Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Gawan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

How long has it been going on?

As far as I know it is an underlying issue that never subsided since several years, only that I perceive it as stronger than usual and is kind of a distraction on my daily working routine, where I need to cope differently and do things that need to be done and are possible to do without full mental capacity.

It remembers me of several years back when I started diet changes (diary entries of symtoms from the beginning of 2010 look very similar), where a similar feeling (lack of energy, burning eyes, no motivation) occurred and also in the morning hours. So that it could be an underlying (organic) issue, whatever it is.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

A minor update and any ideas would be appreciated.

Every morning about 1.5 - 3 hours after I'm awake I have kind of a light-headedness, burning eyes, cold hands, brain fog and weak legs (or overal a weak feeling) which lasts about 1-2 hrs. I tried different things now:

* I didn't have at one day breakfast to see if it something in the food and did some light sport exercises: no success
* I did eat normal breakfast and did then resistance exercise, plus a cold shower: no success
* did some light exercises before standing up

I drink a lot and about 500-700ml in the morning (salted water, tea, bone broth)

My main assumption is, that it could be something with blood pressure since I tend to be low. In the evening I have then warm hands.

This sounds so similar to all we have gone through here during the hard-core keto transition period. It was like, until the system switch-over, things just struggled along.

I've also mentioned the weird headaches I was getting during the switch-over period. I've done some more testing and it definitely comes with the adrenal dump schedule and has something to do with carb/fat switching. After I had eaten carbs for a few days (not many, below 50 g for sure), and then went back to keto, the headaches came again for a couple of mornings. Then, gone. I did it again a few days ago: ate a cup of sauerkraut that was well cooked, and the next morning, had the headache, weakness and light-headedness. Now, after a few more days, no more headache.

This headache comes like a spreading wave that feels much like rising bloodpressure, and happens at exactly the time that the literature says the morning cortisone dump from the adrenals usually comes which is why I have related it to that. It actually feels like something has been released in my body and spreads from some lower body location up into my brain.

So I'm suspecting that the solution to this is somewhere in the HPA axis and the interrelationship between the adrenals and carb vs fat metabolism. If a person is never able to get fully into fat metabolism with the attendant work to encourage the proliferation of wild mtDNA, they might go through this endlessly. So it obviously needs some study. We need to find if there are any studies on diabetes and ketogenic diets.

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've also mentioned the weird headaches I was getting during the switch-over period. I've done some more testing and it definitely comes with the adrenal dump schedule and has something to do with carb/fat switching. After I had eaten carbs for a few days (not many, below 50 g for sure), and then went back to keto, the headaches came again for a couple of mornings. Then, gone. I did it again a few days ago: ate a cup of sauerkraut that was well cooked, and the next morning, had the headache, weakness and light-headedness. Now, after a few more days, no more headache.

This headache comes like a spreading wave that feels much like rising bloodpressure, and happens at exactly the time that the literature says the morning cortisone dump from the adrenals usually comes which is why I have related it to that. It actually feels like something has been released in my body and spreads from some lower body location up into my brain.

I had the same as you describe from eating some almond bread (made from coconut flour/ground almonds/eggs/bacon fat) with a couple tablespoons of almond butter. Headache in the morn and very blah feeling that took hours to dissipate. Apparently the carb threshold is pretty sharp.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...This headache comes like a spreading wave that feels much like rising bloodpressure, and happens at exactly the time that the literature says the morning cortisone dump from the adrenals usually comes which is why I have related it to that. It actually feels like something has been released in my body and spreads from some lower body location up into my brain...

I think your headache symptoms are different from what I have been experiencing. Mine are mild and easily ignored. I am seeing an association now between the headaches and constipation, a connection that has been there as far back as I can remember. I tend to have a bout of constipation sometime after going (near) zero carb. This time it came well after I dropped my carb intake, and the headaches didn't start until the constipation did. I am going to stick it out and see what happens.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So I'm suspecting that the solution to this is somewhere in the HPA axis and the interrelationship between the adrenals and carb vs fat metabolism.

I was thinking about it since I recently read a blog post about these issues. Problem is, they were trying to address them within the context of a paleo diet. Here is the relevant post and obviously the timing is different, but it could still apply: different people have cortisol imbalances according to their own personal problems and physiology. Also, in The Mood Cure, it is explained how you can measure your cortisol levels and depending when they are at its peak or low, you'll need to have a supplement like DLPA earlier in the morning or in the early afternoon. Typically you can recognize your imbalance from your symptoms. Some wake up during the night, others have depression in the morning that will subside only in the afternoon. I have observed this pattern in myself when I will be in low mojo throughout the daytime and in the late afternoon, my cortisol levels pump up and I'll feel like I'm able to do anything.

Anyway, here is the post:

_http://primaldocs.com/opinion/wake-up-at-3-a-m-and-cant-fall-back-asleep-consider-low-blood-sugar/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PrimalDocs+%28Primal+Docs%29

Wake up at 3 a.m. and can’t fall back asleep?
Consider low blood sugar

Do you consistently wake up around 3 a.m. and can’t fall back asleep? Although the reasons for sleep problems can be complex, waking up too early is often a symptom of hypoglycemia, or low blood sugar, and can be remedied through dietary changes and nutritional therapy.
Why you wake up at 3 a.m.

The brain is highly active at night, transforming short-term memory into long-term memory and carrying out repair and regeneration, and it depends on a steady supply of energy to do these tasks. When you sleep at night your body goes into a fasting state. In order not to deprive the brain of the food it needs for energy, the body compensates by gradually raising cortisol, an adrenal hormone. Cortisol stimulates the body to release or create glucose to supply the brain with energy during the night-long fast.

Chronic low blood sugar, however, throws a kink in this process. People with hypoglycemia tend to have difficulty making the right amount of cortisol at the right times of the day or night. They also have blood sugar levels that spike and then crash throughout the day. If they go too long without eating they experience lightheadedness, irritability, shakiness, a spacey feeling, and other symptoms that signify the brain is not getting enough glucose.

In these cases, not only does blood sugar drop too low during the night, but the adrenal glands don’t produce enough cortisol to keep the brain fueled. In response, the body sounds the emergency alarm by releasing “fight-or-flight” hormones. These stress hormones raise blood sugar back to a safer level. Unfortunately, they also raise stress, which can cause anxiety or panic in the middle of the night. Hence the waking up at 3 a.m. and not being able to fall back asleep.
How to fall asleep if you wake up at 3 a.m.

A quick fix for waking up at 3 a.m. can be as simple as eating a small amount of protein, with perhaps some fat [that is, definitely with some fat in it] thrown in—a spoonful of nut butter, a little bit of meat, or a hard-boiled egg. For some people this raises blood sugar to a healthier level and sustains it so they can fall back asleep. It’s best not to eat something sweet or starchy (however tempting to your hungry brain) because this will just cause blood sugar to spike and crash again.
Daytime tips to avoid waking up at 3 a.m.

Although a 3 a.m. snack may help you fall back asleep, it’s better to prevent that anxious awakening in the first place. If you wake up regularly at 3 a.m. you may suffer from chronic low blood sugar and need dietary therapy. Symptoms include:

Sugar cravings
Irritability, light-headedness, dizziness, or brain fog if meals are missed
Lack of appetite or nausea in the morning
The need for caffeine for energy
Eating to relieve fatigue
Energy crashes in the afternoon

A diet that stabilizes daytime blood sugar levels will have you sleeping better. This requires that you:

Never skip breakfast and eat a breakfast lower in carbohydrates. If you have chronic low blood sugar you may have lost the ability to feel hunger and you need to eat in the morning and throughout the day (even if you don’t feel like it).
Eat frequently enough so blood sugar does not crash.
Ditch the sweets and starchy foods and adopt a lower-carbohydrate diet. People with low blood sugar symptoms typically eat too many sweets and starchy foods (breads, pasta, rice, potatoes, etc.) and also frequently skip meals. Go for foods lower on the glycemic index and eat enough protein and healthy fats to sustain your energy.

A variety of nutritional compounds can further support your blood sugar handling and stress hormone functions so you sleep better. Ask my office how we can help.

So it is within the context of a paleo diet. I would think that on a keto diet, it is aiding the transition process, especially if one has adrenal fatigue that would prevent lows on cortisol be it at 3 am or at mid-morning or mid-afternoon and so forth.

Gawan, perhaps some hydrocortisone early in the morning will help as adrenal support? Check out the info about it here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,488.msg384379.html#new

I'll see if I saved the relevant info about HPA and cortisol levels from the Mood Cure in my files. It really made a lot of sense and made me realize why I always had more energy in the late afternoon. My adrenals were just getting warmed up until then.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I don't know if this is important, but I had some blood work done in my early twenties. For the previous four years I had been living on the most horrible food you can imagine - pizza, souvlaki, KFC, burgers, you name it - and I drank beer all the time, in large quantities. When the doctor gave me the results he said that I am one of those people that will live to 120 years old, due to my metabolism - my levels were perfect. I found that pretty odd considering what I was putting in my body every day. I only got a real meal when I went home for Christmas. It just didn't make sense.

It is my experience that the average doctor never learns to look at his or her patient. They do learn to look at lab tests which might say absolutely nothing of significance at all. I've met doctors who would look at lab tests and then proceed to tell their patients how she or he is in perfect health. While I, looking at the very same person, couldn't help but notice how she or he will look like a pale zombie or someone who seemed to be almost screaming from the top of his lungs how she or he could not bare its atrocious health anymore. And that is the way it is.

Mind your doctor when it comes to mechanical stuff. You mind your health, keep up the research and experimenting and sharing

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Here are some relevant notes from the Mood Cure:

Cortisol is required for converting T4 to T3 so if it's not available because your adrenal glands have become too depleted to produce it, your thyroid function also suffers.

If you need energy in the morning, 1 or 2 DLPA capsules first thing in the morning and in the mid-morning. If you need an endorphin boost in the afternoon, for example if you are a 3pm chocolate nibbler, then DPA at that time.

[...]

Testing cortisol

Most people have been exhausted by too much stress. Their cortisol levels in the morning, at noon, and in the late afternoon are on the low side. But their bedtime levels may still be surprisingly high. Even if they're in the normal range bedtime, if these levels seem to be higher than the levels earlier in the day, they may keep rising in the night and wake them up at some point. Then “phosphorylated serine” (Seriphos, not the same as phosphatidyl serine), taken before dinner (6 hours before bedtime) should get you to sleep. Take it again 6h before you would typically wake up in the night or early morning. Seriphos encourages your pituitary gland to stop sending the order for more cortisol. After a month you shouldn't need more. Do not take Seriphos for more than three months total. Take a break for at least a week after each month's use.

If your early morning cortisol levels are high, they can wake you up too early, but don't use seriphos until you find out why. Usually it is a chronic yeast or parasite infection, or bacterial. Sometimes though, you need a bedtime snack to keep your blood sugar from dropping in the night, triggering an inopportune cortisol release.

Adrenal exhausted by stress coping often make insufficient sex hormones, which can lead to sleep disturbance. This is typically a factor for women with menopausal and premenopausal sleep problems.

[...]

You may need a bedtime snack if your blood sugar is dropping at night and triggering a bedtime cortisol surge that keeps you awake. Or you may need to use phosphorylated serine (seriphos) which is a combination of phosphorous and calcium with the amino acid serine. It reduces ACTH (pituitary) messages that order your adrenals to release emergency amounts of cortisol. Pregnant and lactating women can't use it.

If cortisol is high in the morning, test for parasites, which tend to become more active at night, stimulating the adrenals to kick up your cortisol levels just when the should be dropping at the end of the day. Don't use seriphos, you'll need cortisol to get rid of parasites.

[...]

Prescription cortisol: to keep cortisol output at 23 to 40mg per ml. If someone tested 8, he is given 20mg, if high demands like in flu, then 40mg.of Cortef (hydrocortisone). Dr. Jeffries suggests microdoses of 2.5 to 5mg of cortef, two to four times per day. [I synthesized Dr. Jeffries protocol in the Adrenal Fatigue thread here]

I think it might be worth trying a physiological dose of cortisol (hydrocortisone) early in the morning to see if the symptoms subside. Another thing that works for adrenal support is vitamin C.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This might account for certain symptoms during the transition into a ketogenic metabolism

Endocrine regulation of neurotransmitter transporters.

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10584970

Figlewicz DP.
Source

Department of Psychology, University of Washington, Seattle 98195, USA. latte@u.washington.edu
Abstract

Aminergic signalling in the CNS is terminated by clearance of neurotransmitters from the synapse via high affinity transporter molecules in the presynaptic membrane. Relatively recent sequence identification of these molecules has now permitted the initiation of studies of regulation of transporter function at the cellular and systems levels. In vitro studies provide evidence that the transporters for dopamine, serotonin, and gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) may be substrates for regulation by protein kinase C and protein kinase A signalling. Changes in energy balance and metabolic status, such as starvation, result in major shifts in hormonal output. It is now recognized that metabolic hormones such as insulin or the adrenal steroids can have significant acute and chronic effects on several aspects of CNS function. Data from this laboratory and others now provide evidence that insulin and adrenal and gonadal steroid hormones may regulate the synthesis and activity of the transporters. Future studies should permit elucidation of the cellular basis for endocrine regulation of neurotransmitter clearance, and thus, the role of endocrines in the maintenance of normal CNS aminergic signalling. The potential relevance of transporter regulation for the ketogenic diet is discussed.

Not that we are doing starvation, but it might feel that way to the body when there is a transition of fuel from carbs to fatty acids. Let's see what the paper says. It is from 1999, so a lot of what happens to brain chemistry has already been covered with the papers early in this thread. Still, it might give a few clues as to what to expect during transition. If a person has adrenal fatigue and hence low cortisol levels, then, that person will suffer if more cortisol is needed during transition to make up for the lack of glucose and up until the full arrival of ketone bodies.

The metabolic profile observed following 3 days of the ketogenic diet in adults (Langfort et al., 1996) includes an approximately 50% decrease of plasma insulin levels and significant elevations of both basal and stress-induced cortisol levels. These changes might be of sufficient magnitude to impact on CNS functions such as transporter activity (see Fig. 1). In children, who have lower fat stores and metabolic reserves than adults, these changes in plasma insulin and cortisol might be more rapid and greater in magnitude. Further, during the initial fasting period, thyroid hormone secretion would be predicted to decrease (although plasma thyroid hormone levels might be buffered by circulating reserves associated with binding globulins). It is possible that the diet itself (high fat:low carbohydrate) may impact upon hormonal function in the CNS.

I attached an image, but it basically says that norepinephrine levels decrease and dopamine levels increase. High cortisol levels are meant to increase dopamine levels. So, if cortisol levels are down due to adrenal fatigue and chronic stress, dopamine levels would remain low. This is when a pinch of DLPA or hydrocortisone might work the best.

 

[Gawan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for your effort Psyche and thank you Laura.

Gawan, perhaps some hydrocortisone early in the morning will help as adrenal support? Check out the info about it here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,488.msg384379.html#new

Unfortunately hormones are not possible to get in Germany without a prescription (but see further below) only something similar like this would be available:

_http://www.remedia.at/homeopathy/Cortisonum/a340.html

[...] Another thing that works for adrenal support is vitamin C.

Vitamin C at least clears the head a bit and was also something I tried to take.

I attached an image, but it basically says that norepinephrine levels decrease and dopamine levels increase. High cortisol levels are meant to increase dopamine levels. So, if cortisol levels are down due to adrenal fatigue and chronic stress, dopamine levels would remain low. This is when a pinch of DLPA or hydrocortisone might work the best.

I'm lucky, cause I still have a sealed DLPA (500mg) supplement at home :D.

So I'm suspecting that the solution to this is somewhere in the HPA axis and the interrelationship between the adrenals and carb vs fat metabolism.

I was thinking about it since I recently read a blog post about these issues. Problem is, they were trying to address them within the context of a paleo diet. Here is the relevant post and obviously the timing is different, but it could still apply: different people have cortisol imbalances according to their own personal problems and physiology. Also, in The Mood Cure, it is explained how you can measure your cortisol levels and depending when they are at its peak or low, you'll need to have a supplement like DLPA earlier in the morning or in the early afternoon. Typically you can recognize your imbalance from your symptoms. Some wake up during the night, others have depression in the morning that will subside only in the afternoon. I have observed this pattern in myself when I will be in low mojo throughout the daytime and in the late afternoon, my cortisol levels pump up and I'll feel like I'm able to do anything.

The problem I have then, everything gets stockpiled in the evening (what I couldn't do during the day) and I don't know where to start or stop working on things, so it is then always a bit frustrating. Hopefully DLPA works out though.

 

[mocachapeau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It is my experience that the average doctor never learns to look at his or her patient. They do learn to look at lab tests which might say absolutely nothing of significance at all. I've met doctors who would look at lab tests and then proceed to tell their patients how she or he is in perfect health. While I, looking at the very same person, couldn't help but notice how she or he will look like a pale zombie or someone who seemed to be almost screaming from the top of his lungs how she or he could not bare its atrocious health anymore. And that is the way it is.

Mind your doctor when it comes to mechanical stuff. You mind your health, keep up the research and experimenting and sharing

Good advice. Thanks Psyche.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Unfortunately hormones are not possible to get in Germany without a prescription (but see further below) only something similar like this would be available:

_http://www.remedia.at/homeopathy/Cortisonum/a340.html

That is homeopathic, might be worth a try. People get hydrocortisone over the web at fludan.com, where they sell it in powder form. In that case, a scale that can weight in grams is needed. For instance, a cheap gem stone scale.

Who knows, DLPA first thing in the morning might do it. At least you have it and can experiment.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Other people here with thyroid-like symptoms might want to look at the website. It's awfully wordy, but the essential part about how to measure your temperature can be found here:
_http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/how-are-body-temperatures-measured

I'm aware of that website, I also have extremely low body temperature first thing in the AM. I've been going to a hormone doc who after saliva testing, prescribed compounded estrogen (estridol?) cream 2x/day and a progesterone pill before bed. I really didn't notice much change so she added testosterone cream after about a month. After about a week of that I began to get vertigo and became lightheaded when I'd stand up. Consulted with the doc, and went off the hormones for about a month or so, the vertigo and lightheadedness went away after a few days. But the hot flashes came back. She started me on a lower dose of the compounded estrogen and kept the progesterone the same. That worked for about six weeks up until last week when I started getting vertigo and lightheaded upon standing again. So I stopped taking them for about three days, and it went away, but the hot flashes came back again. The doc has me taking an adrenal supplement 2/day, 5 mg DHEA and 50 mg pregnenolone in the AM, among the others I take.

Not sure what's going on, still have little energy and feel like I'm slogging through quicksand when i climb stairs. Am slowly transitioning to low/no carb, am gluten, dairy and sugar free for now. Still can't seem to digest meat properly no matter how many enzymes I take, it leave me feeling sluggish and heavy. Supplements seem to go in one end and out the other without any obvious benefit. Waking up every two hours at night also.

The hormone doc put me on Armour thyroid for a brief time, when the vertigo started, I quit that and won't take it again.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The doc has me taking an adrenal supplement 2/day, 5 mg DHEA and 50 mg pregnenolone in the AM, among the others I take.

Not sure what's going on, still have little energy and feel like I'm slogging through quicksand when i climb stairs. Am slowly transitioning to low/no carb, am gluten, dairy and sugar free for now. Still can't seem to digest meat properly no matter how many enzymes I take, it leave me feeling sluggish and heavy. Supplements seem to go in one end and out the other without any obvious benefit. Waking up every two hours at night also.

The hormone doc put me on Armour thyroid for a brief time, when the vertigo started, I quit that and won't take it again.

Mrs. Peel, perhaps you can ask your doc to put you in physiological doses of cortisol to support your adrenals? The protocol is this one: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,488.msg384379.html#msg384379

DHEA can be a problem for those who have excess testosterone, or testosterone has ill effects when supplemented.

If digestive enzymes don't seem to help, I would add apple cider vinegar to the meat and HCl. This later one is the one that usually makes the most difference for digesting meat, since a life-time of carb metabolism has rendered the stomach's acidity "useless". It is betaine hydrochloride supplementation.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Mrs. Peel, perhaps you can ask your doc to put you in physiological doses of cortisol to support your adrenals? The protocol is this one: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,488.msg384379.html#msg384379

DHEA can be a problem for those who have excess testosterone, or testosterone has ill effects when supplemented.

If digestive enzymes don't seem to help, I would add apple cider vinegar to the meat and HCl. This later one is the one that usually makes the most difference for digesting meat, since a life-time of carb metabolism has rendered the stomach's acidity "useless". It is betaine hydrochloride supplementation.

I'd already seen that and have printed out the protocol, will take it to my next doc appt which isn't until Feb. though. I may e-mail her earlier. I do have HCl capsules I take. I wonder if coffee would help with the acidity?

I definitely do not have excess testosterone.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Other people here with thyroid-like symptoms might want to look at the website. It's awfully wordy, but the essential part about how to measure your temperature can be found here:
_http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/how-are-body-temperatures-measured

I'm aware of that website, I also have extremely low body temperature first thing in the AM. I've been going to a hormone doc who after saliva testing, prescribed compounded estrogen (estridol?) cream 2x/day and a progesterone pill before bed. I really didn't notice much change so she added testosterone cream after about a month. After about a week of that I began to get vertigo and became lightheaded when I'd stand up. Consulted with the doc, and went off the hormones for about a month or so, the vertigo and lightheadedness went away after a few days. But the hot flashes came back. She started me on a lower dose of the compounded estrogen and kept the progesterone the same. That worked for about six weeks up until last week when I started getting vertigo and lightheaded upon standing again. So I stopped taking them for about three days, and it went away, but the hot flashes came back again. The doc has me taking an adrenal supplement 2/day, 5 mg DHEA and 50 mg pregnenolone in the AM, among the others I take.

Not sure what's going on, still have little energy and feel like I'm slogging through quicksand when i climb stairs. Am slowly transitioning to low/no carb, am gluten, dairy and sugar free for now. Still can't seem to digest meat properly no matter how many enzymes I take, it leave me feeling sluggish and heavy. Supplements seem to go in one end and out the other without any obvious benefit. Waking up every two hours at night also.

The hormone doc put me on Armour thyroid for a brief time, when the vertigo started, I quit that and won't take it again.

Low temperature is a possible indicator of thyroid problems, but is not conclusive by itself. It sounds like you have quite a bit going on. Armour is mentioned in Detoxification and Healing, I believe, but I don't think you would want to take it if your T4 were normal. I saw messages elsewhere from people that had taken Armour when only their T3 was low and that weren't happy with the results.

It can be frustrating when you keep trying things and nothing seems to work. I don't know what to do but try something else. That is what I keep doing.