Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Ollie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks Darek, interestingly enough, yesterday was day 3 of daily resistance training and I decided it was too much. Would someone be kind enough to clarify my thinking here though, in light of that article. I had picked up from this thread that most people agree that 2 or 3 days per week of RT is about right. That is what I had been doing and am planning to go back to. Have I missed anything? This article clearly suggests that anything more than once a week is too much. Thanks.

That article is a post from Mark's Daily Apple blog. A lot of them do hard core stuff, even though Mark himself suggests something more gentle in his book. If I remember correctly, Mark suggests a once a week RT, but for the other days there are other exercise suggestions including walking, sprinting and so forth.

The walking, cycling and so forth ('having fun') is 'gentle ' - relaxed - so is still in recovery mode. Sprinting is again a 20 min exercise, done once a fortnight (or a longer period). I put in another day of resistance training that works, primarily, on a different set of muscles, although there is a slight overlap - and it is felt. :)

I think that the general consensus is what you already described. Exercise no more than 20 minutes and focus on brief bouts of significant anaerobic exertion, interspersed with brief periods of recovery at a slower pace that will allow you to return to resting heart rate. It can be done using kettle-bells, weights, or elastic bands and so forth. Following these brief bouts of significant anaerobic exertion, critical building and rebuilding mechanisms takes place over the next day or two. So after 20 minutes of brief sprouts of exertion plus recovery time in between, allow at least 2 days of down time to recover and build-up your strength and muscles. Drink your bone broth within an hour before or after exercising, as it will help you preserve muscle mass.

RT activates proliferation of new cells in the muscle as a consequence of fiber injury, and the level of mutations in mtDNA in these new cells is lower than the one of already present muscle fiber cells. Hence, when there is fusion between the new and the old, there is a shift towards the new low level in mutation in mtDNA and mitophaghy of the old dysfunctional ones. This leads to mitochondrial healing. According to the papers we've read, typically 12 to 14 weeks are needed to see these results even though some have noticed positive results with the first few sessions. Others have noticed results in their muscle mass with the ketogenic diet alone.

Speaking of RT, I've fell back on my routine. It's about time I get serious on it again!

The emphasis is on short, sharp sessions, which also add to your endurance.

 

[furryfrog]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It took me about 3 days to read through this thread, but I am now eating my first bowl of bone broth. Eliminating coffee and cream will be tough. I will try to slowly ease my way into the KD from the low carb diet I have been on for the last 5 months.

 

[lwu02eb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for all your responses. That works well for me as I regularly get out and about doing gentle exercises, so back to the original method. I think I will incorporate more emphasis on lowering weights into my routine though.

 

[WIN 52]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have just spent a few days with a friend who grew up as a child, in Mongolia during the 60's. He said they were rationed as to how much animal protein they could get weekly but there was no limit to how much lard and bones they could get from the food distribution center. He said in the winter they lived on Lard and bone broth soup. He always felt sorry for himself because of this diet.

Both of his parents are short, like you would think of when you think of Chinese. My friend is over 6' tall. I always asked him how come he is so tall when both of his parents were short. We would just laugh about that, but this time, with the information I have now, we were able to come to some sensible conclusions regarding this discussion....FWIW

 

[mocachapeau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi everyone,
I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the "Life Without Bread" thread, so if it needs to be moved, so be it.

I had my blood tests done in October and the doctor had me back to see her yesterday. It turned out to be because my cholesterol level was too high. I understand that mainstream medicine has a different view of cholesterol than we do, considering we have eliminated all things inflammatory, to the best of our abilities, but I wanted to check with the forum about these levels.

The item on the list that she pointed to, and this list is in French, is the abbreviation LDL which she referred to as "bad" cholesterol. It has a value of 4.13 mmol/L. The norm for it is marked as 0.00 to 3.40. The item marked cholesterol was at 5.84, the norm being 3.00 to 5.20. It was also a little high but she wasn't worried about that. It was this bad cholesterol that concerned her.

My urine (URÉE) was a little high, 9.6, the norm being between 2.5 and 8.0. She said that was a little concentrated but that might be due to the fact that I had been fasting for over twelve hours before they took the samples. She wasn't worried about it.

Other than that, she said all my levels were perfect - magnesium, potassium, calcium, everything.

Anyway, she wants me to go in for more blood tests in April to see if the LDL is still high, and if it is she said she will then talk to me about prescribing medication that I will have to take for the rest of my life. I imagine that would be statin drugs, and I obviously want to avoid that.

So I would like to know if this bad cholesterol level is a concern for someone on this diet, and if so, what are the possible causes, so I can adjust and bring it down.

I will get into the details of my diet if necessary, but at the moment I have to make a run to the butcher so I will be back in an hour or so - I haven't had breakfast yet and I'm out of bacon!

Thank you.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...
So I would like to know if this bad cholesterol level is a concern for someone on this diet, and if so, what are the possible causes, so I can adjust and bring it down.
...

This has been discussed extensively in this topic and/or LWB, as well as in the recommended (i.e. "required") reading. The LDL-C test -- which is a calculation, not an actual measurement -- often doesn't even yield repeatable results, and can be very inaccurate if the assumptions on which the calculation is based don't apply to you. If anything, elevated cholesterol is expected if you are losing weight on a low-carb diet.

For my thyroid issues I was blessed with finding an MD that is wise to the statin scam. Any chance you could find one? It makes medical "encounters" so much easier. Otherwise you need to educate yourself about these tests so that you at least know as much as the doctor does, which often isn't hard to do.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I will get into the details of my diet if necessary, but at the moment I have to make a run to the butcher so I will be back in an hour or so - I haven't had breakfast yet and I'm out of bacon!

Thank you.

Your cholesterol levels are perfect!

Perhaps you can enter some keywords into the search function like LDL, lab and people like dugdeep, Gertrudes, megan, nickeblue and myself who had posted a lot of info in this respect.

I would rather be more curious about inflammatory markers such as CPR (C-reactive protein and its ultrasensible part) or glycation markers such as HbA1c. Also, triglycerides and HDL are more interesting. If the former is high and the later one low, then you are definitely towards the inflammatory path. Usually with this diet, is the other way around, triglycerides are low and HDL is high.

 

[mocachapeau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This has been discussed extensively in this topic and/or LWB, as well as in the recommended (i.e. "required") reading. The LDL-C test -- which is a calculation, not an actual measurement -- often doesn't even yield repeatable results, and can be very inaccurate if the assumptions on which the calculation is based don't apply to you. If anything, elevated cholesterol is expected if you are losing weight on a low-carb diet.

It WAS my understanding, from what I have read, that this was nothing to be concerned about but I wanted to check with you all, just in case. Admittedly, I have fallen behind in the reading on this subject in the past months and I know I have to get up to speed. I also have a tendency to forget some of the details in the mass of info that is provided. Like in this case, it had been so long since I had read the part about the LDL test and it didn't come into play until now. Going back into these threads to find info can be a long process. I got back to the reading a few weeks ago so I have been drinking bone broth for over a week now. I have also started the intermittent fasting, two days a week.

I'll keep reading!

Your cholesterol levels are perfect!

Perhaps you can enter some keywords into the search function like LDL, lab and people like dugdeep, Gertrudes, megan, nickeblue and myself who had posted a lot of info in this respect.

I would rather be more curious about inflammatory markers such as CPR (C-reactive protein and its ultrasensible part) or glycation markers such as HbA1c. Also, triglycerides and HDL are more interesting. If the former is high and the later one low, then you are definitely towards the inflammatory path. Usually with this diet, is the other way around, triglycerides are low and HDL is high.

Well, I don't see anything on here that says CPR, C-reactive protein or HbA1c. Maybe I have to ask for that to be included in the tests, or maybe the terms are different in French. But it says that triglycerides are 0.39, normal being between 0.00 and 2.00, and the HDL is at 1.53, normal being between 0.8 and 1.8. So the triglycerides look to be low and the HDL looks about normal. Or should the HDL be higher because I'm on this diet?

Well it's great to hear that my cholesterol levels are "perfect!". As I wrote above, I didn't think it was anything to worry about but I wanted to check with people who know more about it than my doctor.

Thank you both for your help.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Well, I don't see anything on here that says CPR, C-reactive protein or HbA1c. Maybe I have to ask for that to be included in the tests, or maybe the terms are different in French. But it says that triglycerides are 0.39, normal being between 0.00 and 2.00, and the HDL is at 1.53, normal being between 0.8 and 1.8. So the triglycerides look to be low and the HDL looks about normal. Or should the HDL be higher because I'm on this diet?

In that case, your cholesterol levels are above perfect!

Yes, CPR and HbA1c are not made routinely. You have to ask them specifically. If you are having blood work done next year, just remember to drink enough water and do them without having any sort of flu. CPR is an inflammatory marker and can go up with any kind of inflammation including an infectious type.

HbA1c is glycated hemoglobin. Ideally it should be less than 5, a level which seems only possible on a ketogenic diet.

 

[mocachapeau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

In that case, your cholesterol levels are above perfect!

Yes, CPR and HbA1c are not made routinely. You have to ask them specifically. If you are having blood work done next year, just remember to drink enough water and do them without having any sort of flu. CPR is an inflammatory marker and can go up with any kind of inflammation including an infectious type.

WELL then! I guess I must be doing something right. I sometimes wonder if I've misunderstood something, or if I'm doing something wrong, but it looks like I'm on the right track. So I guess there isn't anything I need to be adjusting, it's just steady as she goes and don't make any silly slips or exceptions. I'll see if I can have the CPR and HbA1c added to the tests I'll be getting in April.

I don't know if this is important, but I had some blood work done in my early twenties. For the previous four years I had been living on the most horrible food you can imagine - pizza, souvlaki, KFC, burgers, you name it - and I drank beer all the time, in large quantities. When the doctor gave me the results he said that I am one of those people that will live to 120 years old, due to my metabolism - my levels were perfect. I found that pretty odd considering what I was putting in my body every day. I only got a real meal when I went home for Christmas. It just didn't make sense.

And I haven't really followed the instructions here about easing into things, I just change everything instantly. Although, I always did it one thing at a time. I did get a couple of headaches when I was switching to ketosis, but other than that I can't recall having had any noticeable reactions to any of it.

I'm certainly not complaining. I'm just wondering what it means about me.

 

[Gawan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

A minor update and any ideas would be appreciated.

Every morning about 1.5 - 3 hours after I'm awake I have kind of a light-headedness, burning eyes, cold hands, brain fog and weak legs (or overal a weak feeling) which lasts about 1-2 hrs. I tried different things now:

* I didn't have at one day breakfast to see if it something in the food and did some light sport exercises: no success
* I did eat normal breakfast and did then resistance exercise, plus a cold shower: no success
* did some light exercises before standing up

I drink a lot and about 500-700ml in the morning (salted water, tea, bone broth)

My main assumption is, that it could be something with blood pressure since I tend to be low. In the evening I have then warm hands.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

How long has it been going on?

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The item on the list that she pointed to, and this list is in French, is the abbreviation LDL which she referred to as "bad" cholesterol. It has a value of 4.13 mmol/L. The norm for it is marked as 0.00 to 3.40. The item marked cholesterol was at 5.84, the norm being 3.00 to 5.20. It was also a little high but she wasn't worried about that. It was this bad cholesterol that concerned her.

One of the best sources for cholesterol related information is Peter Attia's Eating Academy (_http://eatingacademy.com/category/cholesterol-2).

You will find that the facts about LDL are:
- The risk factor for atherogenesis is LDL particle numbers (LDL-P)
- LDL-C (the amount of cholesterol in LDL) is not a risk factor per se
- LDL-C and LDL-P are often not concordant (meaning that the higher the one the higher the other too), or in other words LDL-C doesn't reflect LDL-P
- If you want to have a clearer idea about the status of your LDL, you either need to measure LDL-P or ApoB (apoprotein)

Very extensive information on his site, but as he says, if you read that, you will know more about cholesterol than 99% of doctors (cardiologists included) ...

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This has been discussed extensively in this topic and/or LWB, as well as in the recommended (i.e. "required") reading. The LDL-C test -- which is a calculation, not an actual measurement -- often doesn't even yield repeatable results, and can be very inaccurate if the assumptions on which the calculation is based don't apply to you. If anything, elevated cholesterol is expected if you are losing weight on a low-carb diet.

It WAS my understanding, from what I have read, that this was nothing to be concerned about but I wanted to check with you all, just in case. Admittedly, I have fallen behind in the reading on this subject in the past months and I know I have to get up to speed. I also have a tendency to forget some of the details in the mass of info that is provided. Like in this case, it had been so long since I had read the part about the LDL test and it didn't come into play until now. Going back into these threads to find info can be a long process. I got back to the reading a few weeks ago so I have been drinking bone broth for over a week now. I have also started the intermittent fasting, two days a week.

I'll keep reading!

...

In the LWB thread we were posting lots of messages but also reading stacks of books. If you only read the messages and not the books, you may miss a lot of important information and you won't have an easy way to refer back to things later.

It seems to me as though Primal Body, Primal Mind would be the single most useful book in the collection. Chapter 8 discusses cholesterol basics. Chapter 8 of Deep Nutrition provides a more extensive take on it, and The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living goes into even greater technical detail. You can find the latest developments in Jimmy Moore's "Ask The Low Carbohydrate Experts" series, the Ancestral Health Symposium videos, and other conference videos. The books Life Without Bread and Why We Get Fat provide important background about how cholesterol information came to be skewed.

The difference between the sources is that PBPM (Nora Gedgaudas) comes closer to what we are doing here than the others. The other sources are good, but they offer more opportunities to go astray, I would say. This isn't a problem when you know your own way around, but it can be confusing at first.

LWB is the only book among the above that I have in print form rather than on Kindle, and because of that I don't refer to it very much. The others can be searched much more easily, and on an actual Kindle device (as opposed to a reader on a computer or smartphone) it is possible to search through all the loaded books at once.

 

[mocachapeau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I actually own printed copies of PBPM and The Art and Science of Low Carb Living. I'm only part way through PBPM, and I haven't gotten to the other one yet. I'll get back to PBPM as soon as I finish The Noah Syndrome.

Thanks for the help Megan.

One of the best sources for cholesterol related information is Peter Attia's Eating Academy (_http://eatingacademy.com/category/cholesterol-2).

I've bookmarked the link, too. Thanks nicklebleu.