Jordan Peterson’s wife, Tammy, still in hospital after surgery complications

Renaissance

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Good to hear about Tammy's recovery and even a message directly from her. This family has been through so much in the past few years, my heart goes out to them. This clonazepam sounds just awful. JP's brain is pretty amazing, and it sounds like this drug can really mess things up. It's criminal that the doctors prescribing such a thing don't tell people what they are getting into.
 

Mariama

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I love the fact that Tammy says in the video that she is ready to hit the road again with Jordan and they have more things to do and listen to more people. After all they have been through and are going through ATM there's no doubt in my mind that they will put their suffering to good use. They are truly inspirational people. :love:
 

Arwenn

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Thanks for the update, oh man I’m sorry they are still going through hard times. I will keep them in my thoughts and prayers. JBP seems to have a supportive network of family and friends, so hopefully he can overcome this setback too.

It's criminal that the doctors prescribing such a thing don't tell people what they are getting into.
I totally agree. Sadly, many times doctors believe the reps (and their randomised double blind ‘studies’ printed on glossy paper, funded by the pharmaceutical company of course), without looking any further. Nonetheless, it is reprehensible to prescribe something like this without letting the patient know they can’t stop cold turkey.
 

Nienna

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It's criminal that the doctors prescribing such a thing don't tell people what they are getting into.
Indeed, it is criminal! One should always ask what the side-effects are of any medicine they are given. As an example, when I was being treated for the autoimmune disorder that I have, the Fellow at the University that was seeing me suggested a new treatment: it was an infusion that would be given once a month and was very expensive. Because of already knowing that there were serious side-effects to most medicines, I asked what were the side-effects of this infusion. I was told that it caused symptoms that were much like cerebral palsy. So I asked if when the medication was stopped if these symptoms went away. The answer was "No". I, too, said "No".

I couldn't believe that anyone who is supposed to be helping people get better could even think of giving a treatment like this that could end up making the person's like even more miserable! But, then, when you are pushing meds for Big Pharma, the more meds they can get you on, the better.
 

Yupo

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Indeed, it is criminal! One should always ask what the side-effects are of any medicine they are given. As an example, when I was being treated for the autoimmune disorder that I have, the Fellow at the University that was seeing me suggested a new treatment: it was an infusion that would be given once a month and was very expensive. Because of already knowing that there were serious side-effects to most medicines, I asked what were the side-effects of this infusion. I was told that it caused symptoms that were much like cerebral palsy. So I asked if when the medication was stopped if these symptoms went away. The answer was "No". I, too, said "No".

I couldn't believe that anyone who is supposed to be helping people get better could even think of giving a treatment like this that could end up making the person's like even more miserable! But, then, when you are pushing meds for Big Pharma, the more meds they can get you on, the better.
Yes, always ask! And ask your pharmacist as well. And do your own research. Then decide if the medication is worth the price and the risks. In spite of what people read, most physicians are not pushing drugs for big pharma. The only kickbacks are from being involved in studies and from being on the lecture circuit. These ties must be disclosed, always. Study subjects must be informed. We can't even get post-it notes or ball point pens anymore, as if those illicit goodies would entice anyone to prescribe something.
You can see how much your US physician has been 'bribed' on this website:
_Open Payments Data - CMS | CMS Open Payments Data

A lot of people take Clonazepam for a lot of reasons. I heard years ago that the best way to tell when the street supply of heroin was running low was when prescription requests for this increased. Supposedly helps a lot with the painful muscle spasms during withdrawal. The term kicking the habit comes from these intense spasms, it is said.
 

mkrnhr

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Maybe Peterson's weakness was exploited against him. Throughout his interaction with the establishment, he's still trusting of the maintream narrative, whether in politics, science, media, etc. He had expressed some mild suspicion but that didn't matrerialize in real skepticism. Maybe things will be different after this episode, and maybe he'll see that being on the metaphorical fence is not a very strategic position.
 

SlipNet

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Maybe Peterson's weakness was exploited against him. Throughout his interaction with the establishment, he's still trusting of the maintream narrative, whether in politics, science, media, etc. He had expressed some mild suspicion but that didn't matrerialize in real skepticism. Maybe things will be different after this episode, and maybe he'll see that being on the metaphorical fence is not a very strategic position.
I'd like to agree with this, but I suspect that this won't enter into his mind, sadly. I agree with your perspective, I just think that he'll be more focussed on his own worries, sadly. Still, I think he'll pull through this, and will continue on his own course. It just won't be the course I think he should take, but he is who he is, he'll make his own choices.
 

Beau

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Maybe Peterson's weakness was exploited against him. Throughout his interaction with the establishment, he's still trusting of the maintream narrative, whether in politics, science, media, etc. He had expressed some mild suspicion but that didn't matrerialize in real skepticism. Maybe things will be different after this episode, and maybe he'll see that being on the metaphorical fence is not a very strategic position.
Yeah, he has mentioned a number of times that anti-depressants were vital for his daughter's wellbeing and recovery. He obviously didn't understand the problems inherent in pharmaceutical products. It is surprising to me though, because Mikhaila talks all the time about how modern medicine failed her, yet JP still put his faith in allopathic methods. I don't know if this will cleanse him of some mainstream sacred cows, but I hope that at least he doesn't rely on pharma to heal him. The question is, if one is under an intense amount of stress mixed with JP's history of depression, what were his other options? I imagine that he felt like there was no other choice if he was to keep himself together for his wife and family's sake.
 

mkrnhr

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It is surprising to me though, because Mikhaila talks all the time about how modern medicine failed her, yet JP still put his faith in allopathic methods. I don't know if this will cleanse him of some mainstream sacred cows, but I hope that at least he doesn't rely on pharma to heal him.
The unknown factor is his mysterious network of advisers: is their advice on what to say and not to say also influencing, as secondary effect, what to think and not to think?
 

Alana

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The question is, if one is under an intense amount of stress mixed with JP's history of depression, what were his other options? I imagine that he felt like there was no other choice if he was to keep himself together for his wife and family's sake.
That's what I was also thinking. I can't imagine there is greater suffering than losing (or coming close to losing) your most beloved person in the world. The way Peterson always talked about Tammy... and then out of the blue finding out she has cancer... and when the cancer was removed, all the life-threatening complications that followed....

We all have our "pills" when we suffer, something to make the pain bearable. Whether it is dissociation, actual substances, we all need something so that we can live another day and do what is in front of us to do, be there for those who need us, until there is a "softening" or a culmination of the pain. I guess Peterson chose antidepressants because that was what helped him in the past? In any event, he doesn't seem like the type of person who would dissociate in phantasy.

I don't know whether I consider him a hero personally, he is more a type of father figure to me, despite all his imperfections (or because of them, why would I expect a father to be perfect?) But he is a kind of hero to lots of people, and I appreciate it all the more that by sharing this dark episode in his life is also a reminder that all our heroes are human, all too human too. It's easier to try to emulate a role model that you feel closer to you than one placed on a very high pedestal. Or so I perceive things in the moment.
 

marek760

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The question is, if one is under an intense amount of stress mixed with JP's history of depression, what were his other options? I imagine that he felt like there was no other choice if he was to keep himself together for his wife and family's sake.
Certainly, Peterson is aware of negative effects of anti-depressants , but he doesn't see any other way out, his other options " pick up your damn suffering and bear it! and try to be a good person so you don't make it worse! " it was too much for him, or he dont want to make it worse. Maybe it was a lesser evil for him to bear the pain.

Today I read about, WHO: Global suicide crisis calls for widespread preventive action " one person still dies every 40 seconds from suicide"


I wonder how many of these people have taken anti-depressants
 

hlat

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He wrote about working on his book in the hospital room with his wife, which made me think that he should've stopped all work, to focus on his wife and his ability to take care of his wife, since he has enough money not to work.

It's production capability versus production. He should've stopped production and focused exclusively on production capability. His wife and him are the golden goose, and he needs to take care of the goose if there will be more golden eggs in the future.
 

Beau

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He wrote about working on his book in the hospital room with his wife, which made me think that he should've stopped all work, to focus on his wife and his ability to take care of his wife, since he has enough money not to work.

It's production capability versus production. He should've stopped production and focused exclusively on production capability. His wife and him are the golden goose, and he needs to take care of the goose if there will be more golden eggs in the future.
There's a lot of downtime in hospital rooms. I don't think there's any reason to criticize him for wanting to take his mind off the thought of losing his wife by writing. Perhaps it relaxed him? He's not a robot.
 
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