Jesus and The Pauline Timeline

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

Yeah, and it's also important to keep in mind that Laura, primarily, and the whole forum as a supporting team, do a HUGE amount of research. The C's are the inspiration for the direction of the research (in addition to Laura's burning interests and curiosity). Casey and many others never did that kind of in-depth research, so the hints given by the C's became great discoveries from Laura's followup research and not just what the C's have said. The process isn't over, so we'll have to see what else is discovered and the dots connected to get a better picture.

For me personally, at this point, it's quite clear and acceptable about the Caesar-Jesus connection. I'm just waiting for all the data being analyzed about all the other details that Laura's working on. It's one heck of a puzzle to solve all the falsified aspects of our history and very important work.

 

[cliftonedward]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

I appreciate the last two responses. However, despite their well mounted defense of the previous comments, the mystery still remains. There is always more to learn, discover, and correlate. :)

 

[Laura]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

I'm still trying to make the correct connection to the name Jesinavarah. Is that the stoic philosopher? The stoic reference feels like something. It like, ah ha! So, there IS someone that perhaps Christians can hang a hat on. And the stoic comment is indeed a specific C statement. It has no doubt created a huge pondering that I can't seem to satisfy.

I'm certainly ok with Caesar being Jesus. That's the only thing that really does make sense. But, I'm obviously perplexed by the readings of Cayce who is accurate on so many other things. :)

I've been thinking about it too. There's an interesting book by Hugh Schonfield called "The Essene Odyssey" where he gathers some evidence (some of it better than the rest) and speculates on the identity of the mid 2nd century BC "Righteous Teacher" of Essene literature. If I was going to put my money on anybody with the moniker "Jesinavarh ben Marhnok", that would be him.

On the other hand, with the plethora of "messiahs" running around all over the place as recounted by Josephus, no reason we couldn't have a hitherto unknown character from 1st century Palestine, particularly in the Galilee/Gamala areas who went about like a cynic.

Then, of course, there was one of the characters that Josephus described who just struck me as a terribly tragic figure; the guy's name was actually Jesus (i.e. Yeshua or possibly even an Aramaic variation like Jesinvarah). So, here's the story:

But before Caesar had determined any thing about these people, or given the commanders any orders relating to them, the soldiers were in such a rage, that they set that cloister on fire; by which means it came to pass that some of these were destroyed by throwing themselves down headlong, and some were burnt in the cloisters themselves. Nor did any one of them escape with his life. A false prophet was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made a public proclamation in the city that very day, that God commanded them to get upon the temple, and that there they should receive miraculous signs of their deliverance.

Now there was then a great number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants {Rebel leaders using prophecy and messianic beliefs} to impose on the people, who denounced this to them, that they should wait for deliverance from God; and this was in order to keep them from deserting, and that they might be buoyed up above fear and care by such hopes. Now a man that is in adversity does easily comply with such promises; for when such a seducer makes him believe that he shall be delivered from those miseries which oppress him, then it is that the patient is full of hopes of such his deliverance.

3. Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them.

Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year. Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it.

At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them.

Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities.

Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence."

But, what is still more terrible, there was one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman, who, four years before the war began, and at a time when the city was in very great peace and prosperity, came to that feast whereon it is our custom for every one to make tabernacles to God in the temple, began on a sudden to cry aloud, "A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!" {Sound familiar from the Olivet Discourse???}

This was his cry, as he went about by day and by night, in all the lanes of the city. However, certain of the most eminent among the populace had great indignation at this dire cry of his, and took up the man, and gave him a great number of severe stripes; yet did not he either say any thing for himself, or any thing peculiar to those that chastised him, {Sound familiar?} but still went on with the same words which he cried before. Hereupon our rulers, supposing, as the case proved to be, that this was a sort of divine fury in the man, brought him to the Roman procurator, {Still sounding familiar, eh?} where he was whipped till his bones were laid bare; yet he did not make any supplication for himself, nor shed any tears, but turning his voice to the most lamentable tone possible, at every stroke of the whip his answer was, "Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" And when Albinus [for he was then our procurator] asked him, Who he was? and whence he came? and why he uttered such words? he made no manner of reply to what he said, but still did not leave off his melancholy ditty, till Albinus took him to be a madman, and dismissed him.

Now, during all the time that passed before the war began, this man did not go near any of the citizens, nor was seen by them while he said so; but he every day uttered these lamentable words, as if it were his premeditated vow, "Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" Nor did he give ill words to any of those that beat him every day, nor good words to those that gave him food; but this was his reply to all men, and indeed no other than a melancholy presage of what was to come. This cry of his was the loudest at the festivals; and he continued this ditty for seven years and five months, without growing hoarse, or being tired therewith, until the very time that he saw his presage in earnest fulfilled in our siege, when it ceased; for as he was going round upon the wall, he cried out with his utmost force, "Woe, woe to the city again, and to the people, and to the holy house!" And just as he added at the last, "Woe, woe to myself also!" there came a stone out of one of the engines, and smote him, and killed him immediately; and as he was uttering the very same presages he gave up the ghost. (Wars 6.5.2-3)

 

[cliftonedward]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

Gosh, that person seems like a good place to hang the Jesinavarh/Jesus hat to me. At least at this point in time. And those specific parts DO sound very familiar. Extremely interesting! I also took notice of the star in the story that seemed like a sword. And I couldn't help but think it might also look like a cross. This has been extremely helpful to my contemplation. :)

 

[Laura]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

Gosh, that person seems like a good place to hang the Jesinavarh/Jesus hat to me. At least at this point in time. And those specific parts DO sound very familiar. Extremely interesting! I also took notice of the star in the story that seemed like a sword. And I couldn't help but think it might also look like a cross. This has been extremely helpful to my contemplation. :)

There is so, SO much more. If you just read Josephus, Tacitus and Philo and then read Paul's letters in the proper order, keeping in mind that Paul's letters are the EARLIEST "Christian" literature in existence, everything begins to look rather more interesting.

I've more or less abandoned the "Q Hypothesis" with their "cynic substrate". I've also been convinced that there are actually 10 authentic letters of Paul, written in this order:

Ist Thessalonians
IInd Thessalonians
Laodiceans (erroneously named Ephesians)
Colossians
Philemon
Ist Corinthians
IInd Corinthians
Galatians
Philippians
Romans

Also, it's a good idea to just completely toss out the Gospels and Acts as being anything other than romantic fiction. You will notice how much of Paul reappeared much later as words put into Jesus' mouth, not to mention events of Paul's life, events of the lives of numerous "messiahs" described by Josephus.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

I've more or less abandoned the "Q Hypothesis" with their "cynic substrate".

Yes. After reading Goodacre's "Case Against Q" and MacEwen's "Matthean Posteriority" I'm amazed that Q has the common acceptance that it does. It's just astounding the leaps of logic that it takes to get there. I don't think there's a 100% 'in-the-bag' solution to the Synoptic problem (at least, it hasn't been presented that way just yet), but I'm leaning towards this:

Mark + Marcion > Luke > Matthew

OR

Mark + Marcion > Matthew > Luke

The latter might account for the evidence suggesting that Matthew used Luke AND the evidence that Luke used Matthew. Matthew knew the bits of "Luke" that were already present in Marcion. Luke just rounded it out with the birth stories, the resurrection appearances, and a few pericopae here and there. But so far, no one has done an in-depth analysis of this sort using the data from Marcion.

I've also been convinced that there are actually 10 authentic letters of Paul, written in this order:

Ist Thessalonians
IInd Thessalonians
Laodiceans (erroneously named Ephesians)
Colossians
Philemon
Ist Corinthians
IInd Corinthians
Galatians
Philippians
Romans

And notice the order that Marcion put the letters in his gospel. The second identifiable grouping of 6 letters is in perfect chronological order: 1 Thess, 2 Thess, Laod, Col, Phlm, Phil (BeDuhn gets it wrong, switching Phlm and Phil, but the attested order has Phil last). The only oddity is how the collection begins: Gal, 1 Cor, 2 Cor, Rom. Was this an original 4-letter collection as Trobisch proposes? Was it in chronological order? Did Marcion 'frontload' the collection with Galatians, moving it from a different position? Was Romans originally first, making it a sort of reverse-chronological order? Or something else?

What is amazing about reading the letters in this order is the implicit story that comes out. Paul is constantly fighting subversion of his churches, but by the last 4 letters he's on the warpath. The James group is actively working to destroy all his work, after they came to an agreement of sorts. The James group treacherously betrayed Paul.

I just found out that Hollywood is doing a Paul movie, with Hugh Jackman as Paul. No doubt it will be some Acts rehash whitewash, but it would be awesome to see the story as it actually happened (or close enough for horseshoes)!

Also, it's a good idea to just completely toss out the Gospels and Acts as being anything other than romantic fiction. You will notice how much of Paul reappeared much later as words put into Jesus' mouth, not to mention events of Paul's life, events of the lives of numerous "messiahs" described by Josephus.

Yeah, if anything, those books should be looked at as stories written by people interpreting, reinventing, reinterpreting Paul and other points of view. Even if there were some kernels of good information about Paul NOT present in his letters (but passed down through the intervening generations), there's no way to verify them and no good clues to truly tease out the wheat from the chaff. At least that's my cynical view at the moment. ;)

 

[Laura]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

Yeah, if anything, those books should be looked at as stories written by people interpreting, reinventing, reinterpreting Paul and other points of view. Even if there were some kernels of good information about Paul NOT present in his letters (but passed down through the intervening generations), there's no way to verify them and no good clues to truly tease out the wheat from the chaff. At least that's my cynical view at the moment. ;)

Yes, it's hard not to get really cynical after reading a few hundred weighty tomes by the alleged experts. But lordy, lordy, how one's mind does expand when picking up a tidbit here and there of REAL value. And there is quite a bit.

For example, in Hugh Schonfield's "Essene Odyssey", he talks about a governing body of the Essenes consisting of three individuals, which makes one think of the "three pillars" of the "church" that Paul knew as Peter (Cephas?) James and John. This then leads one to think of the three con artists written about in the Fulvia Story in Josephus which goes as follows:

5. There was a man who was a Jew, but had been driven away from his own country by an accusation laid against him for transgressing their laws, and by the fear he was under of punishment for the same; but in all respects a wicked man. He, then living at Rome, professed to instruct men in the wisdom of the laws of Moses. He procured also three other men, entirely of the same character with himself, to be his partners. These men persuaded Fulvia, a woman of great dignity, and one that had embraced the Jewish religion, to send purple and gold to the temple at Jerusalem; and when they had gotten them, they employed them for their own uses, and spent the money themselves, on which account it was that they at first required it of her. Whereupon Tiberius, who had been informed of the thing by Saturninus, the husband of Fulvia, who desired inquiry might be made about it, ordered all the Jews to be banished out of Rome; at which time the consuls listed four thousand men out of them, and sent them to the island Sardinia; but punished a greater number of them, who were unwilling to become soldiers, on account of keeping the laws of their forefathers. 11 Thus were these Jews banished out of the city by the wickedness of four men. (18.5.5)

This little tale, following just after the Testimonium Flavianum, poses a number of interesting problems. Tacitus records the banishing of Jews in the reign of Tiberius as being in 19 AD as follows:

Measures were also taken for
exterminating the solemnities of the Jews and Egyptians; and by decree
of Senate four thousand descendants of franchised slaves, all defiled
with that superstition, but of proper strength and age, were to be
transported to Sardinia; to restrain the Sardinian robbers; and if,
through the malignity of the climate, they perished, despicable would be
the loss: the rest were doomed to depart Italy, unless by a stated day
they renounced their profane rites.

So there is confirmation of the banishing, but what about this happening, as Josephus says, due to the "wickedness of four men"??

What four men? Possibly Paul aided by the messianic stories of the Three Pillars, Peter, James and John?

Is it possible that Paul and the James gang could have been operating THAT early? Obviously, it wouldn't matter to Josephus whether Paul and the gang were at each other's throats, all Josephus would see would be rabble rousing revolutionaries promoting a tall tale. Notice how he refers to the messianists in the previous quote. To Josephus, they were all robbers, pirates, brigands, tyrants, etc, leading people to rebel against Rome and get themselves killed and Jerusalem destroyed.

Yes, Josephus has a lot to hide because, according to his autobiography, he tried joining the Essenes himself when he was young and hung out with a John the Baptist type whose name, interestingly, was a translation of "Bath". When the Romans won, (or perhaps before, hard to say), Josephus completely turned and became convinced (or at least said it), that the Jewish god was on the side of the Romans because the Jews had been so wicked in rebelling.

So that little story, placed as it is following an equally puzzling story that might be another part of Josephus delivering a coded message, really sets the antennae going especially because of the name FULVIA who was, ultimately, responsible for the funeral rites of Julius Caesar and may even have penned a little commemorative "passion play" that later was redacted into the gospel of Mark.

 

[Laura]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

Notice that in the previous quote from Tacitus, he mentions that the senate went after not just the Jews, but also the Egyptian worship. Josephus, on the other hand, writes in the story just previous to the Fulvia tale:

4. About the same time also another sad calamity put the Jews into disorder, and certain shameful practices happened about the temple of Isis that was at Rome. I will now first take notice of the wicked attempt about the temple of Isis, and will then give an account of the Jewish affairs.

There was at Rome a woman whose name was Paulina; one who, on account of the dignity of her ancestors, and by the regular conduct of a virtuous life, had a great reputation: she was also very rich; and although she was of a beautiful countenance, and in that flower of her age wherein women are the most gay, yet did she lead a life of great modesty. She was married to Saturninus, one that was every way answerable to her in an excellent character.

Decius Mundus fell in love with this woman, who was a man very high in the equestrian order; and as she was of too great dignity to be caught by presents, and had already rejected them, though they had been sent in great abundance, he was still more inflamed with love to her, insomuch that he promised to give her two hundred thousand Attic drachmae for one night's lodging; and when this would not prevail upon her, and he was not able to bear this misfortune in his amours, he thought it the best way to famish himself to death for want of food, on account of Paulina's sad refusal; and he determined with himself to die after such a manner, and he went on with his purpose accordingly.

Now Mundus had a freed-woman, who had been made free by his father, whose name was Ide, one skillful in all sorts of mischief. This woman was very much grieved at the young man's resolution to kill himself, [for he did not conceal his intentions to destroy himself from others,] and came to him, and encouraged him by her discourse, and made him to hope, by some promises she gave him, that he might obtain a night's lodging with Paulina; and when he joyfully hearkened to her entreaty, she said she wanted no more than fifty thousand drachmae for the entrapping of the woman.

So when she had encouraged the young man, and gotten as much money as she required, she did not take the same methods as had been taken before, because she perceived that the woman was by no means to be tempted by money; but as she knew that she was very much given to the worship of the goddess Isis, she devised the following stratagem: She went to some of Isis's priests, and upon the strongest assurances [of concealment], she persuaded them by words, but chiefly by the offer of money, of twenty-five thousand drachmae in hand, and as much more when the thing had taken effect; and told them the passion of the young man, and persuaded them to use all means possible to beguile the woman. So they were drawn in to promise so to do, by that large sum of gold they were to have.

Accordingly, the oldest of them went immediately to Paulina; and upon his admittance, he desired to speak with her by herself. When that was granted him, he told her that he was sent by the god Anubis, who was fallen in love with her, and enjoined her to come to him. Upon this she took the message very kindly, and valued herself greatly upon this condescension of Anubis, and told her husband that she had a message sent her, and was to sup and lie with Anubis; so he agreed to her acceptance of the offer, as fully satisfied with the chastity of his wife.

Accordingly, she went to the temple, and after she had supped there, and it was the hour to go to sleep, the priest shut the doors of the temple, when, in the holy part of it, the lights were also put out. Then did Mundus leap out, [for he was hidden therein,] and did not fail of enjoying her, who was at his service all the night long, as supposing he was the god; and when he was gone away, which was before those priests who knew nothing of this stratagem were stirring, Paulina came early to her husband, and told him how the god Anubis had appeared to her. Among her friends, also, she declared how great a value she put upon this favor, who partly disbelieved the thing, when they reflected on its nature, and partly were amazed at it, as having no pretense for not believing it, when they considered the modesty and the dignity of the person.

But now, on the third day after what had been done, Mundus met Paulina, and said, "Nay, Paulina, thou hast saved me two hundred thousand drachmae, which sum thou mightest have added to thy own family; yet hast thou not failed to be at my service in the manner I invited thee. As for the reproaches thou hast laid upon Mundus, I value not the business of names; but I rejoice in the pleasure I reaped by what I did, while I took to myself the name of Anubis." When he had said this, he went his way.

But now she began to come to the sense of the grossness of what she had done, and rent her garments, and told her husband of the horrid nature of this wicked contrivance, and prayed him not to neglect to assist her in this case. So he discovered the fact to the emperor; whereupon Tiberius inquired into the matter thoroughly by examining the priests about it, and ordered them to be crucified, as well as Ide, who was the occasion of their perdition, and who had contrived the whole matter, which was so injurious to the woman. He also demolished the temple of Isis, and gave order that her statue should be thrown into the river Tiber; while he only banished Mundus, but did no more to him, because he supposed that what crime he had committed was done out of the passion of love. And these were the circumstances which concerned the temple of Isis, and the injuries occasioned by her priests. I now return to the relation of what happened about this time to the Jews at Rome, as I formerly told you I would.

Just consider the names alone: "Ide" - as in "Ides of March"??? "Paulina"??? There was no Roman name "Paulina". "Decius Mundus"? Decius, the name of the famous Roman self-sacrificing hero: "The gens Decia was a plebeian family of high antiquity, which became illustrious in Roman history by two of its members sacrificing themselves for the preservation of their country." Not valuing the "business of names" but taking to himself the name of a god for immoral purposes?

Notice that Fulvia and Paulina are both married to a Saturninus.

Gaius Sentius Saturninus (fl. late 1st century BC – 1st century AD) was a Roman senator and military officer who was appointed Roman consul in 19 BC. In around 14/13 BC, Sentius Saturninus was appointed the proconsular governor of Africa. From 9 BC – 7 BC Sentius Saturninus served as Legatus Augusti pro praetore (or imperial governor) of the Roman province of Syria.

During his time as governor of Syria, he was caught up in the intrigues of the Herodian family. Following instructions from Augustus, he convened a council to be held at Berytus to rule on accusations of treason made by Herod the Great against his sons Aristobulus and Alexander. Sentius Saturninus suggested a ruling of mercy, supported by his staff which included Saturninus' three sons, who were his legates. However, the procurator voted against Herod's sons, to which the majority of the council agreed with, resulting in Herod’s sons being condemned and executed.

Tertullian (c.160 - 225AD), the Christian law expert from Carthage in North Africa, wrote that Jesus was born while Gaius Sentius Saturninus was Legate of Roman Syria.

Described as energetic and valorous by Marcus Velleius Paterculus, Sentius Saturninus was a member of the Quindecimviri sacris faciundis. He had three sons, two of whom reached the consulate: Gaius Sentius Saturninus (consul in AD 4) and Gnaeus Sentius Saturninus, consul in AD 5. His third son was Lucius Sentius Saturninus, who disappears from the historical record after his father’s governorship of Syria.

The son who was consul in AD5, replaced Gnaeus Calpurnius Piso as governor of Syria in 19 AD and compelled him to return to Rome to stand trial for the murder of Germanicus Caesar.

All in all, going along with what I've already written about Pontius Pilate being in Palestine from 14 to 19 AD at the most, it is really beginning to look like the Testimonium Flavianum is pasted over something else MUCH MORE INTERESTING.

 

[Laura]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

Now, here is the story from Tacitus that I think the Paulina/Saturninus story is based on; that is, from where some of the novelistic elements were derived.

About the same time Octavius Sagitta, a tribune of the people, who
was enamoured to frenzy of Pontia, a married woman, bribed her by most
costly presents into an intrigue and then into abandoning her husband.
He had offered her marriage and had won her consent. But as soon as
she was free, she devised delays, pretended that her father's wishes
were against it, and having secured the prospect of a richer
husband, she repudiated her promises.

Octavius, on the other hand, now
remonstrated, now threatened; his good name, he protested, was lost,
his means exhausted, and as for his life, which was all that was
left to him, he surrendered it to her mercy.

When she spurned him,
he asked the solace of one night, with which to soothe his passion,
that he might set bounds to it for the future. A night was fixed,
and Pontia intrusted the charge of her chamber to a female slave
acquainted with her secret. Octavius attended by one freedman
entered with a dagger concealed under his dress. Then, as usual in
lovers' quarrels, there were chidings, entreaties, reproaches,
excuses, and some period of the darkness was given up to passion;
then, when seemingly about to go, and she was fearing nothing, he
stabbed her with the steel, and having wounded and scared away the
slave girl who was hurrying to her, rushed out of the chamber.

Next day the murder was notorious, and there was no question as to the
murderer, for it was proved that he had passed some time with her. The
freedman, however, declared the deed was his, that he had, in fact,
avenged his patron's wrongs. He had made some impression by the
nobleness of his example, when the slave girl recovered and revealed
the truth. Octavius, when he ceased to be tribune, was prosecuted
before the consuls by the father of the murdered woman, and was
condemned by the sentence of the Senate under "the law concerning
assassins." (Annales 13.44-45)

What's the rub on this one? In Tacitus, the event he recounted occurred in 58 AD.

Obviously, it must have been something of a big scandal and stuck in Josephus' mind to be pulled out, decomposed, reworked in his own way for his own purposes.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

This Tacitus story about Fulvia would make a lot of sense if it was actually inspired by events in 49, then retrojected to 19:

5. There was a man who was a Jew, but had been driven away from his own country by an accusation laid against him for transgressing their laws,

This is the slur directed at Paul in Acts.

and by the fear he was under of punishment for the same; but in all respects a wicked man.

If Eisenmann is right, this is how the James gang perceived Paul.

He, then living at Rome, professed to instruct men in the wisdom of the laws of Moses.

Paul at Rome teaching his version of Judaism, as apostle to the Gentiles? It wouldn't be the laws of Moses per se if he was accused of transgressing the laws.

He procured also three other men, entirely of the same character with himself, to be his partners.

Could be the pillars, or just 3 of Paul's fellow helpers (e.g., Timothy and others), but the 3 is suggestive.

These men persuaded Fulvia, a woman of great dignity, and one that had embraced the Jewish religion, to send purple and gold to the temple at Jerusalem;

Sounds like a variation on the collection gathered for Jerusalem by Paul and his churches.

and when they had gotten them, they employed them for their own uses, and spent the money themselves, on which account it was that they at first required it of her.

Did Paul make that final 3rd trip to Jerusalem? If not, this is exactly what they would say about him. The slander had already been going around before writing Romans that there were selfish ulterior motives for the collection. Paul was in a double-bind. Either go to Jerusalem with the money and risk getting lynched, or continue his mission and have his character assassinated.

Whereupon Tiberius, who had been informed of the thing by Saturninus, the husband of Fulvia, who desired inquiry might be made about it, ordered all the Jews to be banished out of Rome; at which time the consuls listed four thousand men out of them, and sent them to the island Sardinia; but punished a greater number of them, who were unwilling to become soldiers, on account of keeping the laws of their forefathers. 11 Thus were these Jews banished out of the city by the wickedness of four men. (18.5.5)

I think the elements are definitely suggestive, but can we trust Josephus to give us a reliably dated piece of information here? Seems to me he could just be using a motif from Paul's life and putting it in the time of Tiberius?

 

[Wyatt Shipley]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

Yes, Josephus has a lot to hide because, according to his autobiography, he tried joining the Essenes himself when he was young and hung out with a John the Baptist type whose name, interestingly, was a translation of "Bath". When the Romans won, (or perhaps before, hard to say), Josephus completely turned and became convinced (or at least said it), that the Jewish god was on the side of the Romans because the Jews had been so wicked in rebelling.

So that little story, placed as it is following an equally puzzling story that might be another part of Josephus delivering a coded message, really sets the antennae going especially because of the name FULVIA who was, ultimately, responsible for the funeral rites of Julius Caesar and may even have penned a little commemorative "passion play" that later was redacted into the gospel of Mark.

Wyatt Here: Charles Lutwidge Dodgson published "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" formally titled "Alice's Adventures UnderGround" in 1865. From that point on generations after generations read the short book, but wonderfully illustrated, talked about it, speculated that the 4th Dimension would allow such things, commented about it and in many cases referred to it because obviously, everybody knew the story. In 1871, Lewis Carroll in response to Mathematicians (as was Carroll at Oxford) he published "Through The Looking Glass, and What Alice Found There". Many found both Books entertaining and Dodgson found his alias had been revealed and his quiet life invaded by admirers, much to his shock and dismay. Fast-forward 120-years and this generation may know of the title, but very few claim to have read the book (books) or even know or care about the story. So sad, sad indeed.

2000-years ago, stories were written and eventually translated and what does this have to do with the above paragraph? It does seem that we don't really know who wrote what, but we do know the actual name Alice Liddell and Lewis Carroll, not that Charles wanted it that way. Both the Bible and both of Lewis Carroll's books contain miracles, seemingly implausible, but there they are none-the-less. They both have strong central characters who face death, "OFF With Her Head" shouted the queen of Hearts and the Christian Symbol for a Roman torture device. There was Josephus and Alexander Woolcott who declared, "Everything has befallen Alice, except the last thing -- Psychoanalysis". (Like to do a little of that regarding the character Jesus.) Of course people searched for coded messages in the Alice series because Dodgson was a Mathematician and speculating about the 4th Dimension was popular back then (Remember, Alchemist needed 4-D for chemical reactions).
responsible for the funeral rites of Julius Caesar and may even have penned a little commemorative "passion play" that later was redacted into the gospel of Mark. And likewise, how many movies have been made about Alice? Solomon’s statement that “there is nothing new under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 1:9). The phrase exists in two versions: as nihil novi sub sole (nothing new under the sun), from the Vulgate, and as nihil novi nisi commune consensu (nothing new unless by the common consensus), (nothing of the new,
If a Cobbled together group of fables are needed to maintain social order, what of it? And if said Fables work out splendidly, all the better for terrestrial government (NWO) and the Controllers. In Fact, (to me) it does seem that a large majority of Organic Portals are attracted to this "Something For Nothing" belief system. Don't question, Do not research, Do not look for Errors and most important Support the Elitist Mind-set of "I Me Mine." There is free-will, though I wonder who would believe the Dictates of such an obvious Cultic Religion?
Sure; I enjoy doing research and I support your possible intention of publishing a book about Julius C and all, but I GOTTA tell yuh, "The Fundie Christians won't like it. I remember buying "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and HoBoy did the Fanatical Christians raise a storm, which might have been a good thing, because the book became a Best Seller. And so it goes Laura, Isolated Events seem to be coming together for this summer. Who knows? Maybe the poop will kinda - sorta hit the fan-Sheesh-Bikers in Texas having a shoot-out--give me a break!
Best of Everything Always, Wyatt https://cassiopaea.org/forum/Smileys/default/smoking.gifhttps://cassiopaea.org/forum/Smileys/default/lkjread.gif

 

[Laura]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

I think the elements are definitely suggestive, but can we trust Josephus to give us a reliably dated piece of information here? Seems to me he could just be using a motif from Paul's life and putting it in the time of Tiberius?

Well, notice that he's giving "coded" information. And, according to Schonfield, that was entirely in keeping with the activities of the Essenes/Zealots/Zadokites. Josephus saw himself as a real historian after the truth. At least as far as he could tell it and stay alive.

His first book, "Wars", was written under heavy scrutiny and he undoubtedly did a LOT of covering up of his own activities or shifted responsibilities, or ascribed different motives for things. He was also busy covering up for his masters, the Flavians, making them look good. That doesn't mean that he wasn't basically sticking to the events and order of events because there were readers that would call him on things otherwise.

Years after, he wrote "Antiquities" and there is much discussion about the differences between "Wars" and the later work. It seems pretty clear that he was servicing a slightly different agenda. Then he wrote his bio and I think that was published pretty much a piece with "Antiquities". He claims that he tried all the philosophies, but eventually chose the Pharisees... that HE was a pharisee. Well, it seems pretty clear from the events and his activities that he was one of the rebel leaders that he denounces so viciously over and over again, though he claims that "they made me do it!" and offers covert reasons for going along with things - that he was constantly trying to persuade people to give up their "innovations". Yeah, right.

So, all the while he is blowing smoke over some things, he IS trying to write an entertaining, apologetic history that is real history - at least as far as he can go.

So, considering the time he was writing, I sort of suspect that he KNEW Paul, or at least knew of him, and may have been simply indicating the time of the beginnings of certain trends and the source of those trends (Paul) by telling these stories. I don't think he really meant that Paul was in Rome that early, but that his particular "heresy" and activity began at that point in time, the time of Pontius Pilate in Judea and the death of Germanicus, etc.

What all that suggests is that there was something about 19 AD that has been rather thoroughly effaced from the record. There was the death of Germanicus which was a great tragedy felt by everyone who saw him as the new Julius Caesar/Messiah. But perhaps, it was also the time of the execution of some other Judean individual who was then claimed to have been seen by the Essene/James Gang peeps, and these claims were used to keep up the faith and rejection of the Roman rule. It may be that Josephus was indicating the "arising of the three pillars of Jerusalem", Peter, James and John, at that time, touting and tootling their messiah.

None of it is simple. You simply see elements here and there scattered through time and space and when each of them are picked out and lifted from the period, they fit together like puzzle pieces of a LATER story that was claimed to be history.

There are many theological elements in Philo that show up in Paul's thought as well as some interesting little historical tidbits that one can compare to what Josephus wrote as a corrective.

What we see from the above was that Tacitus was certainly capable and willing to include such "trivial" stories in his history and if such doings had been behind the expulsion of certain Jews in 19 AD, considering the great length he went to talking about the death of Germanicus, he most probably would have included them. But he didn't. Josephus made those stories up to cover up something. And, since he was very much inclined to cast favorable light on the ESSENES, while separating the rebels from them to some extent (though not always), one suspects that there was something really interesting going on there. And since the general trend of the stories is such as to indicate Pauline Christianity as we understand it coming down through Paul's letters themselves, it seems quite possible that this was what he was talking about: the origins of something that he couldn't/didn't want to, address directly.

So, whatever it was, it appeared to have its beginnings in 19 AD - at least a major thrust - and Josephus is both revealing and blowing smoke around it all at the same time. The sore thumb that sticks out is the Testimonium Flavianum which absolutely does not fit in the context there AS IT IS WRITTEN and this is something of a red flag that something else was in that spot in the text and has been effaced and/or covered up.

 

[MusicMan]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

From Laura:
Tertullian (c.160 - 225AD), the Christian law expert from Carthage in North Africa, wrote that Jesus was born while Gaius Sentius Saturninus was Legate of Roman Syria.

Described as energetic and valorous by Marcus Velleius Paterculus, Sentius Saturninus was a member of the Quindecimviri sacris faciundis. He had three sons, two of whom reached the consulate: Gaius Sentius Saturninus (consul in AD 4) and Gnaeus Sentius Saturninus, consul in AD 5. His third son was Lucius Sentius Saturninus, who disappears from the historical record after his father’s governorship of Syria.

The son who was consul in AD5, replaced Gnaeus Calpurnius Piso as governor of Syria in 19 AD and compelled him to return to Rome to stand trial for the murder of Germanicus Caesar.

All in all, going along with what I've already written about Pontius Pilate being in Palestine from 14 to 19 AD at the most, it is really beginning to look like the Testimonium Flavianum is pasted over something else MUCH MORE INTERESTING.

What is standing out for me here is the murder of Germanicus Caesar. (~19AD)
Piso may be a major player in this.

 

[Laura]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

So, considering the time he was writing, I sort of suspect that he KNEW Paul, or at least knew of him, and may have been simply indicating the time of the beginnings of certain trends and the source of those trends (Paul) by telling these stories. I don't think he really meant that Paul was in Rome that early, but that his particular "heresy" and activity began at that point in time, the time of Pontius Pilate in Judea and the death of Germanicus, etc.

Thinking about this some more, if one takes the two tales set adjacent to each other and thinks about them, a few items stand out.

The first tale he presents, modeled on the 58 AD event recorded by Tacitus, is all about a Roman woman taken in by an individual who is pretending to be a god of the Egyptian cult of Isis.

The second tale, is a Roman woman taken in by a "temple cult" of Judaism, so to say.

Josephus never mentions anything about BOTH forms of worship being under fire, as Tacitus does, he speaks only of Jews being expelled from Rome thanks to this nasty Jewish gang of 1 + 3.

So, clearly we are talking about the 19 AD event of expulsion under Tiberius since several essential particulars match between Tacitus and Josephus, though Tacitus is more, ummm... taciturn?

Notice that it is FULVIA who is cast as the one taken in by the Jews while it is PAULINA who is cast as being taken in by the Egyptian worship. Are these two elements important? Is Josephus telling us that it was Caesar worship that was taken over by a false sort of Judaism and that Paul, himself, was taken in by Egyptian rites/mysteries?

Notice that it was Irenaeus who protested vehemently against the rumor that Christianity was simply a re-working of the Egyptian rites. He wouldn't have been making this protest if it were not something that was widely thought.

To get some additional background, there is the following about Isis from the Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology at Tufts:

Her worship in all parts of Greece is amply attested by express statements of ancient writers and numerous inscriptions. Under the names of Pelagia (the ruler of the sea) and Aegyptia, she had two sanctuaries on the road to Acrocorinthus (Paus. 2.4.7), and others at Megara (1.41.4), Phlius (2.13.7), Tithorea in Phocis (10.32.9), Methana and Troezene (2.32.6, 34.1), Hermione (2.34.10), and Andros (see the hymn to Isis, lately discovered there, in the Class. Mus. vol. i. p. 34, &c.).

In the western parts of Europe the worship of Isis became likewise established, and many places in Sicily, Italy, and Gaul, are known to have been the seats of it. According to Appuleius (Met. xi. p. 262), it was introduced at Rome in the time of Sulla : at a later time her statue was removed from the capitol by a decree of the senate (Tertull. ad Nation. 1.10, Apolog. 6; Arnob. ad v. Gent. 2.73); but the populace and the consuls Piso and Gabinius, in B. C. 58, resisted the decree. A further decree of B. C. 53 forbade the private worship of Isis, and ordered the chapels dedicated to her to be destroyed. Subsequently, when the worship was restored, her sanctuaries were to be found only outside the pomoerium. (D. C. 40.47.) This interference on the part of the government was thought necessary on account of the licentious orgies with which the festivals of the goddess were celebrated. In B. C. 50, the consul, L. Aemilius Paulus himself, was the first to begin the destruction of her temples, as no one else ventured to do so. (V. Max. 1.3.3.) But these decrees do not appear to have quite succeeded in destroying the worship of Isis, for in B. C. 47 a new decree was issued to destroy the temple of Isis and Serapis. By a mistake, the adjoining temple of Bellona was likewise pulled down, and in it were found pots filled with human flesh. (D. C. 42.26.)

As it had thus become evident that the people were extremely partial to the worship of those foreign divinities, the triumvirs in B. C. 43 courted the popular favour by building a new temple of Isis and Serapis in the third region, and sanctioning their worship. (D. C. 47.15.) It would appear that after this attempts were made to erect sanctuaries of Isis in the city itself, for Augustus forbade her worship in the city, while outside of it there seem to have been several temples, which were subjected to government inspection. (D. C. 53.2; comp. 54.6.)

The interference of the government was afterwards repeatedly required (Tac. Ann. 2.85; Suet. Tib. 36; J. AJ 18.3.4; Hegesipp. 2.4); but from the time of Vespasian the worship of Isis and Serapis became firmly established, and remained in a flourishing condition until the general introduction of Christianity.
(http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0104%3Aalphabetic+letter%3DI%3Aentry+group%3D9%3Aentry%3Disis-bio-1)

Notice the mention of Aemilius Paulus in 50 BC...

The relationship between early Christianity and Isis worship seems to have been connected to the activities of Valentinian and he was probably the object of Irenaeus' ire. In the following, keep in mind the perspective of Irenaeus as well as that of the author who utilizes pejorative terms against Valentinian very freely. Also keep in mind that Gnostic systems were NOT "falling away" from some original, pure, Christianity, but were rather probably well developed even in the time of Paul. One only has to read Philo to see gnosticism in action:

Valentinianism is a Gnostic Christian movement that was founded by Valentinus in the second century AD, and it was one of the most powerful Gnostic movements that rose against the Church.... Its infection was not limited to Rome, but stretched as far as Egypt, Asia Minor, Syria, and up into Northwest Africa. Valentinianism was very active well into the fourth century AD, even after the Roman Empire declared themselves Christian.

The Valentinian system was comprised of a pyramid, representing the superstructure of the celestial system, or the world of Aeons as they believed. At the top of this pyramid was the Ogdoad, a combination of Egyptian gods that included eight deities worshipped in Hermopolis during the time of the Old Kingdom (2686 BC – 2134 BC). In Egyptian mythology, their interaction was believed to be unbalanced, resulting in the arising of a new entity. When the entity opened, it revealed Ra, the fiery sun, inside. After a long interval of rest, Ra, together with the other deities, created all other things.

At the bottom of the Valentinian pyramid was the foundation, Sophia. Sophia was the goddess of wisdom, or more specifically, goddess of wisdom of the hidden mysteries. Sophia was believed by the Gnostics to embody the “female” aspect of God, and she was the lowest Aeon. According to Valentinian mythology, Sophia was fallen from grace and responsible for creating the material world of sin.

Combining these Egyptian gods into Christianity, the Valentinian belief system proclaimed that Christ was just a man, a pure vessel for His reception of Sophia. In the book “Against Heresies,” .... Irenaeus describes this belief system and its heresy. According to Irenaeus, the Valentinians believed that Sophia descended down into the world created by her disgrace, poured herself into Christ, and then leaves Him again just before the Crucifixion. When Christ rose, these Gnostics describe Christ ascending with Sophia into the world or Aeon which will never pass away.

Because this was the most powerful Gnostic influence on the early Church, Irenaeus devotes a great deal of time towards describing the heresy of including Egyptian Gods into Christian worship. Like the Babylonian and Sumerian systems of worship, this Egyptian worship system that was being re-established in Greece relied heavily upon the sun, moon, and stars. The solar system and more specifically the Zodiac provided the high priests access to powerful knowledge, the gift of Sophia. Using solar calculations, these priests would use numerologies to determine the powerful numbers, paths of life, current and future events, and more.....

Of the Valentinians, one person became a real threat to the church. Irenaeus describes Marcus, and his ability to use this knowledge and these numbers to persuade many. Marcus was responsible for pulling several Christians from the body of Christ into Gnosticism, and he used basic numbers to do so.

In the chapter, “THE DECEITFUL ARTS AND NEFARIOUS PRACTICES OF MARCUS,” Irenaeus describes him:

But there is another among these heretics, Marcus by name, who boasts himself as having improved upon his master. He is a perfect adept in magical impostures, and by this means drawing away a great number of men, and not a few women, he has induced them to join themselves to him, as to one who is possessed of the greatest knowledge and perfection, and who has received the highest power from the invisible and ineffable regions above. Thus it appears as if he really were the precursor of Antichrist. For, joining the buffooneries of Anaxilaus to the craftiness of the magi, as they are called, he is regarded by his senseless and cracked-brain followers as working miracles by these means.
Against Heresies

Irenaeus continues to describe his power, but warns the church that Marcus himself was not in control. There was an elemental spirit involved, and that spirit had given Marcus the gift of prophecy.

Not only prophecy, but Marcus apparently had an angel. The combination of the angel and the prophetic gift was deceiving many in the church, and causing not only division, but severed limbs in the body of Christ. Like so many today, the early Church was confused by the signs and wonders, and did not heed instruction by Jesus and the apostles to test the prophecies.

It appears probable enough that this man possesses a demon as his familiar spirit, by means of whom he seems able to prophesy

...
[Marcus was proclaiming] Now the place of thy angel is among us: it behoves us to become one. Receive first from me and by me [the gift of] Chaffs. Adorn thyself as a bride who is expecting her bridegroom, that thou mayest be what I am, and I what thou art.
Against Heresies

Using these elemental spirits and their associated demons from Egyptian worship, Marcus had found power in the number seven. Though the alphabet contained several letters, Marcus focused upon numerical groupings of letters. Several other “types,” “symbols,” and representations Marcus focused attention to contained the number seven and the number five.

Using this strategy, Marcus grouped “sevens” and “fives” together, focusing attention on the number “seven.” There were eight gods in the Ogdoad, but one of them had fallen. When Sophia joined with Christ, according to this Gnostic teaching, Christ ascended into the throne to complete the eight.

The other names which are to be uttered with respect, and faith, and reverence, are, according to him, Arrhetos and Sige, Pater and Aletheia. Now the entire number of this Tetrad amounts to four-and-twenty letters; for the name Arrhetos contains in itself seven letters, Seige(1) five, Pater five, and Aletheia seven. If all these be added together--twice five, and twice seven--they complete the number twenty-four. In like manner, also, the second Tetrad, Logos and Zoe, Anthropos and Ecclesia, reveal the same number of elements. Moreover, that name of the Saviour which may be pronounced, viz., Jesus 'Ihsous, consists of six letters, but His unutterable name comprises for-and-twenty letters. The name Christ the Son(2) (uios Xreistos) comprises twelve letter, but that which is unpronounceable in Christ contains thirty letters. And for this reason he declares that he is Alpha and Omega, that he may indicate the dove, inasmuch as that bird has this number [in its name].
Against Heresies

Marcus pointed out names that are powerful, using the count of the number of letters in the written form of the name. Each of the eight Gods in Egyptian mythology were comprised of a triad, or grouping of three. As Marcus completed the eight triads, there were a total of 24 letters.

Know, then, that the four-and-twenty letters which you possess are symbolical emanations of the three powers that contain the entire number of the elements above. For you are to reckon thus--that the nine mute letters are [the images] of Pater and Aletheia, because they are without voice, that is, of such a nature as cannot be uttered or pronounced. But the semi-vowels represent Logos and Zoe, because they are, as it were, midway between the consonants and the vowels, partaking of the nature of both. The vowels, again, are representative of Anthropos and Ecclesia, inasmuch as a voice proceeding from Anthropos gave being to them all; for the sound of the voice imparted to them form. Thus, then, Logos and Zoe possess eight [of these letters]; Anthropos and Ecclesia seven; and Pater and Aletheia nine. But since the number allotted to each was unequal, He who existed in the Father came down, having been specially sent by Him from whom He was separated, for the rectification of what had taken place, that the unity of the Pleromas, being endowed with equality, might develop in all that one power which flows from all. Thus that division which had only seven letters, received the power of eight
Against Heresies

From this, Marcus had determined the power in the number seven. Seven deities, and one fallen from grace. The seven were all-powerful, and the church, according to this mythology, joined itself with the fallen to become one with the other seven. Seven plus one equals eight.

He employed as his instrument, as the Sige of Marcus declares, the power of seven letters, in order that the fruit of the independent will [of Achamoth] might be revealed. "Consider this present Episemon," she says--"Him who was formed after the [original] Episemon, as being, as it were, divided or cut into two parts, and remaining outside; who, by His own power and wisdom, through means of that which had been produced by Himself, gave life to this world, consisting of seven powers,(7) after the likeness of the power of the Hebdomad, and so formed it, that it is the soul of everything visible.
Against Heresies

- See more at: http://www.seekyethetruth.com/blog/2013/20130925_Marcus_And_The_Number_Seven.aspx#sthash.OEeyPYrm.dpuf

Now, interestingly, all of the above respecting Valentinian is curiously reminiscent of Paul, especially in Ephesians which the "true believers" are pleased to exclude as non-authentic but which Douglas Campbell insists IS authentic and the clearest statement of what Paul taught extant.

It also reminds me of a little exchange with the Cs that is furiously interesting:

Q: (A) I want to ask about the meaning of my dream, which was
so vivid... about Elohim and Seraphim. What was the
meaning of this dream?

A: Peace torch.

Q: (A) What is peace torch? From whom?

A: Not from. All considered before decision on judgment.

Q: (L) That makes no sense at all.

A: Yes it does.

Q: (A) Who were the Elohim?

A: Elohim refers to past, as a connection to future as
envisioned in your dream. It is the connector that
counts, see?? Ruling council of Od; Odiem.

Q: (L) What about the Seraphim?

A: Council in clouds... We are speaking of advanced insight
here.

Q: (L) Why were there 300 Elohim and 301 Seraphim?

A: Who is the odd one out?

Q: (A) Who is the odd one out?

A: Check your roots. Od, odiem, odd, could we spell it out
any clearer for you? Not without abridging free will!

Q: (L) Who is Sara?

A: Roots.

Q: (L) Who is the 'King of the Angels?'

A: No more spoonfeeding. Gerbers is out of stock!

Q: (L) Okay, go on...

A: Arkadiusz is supposed to be asking about this. It was his
dream.

Going now in another direction, there's another interesting thing about this. Notice that the Markan gospel has the following:

In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar--when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, Herod tetrarch of Galilee, his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturea and Traconitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene-- (3:1)

Now, I'm pretty sure, based on what I wrote in the other thread about the Pauline timeline, that Pontius Pilate was never in Judea in the "fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius". However, if you made that "in the FIFTH year of Tiberius", it would fit exactly with the other elements I've mentioned.

I'm not sure how one would write "fifteenth" as opposed to "fifth" in Greek. But in Roman numerals it is the difference between V and XV.

Also notice that many scholars believe the the original beginning of Mark's gospel was 3:1 and that the longer intro was added later. So one might say that the converting of the story of Caesar to "Jesus" in the earliest redaction began that way with the possibility that it originally said "In the FIFTH year of Tiberius".

Again, we have that 10/11 year variation that keeps popping up. I'm beginning to wonder if two such periods were added at some point, a 22 year discrepancy? How it may have been done, I haven't worked out, but I just keep seeing it there: between the death of Herod and the termination of the reign of Archelaus and then between the death of Augustus and the death of Germanicus.

I think we ought to merge this thread with the Pauline timeline one since one really can't discuss "discrepancies" between Cayce and Cs without bringing in the issue of the Jesus myth/Pauline creation of Christianity. As I keep saying, there is channeled material that is 10% inspiration, and there is research and the use of reason that is the 90% of solving a mystery.

This is a tough one to solve because there is a group with a vested interest in covering things up that has been in place, more or less, from the beginning and I still can't quite figure out their agenda. Were they Judaizers taking over Christianity as developed by Paul, or were they followers of Pauline Christianity taking over Judaism as a mytho-historical foundation???

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Reconciling Cayce Jesus info with the C's Jesus info

Notice that it is FULVIA who is cast as the one taken in by the Jews while it is PAULINA who is cast as being taken in by the Egyptian worship. Are these two elements important? Is Josephus telling us that it was Caesar worship that was taken over by a false sort of Judaism and that Paul, himself, was taken in by Egyptian rites/mysteries?

Which is interesting because Alexandria/Egypt is notably absent from the history of 1st-century Christianity... Something was going on there. Maybe in connection with Antony/Cleopatra and Caesar worship?