Is there something called Russian Wedas?

Keit said:
Sure, SU soldiers' cause was just, as they were liberating their Motherland. But it is an example that War causes deep deformations of the psyche, doesn't matter if the cause is just, or the soldier is part of the aggressor army. For example, my grandfather refused to talk about what he saw during the war. And he was there in Brest on 22nd of June 1941 when Germany attacked, and when the war ended in Berlin on 8th of May 1945. He was a communist, but communists weren't able to completely eradicate people's belief in the "divine". But apparently after the war my grandfather told my grandmother that "there is no God". That if there was God, he wouldn't allow for something like this to happen.

In general, I think it is important to remember that there are several layers to any conflict.

During WW I, my grandfather was in France in the US Army Corps of Engineers at the St. Mihiel Offensive followed by the Battle of Verdun, then the Battle of the Meuse which ran right up to the surrender on the 11th of November. He suffered all his life from his experiences there.

So yeah, war is truly hell and until people begin to realize that they are just cannon fodder for the ambitions of pathological types - exactly as Lobaczewski describes - there will continue to be these sorts of "sensitive spots" in people's psyches.

For example, "Razorblade" has written to the mods:
Hello Admin. As I got attacked by several people in the forum for having said, I don't trust esoteric stuff coming from Russian sources, I wanted to delete my account. Unfortunately I couldn't do so. So would you please delete my account. I'm not willing to spend my time with this kind of people. Thank you. All the best.

Now, I don't see in this thread that ANYONE was "attacked". What did happen was an effort to show different perspectives after he made a rather broad and sweeping statement about Russia/Russians. One might think that Mr. "Razorblade" was a delicate, liberal snowflake. If that is the case, he is definitely in the :wrongbar: and it is just as well that he figured it out. No one can do the work if they cannot observe themselves without pity or bias.

As the Cs say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. But if you do, you miss the aromas and the meal.
 
Oh boy…and he started so well! But if he cannot be trusted to objectively assess his own background and history of his own country, how can he be trusted to assess any other piece of information without emotional bias?

And since this thread is public, Razorblade may still in fact read through the replies. I would therefore like to point out a couple more inconsistencies in his line of reasoning. This is for his own benefit, in case his emotional outburst was just a cognitive dissonance and it will in fact lead to further research on Razorblade's part, thus helping him improve his objective assessment skills.

I myself pulled a bit of an emotionally charged tantrum in one of the forum threads when I was on a comparable number of posts to Razorblade and it taught me a LOT. Mostly about myself :)

Well, the fact that I didn't run to Mods shouting "attack" and questioning the work of the "leader and the crowd" just because of one point someone disagreed with me on might have made a tad of a difference to my future on the forum though.


Razorblade said:
(...) As a German (about 5 Million soldiers of my countrymen got killed by Russians and most of our grandmothers raped by them) I think one can't be cautious enough with any information given by Russian sources (just like with US "New Age" stuff!) especially when they claim to be "friends of the Germans" now which they do a lot in German alternative media and among German New Agers. (...)

Razorblade said:
Suworow, a Russian historian wrote e.g. here, that if Hitler hadn't attacked surprisingly in that very moment, Stalin would have invaded Europe a few days later. He was ready to go. All his military was designed for attack, not for defense!

Starikov, another Russian historian says that Hitler was a British agent and all they wanted from him was to attack the Soviet Union to finally destroy both.

Wait up...I thought you didn't trust Russian historians? And yet you chose to believe their "evidence" that Stalin was getting ready to start a war, despite it being rather weak, as Bjorn and Keit pointed out to you.

If Stalin was ready to start a war, he would have been pretty well prepared to defend himself too. This is a reasonable conclusion to come to: you yourself bolded the part that said the Russian army was designed for attack just days before the beginning of the war. Therefore they surely would have been also prepared for defense. Yet 27 million Soviets died during the war, as opposed to 5 million German military losses.

:huh:

Your choice to avoid seeing the obvious lack of logic behind it seems to be a buffer that makes you feel better about your country's history. More info on buffers can be found here: https://thecasswiki.net/index.php?title=Buffer_(Fourth_Way)


Also, I really didn't get this entire point. Was it meant to prove that the Nazi Germany was merely defending itself? Or are you trying to say that it was OK for the Nazi army to start the war because someone else would have done it anyway?


Razorblade said:
But well... to be honest: The crowd and its leader here seem to be quite biased: USA = bad. Russia = Good.

Dream on, Putinistas! I'm out of here!

The facts gathered by the leader and the crowd are consistently showing that in the recent times the "USA = bad. Russia = Good" assessment has been largely correct. The leader and the crowd analyse facts on ongoing basis and in their quest for objectivity work tirelessly to ensure their cultural bias and personal feelings do not cloud their thinking. Unlike yourself, as you proved above.

Razorblade said:
Wow... interesting how it turns out here... now I'm put in the Nazi corner here? :D

No one here put you in the Nazi corner in any way. It was merely pointed out to you that your assessment of events that took place 70 years ago was incorrect, biased and subjective. Anyone else who said something like this, regardless of their nationality, would have received the same response that was given to you.

I like to think you'd agree that Germany of 1940s was an entirely different country to modern day Germany. Why wouldn't the same apply to Russia?
 
My grandfather fought in the resistance, saw all kind of horrors. (also lost people)

He forgave the Germans, since it was the only way forward. He taught his children to not hate Germany, because he knows what a cycle of hatred will lead into.

If he is able to forgive, than people who didn't experienced the war, should also be capable to move on.

Besides if you are seeking for someone to hate. Start with the psychopaths who are at the root of those tragedies. They are not bound by nationalities. Truth is that most people died in wars because of the greed of psychopaths.

If people remain in a cycle of hatred because they don't have the strength to forgive or move in and see the bigger picture, hundreds of millions will continue to die in their wars.

Besides, Hate and rightfull anger are 2 different things if you ask me. If anger becomes so poisonous that you can't think clearly anymore like demonstrated by razorblade. It really makes me wonder what's really up.
 
Laura said:
Don't dismiss it too fast. That's among the things I'm currently exploring by way of Zoroaster.

Also, in SHOTW, I do discuss Siberian shamanism as compared to later corruptions of same.

Laura, I'm afraid I might open up a can of worms with what follows, but I'll just post it anyway. This thread gives me the oppurtunity to post something I though about the last couple of weeks to post here. I wasn't sure where to post it, but since this thread was posted, it sort of gives the oppurtunity to do so.

It is about some of the contents that were published in the book:
Entering the Circle: Ancient Secrets of Siberian Wisdom Discovered by a Russian Psychiatrist by Olga Kharitidi,
in where Zoroastrianism, Gurdjieff, Sufisms etc. are mentioned, together with russian scientists that worked on those themes in quite interesting ways, a great catastrophe that destroyed a very ancient and advanced culture situated in the Altai region (Sebiria) and that the seeds of all other cultures that followed came from there, around the world.

While reading that account, I was also reminded of what I recently read about Gurdjieffs travels and I figured that he most likely also travelled through that region in Altai, since he mentioned to have travelled to the Gobi Desert, which is at the outskirts of Altai. So after I read the excerpts that will soon follow, I looked up the Altai region in general and more specifically the Altai mountain region. To my suprise, I discovered that the Altai Mountains cover actually a huge area with mountains up to 4506 meters in hight! The mountain area alone covers about 845.000 square kilometers, which is about twice the size of sweden.

Anyway, in the book also a certain mystical place called "Belovodia" is mentioned, that either existed there very far back and/or remains of it are still in the region and/or around the world in different forms. Apparently the "Belovodia", or also called "Belovodye", legend is quite known in that area. So this "Belovodia", it seems to me, could be a synonym that was passed down from ancient times about this civilisation.

Back to the book. I'll expand a bit, since the information could proof to be important for further research.

Apparently the first edition of the english book was published in 1995. The book could be complete fiction of course, although Olga says in the beginning, that it happened as stated. Leaving that question aside, some of the content is so interesting, that it deserves further probing I think. Having said that, I wouldn't say it is a must read at all, just that certain paragraphs, expecially towards the end, are darn interesting. It is more like a novel, describing a personal story that is remotely comparable to Castaneda (although with much less actual teachings).

The content of book apparently happened before the collapse of Soviet Union. Olga Kharitidi was born on 1. January 1960 (so is 57 now).

She writes in the beginning:

Entering the Circle said:
With minor exceptions, all of the events in the book took place as described. I made only a few changes to protect the privacy of family and friends.

In the exerpt that follows a certain "Mr. Dmitriev" (later called in the book "Ivan Petrovich") is mentioned, who was a physicist from the academic city of "Akademgorodok" in the field of quantum physics. According to the book, he was "Chief of the Physics Laboratory" there. His laboratory was involved in studying the phenomena of reality. His work was a sort of long term study of reality.

In Akademgorodok the best scientists from russia were (and are still) studying, with the best resources and equipment. A guy called "Sergey" in the book, was a colleague/assistant of Mr. Dmitriev. One tool of his laboratory were round mirrors, as one of the means of opening up channels to the alternate states of awarness. Visiting the Institution where he worked, required special permissions. He worked in a white nine-floor building. His Laboratory was on the seventh floor. He was a middle aged man back then. Dmitriev mentions shortly a certain astrophysicist called Kosirov (earlier in the book on page 156). I guess Nikolai Aleksandrovich Kozyrev is meant. From the sequence of the book, I guess Dimitriev told Olga about him, because the devise he later presents to her, to go into, is a construction based on the Kozyrev mirror.

The devise Dimitriev used and where he and Olga sat in, was:

Entering the Circle: Page 157 said:
"a tube made from a special combination of polished metals that act like a mirror. We have learned that this is one of the ways in which we can alter an individual's perception of time. In ways we do not understand, the mirrors work to transform time and space for the person inside them."

Since Olga and Dimitriev bacame friends, I guess she used a pseudonym for his name. Also, Olga doesn't give any dates in the book, so it is hard to say when this physicist was head of the lab there. I tried to find the guy under that name, but I wasn't successful. Here is the official website of Akademgorodok where some clues might be found.

As you will soon see, there is a reason why finding out the real names of those people, might proof to be interesting, if they published papers and/or wrote books in russian. A certain friend of Dimitriev called "Vasiliev" in the book (so I guess maybe also from Akademgorodok), studied Gurdjieff quite intensely and the works of his students in russia. That name could also lead to interesting material about Gurdjieff and his teachings, that is not known in the west.

So I'm wondering if there is also a russian version of that book, that could give us more clues? I'm also wondering if our russian peeps here, can find out more about this so called "Dimitriev" and "Vasiliev" and their possible research that is probably only available in russian? Another option would be to get into contact with Olga.

Some of the other details in that account also sound interesting, as for example the Denisova's cave.
Also the mentioned work of "Lev Gumilev", which I guess is probably Lev Gumilyov, sounds very interesting. Nikolai Aleksandrovich Kozyrev, mentioned earlier, sounds like another interesting name to maybe follow up.

There is no electronical version available of the book. So I pieced it together manually. Here is the extended quote (I'm refraining from bolding to much parts, since there are to many!). The really interesting stuff begins below the blue dashed line.

Here it is:

Entering the Circle: Page 209 - 220 said:
Chapter 18

....He pointed toward the now familiar metal tube. "I will leave you here, but I will be in the next room. When you finish, let me know." He left hurriedly, before I could say anything, as if he was afraid I migh change my mind.

The door closed and I was alone in the room. It was completely insulated from all outside noise, so I was in total silence, surrounded by desks piled high with books, research papers and reports. My indecisiveness about what to do next hung like a fog in the air around me. The mirrored tube suddenly seemed intimidating. It looked like a small rocket ship, ready to transport me somewhere frightenly remote in time and space from my present existence. Or was it some kind of strange, mechanical womb, waiting to readmit my body and return it to my place of birth?

In either case, it certainly didn't strike me as a comfortable place for reading Dmitriev's notes. I stood silently in front of it until the rational part of my mind reconquered my imagination. Dmitriev obviously must have had a reason for his suggestion, so l entered the tube, carrying his notebook with me.

I curled up like an embryo in the same position I had chosen the first time. Enough light entered through the open ends of the tube that I could read Dmitriev's notes without any difficulty

I turned to the first page. I had never seen Dmitriev's handwriting before. He wrote in large, round letters that were easy to read:

It is eight P.M on Friday. I have just finished my experiment in the tube. It lasted for one hour and fifteen minutes. The following records will be written in the present tense to facilitate my memory.

I enter the tube knowing that my task for today is to find and then follow Olga's path and to learn as much as I can that will extend her own exploration. I sit in my usual position, with my legs crossed. I must use the timing techniques I have learned to go back and find the exact same channel of perception she passed through.

I close my eyes and imagine the figure of my own double. He strikes the same cross-legged pose as mine, but he is sitting up side down above my head, facing in the opposite direction. The tops of our heads touch slightly. I distribute my attention equally between both figures, filling up the double with the same energy and consciousness as my usual self. Soon our joined figures begin to rotate around the connection point between our heads. From the position of my usual image, we are turning in a clockwise direction. Seen from the side, our joined shapes look like a spinning swastika. I spin faster and faster.

The piece of time l occupy is changing, going backward. My task is not to follow Olga exactly but just to find the same level of vibration she did and then see where it leads me. My inner clock knows intuitively where to stop me for this, and I trust it to do its job. I concentrate all of my attention on facilitating the wholeness of my moving image.

At some point I feel it stop. A series of energy waves travels through different parts of my body until one of them passes straight through my heart. I feel a shock, as if l have been struck by something. I remember a phrase from an ancient Coptic gospel, "You must pay attention to me in order to see me, " and I know I must now direct all my attention toward this particular vibration gate. I must hold onto it without even a single moment of distraction.

I experience the familiar sensation of a new reality emerging into my perception. In the same way that a photograph gradually turns into visible shapes as it is being developed, forms and images are starting to reveal themselves for my vision. At first I see only the shapes of trees, their leaves moving slightly in the wind. Then a large courtyard reveals itself to me, surrounded on all four sides by low buildings made of reddish brown stone. I am standing in the middle of the courtyard, near a large, star-shaped flower bed filled with red and white flowers.

At first there appears to be no one else in the courtyard. I sense that the buildings are full of people and that they are working hard at creating something very significant. Then to my right I notice a man sitting on a bench. He is drawing something on the ground, using a long, thin stick as a tool.

The man looks very contemporary. His face seems familar to me, but I can't remember where I have seen him before. I know from past experience that I mustn't distract myself with details like trying to remember faces. I must concentrate only on the experience of the moment.

I walk closer to the man. Lifting up his hand, he greets me with a smile. He acts as if he knows who l am, and he gestures for me to sit on the bench with him. I know that I need to be very economical with my energy to keep myself in this place, so l avoid talking and instead transfer my thoughts to him simply by looking straight at his face.

---------------------------------------------------------------

My thought to him is a question, and he nods his head as in agreement. Then he begins to speak. I hear his language as fluent Russian. "You want to hear the story of a legend." he says.

I mentally confirm this to him.
"Well, first you should consider the entire concept of a legend and try to answer the question of what separates legend from reality. Is there a difference between them? Of course, I know that at the personal level of considering a question like this you have gained a lot of freedom from your old way of seeing things, but you are still too rigid to accept that your own scientific research is a kind of legend being told by others."

I disagree strongly with this, because l feel fre from any attachments at all to my position as a researcher. He pays no attention to my thought and continues.

"Now I will tell you the legend of Belovodia, only I will tell it to you not as a piece of archetypal fantasy, but as a real story. You may decide for yourself how to accept it, But what am going to tell you is the real truth."

As he speaks, the man bends over and adds one or two small symbols to the design he has made on the ground.

"Long ago, so long ago that it doesn't make any sense to specify when, a great catastrophe shook the great continent now known as Eurasia. This catastrophe had been foreseen as a possibility by the elite inner circle of a sophisticated civilzation that existed in northern Siberia. The climate then was very benign, unlike how it is today in that region. The civilization that had evolved there was highly developed. Some of their advances were later duplicated by your own culture, but in general they were more different in their skills and attainments than you could possibly imagine.

"One of the immediate effects of the catastrophe was a tremendous change in climate. Their warm, favorable weather was instantly replaced by frost. Soon the entire land was covered with ice, and it became impossible for their civilization to survive. But even after its collapse, the leading elite made all possible efforts to preserve their knowledge.

"Theirs had not been a technological culture, like yours. Their main achievements had been in developing the inner dimensions of the mind. Before the catastrophe, their entire society possessed a beautiful spiritual intensity that in your materialistic culture is experienced only by a very few. They possessed incredible psychological wisdom. They were able to control their personal experience of time, and they had learned to communicate telepathically over great distances. They had great skills in projecting the future, and their social structure was the most effective that ever existed.

"After the catastrophe, those people who were physically able were organized for a migration to the far south. The spiritual elite chose to remain behind, and these men and women experienced a series of intensive transformations. From your point of view they met death. But they still formed a collective nucleus connected with the remnants of their people who were migrating to the south.

"Those who had walked away didn't understand this fully, but they knew that their elders and teachers continued to live somewhere in the north, and they governed their lives through connections with their priests and rituals.

"Over the years the migrants new lives became consumed by the pure demands of survival. Their memories of the past gradually faded away. With their collective attention turned toward the pressing needs of their daily material existence, the direction of their culture eventually became completely changed. But the thread connecting them with the knowledge and power of their spiritual elite has never been interrupted.

"This link is still alive, even today. But gradually, over the passage of so many thousands of years, it has become more and more hidden. Even for most of their priests, its memory manifests itself mainly in the form of legends and myths. Different names are now given to the ancient place in which the sacred knowledge is kept. Belovodia is one of them.

"Preseration of their spiritual knowledge was the goal of the spiritual elite from the very beginning of the migration. That is why they remained behind. But of course, for the spiritual knowledge to be truly alive, it must be continually integrated into the social lives of new, emerging cultures. That is how it happened for a long time.

"The migration of the original civilization, which I have told you about, was only the first one. Since then, many groups of people wandered into Siberia and were influenced by the mystical powers of the vanished civilization. The Altai region became a boiling cauldron for the creation of new cultures. Streams of humanity separated from there and traveled far in many different directions.

"One of them reached the territory of modern Iran, where the spiritual knowledge they carried with them became manifested in the birth of Zoroastrianism. Later, this same stream transferred much of its knowledge to Christianity. Another stream migrated to what is now India and Pakistan, and the establishment of a society there brought to life the treasure of the Vedic tradition. Tantric Buddhism, which gave the place of initial knowledge the name of Shambhala, was in direct communication with it for centuries. Those who went west became known as the Celts and were connected to the common source through the ceremonies of the Druids. In this way, the mystical heritage of this ancient civilization resulted in the Altai region becoming the original fountainhead for many of the world's great religions.

"There have always been people within each of these different traditions who were directly in touch with Belovodia. From time to time, knowledge from there has been opened up to your own civilization. This has happened at moments of real threat to humanity, such as the world wars. It is becoming open to you again now, because the power and energy you have accumulated are capable of causing many different kinds of catastrophes. Belovodia is becoming accessible to your consciousness to protect you by showing you other ways to live."

Then the man falls silent and starts to draw geometric figures on the ground by his feet. My perception is so overloaded from the many startling implications of his speech that l can barely concentrate enough to hold onto my presence here. I fight against my nearly overwhelming desire to jump into a discussion with him of evervthing said and of the hundreds of arguments I want to present, and instead try to concentrate my entire being on where I am.

From the expression on his face, I can see that he understands perfectly the struggle going on inside me.

Then he begins again, this time speaking very slowly.

"You may make the final decision about whether what I have said to you has been about legend or reality. But actually, there is no alternative except to see it as the truth that it is. This truth is a flower that has been opening its petals one by one, facilitating and supporting the beautiful treasure of human spirituality all over the planet.

"This flower is now ready to become fully open, and to be seen and understood as the blossom of all knowledge. This wil happen very soon. You may respond to it in any way that you wish. You may choose to fight against it, or you may choose instead to welcome its divine essence and living beauty."

Here Dmitrievs handwriting ended, except for a few odd-looking geometric designs sketched uncertainly at the bottom of the page. His notes said nothing about his return from his experience or his reactions to it. It simply stopped, leaving me feeling astonished and overwhelmed. I understood now why Dmitriev had wanted me to sit inside the mirrors while I read his notes. It had made his experience seem so vivid and powerful that I felt as if I had made his journey right along with him.

I walked slowly to the room where Dmitriev waited, sitting at his desk reading a massive volume on physics. He stood up and immediately led me back into the privacy of the room with the mirrors.

"Well, what do you think?" he asked. He seemed excited and nervous.

"I'm overwhelmed. I don't really know what to say, except that your material completely took away my need to do something myself in the mirrors today. It perfectly answered the questions that were the reason for my visit. You were right about that."

He took a deep breath. "You know," he said, "I really have been fighting hard against the truth of this experience. I didn't even write down my reaction to it, because I was simply too confused and overwhelmed to try. At first I tried to deal with it by making it seem trivial. I told myself it was nothing more than a purely psychological creation of my own unconscious. But this didn't convince me. Then I tried to construct an intellectual argument against the whole concept, using all the information available from modern research.

"Of course, I'm neither a historian nor an anthropologist, but I Have many friends in these fields. I thought I knew enough from them to reject the possibility that Siberia had ever been the home of some long forgotten, advanced, esoteric civilization. I have even done some new research of my own on it, reading many books and articles.

"And do you know the result? I didn't find any real proof that this had happened, but neither was there any proof that it hadn't. In the end, the only argument to be made against it was the circular one that since it wasn't true, it couldn't be true. That's all.

"At the same time, there were many hints that supported the real existence of Belovodia and what I was told about it in my vision. There was the proven fact of Denisova's cave, one of the best-known archaeological sites in Altai, where traces of human life have been documented as belonging to the period of three hundred thousand years B.C. Then I remembered the startling comparative work that has been done between the Vedic tradition and the paganism of ancient Slavic culture. Among other things, their respective gods bore the same names and possessed similar functions.

"I even noticed that the typical hairstyle of the ancient Ukrainiar Cossacks was identical to that of the modern followers of the religion of Krishna, coming from India. Both shave their entire heads, leaving only a long tail growing from the top of the crown. The followers of Krishna believe he will pull them out of sin by this tail on the tops of their heads. I was just told by one of my friends, an anthropologist that some Japanese expeditions were being organized to explore the territory around Altai, to test the idea that the origin of their nation could be traced there.

"It was particularly fascinating to trace the connection between the name of the principal goddess of the Alta region, Umai, and other deities such as the Indian Kali and Buddhism's Tara. I came to the conclusion that they were all one and the same. Umai was embodied in Uma, the ancient Indian female spirit, who as a Shakti of Shiva is the power of light that makes perception possible. Uma is manifested as Kali in the Kalavada system and in the Kalachakra Tantra.

"Both systems were connected with belief in a time wheel. The most sacred aspects of their rituals were the ceremonial doorways opening into the roots of time, through which the initiated ones were able to reach Shambhala, or Belovodia, and to touch the mystery of immortality. There also are striking similarities with the Zervanit tradition of ancient Persia, where the ability to understand and manipulate time was the essence of their spiritual practice.

"There are the same fascinating parallels in Sufism. For many years my good friend, Mr. Vasiliev, has led a group of scholars studying the work of Gurdjieff and his predecessors. He told me just recently that in the part of Gurdjieff's work most essentially connected to the Sufi masters, he discovered the same idea of a time wheel that could be entered and used as a passageway to the mystical gate guarding the sacred land of Hurqalya. The name Hurgalya can be considered as the Sufi equivalent of Belovodia.

"Vasiliev learned that Gurdjieff also found among the Sufi masters the knowledge that the time wheel represented a stable primordial law, which could be grasped and understood through many different modalities of perception. For example, the practitioner who touches this law through meditation on mandalas opens the eyes of the heart with the assistance of the visual sense. The one who listens to the music of circles, especially in the way Gurdjieff taught this, reaches the same mystical experience assisted by the auditory senses. The same state can also be reached through dance, in which the seeker's entire body becomes the instrument leading to the sacred gates.

"The group of Gurdjeff's students who remained in Russia explained this concept further. They confirmed that whatever the mechanism that is used, if it is done correctly, the time wheel will begin to spin. And it will inevitably bring us to the final point of our destination, the mystical country of Belovodia. All this is most interesting, is it not?

"Yet if there really was an ancient, advanced civilization somewhere in northern Siberia, why have we not yet uncovered its physical remains? No matter how long ago it may have existed, why does it still lie so mysteriously hidden from our view? Well, perhaps the answer that can be found in the theories of the eminent historian and ethnologist Lev Gumilev, whose mother, Anna Akhmatova, I consider to have been the greatest woman poet Russia has ever produced.

"While he was being held as a political prisoner in the Gulag, Gumilev studied the effect of the cosmic laws of transformation of energy on the evolution of cultures. One of the many concepts he introduced was that every civilization is characterized by the different materials it uses as the foundations of its existence --- wood, leather, fabrics, metal, bone, stone, and so forth. Because of wide variations in the materials they used as well as the climates they inhabited, different civilizations, he realized, would produce remains that would obviously be preserved very unequally.

"Civilizations relying heavily on stone and metals and existing in places with hot, dry climates would leave plentiful ruins and artifacts for future archaeologists to find. It would even be common to find well preserved, naturally mummified human remains, as has happened in parts of Africa, South America, and the southwestern United States.


"However, cultures that used mainly perishable materials like wood, leather, and fabrics, which then were subjected to a cold, wet climate like Siberia's for many thousands of years, would leave very few traces of themselves behind. If such a civilization had also been of exceptionally great antiquity, existing perhaps not tens but even hundreds of thousands of years ago, we could hardly expect to find much physical evidence of its existence.

"So, while I cannot yet point to anything absolutely conclusive, there are many strong hints that the initial motheland for proto-Indo-European culture was not restricted to the area right around the Black Sea, as is believed by many scientists, but might be expanded to include the region of Altai as well.

"You know, Olga, altogether this has somehow worked to dissolve much of my skepticism as a scientist toward new theories that contradict accepted beliefs and that may at first seem unconventional. I no longer think it is historically impossible that Belovodia once existed and that in some unknown way it continues to exist and inform human culture.

"Maybe someday there will be hard evidence to prove this beyond a doubt to our practical, logical, scientific minds. For me, my intuition is already enough. My heart feels so happy and satisfied with the information I was given that l am ready to accept it as a belief. This is where where I am so far. When you asked if you could come here again, I agreed partly in the hope that my experience could help you in your own search."

Furtunately I had never been nearly as conditioned to believe only in empirical scientific evidence as Dmitriev appeared to have and many of my own stereotype of the so-called real world had already been broken down by my own experiences in Altai. So for me, it was immediately easy and plausible to see Belovodia from the perspective suggested by Dmitriev's experience. In fact, the idea fascinated me. My reaction to it was as if I had finally received a long awaited promise of protection and support.

I thanked Dmitriev emotionally and left feeling excited and contented. I had received everything I could possibly have hoped for from my visit. Beyond that, during my trip home I didn't devote much conscious thought to the information he had given me. It didn't really seem to facilitate rational analysis. It simply "fit" as an intuitive concept that immediately resolved many of my previous conflicts and left me feeling filled with a spiritual ease.

Once again it was late when I got home, but I decided to stay awake at least long enough to write down everything I had learned at the Institute of Nuclear Physics while it was still fresh in my mind. After I finished writing, I was more conscious than ever of the fact that my experiences were creating a new identity. This identity was steadily growing within me, becoming more and more aware of itself. I knew that this identity was connected to my Spirit Twin and that I was in the process of becoming my true self.

I felt as if I had finally connected the ends of a very important circle in my life. Later, I would learn that the search for understanding actually follows a series of circles joined together to form an ascending spiral. As soon as we have completed each turn and it has become whole within us, forming an integral part of our experience, we are immediately exposed to the outer boundary of the next circle. Then we are ready to take the spiral path leading to the next level....
 
Pashalis said:
As you will soon see, there is a reason why finding out the real names of those people, might proof to be interesting, if they published papers and/or wrote books in russian.

Ark wrote about Kozyrev’s mirrors in some entries of his blog, starting here:

http://arkadiusz-jadczyk.eu/blog/2017/01/nonlinear-pendulum-period-kozyrevs-mirrors/

You can search in the blog for "mirrors" or "Olga Kharitidi" for some of his thoughts on this subject.

I studied Russian in Akademgorodok last August. The place is pretty big, literally academic city. I guess anything could be happening there, but it seems that this research may well be co-opted by now.

Then there is the following from the sessions:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,25694.msg305778.html#msg305778

Now, Olga Kharatidi has some interesting experiences in a physics lab in Novosibirtsk, Russia, so she claims. She claims to have had some other interesting experiences with some shamans up in the Altai Mountains. Then, I later read that there was archaeological evidence that the Altai Mountains had traces of civilization that were dated back 300,000 years. My question is: are the Altai Mountains the magnetic meridian you were pointing us to when you were talking about Novosibirtsk and Irkutsk, and did it have anything to do with the archaeological discoveries that were made there at about the time she was having here shamanic experiences....

A: This is a good lead for you.

Q: Yes, this book has a quite different flavor from the others. (A) Is this story she tells about this Nuclear Physics Laboratory in Novosibirtsk a true story?

A: Pretty close.

Q: Has she disguised the names and specific place?

A: Yes.

Q: (A) Was it in Novosibirtsk?

A: Yes.

Q: (A) Was it the Institute of Nuclear Physics?

A: Name close, but there are 12 major facilities there.

Q: One of the things she did: they had her go into a tube, the interior of which was polished like a mirror, and it was in this tube that all of the visionary and hearing of voices stuff happened. It is sort of on the line of the psychomantium, with one exception, she wore earphones that blocked out all sound. My thought was, would it be useful or advisable for us to use the earphone and music technique too?

A: Okay.

Q: Do you still consider the use of the psychomantium to be a technique to follow?

A: Yes.


The following refering to "Darkness Over Tibet" by T. Illion is also interesting:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,21639.msg227021.html#msg227021

Q: (Laughter from all) (L) I want to ask about this book I was reading about this guy - T. Illion who traveled to Tibet and found this underground city and interacted with these strange beings, was this an actual trip this guy made in a traditional 3rd density sense?

A: It is a disguise for conveying truths of a spiritual nature as well as a depiction of 4th Density realities.

Q: (L) Did he physically travel to Tibet?

A: No.

Q: (B) Sounds like he gained some inner awareness and used a story to convey it. (L) Did he travel anywhere?

A: Yes.

Q: (L)Did he travel somewhere else and get this information and then accurately portray it as being centered in Tibet?

A: Yes.

Q: (B) Were his travels in 3rd density?

A: Yes.

Q: (B) Is it important where he traveled?

A: Yes.

Q: (B) Well you know what the next question is (laughter). What would be his destination? Where did he travel?

A: Siberia.
 
Thank you Gaby! Wasn't aware of the first session you brought up in which it was discussed. Sounds like a good lead to follow up OSIT.
 
Interesting discussion, indeed. Recently I read both Kharitidi books available in Russian (Entering the Circle and Master of lucid dreams). During the reading I felt that something wrong with Mamush shaman because he's left on that plan of reality which reminded me of ancient seers of Castaneda who seeks for people energies.

Contrary, in the second book during her travel to Uzbekistan she experienced painful practices where she had to struggle with her machine to achive new horizons, I found it quite close to Work principles, especially from "demons of memory/traumas" as G's bufers perspective.

I didn't know much about Russian Veda. but in this book there's notice on swastika
"Четыре руки этой свастики соединяют правую и левую части нашего мозга, и посредством этого связывают прошлое и будущее. Они также соединяют действие и восприятие таким способом, который отличается от нашего обычного опыта.
Таким образом в середине символа формируется чувство единства. Весь этот опыт не может быть разделен и заключен в отдельные кластеры нашей памяти, но служит воротами в Золотой Век, во времена, когда не было разделения.

Four hands of this swastika connect the right and left parts of our brain, and by means of it the past and the future connect. They also connect action and perception in such a way which differs from our normal experience. Thus in the middle of the character the feeling of unity is created. All this experience can't be partitioned and put into separate clusters of our memory, but serves as gate in the Golden Age, in times when there was no division.

Regarding Kozirev, recently I found russian magazine called Consciousness and Physical reality which consist of many topic that differs from mainstream science. Articles are full of calculations and formulas which I can't check on legeitimity. I think that for those who interested in Russian and some topics in mathematics it could be useful. There are too much topics on torsion spin physics, which could be interesting for Ark. Unfortunately, in our meeja this topic neglectfully called "torsionshina".

Such topics as soul, time, space, consciousness, connection between brain and soul, reincarnation and many others are being considered in the magazine.

You may got them from here _https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3630440
 
Razorblade said:
As there are lots of people in the conspiracy scene who are very fond of Russian culture, once in a while you come along people who suggest that Russia was like the cradle of all human cultuere and civilization. E.g. I once did an interview (English with German subtitles) with Russian philosopher Irene Caesar Ph.D. who claims that in her blog, e.g. here.

Those people also claim to have documents, called the Russian or Aryan Vedas that last back in history for tens of thousands of years. They claim to have been preserved in Siberia and Iceland.

Does anyone here have any experience with those documents? None of it was subject in any of Laura's books on "Secret History of the World" as far as I remember. So is that just Russian propaganda stuff? Part of the New Age COINTELPRO? Or is there something real behind it?

I recently re-read Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision where one theory he covers is that the North Pole has shifted, with Siberia once being more populated than it is now. Glaciers once covered nearly all of Canada and quite far south into the US, while there is little evidence of similar ice cover over the Eurasian land mass. Indeed some cataclysm has to explain the rapid die off in woolly mammoths, etc. I'm only beginning to research this, though, but he might be onto something there.

India was invaded from the north multiple times and that Hindu came with it; the southern tip - Dravidians are ethnically quite different from those from farther north in India. I don't see why it can't have originally come from Russia going far enough back.
 
The most ancient DNA lineages track back to Russia, more or less, except that, because of the "Out of Africa" theory, they always add the obligatory "came from Africa long time ago" arrow to the charts. There are a number of geneticists who make a compelling case for the "Out of Central Asia" theory.
 
Just came across this today's news from Altai, Siberia:


Since the video is in Russian, I tried to find it in the text format as well, so that it could be machine-translated into English and shared here. The closest text to this video that I managed to find is the following (via Google Translate):

Bracelet from the future: the discovery of archaeologists in the Altai casts doubt on the theory of evolution

"Bracelet from the future," the archaeologists called a bracelet found in the Denisov Cave of Soloneshensky district in the Altai. Experts have determined that the age of the object is more than 50,000 years, but the technology of its manufacture is superior to modern ones.

Prehistoric decoration is made of well polished shimmering green shades of stone. In the bracelet, scientists noticed a neat hole drilled with the help of an unknown technology, which makes it possible to assert that the subject was created by very developed people.

According to experts, a unique artifact does not fit into the usual theory of evolution. It is known that the first people appeared on Earth not earlier than 40,000 years ago, and the "Bracelet from the Future", found in 2008 in the Altai in Denisov Cave, is 50,000 years old.

A unique artifact indicates that scientists say that in Russia there was an ancient highly developed civilization that gave rise to Vedic Rus. Some scientists believe that for this statement, few facts are collected and additional studies of a unique find are required to disclose all its secrets.
 
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