Isla Vista shooter Elliot Rodger: Window into ponerology

hlat

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Isla Vista shooter Elliot Rodger: Window into ponerology
http://www.sott.net/article/279798-Isla-Vista-shooter-Elliot-Rodger-Window-into-ponerology

"All my life I've been struggling to fit in with the popular kids."

I think there's a deep problem in people trying to seek the approval of others, without first examining whether it is desirable or appropriate to have their approval. For example, if someone is a psychopath, do we want their approval? Or if someone is a total jerk or violent abuser or sexual predator, do we want their approval?
 
hlat said:
"All my life I've been struggling to fit in with the popular kids."

I think there's a deep problem in people trying to seek the approval of others, without first examining whether it is desirable or appropriate to have their approval. For example, if someone is a psychopath, do we want their approval? Or if someone is a total jerk or violent abuser or sexual predator, do we want their approval?

I think the statement coming from a probably psychopath means something different to Elliot Rodger than if it came from a normal person. His 'struggle' was that despite his 'gloriness' no one wanted to be around him. People liking him was something that was owed to him (at least in his mind). There could be a lot of varying factors involved if a normal person had trouble fitting in, but I think they would likely be a different set of issues (although of course normal people can be conditioned by pathology in the same way too - Rodger just really hits the mark on them).
 
I agree with what you have to say about approval seeking, but the article holds a more important message.

This 'person' used the words normal people use and the problems they have, like approval seeking,
sexual depravation, inability to fit in and others that are mentioned in the article, but it was with a psychopatological
twist, inversion and an extreme form of egocentricity. He basically used it to justify himself and his lies
as he went about his murderous spree.

It sounds like Rodger probably didn't even approach the girls he 'loved'/hated so much. He just KNEW they'd reject him, and created these negative fantasy narratives where he was the victim.
 
I think the statement coming from a probably psychopath means something different to Elliot Rodger than if it came from a normal person.

I don't think that "psychopath" is the right "diagnosis." This guy and his actions come across as more like schizophrenic or psychotic in some way, i.e. seriously mentally ill.
 
Laura said:
I think the statement coming from a probably psychopath means something different to Elliot Rodger than if it came from a normal person.

I don't think that "psychopath" is the right "diagnosis." This guy and his actions come across as more like schizophrenic or psychotic in some way, i.e. seriously mentally ill.

It's being reported now that he was prescribed the anti-psychotic drug Risperidone but refused to take it. But who knows if he really didn't take it. I wonder if the medications he was on contributed to his seemingly "psychopatich" behavior.

_http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mental-illness-in-spotlight-after-uc-santa-barbara-rampage/_
 
Dabrowski explains this pretty well, IMO. People who are integrated on a low level (65% of the population, according to Dabrowski) have no 'third factor', i.e., no capacity to self-determine their own personality structure. So basically, 65% of the population are totally controlled by biological and social forces. Most people will unconsciously become part of the the 'social hierarchy' and find their place. They will feel superior to those below them and inferior to those above them, bully those below them to some degree, and abase themselves to those above. But, again, they have no capacity to evaluate whether those hierarchies are good or not (because they have no hierarchy of values, because the have no third factor). They just follow the crowd, the hive mind.
 
A copy of the Police EMS scanner during the Isla Vista event and some articles with updates, along with proposed Amendments and Legislation introduced into the Senate and House Committees.

EMS scanner: Santa Barbara mass shooting (23/May/2014)
_https://soundcloud.com/producermatthew/ems-scanner-santa-barbara-mass-shooting-23may2014
16.22 minutes - both subjects in custody

Eyewitnesses: Two Shooters Involved in UCSB Massacre
_http://memoryholeblog.com/2014/05/28/eyewitnesses-two-shooters-involved-in-ucsb-massacre/#more-11211

Updated 5/29/14, 12:02AM ET: SB Police dispatch audio indicates “two suspects in custody with gunshot wounds.”

Frequently initial eyewitness accounts of violent crime scenes prove especially helpful for independent researchers to piece together what actually may have transpired. This may also be the case concerning the tragic May 23 shooting in Isla Vista, California. In this event numerous witnesses claim two men were inside the black BMW and proceeded to carry out a number of “drive by” shootings. Note, however, that this is not what has been imbued in to the popular memory over the past few days. The two pairs of local press reports below suggest differing accounts before and after the Santa Barbara Sheriff’s 2:30AM press conference on May 24, where Sheriff Bill Brown confirmed a sole suspect, Elliot Rodger, and pointed to his YouTube video rant as sufficient evidence to indict him in the court of public opinion.

Audio from SB Police dispatch indicates officers cautioned from entering Isla Vista crime scene area, and confirmation of “two suspects with gunshot wounds in custody.” From The Kev Baker Show, 5/26/14.

[ORIGINAL REPORT]

From News Channel 3-E News

Original Post May 24, 2014 12:33AM

Witnesses described seeing a black BMW speeding through the streets, spraying bullets at people and various targets near El Embarcadero and Segovia Roads and the top of the loop along Del Playa in Isla Vista.

The time frame between the first 911 call to the discovery of the dead suspect was ten minutes.

Multiple witnesses say they saw two people inside the suspect’s vehicle, however, during the press conference, Sheriff Brown would neither confirm nor deny whether there was a passenger in the car.

At this time, the sheriff is not releasing the suspect’s name, although he has been identified.

Brown called the suspect “severely mentally disturbed” and said, “This was a premeditated mass murder.”

Word on the street quickly spread about an ominous YouTube video posted by a young man who identified himself as Elliot Rodger, titled “Retribution.”The nearly seven minute long rant blasts women who’ve ignored or rejected him over the past eight years and warns that he will “punish you all for it.”

When questioned about the video during the news conference, Sheriff Brown indicated investigators were familiar with it and are looking into whether Roger was connected with the crime.

The victims include someone who was shot dead inside the I.V. Delimart on Pardall Road. The market windows are pocked with bullet holes. Another crime scene is marked near the 7-11 convenience store.

Xavier Mozejewski told NewsChannel 3 reporter Victoria Sanchez that he witnessed some of the violence and described it as an “old western shoot-out.”

Michael Vitak, a student from the Czech Republic, told Sanchez what he witnessed.

“Guys in a BMW. Maybe they were trying to prove they’re tough,” Vitak said during a live televised interview. Vitak saw them shooting at two girls; one was shot dead, the other was critically hurt.

“I heard shots, screams, pain,” said Vitak. “All emotions. I hope she is going to be fine,” he said.

Vitak said it was too dark to see the suspects’ faces.

About the same time the drive-by shootings occurred, the California Highway Patrol website logged a hit and run along Del Playa that left someone with major leg and head trauma.

NewsChannel 3 senior reporter John Palminteri said via phone, “It is a horrible scene out here.”

Palminteri described multiple ambulances, a black BMW that slammed into as many as two cars, and a body covered with a yellow tarp lying in the road on Del Playa. He indicated the deceased may have been shot by a deputy or police officer.

By 12:15 a.m. Saturday morning, Palminteri updated viewers that he’d seen a total of four body bags.

One woman identified as Sierra told Sanchez she was approached by two men in a black BMW. The driver flashed a small black handgun and asked ‘”Hey, what’s up?”‘

[UPDATED REPORT]

From News Channel 3-E News

ISLA VISTA, Calif. –

Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown revealed new details about Friday night’s drive by shootings in Isla Vista during a Saturday morning news conference, including a new death toll and a possible link to an ominous YouTube video.

Brown said the initial call came in to dispatch at 9:27 p.m. Friday night as multiple gunshots.

Deputies in the area found several victims and received information about the suspect and vehicle involved.

Witnesses described seeing a black BMW speeding through the streets, spraying bullets at people and various targets near El Embarcadero and Segovia Roads and the top of the loop along Del Playa.

Brown said at 9:33 p.m. the suspect exchanged gunfire with deputies then veered down Del Playa and crashed into a parked car. Deputies found the suspect inside the BMW dead from a gunshot wound to the head. Brown said he did not know if the suspect was shot and killed by deputies or if the wound was self-inflicted.

The sheriff said a semi automatic handgun was recovered from the scene and believes the suspect acted alone.

[ORIGINAL REPORT]

From the Santa Barbara Independent

Originally published May 23, 2014, 10:00PM

According to the latest unconfirmed reports, three people were killed and seven injured in a series of Isla Vista shootings that occurred around 9:30 p.m. on Friday night. One of the suspects was also reportedly killed, and another is in custody. Multiple locations are being treated as crime scenes, most around the UCSB college town’s central loop.

One of the incidents occurred on Embarcadero del Norte between Cordoba and Segovia roads, where a Santa Barbara City College student named Thomas said he heard as many as 20 gunshots.

A second crime scene was inside the Isla Vista Deli Mart, at 6553 Pardall Road, where the old Isla Vista Bookstore used to be. According to the deli’s owner, one of his customers, which he believed to be a male, was hit by bullets shot from a car outside the market and died on scene.

The third crime scene visited by Hayden was the 7-11 in the new Isla Vista Icon development. Two men in handcuffs were being questioned there in full view of a small crowd. That crowd cheered when one of them was put inside the law enforcement vehicle around 11:25 p.m. Officials said the men had refused orders to stay out of the crime scene areas.

Anecdotal yet unconfirmed reports from the Isla Vista streets suggest that the vehicle involved was a black BMW with a passenger shooting a handgun.

There appears to be another body under a tarp near 6583 Del Playa Drive, according to Hayden. Nearby is a black BMW, matching the description of the vehicle witnesses say was involved in the shooting spree, and its front windshield is smashed in.

[REVISED REPORT]

From the Santa Barbara Independent

Originally published May 24, 2014, 4:00AM

A lone gunman killed six people and injured seven more during a shooting rampage Friday night in Isla Vista that Sheriff Bill Brown called “the work of a madman.” The suspect was killed after firing on responding deputies, but it’s not clear if the fatal wound to his head was self-inflicted or the result of return fire.

The seven injured victims are being treated at Santa Barbara Cottage hospital — some for gunshot wounds, others for trauma sustained when the suspect crashed his car as he was pursued — and one recently underwent surgery for life-threatening injuries.

Initial reports suggested that two suspects were involved in the shooting, but Brown said during a 2:30 a.m. press conference Saturday morning that the gunman acted alone. Brown said the man was armed with a semi-automatic handgun and that investigators are working to determine if other weapons were involved.

Elliot Rodger’s Parents Break Silence on Shooting
_http://time.com/136764/elliot-rodger-parents/

Bloomberg calls for stricter gun laws in wake of Isla Vista rampage
_http://news.yahoo.com/bloomberg-isla-vista-shooting-rampage-155330567.html

June, 1, 2014 - Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is weighing in on the rampage in Santa Barbara, California, calling both for stricter gun laws and for background checks for people with mental illness.

"The real problem here is we have too many guns in the hands of criminals, people with psychiatric problems — as this guy obviously did — and minors," Bloomberg said on "Meet The Press" on Sunday. "And we've got to find some ways to stop that.

Santa Barbara police say 22-year-old Elliot Rodger killed six people and wounded 13 others in the May 23 rampage in Isla Vista, California, before killing himself. On Sunday, Bloomberg lamented laws allowing students to carry guns on college campuses.

In April, Bloomberg launched Everytown, a new gun control organization that he believes can rival the National Rifle Association.

"For too long, change has been thwarted by the Washington gun lobby and by leaders who refuse to take commonsense steps that will save lives," says the organization's mission statement.


In the wake of deadly shootings in Tucson, Arizona, Aurora, Colorado, Newtown, Connecticut, Fort Hood, Texas, and elsewhere, Bloomberg is hoping his new group can do what President Barack Obama has not: successfully lobby Congress for stricter gun control laws.

House Democrats introduce gun-control bill targeting the mentally ill in wake of Isla Vista shootings
_http://washingtonexaminer.com/house-democrats-introduce-gun-control-bill-targeting-the-mentally-ill-in-wake-of-isla-vista-shootings/article/2549152

June 1, 2014 - House Democrats introduced legislation (The Promoting Healthy Minds for Safer Communities Act of 2014)

The measure would ban the purchase or possession of firearms by anyone who has been involuntary committed to an outpatient medical facility by a court that finds him a threat to himself or others.

Current federal law has been interpreted to apply only to inpatient commitments.

The measure comes after Elliot Rodger was accused of fatally shooting six people last week near the University of California, Santa Barbara. Rodger had been in therapy for years but bought guns legally.

Bloomberg Sycophants Spring an Ambush Friday with Anti-Gun Amendment in House
_ http://www.ammoland.com/2014/05/bloomberg-sycophants-spring-an-ambush-friday-with-anti-gun-amendment-in-house/#ixzz33O9QLGTD

June 1, 2014 - GUN CONTROL VOTE IN HOUSE: Disciples of anti-gun billionaire Michael Bloomberg staged an ambush in the House of Representatives on Thursday. And 76 Republicans fell right into the trap.

The vote was on a Mike Thompson (D-CA) and Peter King (R-NY) amendment to the Commerce-Justice-Science funding bill. Both Representatives hold an “F” rating with Gun Owners of America.

Their amendment would add an additional $19.5 million to pay states to turn in more names to the federal gun-ban (NICS) list.

Already, more than 175,000 law-abiding veterans have lost their Second Amendment rights this way. And, in states like New York, this money will pay to strip Americans of their constitutional rights, merely because they consult a psychiatrist and are prescribed a therapeutic drug.

The amendment was sprung so that GOA had only a few hours to send a letter to the Hill, and no time to send out a new alert to its members — although we told you earlier this week that Bloomberg and Obama minions were renewing efforts to exploit the recent California tragedy and pass gun control. NRA took no public position at all on the legislation.

Despite the short turn-around time, GOA did manage to get a Facebook alert out to its members.

In the end, the Thompson-King amendment passed by a vote of 260-145. That’s the bad news.

The good news is that the battle has just begun. The bill now goes to the Senate, and will ultimately be shelved in favor of a massive government-wide funding bill — called a “continuing resolution” or CR.

Hence, there is still a possibility that we can get the Thompson-King amendment removed from the final CR.

D.C. proposes bill to force legal gun owners with temporary restraining orders to surrender firearms
_http://www.guns.com/2014/05/31/d-c-proposes-bill-to-force-legal-gun-owners-with-temporary-restraining-orders-to-surrender-firearms-video/

June 1, 2014 - The Washington D.C. Council is considering a new bill that, if passed, would force legal gun owners who have a temporary restraining order filed against them to immediately surrender their registered firearms.

While those who have already been convicted of domestic abuse charges are prohibited from owning guns under federal law, this bill is aimed at those who are still legally allowed to possess them, and would require them to give up their guns before having their day in court.

Operation Choke Point Forces Bank To Dump Gun Store
_http://www.blacklistednews.com/Operation_Choke_Point_forces_bank_to_dump_gun_store

May 31, 2014 - A Massachusetts gun seller says it’s the latest victim of a federal multiagency task force that is squeezing financing sources for industries deemed “high-risk” by the Obama administration, such as porn stores, drug paraphernalia shops and gun merchants.

Powderhorn Outfitters, which sells firearms, archery gear and fishing equipment in Hyannis, Massachusetts, posted in an online forum this week that its longtime bank – TD Bank – had suddenly dropped its account.

“TD Bank does not support the Second Amendment and has contacted us here at the Powderhorn to say that due to our involvement in firearms sales, we as a business are no longer welcome to have an account at their bank,” the sporting goods store posted on northeastshooters.com, an online forum for shooting enthusiasts in New England states. “They classify us in the same gray area as the local weed shops sprouting up on the Cape.”

US House moves to bolster gun background checks
_http://news.yahoo.com/us-house-moves-bolster-gun-background-check-system-233357263.html

May 30, 2014 - Washington (AFP) – US lawmakers moved to boost funding of the national background check system for firearm sales, a small but symbolic step toward broader gun law reform following recent mass shootings.

The measure would provide $19.5 million to help states submit records to a federal database aimed at preventing felons and the mentally ill from buying weapons.

Gun bill would allow police to seize firearms, prevent purchases
_http://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legislation-Law-Enforcement/articles/7234221-Gun-bill-would-allow-police-to-seize-firearms-prevent-purchases/

May 29, 2014 -SACRAMENTO, Calif. — Lawmakers reacted to the Santa Barbara shooting by announcing plans Tuesday for a bill to create a “gun violence restraining order.”

The bill would establish a system in which concerned relatives, intimate partners or friends can notify police about someone showing a propensity toward violence, so police can investigate and seek a judge’s order to seize that person’s firearms and prevent any purchases.

“The tragic incident in my hometown of Isla Vista is not a result of gun laws failing,” Williams said. “Rather, it is a horrific example of how our mental health laws and gun control laws are not working together.”
 
Great article!. Thanks for sharing.

Teresa said:
Laura said:
I think the statement coming from a probably psychopath means something different to Elliot Rodger than if it came from a normal person.

I don't think that "psychopath" is the right "diagnosis." This guy and his actions come across as more like schizophrenic or psychotic in some way, i.e. seriously mentally ill.

It's being reported now that he was prescribed the anti-psychotic drug Risperidone but refused to take it. But who knows if he really didn't take it. I wonder if the medications he was on contributed to his seemingly "psychopatich" behavior.

_http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mental-illness-in-spotlight-after-uc-santa-barbara-rampage/_
Yes, that was a person who was mentally ill, no doubt. But it remains to be seen if he had the disease diagnosed and if he took those drugs.

Approaching Infinity said:
Dabrowski explains this pretty well, IMO. People who are integrated on a low level (65% of the population, according to Dabrowski) have no 'third factor', i.e., no capacity to self-determine their own personality structure. So basically, 65% of the population are totally controlled by biological and social forces. Most people will unconsciously become part of the the 'social hierarchy' and find their place. They will feel superior to those below them and inferior to those above them, bully those below them to some degree, and abase themselves to those above. But, again, they have no capacity to evaluate whether those hierarchies are good or not (because they have no hierarchy of values, because the have no third factor). They just follow the crowd, the hive mind.
Thank you very much. It is a great reminder. And also it applies to many people. And myself in some ways. Hopefully all of us in this forum who are struggling to have a stronger inside, achieve in a future become true individuals in front the eyes of life.
I watched the video, and as has been said in the article, his ego was enormous. And monstrous!. Even looks like a great performance, murdering people as a cold and calculated show (like a daddy's business). No emotions. leave a video as a sign of superiority for the virtual eternity. Talking about a ill revenge disguised with big names. As someone who knew him said, he was like a ghost, and with no foot in reality. It must have been strange to see this guy in person.
It is possible that coming from a home where his father was a movie director in hollywood, he believed that could have what he wanted, whenever he wanted to. But if he was a dysfunctional OP, then all the money, cars, aesthetic operations or fame could hide there was something wrong with him. He was obsessed with the social hierarchy, yes. And with white and blonds people, "the most exalted of the hierarchy" according to what was internalized by this schizophrenic (that may be why he despised blacks and Asians). But he was not "completely white", so maybe he despised himself. Or his father despised him, or others in his childhood. There he would have had the first short circuit, generator of narratives about "his injustices". Hated him-hated himself long ago in his life. And then these narratives grew: everybody hated him. He made up thinking of their idiocy to recognize that he was better than all of them. I think he could have been with some girl, but he was so egotist without social interaction skills and focused on not-be-white (to be accepted) that he could not meet anyone. In addition, his desires were pathological and superficial, and looked to be accepted only on the surface, as how he saw the world. Though many issues might be useless in this case if we are projecting some psychological depth to a guy whose interior was like a barren desert.
And the issue of the second shooter makes things more complicated (also linked with the question of drugs). But it is not new, like anything that do the "worshipers" of entropy.

Edit: Spelling.
 
Approaching Infinity said:
Dabrowski explains this pretty well, IMO. People who are integrated on a low level (65% of the population, according to Dabrowski) have no 'third factor', i.e., no capacity to self-determine their own personality structure. So basically, 65% of the population are totally controlled by biological and social forces. Most people will unconsciously become part of the the 'social hierarchy' and find their place. They will feel superior to those below them and inferior to those above them, bully those below them to some degree, and abase themselves to those above. But, again, they have no capacity to evaluate whether those hierarchies are good or not (because they have no hierarchy of values, because the have no third factor). They just follow the crowd, the hive mind.

Along the lines of authoritarian followers? Where does Dabrowski explain this?
 
SMM said:
Approaching Infinity said:
Dabrowski explains this pretty well, IMO. People who are integrated on a low level (65% of the population, according to Dabrowski) have no 'third factor', i.e., no capacity to self-determine their own personality structure. So basically, 65% of the population are totally controlled by biological and social forces. Most people will unconsciously become part of the the 'social hierarchy' and find their place. They will feel superior to those below them and inferior to those above them, bully those below them to some degree, and abase themselves to those above. But, again, they have no capacity to evaluate whether those hierarchies are good or not (because they have no hierarchy of values, because the have no third factor). They just follow the crowd, the hive mind.

Along the lines of authoritarian followers? Where does Dabrowski explain this?

He never uses the word authoritarian followers, but the similarities are there. He discusses it in pretty much all his books, but the one I reference most is "Multilevelness of Emotional and Instinctive Functions".
 
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