truth seeker
The Living Force
Thanks for posting this, Beorn. I missed this one. It was a really interesting interview, especially the second half.Beorn said:
Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War
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Thanks for making the effort to attend the talk, Rhythmik. Tickets were sold out so fast, it's amazing you managed to get one, let alone get a question in. Is there a plan by the tour organizers to put the talks up on Youtube?
Jordan has 6 copies of Ponerology? Wow. I hope six people sending him the same book is enough to get his attention. A guy with his background should have no trouble getting though it. After all, it was written for clinicians.
Jordan has 6 copies of Ponerology? Wow. I hope six people sending him the same book is enough to get his attention. A guy with his background should have no trouble getting though it. After all, it was written for clinicians.
Rhythmik
Jedi Master
I'm not sure but I didn't see any professional recording equipment. He basically talked through the laws in his new book and elaborated a bit on each one.herondancer said:
I actually only found out about it weeks after it had sold out, but I messaged the tour organizer on FB and they said the venue held on to a few tickets and I was lucky enough to get one. As I arrived I noticed that I was quite close to one of the audience microphones so I made sure to get to it as quickly as possible, they were running way over time and my question was the very last :)herondancer said:
I really hope he takes the time to read it and comment.herondancer said:
Rhythmik said:
Very interesting answers. Thanks for asking the questions, Rhythmik!
On one hand it seems like JP is dismissing the idea of an essential, or "naturally born" psychopath. But on the other, he doesn't. Not really. He just speaks in different categories. Perhaps I am mistaken, but he says that our current scientific tools are unable to fully explain psychopathic behavior. Yes, we can find brain abnormalities, or perhaps we can figure out what is the most important factor: nature or nurture. But it still doesn't come close to explaining the Nature of Evil, or why psychopaths take such delight in hurting others.
It's as if he is saying that only theology may explain that. And this is kind of hair-raising, as if the true nature of psychopath can only be explained by accepting the possibility of a "demonic" (or even 4D STS) influence. Not sure if this is what he means (the demonic part, that is), but it makes sense, especially if we think of psychopaths as conduits to this influence. It's like they have the proper hardware (brain abnormalities, and the resulting lack of conscience, remorse or fear), and this makes them perfect tools for whatever killer software that may run through them.
Rhythmik said:
Good to see you got a ticket Rhythmik! My son & I attended his Sydney talk- the first show sold out in a matter of days, so I contacted the organiser, and was notified of a final Sydney show. I am really so glad to have had an the opportunity to meet him after the show and have our books signed. He is an amazing speaker- when he pauses to gather his thoughts you can hear the silence, so intent is everyone on his every word.
I didn't line up for the Q&A, we had seats right in the middle so it was hard to get out, and there were plenty of people already lining up. I'd have loved to ask him how he suggests one deals with narcissists/character disordered people at home and at work. The queues for the book signing were long indeed, it took him two and a half hours to get through signing all the books the night before, yet he patiently did the same on that second night too.
I'm not sure how to post the links, but while he was here in Australia, he gave a few radio and TV interviews, with some well thought out questions. He has the links for all of these up on his Twitter. If Jordan Peterson is giving talks anywhere near you, it's really worth going to watching him speak :)
Keit said:
That was really great you could attend, Rhythmik, and thanks for sharing your question and his responses.
Perhaps, when the focus is on the question of psychopathy alone, and with some certainty, as JP has discussed, he would be well versed with the likes of Bob Hare at UBC etc., and what PP would impart for him if he reads it might provided some better unanswered alignment with his own thinking viz seeing the bigger picture of political and macrosocial evils of what Lobaczewski was telling people, and this lines up with aspects of what Robert Altemeyer in his 'Authoritarians' skirted around.
That said, JP may well have a greater grasp of PP in society and he is just being cautious to say it outright (like he does not already have enough opposition).
Keit said:
He makes an interesting point and one that has crossed my mind as well. Psychopaths have no conscience, so there's no issue with running over others to get what they want, but why do some apparently delight in cruelty? Is it just a fascination for some? Like collecting baseball cards or something? Is it motivated by 4D STS for feeding purposes? Not sure
FYI - Peterson on psychopaths:
I think he doesn't like the specific low-resolution idea of it just being 'psychopaths at the top' being The problem, in the context of that idea being used to reinforce 'tearing down society'.
See:
Additionally, I think the danger he may be considering is highlighted here - that of competent/successful people (in this case farmers in Soviet Russia) being labeled as 'oppressors' and overthrown (resulting in 6 million starving to death). You could easily draw the same parallel with using 'all successful people are psychopaths who oppress us and should be removed', resulting in the same consequences.
I think he doesn't like the specific low-resolution idea of it just being 'psychopaths at the top' being The problem, in the context of that idea being used to reinforce 'tearing down society'.
See:
Additionally, I think the danger he may be considering is highlighted here - that of competent/successful people (in this case farmers in Soviet Russia) being labeled as 'oppressors' and overthrown (resulting in 6 million starving to death). You could easily draw the same parallel with using 'all successful people are psychopaths who oppress us and should be removed', resulting in the same consequences.
Hi everyone,
Just went to the first stop of his book tour in NYC last night, very mixed crowd, a lot of women and all types of ethnicities and age groups. So no surprise there.
It was scheduled to start at 7:30 but did not get on until around 8’clock as people were still coming in. His tour guest is David Rubin of the Rubin report, who sort of came out to warm up the crowd and be funny.
Jordan took the stage and there was a standing ovation, people were very warm welcoming him which, I guess it’s no surprise. At the beginning you can tell he wanted to stick to an agenda for the evening and discuss briefly what the titles for each one of his chapters meant, why he had picked them and what their importance was.
But, being who he is, he was unable to stay on course and took off in all different directions, which I personally did not mind at all. It’s when he does that he finds the force to speak that makes him so amazing to listen to.
He spoke about inequality and hierarchies, the latter generate wealth but it also generates the former. And that’s the way it is, but identifying it so isn’t the same as saying that this is the way it should be. He went on about some of the concepts that have become common place for him, which was rather refreshing to listen to live.
His sense of humor is just so contagious, his voice cracks in such a way that it’s impossible to not realize when he finds something funny or hilarious. But even if so, he’s so committed to deliver a message that funny moments are short lived.
Last night his daughter was in the audience, and he briefly spoke about their relationship when explaining rule #5 “Don’t let your kids do things that will make you hate them”.
He truly speaks from experience, and his pain while watching his daughter grow with all the issues she did was overwhelming, I hadn’t realized this until last night when I saw him explain how bitter and miserable and suicidal one can become when tragedy comes along, when tragedy is long lasting pain for a loved one, specially a child. And how making the world a worse place because of it is not a noble, albeit understandable, choice. In this part he spoke of love, unconditional love.
I noticed a worry in his words, a sense of urgency and maybe even fear. He seems to be rather aware of the times we’re up to experience as a society, particularly in the west. He seemed to understand the need to do something about it, as many people as possible, for the times ahead are dark and tragic.
The beauty of his message is that he puts the will of change, and the possibility of it on the individual, on what each one of us can control. He spoke once again of our constant bargaining with the future, our endless interaction with the infinite potential that can become. How our aims as individuals and as a network (although he did not use this word) do create our reality, the reality that we all share and experience.
Here he spoke about the need to have (I forget what chapter it is in the book) of making friends with people who want the best for you, which he defined as people who were ”aiming up”, which resonates with the collinearity concept.
Some of his closing remarks were rather powerful; he said that despite his darkly pessimistic outlook on life, he was truly an optimist. He couldn’t just see the world as happy for the sake of happiness, he needed to recognize the painful and dark, and seeing it for so long in his practice and seeing that it’s not an unchanging game, an inevitability. That the inevitable tragedy, malevolence and atrophy of life can destroy your soul and turn you into a monster. It isn’t the only way to respond to life.
He said he believed human beings were truly a miracle, with the capacity and potential of, by accepting their own vulnerability and aiming high (at the stars) and courageously standing up. We can all affect and choose the cosmos (he used this word) that we will all inhabit together. Hell is a place where people abdicate their own individual responsibility, imagine if we did not use our pain to create more misery by using our victim status to do so, but instead and despite this pain we utilized our experience to do the opposite. That’s the cosmos he conceives we all could share, but I got the sense that he realizes we’re headed for hell before we can choose otherwise.
All in all a wonderful experience.
Just went to the first stop of his book tour in NYC last night, very mixed crowd, a lot of women and all types of ethnicities and age groups. So no surprise there.
It was scheduled to start at 7:30 but did not get on until around 8’clock as people were still coming in. His tour guest is David Rubin of the Rubin report, who sort of came out to warm up the crowd and be funny.
Jordan took the stage and there was a standing ovation, people were very warm welcoming him which, I guess it’s no surprise. At the beginning you can tell he wanted to stick to an agenda for the evening and discuss briefly what the titles for each one of his chapters meant, why he had picked them and what their importance was.
But, being who he is, he was unable to stay on course and took off in all different directions, which I personally did not mind at all. It’s when he does that he finds the force to speak that makes him so amazing to listen to.
He spoke about inequality and hierarchies, the latter generate wealth but it also generates the former. And that’s the way it is, but identifying it so isn’t the same as saying that this is the way it should be. He went on about some of the concepts that have become common place for him, which was rather refreshing to listen to live.
His sense of humor is just so contagious, his voice cracks in such a way that it’s impossible to not realize when he finds something funny or hilarious. But even if so, he’s so committed to deliver a message that funny moments are short lived.
Last night his daughter was in the audience, and he briefly spoke about their relationship when explaining rule #5 “Don’t let your kids do things that will make you hate them”.
He truly speaks from experience, and his pain while watching his daughter grow with all the issues she did was overwhelming, I hadn’t realized this until last night when I saw him explain how bitter and miserable and suicidal one can become when tragedy comes along, when tragedy is long lasting pain for a loved one, specially a child. And how making the world a worse place because of it is not a noble, albeit understandable, choice. In this part he spoke of love, unconditional love.
I noticed a worry in his words, a sense of urgency and maybe even fear. He seems to be rather aware of the times we’re up to experience as a society, particularly in the west. He seemed to understand the need to do something about it, as many people as possible, for the times ahead are dark and tragic.
The beauty of his message is that he puts the will of change, and the possibility of it on the individual, on what each one of us can control. He spoke once again of our constant bargaining with the future, our endless interaction with the infinite potential that can become. How our aims as individuals and as a network (although he did not use this word) do create our reality, the reality that we all share and experience.
Here he spoke about the need to have (I forget what chapter it is in the book) of making friends with people who want the best for you, which he defined as people who were ”aiming up”, which resonates with the collinearity concept.
Some of his closing remarks were rather powerful; he said that despite his darkly pessimistic outlook on life, he was truly an optimist. He couldn’t just see the world as happy for the sake of happiness, he needed to recognize the painful and dark, and seeing it for so long in his practice and seeing that it’s not an unchanging game, an inevitability. That the inevitable tragedy, malevolence and atrophy of life can destroy your soul and turn you into a monster. It isn’t the only way to respond to life.
He said he believed human beings were truly a miracle, with the capacity and potential of, by accepting their own vulnerability and aiming high (at the stars) and courageously standing up. We can all affect and choose the cosmos (he used this word) that we will all inhabit together. Hell is a place where people abdicate their own individual responsibility, imagine if we did not use our pain to create more misery by using our victim status to do so, but instead and despite this pain we utilized our experience to do the opposite. That’s the cosmos he conceives we all could share, but I got the sense that he realizes we’re headed for hell before we can choose otherwise.
All in all a wonderful experience.
Thanks Alejo for the eyewitness testimony, and sharing your feelings of the experience.Alejo said:
Jordan Peterson discusses Mass Shootings/Activism at The Beacon Theater in New York City 3/25
Published on Mar 25, 2018 / 9:30
Yes, thanks also for the summary Alejo, it sounds like quite an experience! Others I have spoken to also say that when seeing Peterson in person, his personality really shines through. I can only imagine since I already find his videos quite engaging :P
As you mention, I think one of the things about him that people find so appealing is that he talks from experience. He’s been through his own chaos and suffering and is an example of what life can be if one takes responsibility and steps up to the challenge as best as one can.
From watching his videos, I like the way he talks – it’s like he isn’t talking at you, but with you as if you’re having a dialogue together, as if he’s speaking directly to you. On the whole, it’s a great message and something sorely needed these days, I think.
As you mention, I think one of the things about him that people find so appealing is that he talks from experience. He’s been through his own chaos and suffering and is an example of what life can be if one takes responsibility and steps up to the challenge as best as one can.
From watching his videos, I like the way he talks – it’s like he isn’t talking at you, but with you as if you’re having a dialogue together, as if he’s speaking directly to you. On the whole, it’s a great message and something sorely needed these days, I think.
Yes, thanks Alejo, and to you c.a. for posting the talk in NY.
Indeed, and that is is his gift, his ability to connect, because as he infers often enough, people are starving for a conversation that has been so lacking - and he helps that process.
fabric said:
Indeed, and that is is his gift, his ability to connect, because as he infers often enough, people are starving for a conversation that has been so lacking - and he helps that process.
In his most recent Patreon Q&A, Peterson answered a question about conscience. In it, he gives a description of the effect that lying has on you. While he's said it before in similar ways, I found the way he put it here pretty remarkable. Basically, it's a super eloquent way of saying "Lies turn your brain to mush." (timestamp = 30:04)
