Jonathan Adampants - Spirit

[foofighter]

so perhaps it's not so much what he is saying (which from the transcript doesn't seem that impressive) as how he is saying it?

I think so. It strikes me as a new age love and light pseudo version of NLP. The right mix of seemingly scientific and new agey words that leaves you with the impression that there is something interesting here, but for some strange reason you can't say what precisely

After having listened to some other segments, and having thought some more about the referenced session, I would agree with this. The bizarre thing is that Adampants is himself on YouTube deconstructing Fox News segments in terms of NLP, so, he definitely knows NLP quite well. Here's an example:
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9BeXEvdcpo

 

[RedFox]

The reason I thought this is because I kept wondering how else he could arrive at the things he says I know to be true.

Having nearly completed Operation Trojan Horse by John Keel, he describes very similar things. Put together with the knowledge of 4D STS presented by the C's and it basically comes down to the fact that the 4D STS lot are very very clever, know us inside and out and are able to impart this knowledge to whomever they choose.
So whatever the source, I think a lot can be said about the knowledge imparted by how it is processed/discerned.....is it taken on pure faith and/or (possibly manipulated) emotional responses or is it questioned/shared/analysed and general turned upside down and looked at from all angles by a large and diverse group of people? :)

The thing is, he may well be quite genuine. He may even be a potential 4D STO candidate......yet this is the way the 4D STS divert him from that.....
He is trapped by it because the higher knowledge resonates with him, yet the trap is complete because he has no knowledge of the possible sources and there motivations.
So others resonate with him because he is nearly doing what he is meant to do, and doing it genuinely...yet there is that tiny subtle almost invisible twist behind it.....

So rather than feel the emotions are foolish, like Buddy mentions it may be very useful to look at what is brought to the surface and see where it comes from, and perhaps heal what you may be feeling? :)
The most cunning of traps can offer some of the best learning opportunities, despite the risks involved. I guess this is the advantage/necessity of the network. :)

 

[Biomiast]

I have watched the video SAO linked from Sott article and I want to offer my two cents, fwiw.

As I was reading the thread, at the first posts I thought: "Who knows this guy didn't read any material that is a part of this forum?" And as I go along, SAO realized that, which is a good possibility. About psychopath and cancer metaphor, it isn't such an amazing realization, or so I think. They both consume our energy to proliferate, they ponerize us etc. Just because we didn't think of it, doesn't make this guy a genius.

About the video, I hesitate to comment on validity of his claims. What I love about biology is, there are many possibilities.

If you follow Swine flu thread, there was a virologist who claimed viruses don't cause any disease, it is just our toxicity. What he describes can be cause of viral diseases but as I read the details of his claims, he had some sort of wishful thinking that "nothing in nature is parasite", viruses come in, proliferate and leave the cell without harming it. As if he was thinking: "No way, my beloved viruses wouldn't do such bad things." Yet, his lack of objectivity didn't rule out his claims.

The same can be said in this case. The guy uses the fact that we don't know the origins or the use of the viruses. On the other hand, he is basically making fun of certain things to get his ideas accepted. And about his making fun process: I was recently reading God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. He answers the claims that how can such things evolve by coincidence. This guy uses the same claims. What Dawkins try to convey was that, this didn't happen by coincidence, it is a form of natural selection and accumulated mutations.

A virus who directly infects our white blood cells can be explained in many ways. Maybe they are Trojan horses to harm us which would give them ability to live. It sounds reasonable to me that a bacteria come into a host and it sends an HIV virus to kill the immune system for a better environment to live in. Of course, that wouldn't happen quickly, many bacteria would die before someone would make correct combination to kill immune system cells.

Yet again, it doesn't rule out his claims, but it doesn't prove them either. I can understand why you think he is intelligent, he uses lack of knowledge in certain areas to slip in his ideas and he does it in such a way that you can really understand what he says.

I would say he is a dangerous manipulator with some truth between lies as all disinformation artists, or he simply thinks he knows something, but he doesn't, as majority of population. What I found repelling about him is his confidence that he is telling the truth.

Just my two cents, fwiw.

 

[Laura]

Most of my knowledge is not from any book, any lecture, any video, any movie, any mentor, it is direct infusion of knowledge into me. I've had, two noble-prize winning ideas that I know of the second one last summer or two summers ago... was that there are no neutrons in an atom. Now, I didn't read that anywhere. I knew it... I was able to deduce it, that information was infused... into me, from the creative force. And I know why there are no neutrons.

Right here is where I saw what he is...

 

[Renaissance]

And maybe I'm just surprised that someone not connected to this forum (that i know of) is Seeing so many of these things... it gave me a sense of hope that this group is not alone on this planet. It actually made me cry pretty uncontrollably while listening, and I still can't stop crying. And being so emotional could be clouding my judgment, so I thought it might be helpful to get input in case I'm giving this more credit than it is due. There is something beautiful in what he says, and just gave me the impression that maybe all is not yet lost.

If you've been doing the breathing and meditation program, perhaps the emotions you felt just needed a trigger to be released. 'Being so emotional' may be a good thing; however, it could be a mistake though to attribute an emotional connection to Mr. Adampants' work when it just happened to be at the 'right place at the right time'.

 

[kenlee]

No. And you'll understand that later. What I need to do is make perfectly clear.. the essentials of creation. To call them "Laws" or any word... for some reason, I cant find the right word. To call them "Laws" of creation, "Laws" of life, completely misses the point. Because if you see it as some sort of rule and regulation that you have to adhere to, that immediately means you're disconnected from creation itself.

He talks about the “Laws” of creation as “missing the point” but it seems to me what he is really saying (in a David Ickish sort of way) is that that ‘we are all one consciousness.’

Note how often he uses the term consciousness when talking about the atom.

But it's not the quantum physics you like, it's the qualitative nature of life. Physics deals with the physical, and what is affecting the physical from a physical point of view. But anyway, in this consciousness of the electron... consciousness , I don't even like to call it "Electron" because that implies that it's a particle, I like to call it "Dark Energy". Not that I'm... embracing good and bad, light and dark... and I'll get into that, but we'll use that as a better example. As one part is vibrating, the other one will couple to it, part of that consciousness, the same frequency but 180 degrees out of phase with it, therefore making it and rendering it neutral. This is why they tell you that an atom is 99.9% empty space, it is not... the energy is there it just phase cancelling itself out, meaning there are no wavelengths of that consciousness for you to... read.

But he doesn't even explain what consciousness is. At the same time he doesn't talk about 'Laws' and,
imo, this leads to the bypassing of the discriminatory powers of the mind (which is probably his real intent even if he's unaware of it) by bypassing any mention of those Laws that set the conditions which determine what is possible and what is impossible in each of 7 worlds of Gurdjieff’s ray of creation. In other words his real intent is to make us feel that we don’t have to work our way out of the General Law (the conditions, of which, are determined by mechanical Laws) since we are all already ‘one consciousness' and already free.

At least that's the impression I got from reading the video excerpt and watching part of the video (although I didn’t watch the whole thing).

From the book In Search Of The Miraculous:

On the Earth we are very far removed from the will of the Absolute; we are separated from it by forty-eight orders of mechanical laws. If we could free ourselves from one half of these laws, we should find ourselves subject to only twenty-four orders of laws, that is, to the laws of the planetary world, and then we should be one stage nearer to the Absolute and its will. If we could then free ourselves from one half of these laws, we should be subject to the laws of the sun (twelve laws) and consequently one stage nearer still to the Absolute. If, again, we could free ourselves from half of these laws, we should be subject to the laws of the starry world and separated by only one stage from the immediate will of the Absolute. And the possibility for man thus gradually to free himself from mechanical laws exists.

The study of the forty-eight orders of laws to which man is subject cannot be abstract like the study of astronomy; they can be studied only by observing them in oneself and by getting free from them.

At the beginning a man must simply understand that he is quite needlessly subject to a thousand petty but irksome laws which have been created for him by other people and by himself. When he attempts to get free from them he will see that he cannot. Long and persistent attempts to gain freedom from them will convince him of his slavery. The laws to which man is subject can only be studied by struggling with them, by trying to get free from them. But a great deal of knowledge is needed in order to become free from one law without creating for oneself another in its place.
G. I. Gurdjieff

And this from Illion's ‘Darkness Over Tibet’:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/tibet.htm

I had to think of a passage in the drama Faust, by Goethe, where the devil says to himself after leaving a prospective victim:

"Contempt your capacity to think,
Which is man's greatest power;
Welcome misty things and sorcery
And the spirit of illusion,
Then I shall get you surely enough."

 

[go2]

The thing is, he may well be quite genuine. He may even be a potential 4D STO candidate......yet this is the way the 4D STS divert him from that.....
He is trapped by it because the higher knowledge resonates with him, yet the trap is complete because he has no knowledge of the possible sources and there motivations.
So others resonate with him because he is nearly doing what he is meant to do, and doing it genuinely...yet there is that tiny subtle almost invisible twist behind it.....

It seems at each level up the mountain, there is a vector for you. A vector into a trap, more cunning and devious the further along one goes. I was seduced by JA for a moment. Authority and certainty offer comfort and knowledge for the blind and weary. Accepting conclusions and belief close my mind to continuing further. The network sees what I wish not to see and encourages when the road seems endless. Thanks for your insight, Redfox.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I also wanted to ask why it is important to have evidence that this 'group is not alone on this planet' and how that would give 'the impression that maybe all is not yet lost.'

This group/forum is the only real lighthouse I've ever discovered, but the idea that there could be others out there who are genuinely waking up and working to help spread the word kinda overwhelmed me. It's like a ray of hope that there are others out there that aren't so lost. But the more I think about it, the more I realize I was crying just from the idea of it, not so much the reality. I really wanted to believe that for once this is the real deal, that it's not another alex jones or david icke, albeit more subtle. But alas, it is, and it's not even that subtle after reading everyone's analysis, it really helps immensely to regain the clarity I clearly lost while I was caught up in it and had my emotions triggered.

Thinking about it though, it's not necessarily a sad thing even if this group is the only group of its kind in the world. Help comes in the way of others who join this group and become collinear. So technically there really is an enormous amount of help out there, and it's not necessary for this help to exist totally independently of this group. In fact, I can see no better way for help to come than for everyone involved to do this together as one collinear and networked unit of like minds, hearts, and souls. Each member of the network is protected by virtue of being part of an objective network where "all for one, one for all" is how things are done, and the group benefits from each member that works to wake themselves up and in the process helps others do the same. This makes things much easier, safer, and much more efficient.

But the fact that my mind was so easily fooled is a good warning and lesson for me. Had I been more integrated with this group I doubt I would've been so easily befuddled. Anart said exactly what I needed to hear in the Breathing Program thread:

I think that until a person has really and truly 'cleaned their vessel', that we are quite susceptible to pathological/sleeping behavior - it sinks in, stains us in some way and affects our thought processes in ways that are sometimes very difficult to track. It's as if this new (Real) 'us' that we are developing and fusing, is quite fragile at times; and the din and confusion of nothing but A influences for two whole weeks can really wreak havoc on a mind that is becoming Real. I have no proof of this, but there really seems to be something to the idea that clarity and objectivity is a signal that - until it is strong enough to emit on its own all the time, despite its surroundings - must be reinforced by external influences that emit a colinear signal. The overwhelming signal of this world is entropy - so when one begins to sound their own signal of increased order and creativity, it is easy for that to be overwhelmed or knocked off key by external influences that are not colinear.

I think this becomes less likely as one gets stronger, though - but that it may always be a possibility.

One other aspect that might be helpful to remember is that this is a process - and there will be times when it seems we are 'going backwards' when we really aren't - when things get more difficult, more frayed and that merely signals that we're about to 'pop it up another notch'. Usually, when I go through my most difficult times, I find, once I've reached the other side (which might seem like it takes FOREVER) - that everything is at a new level - even though I could have sworn that all was lost and that I'd lost all the clarity I thought I might have had. There are octaves, cycles and I do think it's a spiraling staircase, meaning that at times it might seem we're going sideways or backwards when we're really still moving up. (Though, that's not to say that we should delude ourselves when we're actually in free fall!) Just some thoughts...

It's such an apt reminder - I've seen this so many times with myself and others in the past. I've definitely been going through one of those "what is going on with my life" times that really is seeming to last forever. And maybe my emotions were really not all about JA, maybe it really is a bottled up emotional block with respect to how I feel about this group and my guilt/anger over my consistent inability to help. It's like the longer I spend not being part of the group, the worse I feel, and therefore the more difficult it is for me to return. And the more time passes, the more this feeling grows, and it really makes me dissociate to avoid facing this bubble. And I don't think there's any way to avoid having a crying fit in order to be able to heal whatever this is. I am beginning to feel like I haven't done enough crying in my life - like most of my issues that cause me to go into a self-destructive mode of existence are because I'm avoiding emotionally "facing" it. It's one thing to intellectually "realize" it, but I'm beginning to learn that until emotions kick in and truly FEEL it, which apparently means crying your heart out in a lot of cases, there is no real progress, no REAL understanding. It's just so hard to allow yourself to connect emotionally to things that have been buried for years, everything in you wants to resist at all costs!

 

[RevolutionaryJam]

Hi everyone I watched Jonathan's dialogues when they came out and found them very eye opening
and helped me stay on the path

unfortunately Jonathan decided to take them down because he felt the good information was adulterated
by mistakes he hadn't been able to see yet. He is in hiatus at the moment and we eagerly await his
return to youtube, he said he would repost updated versions of these when the time comes

other people have uploaded his old work so it's still available

 

[Laura]

I really wanted to believe that for once this is the real deal, that it's not another alex jones or david icke.... the clarity I clearly lost while I was caught up in it and had my emotions triggered. ... But the fact that my mind was so easily fooled is a good warning and lesson for me.

Breathing Program Thread

I think that until a person has really and truly 'cleaned their vessel', that we are quite susceptible to pathological/sleeping behavior - it sinks in, stains us in some way and affects our thought processes in ways that are sometimes very difficult to track. It's as if this new (Real) 'us' that we are developing and fusing, is quite fragile at times; and the din and confusion of nothing but A influences for two whole weeks can really wreak havoc on a mind that is becoming Real. ... there really seems to be something to the idea that clarity and objectivity is a signal that - until it is strong enough to emit on its own all the time, despite its surroundings - must be reinforced by external influences that emit a colinear signal. The overwhelming signal of this world is entropy - so when one begins to sound their own signal of increased order and creativity, it is easy for that to be overwhelmed or knocked off key by external influences that are not colinear. {...}

It's such an apt reminder - I've seen this so many times with myself and others in the past. I've definitely been going through one of those "what is going on with my life" times that really is seeming to last forever.... And maybe my emotions were really not all about JA, maybe it really is a bottled up emotional block with respect to how I feel about this group and my guilt/anger over my consistent inability to help. It's like the longer I spend not being part of the group, the worse I feel, and therefore the more difficult it is for me to return. And the more time passes, the more this feeling grows, and it really makes me dissociate to avoid facing this bubble. And I don't think there's any way to avoid having a crying fit in order to be able to heal whatever this is. I am beginning to feel like I haven't done enough crying in my life - like most of my issues that cause me to go into a self-destructive mode of existence are because I'm avoiding emotionally "facing" it. It's one thing to intellectually "realize" it, but I'm beginning to learn that until emotions kick in and truly FEEL it, which apparently means crying your heart out in a lot of cases, there is no real progress, no REAL understanding. It's just so hard to allow yourself to connect emotionally to things that have been buried for years, everything in you wants to resist at all costs!

I've put together the above quotes so that ya'll can see the issue here. The first clue is the "absolute certainty" of the individual on the videos. That "absolute certainty" is characteristic of pathology.

The next thing is that there may have been something of this in the interaction:

When the human mind comes into contact with [the pathological] reality so different from any experiences encountered by a person raised in a society dominated by normal people, it releases psychophysiological shock symptoms in the human brain with a higher tonus of cortex inhibition and a stifling of feelings, which then sometimes gush forth uncontrollably.

Human minds work more slowly and less keenly, since the associative mechanisms have become inefficient. Especially when a person has direct contact with [a psychopath] who use{s} their specific experience so as to traumatize the minds of the "others" with their own personalities, his mind succumbs to a state of short-term catatonia. Their humiliating and arrogant techniques, brutal paramoralizations, and so forth deaden his thought processes and his self-defense capabilities, and their divergent experiential method anchors in his mind.

Only once these unbelievably unpleasant psychological states have passed thanks to rest in benevolent company is it possible to reflect--al-ways a difficult and painful process--or to become aware that one's mind and common sense have been fooled by something which cannot fit into the normal human imagination.

My guess is that this works whether the pathological/psychopath is behaving "brutally" or "arrogantly" or humiliatingly or not. I guess you could say that "absolute certainty" is a form of arrogance and brutality against the process of seeking truth, though.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

And the last straw for me - he hates Stephen Colbert. I mean I personally prefer Jon Stewart but come on, seriously? He thinks Stephen Colbert is extremely adapt at neuro-linguistic programming, the kind exhibited by the likes of Fox, etc. From what I know about Jon and Stephen is that they do this in jest to make fun of just that and to point out the ridiculousness of mainstream news, politicians, etc.

Hi everyone I watched Jonathan's dialogues when they came out and found them very eye opening
and helped me stay on the path

Hi RJ, I noticed you're new on the forum - would you mind posting an introduction in the Newbies section? As part of that introduction I'd appreciate if you could elaborate on what "the path" is that you are referring to, and what means you use to walk the path? Also in case you may not be familiar with it yet, please see The Wave and the Adventures series to get familiarized with what this website and forum is about. And in case you aren't aware of it, please see SOTT, only the best news website on the internet!

unfortunately Jonathan decided to take them down because he felt the good information was adulterated
by mistakes he hadn't been able to see yet.

What do you mean by "adultered by mistakes"? Is it mistakes that others have pointed out? Do you know what they are and do you feel they are objective and accurate observations, or do you disagree? The use of the word "adultered" seems to point to the latter.

 

[Buddy]

I've put together the above quotes so that ya'll can see the issue here. The first clue is the "absolute certainty" of the individual on the videos. That "absolute certainty" is characteristic of pathology.

My guess is that this works whether the pathological/psychopath is behaving "brutally" or "arrogantly" or humiliatingly or not. I guess you could say that "absolute certainty" is a form of arrogance and brutality against the process of seeking truth, though.

That reminds me of the transpersonification process as illustrated by Lobaczewski.

[quote author=Lobaczewski]
His speech was fluent, but there was nothing scientific about it: he failed to distinguish between scientific and ordinary concepts and treated borderline imaginings as though it were wisdom that could not be doubted.
...
Analyzing the psychopathic characteristics of the "professor's" personality proved another excellent way of protecting one's own psychological hygiene.

You can just imagine our worry, disappointment, and surprise when some colleagues we knew well suddenly began to change their world view; their thought-patterns furthermore reminded us of the "professor's" chatter. Their feelings, which had just recently been friendly, became noticeably cooler, although not yet hostile. Benevolent or critical student arguments bounced right of them. They gave the impression of possessing some secret knowledge; we were only their former colleagues, still believing what those "professors of old" had taught us. We had to be careful of what we said to them. These former colleagues soon joined the Party.

[/quote]


Am I on the right track here? It hadn't occured to me before to look out for effects on myself by being exposed to indoctrination/teaching by one who expresses absolutely no doubt (self-doubt) whatsoever. I mean when their first impression (or first appearance) is within a context where they slip in under the psychopathic/narcisisstic radar.

This thread is a lesson in vigilance. SAO, thanks for sharing the details of your experience. Thanks to Laura for pointing out "that 'absolute certainty' is characteristic of pathology".

 

[RevolutionaryJam]

What do you mean by "adultered by mistakes"? Is it mistakes that others have pointed out? Do you know what they are and do you feel they are objective and accurate observations, or do you disagree? The use of the word "adultered" seems to point to the latter.

Hi adulterations, in his eyes, basically as he went further through the spiritual awakening he considered himself to be having the more awareness he required and with it the ability to identify mistaken information he had put out. I do not know which parts he considered to be "wrong" as all he said was "I'm coming to realise the negative information is no 'of me'" or something to that effect.

 

[RevolutionaryJam]

Dissenting opinion from Nassim Haramein on Viruses:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRsBozUB2kQ

 

[Renaissance]

Dissenting opinion from Nassim Haramein on Viruses:
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRsBozUB2kQ

Many popular and semi-popular individuals in alternative areas of research have been discussed on the forum, so it's a good idea to do a search on people or ideas before posting. Nassim Haramein is discussed in this thread: Nassim Haramein has discovered the Unified Theorey of Physics (???) and may provide with some interesting insight. This may also be particular interesting if you've been reading the new thread: This Will Bake Your Noodle!.