention. At the end 'All there is lessons'

Indeed, Anart was the forum's very own "petty tyrant" and we were lucky to have her in that role. Now it is incumbent upon everyone else to give accurate and direct feedback to one another with, perhaps, a tad more compassion and respect.

The bolded part above stood out most to me. I had observed, not only in relation to myself, but other forum members as well, that anarts posts would, at times, instigate a defensive posture in those addressed. I think it boils down to: It isn't what you 'say' (or type), it is the manner of delivery/style. I found her points usually quite accurate, however they came across, at least to me, as somewhat self-righteous. I don't know if I am the only one to have recieved that impression, but it was somewhat consistent.

Regardless of the 'toe-stepping', sometimes most likely on purpose -- a little scratch anyone?? -- she will be missed, as she had some quite amazing insights over the years IMHO.

Be well anart. :)

Kris

 

[sitting]

Be well anart. :)

I wish to second that sentiment.

And I hope there's an ongoing network she can still rely on for support. This transition will not be easy I think. It will likely take all her strength and spirit (which she has) to see her to a safe and secure landing.

 

[mcb]

I can see some truth in these posts on the subject. Although I do not personally know anyone on this forum, I will admit that harshness in other posts (not only from Anart) has kept my posting here very rare. I have more work to do than most in this forum, and I just sit back and read what is being discussed rather than possibly having something mirrored back, or to be adding noise to the discussion with my ignorance.

That does not mean I have never found any of the 'harsh' posts insightful, however.

You certainly can take time and prepare before you dive in more deeply. You are guaranteed to eventually receive feedback that you were not expecting, if you are saying much at all. But remember that when you receive it, you are really just sitting in your room at the computer (or riding a bus, for all I know, but hopefully not driving a car at the time) and there is no real threat, and you can take as much time as you need to process the information.

You can also question the feedback you receive. One thing I have found interesting about the mirroring process is that when you actually request it, you can end up with a wide range of people of varying experience responding. Some people will provide very thoughtful responses, and some people may be downright rude, or inexperienced and just learning themselves. Each response has its own unique value, but not every response needs to be taken strictly at face value. It worked that way when anart was here, and it still works that way.

Watch out, though. Sometimes the response that you least believe can be the closest to the truth. :)

 

[H-KQGE]

I really wasn't going to post anything when this thread first started but seeing how quickly it's grown here's my take...
When i was still using internet cafés to try & keep up with the forum & sott (only stopped in may) two summers back, the thing that stood out other than the extraordinary information was anart's posts. Yes they stood out that much to me. Not having time to get to know anyone's writing style (other than Laura's) because of time & money issues i thought that i should just "give her a chance." But most of the posts from what i could see were at a minimum, harsh.
Some people just seemed to be slightly lost or just emotional over a personal issue of some sort, & the response was ferocious. I'm sticking to that word too. I would think why a response like that would come to people that appeared to be asking for guidance to those i'm assuming that they assumed was qualified to help.
Yes some are going to respond to this as projections on to her but we all have expectations of each other that rise when a person is in such a position. Some will see "moderator" & think consciously/unconsciously that they'll know more & be a certain way, considering the goals stated on the forum. Another or the same person might see "supermoderator" & the expectations shoot up especially if some posts are of a particular flavour or give so much useful data. Mods, admins, members it doesn't matter, we all have these things floating about within us.

But i have my own issues with people that project in the way she did which is what i was thinking of when first reading her posts & i don't mind directness (within reason) or being curt, strict or blunt. (just not all the time) My upbringing was full of it & i constantly modified my behaviour so as not to hurt others claiming so. So i was acutely aware of this type of thing so coming across it here made me think that a fair amount of people could turn away from the forum & possibly worse, sott.
That bothered me a lot, as well as my usual self doubt that seemed to grow reading her posts & trying to gauge where she was coming from. Don't get me wrong. Some posts were spot on & the comments on this thread proved her help but how many people have been put off joining or posting? I know i wasn't looking forward to an "anart treatment" for sure, but as far as i'm concerned all ways are valid, you just have to adjust your method to the person.

I was actually wondering if i would get a response to 1 of my posts since i started, & how i would be able to regulate myself to my perception of her forum persona. Then this thread started which was a shock.
This is not to be negative here just my observations on how i felt for others posting in response to her at those times & my own feelings.
I think it is quite tricky to properly express your thoughts this way, i know it is for me as i have loads of things i want to express but they almost never come out how i want, the "in person" factor is something i bare in mind when reading posts.

So for anart i never got a chance to converse with you but still : i hope you have clarity of mind & continue to stay clear. I hope you will grow your ability to make discernments about others, yourself & the world around you. I hope your knowledge & awareness continues to grow along with your faith in the universe that all is as it should be. I hope you turn potential negatives into positives. I hope that you will continue to give thanks to the Service To Others pathway that brought you to us. I hope that you will not act against others, but in favour of your own destiny. Thank you. :)

 

[aragorn]

Learning that anart had decided to leave this group was at first quite a shock. I had feelings of sadness, anger, frustration and disappointment. But, gradually, I came to see how her departure - and also with everyone now 'processing' the shock - is probably for the best, and even a requirement for the further development of this group.

Anart has a gift to quickly dissect other people's posts, and point out the problems (often due to ones emotional thinking). In her ruthless way of delivering her feedback, I can see her acting almost like a petty tyrant - one who acts like an important opponent, a "sparring companion" who gives necessary blows for you to be observant, vigilant and keep you awake. To me, it now seems like this phase, with anart being one of the main players giving feedback, was an important and necessary one, but now the training period is over and we all need to take more responsibility.

For example, when I saw a new post on the forum - perhaps by a newbie - with issues that seemed a bit complicated, I often thought "Well, why bother answering? Anart will take care of that, and probably do it a lot better than I ever could". This thinking of mine now appears to me like some sort of passive aggressive behavior, avoiding responsibility. It's easy to say how "the fear of anart" made us not want to post, but I think that it could be useful to analyze how this non-posting could also be a form of laziness and avoiding responsibility as I described above.

And, as I now have come to realize, there ARE better ways to deliver a mirror or give feedback than anart's model. At least I had become in some way desensitized, thinking that anart's model of giving feedback was the "Gurdjieffian way", the way of a person high up on the 4th way ladder. Now I've started to think otherwise.

So, thank you anart for the many useful "sparring matches". Since I never met you in real life, and have little knowledge of your true character, I can't say for sure why you left. Perhaps the expectations by others and by yourself of being "perfect" was just too much. But my thinking is, that everything comes at some point to an end, or to a crossroad where you have to choose. So, in this crossroad our paths will diverge. I wish you the best on your chosen path! :)

 

[Menna]

It's one thing to know the words, another to know the music and to be able to dance with the Universe

- Laura

Very true I have been thinking about this lately as I have taken my own break from the forum. “The Works” objectivity is different than the objectivity of the current paradigm (life/Society) that we are currently in. A person who has done “The Work” for a number of years will see the horror of the situation and have to practice and use strategic enclosure as well as other "work" related assets. It is very interesting that "The Work" has strategic enclosure has a premeditated strategy to help people who have entered “The Work” continue working on themselves and at the same time allow them to live efficiently in this paradigm (life/society) this shows that there is separation but isn't the goal to be one with yourself and life/The Universe? This means you have to know both sides of the separation as well as knowing the separation itself. It’s like the being that set up "The Work" realized that objectivity and other humans/life/society objectivity don't mix. That people in "The Work" are a different breed and will continue to find “The Work” objectivity but this causes friction with the current paradigm (life) so this being had to implement a strategy so that the people continuing along in “The Work" can progress and still function in society. The quote from laura couldn't be closer to the truth. "Its one thing to know the words (The work) to know the Music (People/Current Paradigm/Life/Society) and to be able to dance with the Universe" (To balance "The Work" interactions with people and Current Paradigm/life and to see what interaction are best for the individual and individual situation.)

I must say that since I have been on this forum for me personally anarts truthful style of posting helped me along in the work and to see life more objectively her replies resonated with me and made me change the way I think. I believe its important to remember that one person can have one truth based on information and their experiences and another can have a separate truth because they had different expeirences. These are their personal truths. I believe anart always used her personal truth about what she thought and was honest with the intent of being helpful and I believe her honesty with the helpful intent made it possible for her replies to be objectively helpful. It is also important to consider that the truthful "harsh" style of posting can push people away or make them revert back to old habits like if you yell at an alcoholic and call them a no good drunk this might be true but this will most likely cause the self pity emotion tocome up and they will turn to the drink because it scares them to see the truth to see who and what they are and at the time they don’t have the personal strength to go through the emotionally draining, which turns into physically draining process of seeing themselves and then working on themselves as I said in the last paragraph the truth doesn’t always mix with our current paradigm.

In closing I can only speak from my experience but over the last 4 years anart has had a positive impact on my life and I want to thank her for taking the time to reply to my "first world problems" and questions with the intent of making me a better person. Anart also had an abundance of empathy and that also showed in her interactions on the forum. Her style of posting I know to be helpful for a certain type of person but it doesn't do much if you help 2 people with truth but push away 4 others. This is where I believe the dance with the universe comes in. Its all well and good to be proficient in "The Work" but if you are proficient in something that doesn’t fit in the current paradigm/life/society then how can you help people that are very much apart of the current paradigm and don't see another side without pushing them away without scaring them????? This is the toughest dance to learn and I believe it is important to know the work well but also know life/society/people well contemplate interactions and experiences and work on your dance moves so that you don’t step on the universes toes. The Universe is balance and I have tried to integrate that saying into aspects of my life and so far it has helped.

 

[sebbe]

If it can help.

I loved Anart for his cleaver, guillotine.
Because, evidently, there are reflections, echoes and tendancies in me.
Untouchable and sacred cow come in my mind. So thank you, member's forum, for this lesson.

 

[Miss.K]

Before I started my limited interaction here 2 years ago I was a lurker for many years (since casschat times) and for years I disliked anart and found her/her style most everything the ones who don´t like her/her style have described in this thread.
I did though, think I had to work/learn more in order to be able to know if I could trust my own impression.

At some point, I think about 3 years ago, my view on the Lady changed, and I saw compassion, willingness to help, kindness, humor, and a big heart behind the sometimes harsh appearance.
-also I saw her as a pretty great petty tyrant, and I agree with Laura that this forum have been lucky to have her.

I do think that sometimes she, like many other smart people, though often spot on, sometimes make too fast conclusions based on limited information about a person/subject, and possibly think that they can´t be wrong, as they are usually right...but that goes for many smart people here, and everywhere else, who have to make fast conclusions based on limited information, and if everybody did like me who always doubt if I´m really right about the fast conclusions I make based on limited information, and take some more years to think about it and see if my view changes, before I think it proper to say anymore on the subject, there would be very limited interaction on the forum....

fwiw to me this news feel like the departure of a very good friend, and I shall miss her much.

Thank you anart for all the insights, caring, and hard work, all the best for you in the future

 

[Nević Nenad]

I never had any fear of confrontation with Anart, in fact I had them a few. It was like:

1.Post
2.Fight with Anart (note to myself: use larger caliber this time, aim better)
3.Fight
4.Whitdraw! Whitdraw! . . . oh, well, maybe I will have more luck next time . . .


The anger was employed during that fights, of course. Especially because she did that from the point of authority. That was really unnerving for me.
But, the anger lasted really only during that confrontation, I didn’t had any bad feeling for her after that, and I don’t have any bad feeling for her especially now. She did over exaggerate her role, but also made me thinking. Not thinking in the style: “she is elder, she is right”, because I give credit for being instantaneously right to no one, but more like: “ well, maybe she is right, maybe I didn’t do that right, perhaps there is a better way to think about that”. That line of thinking thought me also not to be rude with the people, because you never know in what pain and struggle is the person on the other side and how that affects on his/hers reactions and relations, and there is always a time to be rude and harsh if there would be a need.


But that’s just for me, possibly because I have no problem to go against authority. Someone else could get something completely different of all of that.I understand that could be a problem with newbie on the forum. Anyway, I hope that Anart is in good health and OK in her everyday life now.

 

[Laura]

I think I'm going to close this thread since there has been enough discussion about Anart. The mods will split off the posts discussing mirrors and create a new thread where that discussion can continue.

 

[davey72]

Curious about Anart

I have been wondering about Anart for awhile now. Perhaps it is not my place, but this is a network afterall. I haven't seen anything from her in the usual circles, and hope she is ok.