Is drinking coffee okay while fasting.

[Fluffy]

I'm about to embark on another fast, no determined days set, I'll go for as long as I do.

I drink coffee, and I really like it. I don't want to quit while I fast. Or may be at all ever.

I wanted to find some info that comforted this idea that drinking coffee while fasting is okay and I stumbeld across this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4111762/#!po=7.89474

Large epidemiological studies involving large cohorts of individuals have demonstrated that coffee consumption is inversely associated with total and cause-specific mortality, both in males and in females. The consumption of coffee is associated with a reduction of cancer, heart disease, respiratory disease, stroke, diabetes, and infections (both in males and females).1-3 These effects are dose-dependent (with a plateau of 6 cups per day) and do not depend on caffeine content, because both decaffeinated and caffeinated coffee were similarly associated with improved health.4,5 Independent surveys revealed that coffee consumption might have protective effects, among many, on highly penetrant tumors such as endometrial,6,7 mammary8 hepatocellular,9 colorectal,10 and prostatic cancer.11 Although such studies cannot differentiate between causal and associational findings, they do suggest that chronic coffee consumption might have broad health-improving effects.

One of the general cell biological phenomena that has been attributed a global health-promoting and anti-aging property is autophagy,12-14 a lysosomal degradation pathway responsible for the selective renewal of cytoplasmic organelles.15,16 In macroautophagy (here referred to as “autophagy”), portions of the cytoplasm are sequestered in 2-membraned vesicles, the autophagosomes, which later fuse with lysosomes for the degradation of the luminal content by lysosomal hydrolases. Since autophagy preferentially targets damaged macromolecules (such as unfolded and aggregated proteins) and organelles (such as dysfunctional mitochondria),17 it contributes to ridding the cytoplasm of aged structures and hence potentially “rejuvenates” non-nuclear portions of the cell.18,19 Autophagy has also been suggested to participate in hormesis,20 which consists in the adaptation of cells to low levels of stress, rendering them resistant to otherwise lethal effects of intense stress.

Drinking black organic coffee in combination with coffee enema could be some kind of magic on a fast. May be drink decaf and save the caffeinated for the enema. May be some ACV after drinking coffee to help with tummy acid?? I won't stop taking vitamins and minerals either, when I'm ready for a really long fast of 30 or so days I will stop everything- even smokes :O no where near ready for that in the foreseeable future though.

What do others here think? I'd really like some feedback.
Thanks in advance

 

[obyvatel]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

How long do you intend to fast? And are you looking for any specific benefits from fasting?

I had read Dr Thomas Seyfried's book "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease" some time back. According to his research, the state of ketosis can result from fasting. To reach the state of ketosis, blood glucose levels should go down sufficiently and blood ketone levels should rise. He reported that of a group of students working with him who undertook a fast, one who drank coffee rather than decaffeinated tea and water did not experience the same degree of drop of blood glucose level that others experienced. So Dr Seyfried advised people who were fasting to get into ketosis to avoid coffee.

If you are looking to fast to enter the metabolic state of ketosis, you can check your blood glucose level with a glucose meter if it is feasible for you to access one. Then do a fast with coffee and without coffee and compare the blood glucose levels. If ketosis is not your target then formulate your aim regarding fasting and check whether coffee helps or hinders you in reaching that. I am not a coffee drinker in either fasting or normal state - but I can imagine that coffee might help keep one going during a fast if it elevates blood glucose levels.

fwiw

 

[Keyhole]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

How long do you intend to fast? And are you looking for any specific benefits from fasting?

I had read Dr Thomas Seyfried's book "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease" some time back. According to his research, the state of ketosis can result from fasting. To reach the state of ketosis, blood glucose levels should go down sufficiently and blood ketone levels should rise. He reported that of a group of students working with him who undertook a fast, one who drank coffee rather than decaffeinated tea and water did not experience the same degree of drop of blood glucose level that others experienced. So Dr Seyfried advised people who were fasting to get into ketosis to avoid coffee.

If you are looking to fast to enter the metabolic state of ketosis, you can check your blood glucose level with a glucose meter if it is feasible for you to access one. Then do a fast with coffee and without coffee and compare the blood glucose levels. If ketosis is not your target then formulate your aim regarding fasting and check whether coffee helps or hinders you in reaching that. I am not a coffee drinker in either fasting or normal state - but I can imagine that coffee might help keep one going during a fast if it elevates blood glucose levels.

fwiw

Coffee increases oxidation of substrate to a much higher degree than normal which means that more substrate is required.. It is essentially a surrogate for thyroid hormone. The above observation noted about the blood glucose fits in well with this. When there are not adequate resources (glycogen stores etc) to meet this increased metabolic requirement, the backup system operates via the HPA axis to release cortisol/adrenaline which catabolize muscle/adipose/cell membrane tissues to provide the extra energy. Hence, blood glucose is maintained.

However, I don't see this as good thing at all. The stress system is a backup system only, and is not a great way to meet energy requirements because it inevitably involves the destruction of useful tissues, including organs.

During the fasted state, the metabolic rate should ideally be lowered. With this considered, I don't see that coffee is a viable addition to any fasted state due to this effect. If someone is going drink coffee, ideally it should be along with adequate fat/glucose to meet the metabolic demand that comes with the caffeine.

This is just my understanding of it however, and could be wrong.

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

How long do you intend to fast? And are you looking for any specific benefits from fasting?

I had read Dr Thomas Seyfried's book "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease" some time back. According to his research, the state of ketosis can result from fasting. To reach the state of ketosis, blood glucose levels should go down sufficiently and blood ketone levels should rise. He reported that of a group of students working with him who undertook a fast, one who drank coffee rather than decaffeinated tea and water did not experience the same degree of drop of blood glucose level that others experienced. So Dr Seyfried advised people who were fasting to get into ketosis to avoid coffee.

If you are looking to fast to enter the metabolic state of ketosis, you can check your blood glucose level with a glucose meter if it is feasible for you to access one. Then do a fast with coffee and without coffee and compare the blood glucose levels. If ketosis is not your target then formulate your aim regarding fasting and check whether coffee helps or hinders you in reaching that. I am not a coffee drinker in either fasting or normal state - but I can imagine that coffee might help keep one going during a fast if it elevates blood glucose levels.

fwiw

I'm a faster from way back in my early 20's, I'm 37 now. I usually do 4 or 5 days fasting every few months and daily intermittent fasting. Apart from some carbohiloc episodes and random emotional binges I'd say I'm more often than not in some kind of light ketosis. I don't tolerate fat very well for long periods so I do purposely break my normal eating habits and ramp up the protein and carbs because I start looking like Sarah Connor from terminator 2... not very feminine. Having said that it's not about looks though, I usually feel best when I'm ultra skinny.

I can still exercise as normal while fasting, I'm never hungry anyway apart from emotional hunger, which is one reason why I like to fast, it's alleviating on the emotions. Other reasons are to give digestive system a rest, reset from carb binges, reduce inflammation from sore and somemetes arthritic joints. Autophagy is my main interest as far as fasting goes and that's why one day I'd like to do a long fast of a month or more. Apparently drinking coffee assists in autophagy according to the above information I've posted.

Drinking (black) coffee isn't good for type 2 diabetics from what I've read and will spike blood sugar in non diabetics but also be protective against developing it at a positive correlation to the amount consumed. I haven't been too concerned about my blood sugar or being in ketosis, I definitely go into deep ketosis when I fast, I can feel the switch from glucose metabolism, I have more energy and could go for days on nothing but my body fat which I don't have much of.
I might be worth investigating blood sugar now that you have me interested.! I did begin to develop gestational diabetes in my last pregnancy but I was also a vegetarian at that point who was frightened of fat. I'm hoping one day my body will become more tolerant of fat so I don't have to do this carb cycle.


Was the study done using caffeinated coffee?? I've fasted without it in the past as I've only stared drinking in it the past few years. I'll do some experimenting, I know for sure coffee keeps me able fast longer.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

Although I'm not a rat ...

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/255715198_fig8_Figure-3-Caffeine-increases-autophagic-flux-A-Quantification-and-representative-image

Our group assessed the effects of decaffeinated coffee on rats fed HFD and showed that coffee intake reduces liver injury not only by decreasing oxidative stress, as shown by reduced isoprostanes and 8-deoxyguanosine, but also by modulating the expression of cell chaperones such as glucose-regulated protein (GRP-78), which is involved in correct protein folding, and protein deglycase (DJ-1), which regulates autophagy [11]. In an elegant study, using genetic, pharmacological, and metabolomic approaches, Sinha et al. [10] showed that caffeine is a potent stimulator of hepatic autophagic flux; caffeine-induced autophagy involves the down-regulation of mammalian target of rapamycin signaling and alterations in hepatic amino acids and sphingolipid levels. In mice fed a HFD, caffeine markedly reduced hepatosteatosis and concomitantly increased autophagy and lipid uptake in lysosomes.

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

How long do you intend to fast? And are you looking for any specific benefits from fasting?

I had read Dr Thomas Seyfried's book "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease" some time back. According to his research, the state of ketosis can result from fasting. To reach the state of ketosis, blood glucose levels should go down sufficiently and blood ketone levels should rise. He reported that of a group of students working with him who undertook a fast, one who drank coffee rather than decaffeinated tea and water did not experience the same degree of drop of blood glucose level that others experienced. So Dr Seyfried advised people who were fasting to get into ketosis to avoid coffee.

If you are looking to fast to enter the metabolic state of ketosis, you can check your blood glucose level with a glucose meter if it is feasible for you to access one. Then do a fast with coffee and without coffee and compare the blood glucose levels. If ketosis is not your target then formulate your aim regarding fasting and check whether coffee helps or hinders you in reaching that. I am not a coffee drinker in either fasting or normal state - but I can imagine that coffee might help keep one going during a fast if it elevates blood glucose levels.

fwiw

Coffee increases oxidation of substrate to a much higher degree than normal which means that more substrate is required.. It is essentially a surrogate for thyroid hormone. The above observation noted about the blood glucose fits in well with this. When there are not adequate resources (glycogen stores etc) to meet this increased metabolic requirement, the backup system operates via the HPA axis to release cortisol/adrenaline which catabolize muscle/adipose/cell membrane tissues to provide the extra energy. Hence, blood glucose is maintained.

However, I don't see this as good thing at all. The stress system is a backup system only, and is not a great way to meet energy requirements because it inevitably involves the destruction of useful tissues, including organs.


During the fasted state, the metabolic rate should ideally be lowered. With this considered, I don't see that coffee is a viable addition to any fasted state due to this effect. If someone is going drink coffee, ideally it should be along with adequate fat/glucose to meet the metabolic demand that comes with the caffeine.

This is just my understanding of it however, and could be wrong.

I really don't know much about it that's why I'm asking the questions.
What if it's decaf coffee?

 

[Alana]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

During the fasted state, the metabolic rate should ideally be lowered. With this considered, I don't see that coffee is a viable addition to any fasted state due to this effect. If someone is going drink coffee, ideally it should be along with adequate fat/glucose to meet the metabolic demand that comes with the caffeine.

Not to support coffee drinking while fasting, because I really haven't researched the subject, but I am curious, based on what you say above Keyhole, whether having a cup of coffee with some fat in it (butter, coconut oil, etc) will make a difference?

I personally can't drink coffee often, it bothers my stomach and gives me way more energy than I can handle :D but when I do drink it once in a while, I make sure I had a very fatty breakfast just before, so that it doesn't bother me as much. And if I am going to have it, it is usually strong with only a little bit of honey in it. So it seems that some fat consumption beforehand does make a difference, but I never experimented with coffee while fasting.

 

[Anthony]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

I'm about to embark on another fast, no determined days set, I'll go for as long as I do.

I drink coffee, and I really like it. I don't want to quit while I fast. Or may be at all ever.

I wanted to find some info that comforted this idea that drinking coffee while fasting is okay and I stumbeld across this.

You might also try a different approach; looking for info that disproves that idea, so as to counteract our tendecy towards conformaton bias.

Personally, if I do a fast, I don't do anything besides water and water with some quality salt.

 

[biala84]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.


No worries here on this forum we can find answerr for all the answer which human beings can ask.. I had same problem like You with coffee. Now i drink from time to time cofffe which i buy on Lidl biological coffe. You have to take destilated water. For one glass You need to take two spoon. Then boil it. I still don't know about the time, i mean how long is should boil it in real to have benefits. From this what i read is ten minutes, but maybe i'm wrong. I'm boiling ten minutes round about. Leave for a while. Then drink it. If you preapre it in another way then the caffein kills :/ slowly..

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

I'm about to embark on another fast, no determined days set, I'll go for as long as I do.

I drink coffee, and I really like it. I don't want to quit while I fast. Or may be at all ever.

I wanted to find some info that comforted this idea that drinking coffee while fasting is okay and I stumbeld across this.

You might also try a different approach; looking for info that disproves that idea, so as to counteract our tendecy towards conformaton bias.

Personally, if I do a fast, I don't do anything besides water and water with some quality salt.

Yeah that's why I wrote 'comfort'.

From any previous reading or research I've done coffee is a no no on any kind of detox diet. So I am flipping the coin to see whether that can be refuted.

Even salt on a water fast is considered a no, depending on what you want to achieve of course. In a long fast it's definitely not recommended, distilled water only, which is mineral free, so the body can uses its stores without competition, and reap full benefits of autophagy.

 

[Carl]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

What is your main goal from fasting?

You will find arguments from both sides. Generally caffeine is not approved for fasting for detox purposes, although for weight loss it may help.

Specifically I listened to a podcast a while ago where this Rhonda Patrick said that coffee or caffeine actually interrupts a fast. Some discussion of the claim here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/intermittentfasting/comments/5ozvdd/dr_rhonda_patrick_says_that_coffee_hinders_fasting/

https://www.reddit.com/r/fasting/comments/5p30yj/dr_rhonda_patrick_said_drinking_coffee_yes_black/


It helps because it gives you energy and suppresses appetite. FWIW If I'm ever doing intermittent fasting I generally have caffeine in moderation, and it definitely seems to help in the short term at least, but I am not exactly the pinnacle of human health either.

 

[nature]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting? Interesting question! If coffee helps by lessening appetit, how can it hinder detox? Anyone knows about the mecanism on detox? Thanks.

 

[Keyhole]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

Not to support coffee drinking while fasting, because I really haven't researched the subject, but I am curious, based on what you say above Keyhole, whether having a cup of coffee with some fat in it (butter, coconut oil, etc) will make a difference?

It is possible. There is research that coffee increases fat oxidation by a large degree, so perhaps by adding fat you are able to use that in fueling the increased metabolic rate. Ideally, you don't want there to be a release of stress hormones. I personally have a tablespoon or two of honey, with about a tablespoon of coconut oil in my coffee every morning.

Interestingly enough, before I used honey I always used to experience a stress response. I was under the impression that I was one of those people who could just "not tolerate" coffee. However, when I started adding honey, or drinking the coffee after a carbohydrate sufficient meal... this stress response disappeared :D

I personally can't drink coffee often, it bothers my stomach and gives me way more energy than I can handle :D but when I do drink it once in a while, I make sure I had a very fatty breakfast just before, so that it doesn't bother me as much. And if I am going to have it, it is usually strong with only a little bit of honey in it. So it seems that some fat consumption beforehand does make a difference, but I never experimented with coffee while fasting.

That is interesting. There is a possibility that you may have some kind of CYP SNPolymorphism which prevents you from being able to metabolism the caffeine, although I am not sure I necessarily agree with the concept behind that whole genetics idea.

What is probably more likely is that the liver function may be poor, hence it is not able to stored adequate glycogen resources. So in response to this powerful metabolic stimulator, when the liver cannot provide enough glycogen for whatever reason, there is a release of adaptive stress hormones - hence the feeling of too much energy and poor digestive tolerance. Its a possibility, and is common amongst many of the people who can't do coffee.

 

[PerfectCircle]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

I once hear from a doctor that coffee can have different effects on different individuals.
For example, when drinking coffee in the morning on empty stomach, one can get diarrhea and the other not, especially when combined with milk.
Coffee has laxative effect, but the effect diminishes during a day, so it does not mean one will go to the toilet after each cup.

If you sweat much, you shouldn't drink many, 1-2 cups per day should be enough.
Since I do, I usually do not consume it in summer.

 

[Nico]

Re: Is drinking coffee good for us while fasting.

When I was fasting and drinking coffee, I really felt the acidity of it, and don't benefit much, but I'm not a heavy coffee drinker so my neurotransmitters may have not been too much in a habit of drinking coffee like your case Fluffy.

Morevover if you aim at a pure fast, you might want to avoid anything which trigger the liver. Coffee and tea needs enzymes to be metabolize.

This might be a good idea to test your will, but you have to listen carefully to your body if it's really what it's appropriate, I know people who regain wheight after fasting (8 days) while their goal were losing wheight.