Israel attacks Gaza flotilla - Many dead

[aragorn]

Some more details of the Iara Lee footage:

_http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/293201

Smuggled footage of raid on Mavi Marmara to be revealed Thursday

American filmmaker and peace activist Iara Lee managed to smuggle about an hour's worth of documentation of the Israeali raid on the Mavi Marmara back to the United States. Lee will be releasing her footage Thursday during a press conference with the United Nations. Smuggled out, the footage has never been seen before, but Lee gave the footage to Democracy Now for an exclusive that aired Thursday morning. Democracy Now showed portions of the footage while interviewing Lee about her experience. Lee had accompanied the flotilla aiming to break Isreal's blockade of Gaza in order to document the peace mission.The footage is chilling, and it will be shown in its entirety during the press conference. It is not known if the footage will be widely available after the conference. In a portion broadcast by Democracy Now, viewers can see people caring for those who were shot. In one clip, a woman informs the Israeli navy that Mavi Marmara is full of unarmed civilians trying to take care of injured people. The woman clearly told Isreal they needed assistance.

At the press conference to take place Thursday at 4 pm, est., Lee will give a statement and answer questions from the press. From the clips shown by Democracy Now, Lee's footage appears to back up the Turkish autopsies that showed five of the passengers on board the Mavi Marmara were shot at close range from behind. Nine Turkish men died in the raid.

 

[aragorn]

For those of you who aren't yet aware of this:

I just read on the website _http://www.culturesofresistance.org/gaza-freedom-flotilla that the full hour long footage of Iara Lee has just been released on the internet.

You can find it here:

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwsMJmvS0AY

Download: _http://tc.indymedia.org/files/flotilla-footage/index.html [Full footage: 1,4GB; 15min footage: 488MB]

I've only watched the 15min footage so far. Watching the full footage now + downloading it via Youtube.

Short clip from the press conference, some comments by Iara and Norman Finkelstein: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w2F1tr1FvY

 

[Zadig]

Israel Defense Force video of siege of 'Mavi Marmara' Hoaxed?

Three sleuth posters working together at conspiracy forum whatdefuck.com proved the Israeli Defense Force footage of the attack on the Mavi Marmara was a deliberate fabrication as seen in this video originally broadcast by SKY NEWS:

Enlargement : http://whatdefuck.com/news/idf_video/mavi_small.gif

The video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAYU9voZMD4&feature=player_embedded#at=30

The unraveling of this tall tale on the high seas began on the morning of Friday, June the 4th when the poster known as Shadow made the following remark to another forum poster known as JayRodney:

"I had a close look at web pics of the Mavi Marmara and the ship in the vid that shows the Turks attacking the IDF as they land. I do not believe it is the same ship. Compare them though, I'd like your opinion on it."

To which JayRodney responded: "I have to conclude by my initial observation 'Mavi Marmara' should be visible 36-37 seconds into the video. Octo is getting screen shots and we will make the best comparison based upon available evidence.
I think it's safe to call shenanigans. It looks suspiciously like Mossad Productions, I'd say the margin of error is less than 1%. This is most assuredly propaganda."

Then the proverbial bomb was dropped, irrefutable evidence provided in the form of an animated .gif file:

The poster known as Octo said: "ok, the pics are from slightly different angles, but to the best of my knowledge at approximately the same place of the ship(s) superimposed: doesn't even look like the same ship to me."

Proof positive! The boats name should have been visible in at least one frame of the SKY NEWS video. Not only is the ships designation 'Mavi Marmara' conspicuously absent, but the entire vessel is clearly different; it's not the same boat!

This IDF footage is clearly fabricated, I wonder how the Israeli government will explain this away?

Source: http://whatdefuck.com/news/idf_video/newspage.html

Enlargement: http://www.turkgemileri.com/ships/mavi_marmara4.jpg

What do you think?

 

[Breton]

I just have to share this:

Some Finns seem to think that the Finnish news media, by not putting forth Israeli lies, is not reporting Israeli point of view well enough. Therefore the news is biased so they think it necessary to have a demonstration march to support Israel!

I guess it proves what happens when people don't have an appreciation of psychopathy and the process of ponerology. Therefore they naturally assume the truth lies somewhere between two points of view. However this does not apply when one point of view is a total fabrication.

Or... could some of them be fundamentalists that believe in the rapture? [Not typical for Finns]. or ... could there be shills for Israel here too?

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/About+2000+take+part+in+pro-Israel+march+in+Helsinki/1135257478148

[I added the bold below]

About 2,000 take part in pro-Israel march in Helsinki

Police estimate that about 2,000 people took part in a demonstration in support of Israel in the centre of Helsinki on Thursday evening.

After marching from the Aurora sportsground, a rally was held at the Kasarmitori square, after which the marchers moved on to the Old Church, where the event concluded.

The demonstration came after last week’s raid by Israeli commandos on an international aid flotilla that was bringing humanitarian supplies to Gaza in defiance of Israel’s embargo. Nine people were killed by the Israelis in the operation. Many of the marchers criticised the Finnish media over what they saw as biased coverage of the incident.
“The reporting was distorted. I’m not here to incite violence, but I am demanding that the point of view of both sides should come out”, said Simon Elo from Espoo.

One of the demonstrators, Kaija Patrikainen, who had lived in Israel for 18 years, criticised Helsingin Sanomat for biased reporting, and defended the embargo on Gaza.
“When I lived in Israel, bombs were constantly falling near the Gaza security fence. I have been following the reporting on the events in the Hebrew-language media”, she said.

The Israeli Ambassador to Finland and Estonia, Avi Granot, also took part in the march. Granot said that he is grateful “for the support shown by ordinary Finns”.
The Israel Friendship Committee, which organised the event, estimated that 3,000 took part. The committee’s chairman John Remes was surprised at the turnout.
“There are all kinds of Christians from all congregations here, not just Jews. We are not against anyone, but the image given by the media of recent events is one-sided”, Remes said.

 

[shijing]

Some Finns seem to think that the Finnish news media, by not putting forth Israeli lies, is not reporting Israeli point of view well enough. Therefore the news is biased so they think it necessary to have a demonstration march to support Israel!

Aw, you're kidding! I wonder where else this is happening besides Finland...

... could there be shills for Israel here too?

I would not discount that as a possibility -- I think that Mossad/The Secret Team are quite good at working behind the scenes pretty much everywhere, so why not Finland? It could be entirely innocent on the part of the protesters (relatively speaking), but it does kind of stink, doesn't it?

 

[realitybugll]

the footage on sott.net of Furkan Dogan being killed appears to be misleading and inaccurate.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/210300-Video-Israeli-Soldiers-Killing-Furkan-Dogan-19-Years-The-Freedom-Flotilla

It is compiled / edited from a longer 3 minute segment of video located here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3qGF9amIHw&feature=player_embedded.

It looks like the soldier is trying to fix the rifle / paintball gun, not actually shooting Furkan (or whoever it is). I could be wrong.

no doubt of-course they are kicking whoever it is who is on the ground.

 

[clerck de bonk]

Breton, I don't know if You have noticed this but as soon as things get 'sticky' for the state of Israel(many equate this with being Jew) in connection to Finland(in one way or other) and a protest is summoned the number of protesters are usually around 2000...

Tried to verify with an article but couldn't find any . But I distinctly remember the last time they marched(during the attack into Lebanon) the amount of people where about the same. I would call them, for lack of a better word, 'hangarounds'.

 

[clerck de bonk]

Re: Israel Defense Force video of siege of 'Mavi Marmara' Hoaxed?

1. The nightime fotos don't have shadows making it difficult to understand the shapes of the overstructure
2. The daytime foto do have shadows but it is taken from a slightly different angle and the strong lighting "blots" out certain parts of the overstructure

My conclusion: the pictures taken together will show it's the same boat


My second conclusion: Stick to the facts
- people got killed and the people killed where not IDF personnel
- the people killed where(some) shot at very close range
- the attack took place in international waters
- the attack was uncalled for

...others might recall even more facts


Edit

In this article: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/210364-IDF-Video-Of-Attack-On-The-Mavi-Marmara-Manipulated- the authenticity of the nightime-video is under question because the name(Mavi Marmara) cannot be seen on the side of the ship.
IMO it can be seen however faintly. The reason being its a nightime(or whatever you call it) film which doesn't discern color. Compare with lifeboats(orange) for example or other blue spots.

Again: the boat is Mavi Marmara, stick to the known facts they are enough. There is no need to go out on thin ice in this case!

 

[Breton]

Breton, I don't know if You have noticed this but as soon as things get 'sticky' for the state of Israel(many equate this with being Jew) in connection to Finland(in one way or other) and a protest is summoned the number of protesters are usually around 2000...

Tried to verify with an article but couldn't find any . But I distinctly remember the last time they marched(during the attack into Lebanon) the amount of people where about the same. I would call them, for lack of a better word, 'hangarounds'.

Good point, clerck de bonk, you may be on to something about those numbers.

And I just had a few minutes to check more and it seems that march was arranged by a group that does just this sort of thing:

http://icej.fi/uutiset/2010/06/04/israel-tukimarssi-to-10-6-2010/

A quick look at their web site (in Finnish) and I got an impression that they may see Israel as a "holy country".
Well, if so, then of course, any news that reports those facts that are not in favour of a "holy country" will be considered biased the wrong way.

Disappointing.

 

[Breton]

Re: Israel Defense Force video of siege of 'Mavi Marmara' Hoaxed?

I want to kind of second what clerk de bonk suggested, because it is good to consider in these situations.

When the facts are solid, we don't need to delve too far into the unclear things.

Of course it would be icing on the cake if it was found that the pictures provided by these criminals were obviously faked, (and sometimes fabricated evidence is offered) but if they are not so obvious then it becomes a distraction from the really solid facts.

I might add one more to clerck de bonk's list: the soldiers came from helicopters in the middle of the night too.

Maybe others don't find it significant, but I think of it as a kind of "gestapo" trick for producing maximum fear, confusion, and when the targets are at their most vulnerable (many are sleeping or tired). They could have just sailed up in the middle of the day and politely asked if they could come aboard. (Like Canadians do! :D)

1. The nightime fotos don't have shadows making it difficult to understand the shapes of the overstructure
2. The daytime foto do have shadows but it is taken from a slightly different angle and the strong lighting "blots" out certain parts of the overstructure

My conclusion: the pictures taken together will show it's the same boat


My second conclusion: Stick to the facts
- people got killed and the people killed where not IDF personnel
- the people killed where(some) shot at very close range
- the attack took place in international waters
- the attack was uncalled for

...others might recall even more facts


Edit

In this article: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/210364-IDF-Video-Of-Attack-On-The-Mavi-Marmara-Manipulated- the authenticity of the nightime-video is under question because the name(Mavi Marmara) cannot be seen on the side of the ship.
IMO it can be seen however faintly. The reason being its a nightime(or whatever you call it) film which doesn't discern color. Compare with lifeboats(orange) for example or other blue spots.

Again: the boat is Mavi Marmara, stick to the known facts they are enough. There is no need to go out on thin ice in this case!

 

[aragorn]

Three sleuth posters working together at conspiracy forum whatdefuck.com proved the Israeli Defense Force footage of the attack on the Mavi Marmara was a deliberate fabrication as seen in this video originally broadcast by SKY NEWS:

What do you think?

Hi Zadig, since I didn't find that the animated gif image really proved anything I decided to research this claim a bit myself. My conclusion is that this is most probably a 'red herring' and could be designed to just distract people.Let me explain.

The first claim or hypothesis (from the source above, and also _info-wars.org) is that the name of the ship, Mavi Marmara, should be seen in the IDF footage. One can see that in the footage the side of the ship appears completely 'white', but if looked closely there appears to be traces of some letters. The IDF footage is supposedly shot in infrared. I don't know anything about how infrared cameras work, but I think it's possible that this type of text wouldn't simply show up in infrared filming. There's of course the possibility that the video is made to look like infrared footage, but I don't have any expertise to examine that. But if the ship in the IDF footage is not the Mavi then it must be a ship very similar to it. Which leads us to the claim that it's in fact the Mavi's sister ship.

So the hypothesis is that the ship in the IDF footage is in fact the Mavi Marmara's sister ship, the TDI Karadeniz, later known as M/S Dream. The ships are the same model with just a few differences that I could find: the Karadeniz (or Dream) has three smaller spinning radar 'things' on the exhaust pipe in the bow, the Mavi has only two. The Karadeniz has also two small quite low cone shaped 'radar domes' (I'm not sure what they are), one in the MIDDLE between the two pipes, and one in the front. The Mavi has only one cone radar dome and it's situated on a high stand more to the stern of the ship. Actually, from images that I've gone through it seems that the Mavi had previously a smaller mushroom shaped radar dome placed in the middle (the same position as in the Karadeniz), but before the Gaza trip it was replaced with a bigger cone shaped dome and placed more towards the stern – exactly where the bows of the life boats are. There are also some differences in colouring and letters, but they aren't that useful in this context.

The discussion on _info-wars.org is IMO misleading, they are trying to see things that aren't there. This could be deliberate or just poor research by the members. One of the posters is saying:

_http://info-wars.org/2010/06/10/video-israel-defense-force-video-of-siege-of-‘mavi-marmara’-hoaxed/

(David Dodge on June 10th, 2010 11:06 PM)
It’s the TDI Karadeniz , the Mavi Marmara’s sister ship. It was recently sold to a Greek company and renamed “Dream”. In the IDF video you can clearly see the painted over “Turkish Maritime Lines” that was never on the Mavi Marmara.

The text 'Turkish Maritime Lines' is positioned quite low and could not possibly show up in the IDF footage, which shows only the upper part of the ship. I'm not sure about the 'sold to a Greek company' either, according to the site _faktaomfartyg.se (Swedish site – facts about ships):

_http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/tdi_karadeniz_1997.htm

1993. Sjösatt med namnet CILDIR.
Levererades 1997 till Turkish Maritime Lines, Istanbul, Turkiet.
1997. Insatt på Medelhavskryssningar.
2005 04 18. Såld till Blue Dream Shipping Ltd.
2005 06 27. Såld till Loral Ltd, Valletta, malta. Omdöpt till DREAM.

Another poster says this:

(jim on June 12th, 2010 3:51 AM)
I had a look and i reached the same conclusion a few others have–the ship is a similar model to the mavi marmara, probably produced by the same company around the same time. however the ship itself IS NOT the mavi marmara. the two ships’ interiors have completely different makeups. we must spread the word of this before more fall for the fake propaganda.

How on earth could one possibly determine the interior of ship based on the 'infrared' IDF footage? Notice also how the poster says that we must spread the word. The discussion is full of these discrepancies.

Lets take a closer look on some images and the IDF footages. Here's first a image of the Mavi M on it's way to Gaza - notice the big cone shaped radar dome:

And one taken from the air before departure:

Notice the huge cone shaped 'radar dome' on the deck almost exactly positioned where the life boats bows are. It's positioned on a quite high stand. In this picture which is dated 31.5.2010 you can see that the new 'dome' is being constructed - only the stand is showing:

This tells me that this radar dome was something that was especially constructed (or modified) for the Gaza trip; take a look how the Mavi's dome looked s few years ago, this is from 2005 (_http://www.turkgemileri.com/ships/mavimarmara.htm):

You can see that the dome is round and smaller and that it's positioned in the middle and lower on the deck.

Lets take a look how the 'radar domes' on the Karadeniz/Dream look like, these are from 2006 (couldn't find any newer pictures than that):

Here you can see that all tough the M/S Dream has cone shaped 'radar domes' the one we are interested in is positioned in the middle and that the stand isn't as high as with the radar dome in the Mavi (the lower part is almost aligned with the side of the ship).

Then lets take a look at the footage from the IDF video. I took some screecaps from the two video clips.

As you can see the 'radar dome' in the videos is cone shaped, on a high stand and positioned at the back of the main deck almost exact where the
life boats bows are. So, based on this I think it's a high probability that the ship in the IDF footage is the Mavi Marmara.

Having said that, the footage by e.g. Iara Lee proves clearly that the Mavi crew was approached like 'thieves in the night' with a force of several commando
soldiers. I tried to imagine myself in the shoes of the crew. I sense that if soldiers would creep on me like that, in total darkness in the middle of the night,
it would be a quite normal action to throw some plates or do some other form of 'defending' because I would be scared to death!

 

[Joe]

I think you are right Aragorn, and thanks for the analysis. It seems beyond doubt that it was the Mavi Marmara in the IDF video, and as you say, it is totally acceptable that some of the people on board defended themselves. The fact that the Israeli govt. is trying to using their defending themselves as evidence of hostile intent is laughable, given the facts. It is the same argument they use when trying to justify firing rockets from war planes and helicopters at Gaza's civilian because they are confronted with stone-throwing Palestinian children.

 

[GRiM]

I just wanted to document this too.

http://imgur.com/wKG9s.jpg
http://imgur.com/04LW2.jpg
http://imgur.com/eUDwG.jpg

"Israeli Attack on the Mavi Marmara // Raw Footage "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwsMJmvS0AY#t=39m30sec

The Norwegian journalist says "Oh, we have a little laser-sight here... There is a laser-sight there"

To my knowledge, paintball-guns don't use laser-sights.



edit:

WHY USE A LASER SIGHT

The person equipped with a laser sight simply moves the red laser dot onto the target then fires. It is no longer necessary to close one eye and use the conventional sights. Liberation from the bondage of conventional sights greatly increases shooting speed and accuracy. The laser sight offers the following specific advantages:

You can shoot from the hip with the same accuracy as from the shoulder, but much faster. In any combat situation when you are on the move, rather than behind cover, first round accuracy while firing quickly from the hip may spell the difference between life and death.

With the weapon at the hip or underarm position, you can track a moving far more effectively than when peering down conventional sights. You can aim accurately in dim light when it is difficult or impossible to see your conventional sights.

The laser sight performs beautifully in conjunction with Night Vision.You gain a psychological advantage over your opponent by putting the laser spot in the target and making certain that the target is aware of it. Seeing the dot, the target knows exactly where the bullet will hit him. Since there is no need to raise the weapon to eye level, you retain unobstructed peripheral vision while you fire.

 

[JEEP]

This does not portend well:

SEA BATTLE FEAR AS IRAN SENDS FLOTILLA TO GAZA

Sunday June 13,2010
By Kirsty Buchanan

IRANIAN President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has vowed to breach Israel’s blockade of Gaza, as two aid ships and a military escort prepare to set sail.

In a provocative move the ­Iranian Red Crescent was this weekend due to send two vessels packed with food and medical aid and 70 relief workers.

A third ship, carrying an operating theatre, could follow.

President Ahmadinejad raised the spectre of a sea battle as he warned the ships would be carrying an escort of “volunteer marines” ready to “teach Israelis a lesson”.

Ali Shirazi, the Revolutionary Guard’s spokesman for Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said it was “Iran’s duty to defend the innocent people of Gaza”. Foreign Secretary William Hague described the intervention as “unhelpful”.

The blockade has been in place since Hamas took control of Gaza in 2006 despite inter­national concern about a humanitarian crisis.

That concern turned to condemnation on May 31 when, in a raid on a Turkish aid flotilla, nine people were killed by Israeli commandos.

Despite promises of an inquiry the affair has all but destroyed relations between Israel and its main ally in the Muslim world.

Abdolrauf Adibzadeh, the Red Crescent’s director of inter­national affairs, said the ships were being sent in co-ordination with the Turkish government.

Meeting Turkish leaders in Istanbul last week the Iranian president said the vessels would not shrink from a head-on clash with Israeli military.

The threat came ahead of a UN Security Council vote to strengthen sanctions on Iran over its uranium enrichment programme.

Turkey was one of the two nations to vote against the sanctions. The European Union will next week discuss tightening its own sanction regime amid fears Tehran is close to creating weapons-grade uranium. There are also concerns about human rights abuses in Iran, with opposition to the regime ruthlessly suppressed.

 

[JEEP]

IDF "Paintball guns" exposed as suppressed UZIS

CONFIRMED Israeli soldiers used suppressed Uzi Sub-Machine Guns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dbxxm1EhAU

Analysis on BBC's Newsnight (2010/06/01) shows that the IDF boarded carrying suppressed (silenced) versions of Uzi submachine guns. Uzi machine gun here- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzi This clearly gives credence to the view that the Israelis attacked with lethal intent. Thankyou to BBC Newsnight and KissekattX's channel- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYDVKu...