It is not so much that Rense is "being set up" as that he may be a willing participant in COINTELPRO. Or that is what I gathered from reading the editorial and reading about Laura's experiences with Rense.Ruth said:Yes, it certainly looks like Rense is being set up maybe as some sort of 'tar baby' as Laura suggested.
Yes, and sometimes both sides are COINTELPRO. Confusion and chaos are the results, making it difficult for those seeking truth.Ruth said:I guess its no coincidence that the easiest way for the PTB to cause havoc and strife is to set up groups and individuals against each other. A sort of manipulative 'divide and conquer'.... Well, it works pretty well.
I find this a strange phrase you used, "In his sights". I think this phrase is metaphorically derived from shooting a gun. I did not read anything so violent in the article. There are the facts. Nothing wrong with stating facts, seeing connections, and stating an hypothesis - particularly when defending the truth.Ruth said:The latest editorial seems to suggest that Kurt Nimmo has Rense in his sights.
More metaphorical phrases that are meant to cast the editorial in a negative light without facts to back up assertions, seeming to imply that SotT is attacking Rense. "Kicking someone when they are down" or "jumping into the fray". I did not read this as an attack, rather a calm stating of facts. As far as dangerous, publishing the whole site is dangerous. Truth doesn't have nearly enough support on this planet to protect it and those who publish it.Ruth said:Are the Signs team in danger of 'getting in on the act' too? And, how come? It might be a dangerous thing to buy into.
Sorry about that, let me see if I can unconfuse you...morgan said:Instead, you started the post with something that sounds like you might agree with certain aspects of the editorial, and ended the post with statements that sound like the whole article is some sort of scam. So, I am a bit confused.
Ruth said:Yes, it certainly looks like Rense is being set up maybe as some sort of 'tar baby' as Laura suggested.
I guess its no coincidence that the easiest way for the PTB to cause havoc and strife is to set up groups and individuals against each other. A sort of manipulative 'divide and conquer'.... Well, it works pretty well.
The latest editorial seems to suggest that Kurt Nimmo has Rense in his sights. Are the Signs team in danger of 'getting in on the act' too? And, how come? It might be a dangerous thing to buy into.
Indeed you may be right, although Nimmo does seem to be posing a question... 'Is Rense a crypto-jew or holocaust denier'? Its not like there's much of a choice to between these opinions even if they were generated by other people. Fairly emotive words as well.DonaldJHunt said:I've read Nimmo's editorial three times now and maybe I am missing something, but it seems to be defending Rense. What am I missing?
Ruth said:Indeed you may be right, although Nimmo does seem to be posing a question... 'Is Rense a crypto-jew or holocaust denier'? Its not like there's much of a choice to between these opinions even if they were generated by other people. Fairly emotive words as well.DonaldJHunt said:I've read Nimmo's editorial three times now and maybe I am missing something, but it seems to be defending Rense. What am I missing?
Maybe I'm missing something too, or perhaps I was just looking at the headings!?! I'm finding it rather confusing.
Maybe they think people won't notice or they are trying to confuse people. Or maybe they do this randomly when they need a story to fill up space. Or maybe they have some computer-based algorithm that uses old stories in conjunction with new ones in an attempt to create a certain psychological state in the reader. I have no idea :)anart said:Do they re-run things like this to make it seem like it happened more than once? Is there some hidden effect from leading people to believe a falsehood about an article that will lessen the power of the information provided? If this were a one time thing, it might not have caught my attention but they do this quite a bit. I just wonder if they think people won't notice; if they don't care if people notice or not; or if there is some purpose in providing false dates for events?
Turning off the oxygen of publicity would work IMO if the uncontrollable information firestorm called the Internet did not exist. Since the Internet (which the PTB naively had thought would give them an information monopoly) that method has become the last thing they want to do. Leave the information blaze raging unchecked and it will consume you. Develop controlled fires to use up available oxygen is a viable strategy to the PTB now.RichM said:Now are we to assume that these people are using a reverse psychology in promoting books while appearing to trash them? Surely the best method is surely to "turn off the oxygen of publicity"? Merely entering into an argument suggests that there is a debate to be had. Is the USG really feeling that threatened by books it is so sure are fantasies?
My own comments in that blog post are as follows:[After 1996 was when] the Internet began to take hold of our intellectual lives and conspiracy theories transferred from TV and magazines onto the Net, where - ever since - they appear to have been something of a worry to our masters in Washington.
The existence of the Internet means that it is no longer as easy to control public perception as it was during the good old days of the Cold War, when mass media were fewer and more manageable, newspaper and TV editors could be recruited or bought by the authorities and stories planted with ease in the press.
Recently, the US State Department has begun trying to rebut some of the current conspiracy theories about America. Their first targets were a couple of websites - www.rense.com and Conspiracy Planet - and the late Joe Vialls, an Australian. What a boost for the named sites! Attacked by the State Department![...]
[Y]ou don't have to be a PR genius to see that what you simply mustn't do is launch official attacks: all they do is amplify and legitimise the theories by announcing that they are deemed to be worth attacking. [Fortean Times 206, February 2006, p. 19]
We notice in this latest attack from abovetopsecret.com in conjunction with Wayne Jaeschke of MoFo, it was never intended that we should have a copy of the letter. Based on what our server people did and did NOT say, it seems that among the threats made against them if they did not make sure we removed the letter (published on my blog) from Jaeschke, he would go after them for violating the confidentiality notice at the bottom of the letter. So it's pretty clear that this was supposed to be a stealth attack with no "official sanction." Because, as Ramsay notes above, "official attacks" do nothing but promote the attacked party. We are certain that this is why rense.com is listed as a "misinformation" site.As we have noted several times, the COINTELPRO attacks on us began early in 2001 and consisted of ad hominem attacks rather than dealing with the issues at hand. It was that experience that taught us so much about COINTELPRO. The fact always remains that when people can't find fault with an argument, they will, instead, attack the person by substituting false or irrelevant assertions about the person's character, life, or whatever. Such argumentation is designed to appeal to emotions or prejudices, and people who are ruled by their emotions and prejudices are easy prey. This is part of the "special knowledge" of the psychopath that Lobaczewski refers to above.
Even though, as I noted in an earlier post here, Carol Morello of the Washington Post asserted that our Pentagon Strike video was single-handedly responsible for re-awakening the public interest in the "No-Boeing at the Pentagon" theory first put forward by Thierry Meyssan, never, EVER, have we been frontally attacked by any government agency. Nor will we be. As Ramsay notes above: "[Y]ou don't have to be a PR genius to see that what you simply mustn't do is launch official attacks: all they do is amplify and legitimise the theories by announcing that they are deemed to be worth attacking."
So certainly, we would expect real COINTELPRO operations to be attacked "officially" in order to legitimize them, but those who have figured out the real answers will not be martyred. It's way too dangerous. Keep in mind that we aren't dealing with stupid people here; they have "motivation masters" working 24/7 to manipulate the public. One of their ideas was the now well-known COINTELPRO "Third Party Attack Protocol." This includes setting up bogus groups and operations - sometimes at HUGE expense - in order to not only be a "Tar Baby" but also, when needed, to launch attacks against bona fide groups and or individuals with no one ever suspecting that it is a State Supported attack. The usual method is, of course, ad hominem attacks, spreading lies and rumors, sending letters and emails purporting to be from the attacked group or individual which seem to confirm the lies and rumors, or otherwise painting the attacked individual in a bad light.
We just wonder what will come next? An "official" attack, or a stepped up Third Party Flame Throwing attack? My bet is on the latter.PROTOCOL No. 12 Control of the Press
1. The word "freedom," which can be interpreted in various ways, is defined by us as follows -
2. Freedom is the right to do that which the law allows. This interpretation of the word will at the proper time be of service to us, because all freedom will thus be in our hands, since the laws will abolish or create only that which is desirable for us according to the aforesaid program.
3. We shall deal with the press in the following way: what is the part played by the press to-day? It serves to excite and inflame those passions which are needed for our purpose or else it serves selfish ends of parties. It is often vapid, unjust, mendacious, and the majority of the public have not the slightest idea what ends the press really serves. We shall saddle and bridle it with a tight curb: we shall do the same also with all productions of the printing press, for where would be the sense of getting rid of the attacks of the press if we remain targets for pamphlets and books? The produce of publicity, which nowadays is a source of heavy expense owing to the necessity of censoring it, will be turned by us into a very lucrative source of income to our State: we shall lay on it a special stamp tax and require deposits of caution-money before permitting the establishment of any organ of the press or of printing offices; these will then have to guarantee our government against any kind of attack on the part of the press.
For any attempt to attack us, if such still be possible, we shall inflict fines without mercy. Such measures as stamp tax, deposit of caution-money and fines secured by these deposits, will bring in a huge income to the government. It is true that party organs might not spare money for the sake of publicity, but these we shall shut up at the second attack upon us. No one shall with impunity lay a finger on the aureole of our government infallibility. The pretext for stopping any publication will be the alleged plea that it is agitating the public mind without occasion or justification. I BEG YOU TO NOTE THAT AMONG THOSE MAKING ATTACKS UPON US WILL ALSO BE ORGANS ESTABLISHED BY US, BUT THEY WILL ATTACK EXCLUSIVELY POINTS THAT WE HAVE PRE-DETERMINED TO ALTER. WE CONTROL THE PRESS
4. NOT A SINGLE ANNOUNCEMENT WILL REACH THE PUBLIC WITHOUT OUR CONTROL. Even now this is already being attained by us inasmuch as all news items are received by a few agencies, in whose offices they are focused from all parts of the world. These agencies will then be already entirely ours and will give publicity only to what we dictate to them.
5. If already now we have contrived to possess ourselves of the minds of the GOY communities to such an extent the they all come near looking upon the events of the world through the colored glasses of those spectacles we are setting astride their noses; if already now there is not a single State where there exist for us any barriers to admittance into what GOY stupidity calls State secrets: what will our positions be then, when we shall be acknowledged supreme lords of the world in the person of our king of all the world ....
6. Let us turn again to the FUTURE OF THE PRINTING PRESS. Every one desirous of being a publisher, librarian, or printer, will be obliged to provide himself with the diploma instituted therefore, which, in case of any fault, will be immediately impounded. With such measures THE INSTRUMENT OF THOUGHT WILL BECOME AN EDUCATIVE MEANS ON THE HANDS OF OUR GOVERNMENT, WHICH WILL NO LONGER ALLOW THE MASS OF THE NATION TO BE LED ASTRAY IN BY-WAYS AND FANTASIES ABOUT THE BLESSINGS OF PROGRESS. Is there any one of us who does not know that these phantom blessings are the direct roads to foolish imaginings which give birth to anarchical relations of men among themselves and towards authority, because progress, or rather the idea of progress, has introduced the conception of every kind of emancipation, but has failed to establish its limits .... All the so-called liberals are anarchists, if not in fact, at any rate in thought. Every one of them in hunting after phantoms of freedom, and falling exclusively into license, that is, into the anarchy of protest for the sake of protest....
7. We turn to the periodical press. We shall impose on it, as on all printed matter, stamp taxes per sheet and deposits of caution-money, and books of less than 30 sheets will pay double. We shall reckon them as pamphlets in order, on the one hand, to reduce the number of magazines, which are the worst form of printed poison, and, on the other, in order that this measure may force writers into such lengthy productions that they will be little read, especially as they will be costly. At the same time what we shall publish ourselves to influence mental development in the direction laid down for our profit will be cheap and will be read voraciously. The tax will bring vapid literary ambitions within bounds and the liability to penalties will make literary men dependent upon us. And if there should be any found who are desirous of writing against us, they will not find any person eager to print their productions. Before accepting any production for publication in print, the publisher or printer will have to apply to the authorities for permission to do so. Thus we shall know beforehand of all tricks preparing against us and shall nullify them by getting ahead with explanations on the subject treated of.
8. Literature and journalism are two of the most important educative forces, and therefore our government will become proprietor of the majority of the journals. This will neutralize the injurious influence of the privately-owned press and will put us in possession of a tremendous influence upon the public mind .... If we give permits for ten journals, we shall ourselves found thirty, and so on in the same proportion. This, however, must in no wise be suspected by the public. For which reason all journals published by us will be of the most opposite, in appearance, tendencies and opinions, thereby creating confidence in us and bringing over to us quite unsuspicious opponents, who will thus fall into our trap and be rendered harmless.
9. In the front rank will stand organs of an official character. They will always stand guard over our interests, and therefore their influence will be comparatively insignificant.
10. In the second rank will be the semi-official organs, whose part it will be to attack the tepid and indifferent.
11. In the third rank we shall set up our own, to all appearance, opposition, which, in at least one of its organs, will present what looks like the very antipodes to us. Our real opponents at heart will accept this simulated opposition as their own and will show us their cards.
12. All our newspapers will be of all possible complexions -- aristocratic, republican, revolutionary, even anarchical - for so long, of course, as the constitution exists .... Like the Indian idol "Vishnu" they will have a hundred hands, and every one of them will have a finger on any one of the public opinions as required. When a pulse quickens these hands will lead opinion in the direction of our aims, for an excited patient loses all power of judgment and easily yields to suggestion. Those fools who will think they are repeating the opinion of a newspaper of their own camp will be repeating our opinion or any opinion that seems desirable for us. In the vain belief that they are following the organ of their party they will, in fact, follow the flag which we hang out for them.
13. In order to direct our newspaper militia in this sense we must take special and minute care in organizing this matter. Under the title of central department of the press we shall institute literary gatherings at which our agents will without attracting attention issue the orders and watchwords of the day. By discussing and controverting, but always superficially, without touching the essence of the matter, our organs will carry on a sham fight fusillade with the official newspapers solely for the purpose of giving occasion for us to express ourselves more fully than could well be done from the outset in official announcements, whenever, of course, that is to our advantage.
14. THESE ATTACKS UPON US WILL ALSO SERVE ANOTHER PURPOSE, NAMELY, THAT OUR SUBJECTS WILL BE CONVINCED TO THE EXISTENCE OF FULL FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND SO GIVE OUR AGENTS AN OCCASION TO AFFIRM THAT ALL ORGANS WHICH OPPOSE US ARE EMPTY BABBLERS, since they are incapable of finding any substantial objections to our orders. ONLY LIES WILL BE PRINTED
15. Methods of organization like these, imperceptible to the public eye but absolutely sure, are the best calculated to succeed in bringing the attention and the confidence of the public to the side of our government. Thanks to such methods we shall be in a position as from time to time may be required, to excite or to tranquillize the public mind on political questions, to persuade or to confuse, printing now truth, now lies, facts or their contradictions, according as they may be well or ill received, always very cautiously feeling our ground before stepping upon it ....
WE SHALL HAVE A SURE TRIUMPH OVER OUR OPPONENTS SINCE THEY WILL NOT HAVE AT THEIR DISPOSITION ORGANS OF THE PRESS IN WHICH THEY CAN GIVE FULL AND FINAL EXPRESSION TO THEIR VIEWS owing to the aforesaid methods of dealing with the press. We shall not even need to refute them except very superficially.
16. Trial shots like these, fired by us in the third rank of our press, in case of need, will be energetically refuted by us in our semi-official organs.
17. Even nowadays, already, to take only the French press, there are forms which reveal masonic solidarity in acting on the watchword: all organs of the press are bound together by professional secrecy; like the augurs of old, not one of their numbers will give away the secret of his sources of information unless it be resolved to make announcement of them. Not one journalist will venture to betray this secret, for not one of them is ever admitted to practice literature unless his whole past has some disgraceful sore or other .... These sores would be immediately revealed. So long as they remain the secret of a few the prestige of the journalist attacks the majority of the country - the mob follow after him with enthusiasm.
18. Our calculations are especially extended to the provinces. It is indispensable for us to inflame there those hopes and impulses with which we could at any moment fall upon the capital, and we shall represent to the capitals that these expressions are the independent hopes and impulses of the provinces. Naturally, the source of them will be always one and the same - ours.
WHAT WE NEED IS THAT, UNTIL SUCH TIME AS WE ARE IN THE PLENITUDE POWER, THE CAPITALS SHOULD FIND THEMSELVES STIFLED BY THE PROVINCIAL OPINION OF THE NATIONS, I.E., OF A MAJORITY ARRANGED BY OUR AGENTUR. What we need is that at the psychological moment the capitals should not be in a position to discuss an accomplished fact for the simple reason, if for no other, that it has been accepted by the public opinion of a majority in the provinces.
19. WHEN WE ARE IN THE PERIOD OF THE NEW REGIME TRANSITIONAL TO THAT OF OUR ASSUMPTION OF FULL SOVEREIGNTY WE MUST NOT ADMIT ANY REVELATION BY THE PRESS OF ANY FORM OF PUBLIC DISHONESTY; IT IS NECESSARY THAT THE NEW REGIME SHOULD BE THOUGHT TO HAVE SO PERFECTLY CONTENDED EVERYBODY THAT EVEN CRIMINALITY HAS DISAPPEARED ... Cases of the manifestation of criminality should remain known only to their victims and to chance witnesses - no more.
That point is well made - didn't Chomsky write about "the threat of the good example"? (admittedly in the context of emerging states trying to throw off the shackles of US corporate dependency).EsoQuest said:To these people the absolutely WORST thing that can happen is that Cassiopaea will set an example for others to follow, because if that happens they will have far more than they can deal counter with the tactics they are using. It is not farfetched that they are trying to find ways to take their infowars to the next level, whatever that may be.